Syrian mass graves show the worst abuses 'since the Nazis,' top prosecutor says
(www.nbcnews.com)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 18 Dec 18:31
https://lemmy.world/post/23285399
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 18 Dec 18:31
https://lemmy.world/post/23285399
Summary
Mass graves uncovered in Syria after Bashar al-Assad’s overthrow reveal evidence of systematic atrocities, with over 100,000 people tortured and killed in what a top war crimes prosecutor described as the worst abuses “since the Nazis.”
Assad’s regime operated a “machinery of death,” involving mass disappearances, torture, and secret burials.
Rebel forces freed thousands of political prisoners, but many remain missing.
International efforts aim to document war crimes, though Assad, now in Russia, is unlikely to face trial.
#world
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Really? Nothing else since WWII has been this bad? I can think of three off the top of my head! Syria’s neighbor is doing a holocaust right now. It’s like they’re pretending that nothing bad has happened since the Nazis were defeated.
The Russians never stopped doing such things. Before, during and after WW2.
Yeah, from what I’ve gathered, Putin has enslaved and trafficked his own people (and in some cases killed and grave robbed them) for money and blackmail. Remember the monkey torture video rings? Well, it seems like Putin was doing that with his own people along with prisoners and trafficked people from other countries, to make every kind of video you could think of, to sell to influential people worldwide to gain blackmail on them. He also likely had irl experiences that people like Trump engaged in.
In Michael Wolff’s Fire&Fury podcast and book, he asserts Russia has pictures of Trump with topless minors. Katie Johnson also said he raped her and another girl when they were 13 and 12, and hit them afterwards for not performing good enough. This is absolutely a man who would engage in disturbing behavior overseas, and Epstein himself called Trump depraved and said there was nothing he couldn’t do. You can listen to Epstein himself say it in the podcast.
There’s also the Active Measures documentary with John McCain and Hilary Clinton. And Unger’s book American Kompromat.
So yeah, it’s likely the snuff videos from Russia you’d see on 4chan and Instagram were state sponsored media meant to get money and blackmail. It’s likely the extreme Russian torture videos were state sponsored. It’s likely that Tulsi, Elon (who admitted in court this year he has a kink roleplay account on X of his toddler XAE, who he took to meet Erdogan and keeps kidnapped from his mom), JDolphin Vance, RFK Jr, Tucker “a demon scratched me in bed not my dogs and no Putin isnt blackmailing me to say this as a wink towards what im being blackmailed for” Carlson, and all the rest, have SERIOUS SERIOUS blackmail on them.
All at the expense of Russian people and enslaved people.
There are 100.000 bodies in a single mass grave. And that is just one out of five. That’s kinda in a league of its own.
Gaza is a mass grave at this point.
It is, but not this big yet.
This is bigger than Gaza, not like the IDF is not trying to catch up.
Estimates are far higher than the official death toll - it’s hard to count bodies buried under the rubble.
Stop. Let the people of Syria be recognized for the horrors they lived through. Wtf is wrong with you?
I will not allow Palestinians to be erased! Or any of the other mass murders of over 100,000 people! This disrespects every atrocity that has happened since the end of WWII, by saying those ones either aren’t real or don’t count.
so because theres already a genocide no other genocides can exist? Yes, the Palestina genocide is bad, but that doesn’t mean posting about any other genocide is hate towards Palestinians.
You don’t get to say “the worst since WWII” when there were other genocides that compared or were worse since WWII. It’s erasing history.
“Worst” is what I’m taking issue with.
Okay, thanks for sharing the source of your feelings. Your actions are still to hijack any and everything to be a soapbox. If there’s any single one thing that can take this space, it’s another genocide in the middle east. Like dude, come on…
Hijacking the statement of “the worst since the Nazis” to say “literally no wtf” 🙄
It seems in the end, the best at killing Arabs is other Arabs.
Cool racism dood
The Europeans colonizing Palestine sure are killing a lot of people. Also there were the million people who died in the Iraq war.
But those don’t count, I guess.
Did I say they don’t count?
He literally didn’t say that. You’re mad over a quote that doesn’t exist. He literally said “some of the worst.” I have seen video footage on BlueSky of the prisoners as they were executed and it is quite disturbing. “Like a machine,” to kill them en masse is pretty apropos of what I saw.
