Israel's Knesset passes bill rejecting Palestinian statehood
(www.middleeasteye.net)
from Linkerbaan@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 18 Jul 2024 07:05
https://lemmy.world/post/17674583
from Linkerbaan@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 18 Jul 2024 07:05
https://lemmy.world/post/17674583
Israel’s Knesset passed a resolution rejecting the establishment of a Palestinian state on Thursday.
The bill, co-sponsored by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition along with right-wing parties in the opposition, was passed by an overwhelming majority of 68 votes, with only nine MKs voting against it.
Benny Gantz, seen by many leaders in the West as a more moderate figure than Netanyahu, voted in favour of the bill, along with his party.
#world
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Guys why don’t those Palestinians just do a two state solution? Those israelis really want it right?
Nope, one state solution would have to be forced by whichever US president is brave enough.
All of them seem to be puppets of the owner class, so I am not that hopeful on that front.
and that one state? Plasma.
Edit: Prefer it this way: (four)th -> four(th)
Ah, the four(th) state (solution)—no one brings that one up when talking about Palestine-Israel, I wonder why.
China: land grab by claiming the sea and Taiwan is theirs = bad guy
Russia: land grab by invade Ukraine claiming Ukraine is theirs = bad guy
Israel: land grab by invade West Bank and Gaza, saying Palestine shouldn’t exists and claiming both land is theirs
Guys, i might risk getting called antisemite but…i think Israel is the bad guy here?
Russia isn’t claiming Ukraine is theirs.
That’s why, before invading, they formally recognized the independence of Donetsk and Luhansk from Ukraine.
They have since passed a bill annexing those areas, plus more, and even in the official "justification" for the war Russia clearly expects to be able to decide Ukraine's foreign policy
And none of that means Russia is claiming Ukraine.
In fact, by recognizing Luhansk and Donetsk as independent countries, they were explicitly saying that Luhansk and Donetsk were not part of Russia.
It’s not the same situation as Taiwan or Palestine, where China and Israel respectively claim that those territories are theirs and include them on official maps.
Edit: Look at official maps of Russia from Russia. The annexed territories are shown as part of Russia, but the rest of Ukraine isn’t.
Edit 2: You guys, this isn’t a matter of opinion. You’re just misunderstanding the situation. “Territory X belongs to country Y” can depend on who you ask, but “Country Y claims territory X” is a simple fact that is either true or not.
They have annexed huge parts of Ukraine. That’s called a land grab. That they don’t claim all of Ukraine is besides the point.
They passed actual law saying otherwise almost two years ago. You are just making this up.
What, because there's some of Ukraine left afterwards on the condition that it only does what Russia wants it to do?
The initial claim was that it was a land grab, which it absolutely is.
It's only a simple fact if you look at maps and literally nothing else. A vassal state is not really independent, is it?
I am not.
amp.dw.com/en/…/a-60861963
Not only is this article 2 years old, it predates the entire invasion. You cannot possibly think this fact matters in the slightest right now, in the context that Russia parked their army in that territory and said “lol this is actually our land now.”
Yes, that’s what I said.
I said:
Again, the crux of your arguement is “Russia is not claiming Ukraine” and your support for this is actions taken in the past that are no longer relevant as they have been superseded by more recent activity.
You are basically arguing that Germany promised not to invade anyone else if they just got the Sudetenland while being fully aware that the rest of WWII happened. It doesn’t matter in the slightest that Russia totally said they love independent areas when again, their army is parked there and they passed a more recent law saying that territory is theirs. This is just bad faith arguing on behalf of an actor who very much does whatever benefits them at that exact second.
Look, you’ve accused me of lying, you’ve misrepresented what I say, you stubbornly refuse to understand what I’m saying, and you don’t seem to have any understand of the situation you’re passionately arguing about.
I’m just gonna block you.
I’m not the same person who started this and didn’t say the earlier stuff you’re upset about but go off king.
Just gonna block everyone that disagrees with you?
🤡
Go ahead and do me next so you can go back to spouting nonsense with no pushback
I block people who accuse me of lying for no reason.
You: “Russia isn’t claiming Ukraine”
Dmitry Medvedev: “Ukraine is definitely Russia”
Square that away for us then
The private opinion of a Russian official is not the same thing as the official stance of his government.
I guess the Russian army was invading Kyiv to give everyone flowers then back in 2022? Again, they’re only claiming parts of Ukraine right now instead of the whole thing as a part of their information op to make Ukraine look like they’re the party that is unwilling to negotiate. The Russian government might as well be a rug, all they do is lie.
Russia says that the purpose of their operation in Kyiv was to destroy military stockpiles of munitions that were located there, and wasn’t intended to be an occupation.
But even if that’s not true, occupying a place militarily is not the same as claiming legal ownership of it.
So you agree that Russia is not claiming Ukraine.
You’re saying (based on unprovable speculation) that Russia has secret plans to claim Ukraine in the future. I don’t have a crystal ball, so I can’t know if that’s true or not. But even if it is, that’s not the same as saying that Russia currently claims Ukraine.
I’m saying that official positions of the Russian government regularly change and only serve their imperialist ambitions with whatever is convenient in the moment. They clearly have no qualms with annexing territory they previously claimed they would not. When you look at the sum of their actions and rhetoric it is clear that Vladimir Putin’s goal is the restoration of the Russian empire. Seriously, read his speeches and watch what is said on Russian state TV. Julia Davis does a great job over at Russian Media Monitor
What I'm saying you're making up is the intention behind the recognition, not the fact that Russia recognised the breakaway regions. We have seen Russia's actions since the recognitions: invasion and annexation. You don't annex places that you legitimately respect the independence of. That's a blatant contradiction.
I’m not making up anything. And I’m blocking you.
They were boiling the frog by recognizing LPR and DPR prior to annexation, don’t be thick. You can read Putin’s speeches where he clearly states he believes that Ukraine is part of “Russkiy Mir”, not a real country.
Where am I being thick? What do you think I’m not understanding?
I don’t understand your objection to anything I’m saying.
Israel and China have somewhat understandable claims over West Bank/Gaza and Taiwan, which is why those are complicated situations. Russia makes no such claim over Ukraine.
The only reason they’re not claiming the whole of Ukraine at the moment is because they clearly lack the capability to take it and it benefits their info ops to portray Ukraine as the party that is unwilling to negotiate. It’s vranyo, a lie that nobody is supposed to actually believe but is used because it is convenient.