Do you think that’s okay? Do you think that’s NOT some of the worst mass murder to happen since WW2? If you think it’s an acceptable amount of murder, why?
You mean the country that is claiming Syrian sovereign space like the Golan Heights for their illegal settlements since the 90s?
And currently stealing even more land!
Well, now Syria is weakened from the revolution. That is the best time to go and steal some land!
How “whatabout” that.
Stop trying to shove this news under the carpet with your “I know worse but I won’t tell you!!1!”
I’m trying to point out that history didn’t start and end in WWII, and pointing to something just as bad happening right now.
Oh, I didn’t see that you’re an “ml”
Whatever works in your fantasy world and makes you happy 🤷🏼♀️
I expect nothing less from reddit.world 🙄
Do you really think 100,000 people haven’t been killed in any since conflict since WWII? Cuz that’s the implication.
I agree with your point but I think the Palestinian genocide is a bad example. Imo better examples from the top of my mind: the Rwandan and Cambodian genocides likely were far worse both in absolute numbers and as a % of the population, and the policies of Maoist China got many more people killed.
Man, Mao’s policies got so many people killed that “only” 3-4m people died of famine.
He’s got an incredible kill count.
Stalin all ready had a high kill count before the Nazis started their extermination camps.
Mao’s policies weren’t deliberate, the bird thing was an attempt to help his people. Idk why this is constantly brought up when it is no where in the same league as someone deliberately trying to kill people. It just reeks of stupid western propaganda.
The Palestinian genocide is happening right now, is my point. We don’t have to crawl through history to find atrocities.
Indonesia after the CIA coup is another good example, or Iraq when we killed over a million people. This stuff is way more recent than WWII.
And the Palestinian genocide and your other examples aren’t “worse” in any metric (yet). The use and misrepresentation of those examples just tells us that you’re a tankie who engages in whataboutism and spreads untruths to build a narrative.
Bad year for tankies
Between 500,000 to one million were killed in Indonesia and Iraq. The fuck you mean they aren’t worse?
And the Palestinian genocide is at least within the same order of magnitude.
Why are you erasing them?
Better a “tankie” than a faschie 😉
Yes, nothing.
No one here is claiming what Israel is doing isn’t horrible (hell, you’re the only one bringing it up). But, this is worse. Wild how there can be more than one bad thing and one being worse doesn’t make the other one not bad, isn’t it?
This isn’t worse! The official death toll is a massive undercount, the real death toll is probably in the same order of magnitude.
Don’t argue with a .ml user when they move the goalposts to be “America bad” without any context. It’s a losing battle.
It’s going to take some time (and digging) to find out.
However… events that unfolded in Cambodia will almost certainly have exceeded what is going to be discovered in Syria.
Most likely the same can be said about things that happened in Indonesia.
Events that continue to happen in North Korea may possibly exceed - once the place collapses and access becomes possible - which may take a century - what Bashar and his father managed to organize.
Israel hasn’t killed over 100,000 yet. Gaza is a lot smaller than Syria or Europe.
The official toll isn’t over 100,000 (can’t count people under the rubble) but estimates put it over 100,000 i.e. same order of magnitude. Gaza being smaller just makes these estimates even more horrifying.
But also, not just talking about Gaza. Lots of other atrocities have lead to mass death on this scale and larger.
The Cambodian Genocide
You must not know what the definition of “worst” means.
I must not! I’m pretty sure “worst since the Nazis” means " nothing between now and then was worse". As far as I was aware, worst means worse than everything else.
Worse than Indonesia. Cambodia. Algeria. Iraq. Korea. Vietnam. Yugoslavia. Evidently no atrocities have happened since WWII! 🙄
That’s different from saying you think worse things happened.
Might want to brush up on your reading comprehension, buddy.
If something is “the worst” then nothing worse happened, ergo, they’re pretending that all the other worse things didn’t happen. Evidently, the million people that were killed in Iraq and Indonesia just aren’t as important.
Yes. That’s different from “nothing bad has happened.”
Well if they get to overstate then why can’t I? I’m just reflecting their own tone.
Don’t stoop to their level.
You’re angry about a headline that abbreviates the actual story.
The very first paragraph of the article:
The article agrees with you. It’s only the headline that doesn’t.
This kind of anger and engagement at headlines is exactly what the media thrives off of. Don’t let them win by doing just that.
They win by getting you to click on the article. 🙄
They don’t get to smuggle lies into headlines and then clarify in the article. They should be held accountable for that kind of click bait.
So contact NBC with your concerns. Arguing with people who can’t change it just makes people who might otherwise agree with you frustrated with your point of view.
I don’t think we need to play Topp Trumps Genocide Edition. Can we just agree that it’s horrific what Assad (and by extension, Putin) have been doing in Syria?
No, we need to acknowledge that Assad is not the worst since WWII, otherwise we erase all the other atrocities that have happened.
Other genocides have happened. Worse genocides have happened. History didn’t start and end in WWII.
You do realise that saying “… it’s not the worst that’s happened” is also a form of erasure.
…but of course, you do.
After thinking about it, I’ve realized why they always use Nazis as the measuring stick: it’s the last event of this type that the majority of Americans are familiar with.
Which I think says quite a bit about the education level of our populace
I feel bad for people like you sometimes. I promise you the republicans are not going to create mass graves with up to 500,000 dead
I would much rather be surrounded by the people you’re surrounded by than keep hearing those exact promises out of the people I’m surrounded by.
I think we can all agree (at least I hope) that any amount of genocide is bad
Robert Kennedy wants to bring back Polio.
The Trump presidency will be littered with corpses.
Trump killed hundreds of thousands in his last presidency. He might break it this time if you combine both
700k died because of Trump’s COVID policies. Including the bleach and ivermectin thing. It was so prevalent for him to kill his followers, a subreddit was made called the Herman Cain Award.
Now, Trump wants to traffick/“deport” 25mil Latinos, majority Native American, Christian, and Catholic group. A real attack on Christianity and I haven’t heard a single Christian care. And he wanted to be able to traffick them out of the Bahamas to countries they didn’t originate from, until the Bahamas said no recently.
Are americans just not able to not bring up US politics in articles literally unrelated in any way? I’m pretty sure massacres, concentration camps, kidnappings, child soldiers, rapes, and ethnic cleansings are a little worse than trump’s 4 year term.
All of that, just for wanting freedom and democracy. But it seems you people have a persecution fetish. Kinky.
PS: I don’t support republicans, they are fascists, and i’m not saying that trump’s term will be all fine and dandy, but it doesn’t even compare to this.
Only brown people can be Nazis
No one was saying that?
I’m arab and even everyone that i know agrees the Ba’athists are straight up arab fascists.
So, Arab regimes in Egypt and Jordan are not?
They’re all engaged in human rights violations but Syria wasn’t a US client state so it gets the Hitler treatment.
Lmao, I literally never said that. I hate all the Arab dynasties just as much as Bashar, if not more. and Sisi is a moron.
Quit your whataboutism. Assad is bad. Dictators are bad, no matter if they are pro or anti US.
If they are pro US and kiss Israel’s ass their brutality is swept under the rug or whitewashed.
You’ll never see articles like this for Sisi or King Tomato because the colonial powers are hypocrites. That’s my point.
Sisi and king Abdullah (i assume that is “king tomato”) are morons, but they’re not even as close to the monster that is Assad. also, most westerners probably have a shallow understanding of middle eastern politics, and only knew Assad by name. but after the revolution, the horrors of his regime are finally becoming known globally. This is huge for everyone, especially for Syrians and us Arabs.
Don’t try to sympathize with monsters, dude.
Yeah so Pro US tyrants are “morons” but Assad is the most evil person ever (since Saddam Hussein presumably).
Meanwhile Jolani is a cuddly jihadist who should be integrated into the West at light speed. The facts that he bends the knee to Israel while it is invading and bombing Syria is pure coincidence.
Boy, you must be an Olympic champion at jumping to conclusions.
Sisi is evil and king Abdullah is a moron. there, better? but they haven’t committed crimes against humanity as bad as Bashar. They are tyrants. I’ll give you an example of another Pro-US tyrant who is evil. Mohammed bin Salman. I fucking hate his guts, not as much as Bashar, but i still want him gone. He has terrorized Saudi Arabia and drained our country and allocated it for himself and his megaprojects, and don’t even get me started on his human rights violations.
Literally where did I ever praise Jolani? I didn’t even bring him up. and where did I say that he should be integrated into the west? i don’t live in the west, i don’t care if he is integrated or not. fuck him, he can’t wash away his history with al-qaeda. But even he isn’t as bad as Bashar. that should tell you something about how evil Bashar actually is.
It may be a surprise to you, but have you considered that multiple things can be bad at once?
I sympathize with the message you want to bring across, what they do in Israel could never be the worst since the Nazis because they’re like us, they’re the only dem… I can’t even write that out because it’s such a propaganda lie, but yeah I get that.
On the other hand let me just agree with the other guy that there are just shitty and shittier dictatorships in the Middle East. Some of them are aligned with the US, some with Russia, all of them are corrupt motherfuckers who belong in jail. Arab leaders have collectively betrayed their people and who knows if that region will ever be free of imperialist forces.
Jail would be a mercy for those bastards. Fuck anyone who supports any dictator here.
oh dear
So really really bog standard socialist stuff.
Why didn’t they compare it to Stalin? His worst abuses were after Nazis and it would’ve tracked more anyway because of the political angle and because both Stalin and al-Assad committed crimes on their “own people”.
Bog standard totalitarianism. Not socialism.
Potato, potahto.
There’s plenty of market-oriented or just straight-up elitist totalitarians to go around.
Socialism is when death machine 🤡🤡🤡
Yea, but it’s different because it’s owned by the people collectively 🤡🤡🤡
The Ba’ath Party is as socialist as the nazi party. Hint: not at all.
Genuinely curious, though. Socialism is when the workers own the means of production; How would that cause genocide in your opinion?
What do you mean, “would”?
You implied that socialism kills. How?
Perhaps you meant authoritarianism?
I’m on-side with socialism - but to be fair, most of the real world examples that call/called themselves socialist do have a pretty bad track record of descending into totalitarianism/authoritarianism.
Yup, but those are intentional. That’s how an ML state functions. That’s why Marxism Leninism is a bad idea.
Most of western European governments are democratic socialist for like 50% of the time.
I really hope that there can be some sort of coalition for peace and recovery among the various Syrian forces now that Assad is out of power.
Mmm. We all know how this is going to go.
The “good guys” are all of a sudden going to see the potential to have power over others, and then feel entitled to do whatever they can to maintain and expand that power.
Before long, we have another Assad regime that’s different in name only.
It’s a cultural problem, and greed is the root of it all.
Has the US investigator seen this yet?
‘All the cemeteries are full’: Palestinians buried in a mass grave in Gaza
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/1935a092-c306-48f2-8eca-1c9d297ff96c.jpeg">
Have they been in a prison where they were regularly and systematically tortured, and that for decades, before they ended up in those bags?
Not even a fucking month has passed and people with .ml accounts are already trivialising Assad. Tankies gotta stick to their own, I guess.
I don’t understand this comment but yes the Palestinian in Gaza were in a giant prison, they get restricted access to food, no freedom of movement, and when they try to peacefully leave got shot in the knees by sniper.
And those who were in officially “Israeli” prisons, got raped according and torture.
You missed the industrial-scale torture part. There’s been some instances of torture, yes, but nothing even close to what happened in Syria in matters of both scale and systematics. The IDF, at large, has always been more interested in killing people than pure, unadulterated, sadism.
You’re rightfully enraged about the plight of the Palestinians, now don’t turn around and deny the plight of Syrians by drawing false equivalences. If you want to draw an equivalence for the Syrian situation try North Korea.
Do not give them the satisfaction of being placed in the same category as their celebrity crushes. Assad is nothing like a goofy conspiracy theorist deep in the sheltered West.
Both things can be bad.
They are both bad. But the Assad stuff is highlighted while Gaza is ignored. The selective standards are the problems.
Comparisons to the Holocaust are suddenly possible without anyone saying “no the Holocaust was when people were burned so Gaza is not a Holocaust”. No semantics warriors show up to defend Assad.
Since the Nazis? Cambodian genocide doesn’t even get a look in, eh?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
Finally, a comparison which doesn’t fall flat on its face like much of the rest of this thread. The intensity in Cambodia was extreme, it was under four years and 1.5 to three million killed, tortured, experimented upon, you name it. Even with everything else assumed equal the Assads were way slower at doing things.
Or ISIS, literally in the same UN-recognised borders at the same time.
I’m gonna chalk it up to this guy being a lawyer prosecuting a case.
Hard to say if they Palestinian holocaust when the zionists wont allow people to be recovered from the rubble, use mass graves, and have been clearing rubble and not adding to the body count at all. They are hiding the numbers. Even hiding as much as possible its still about 50k.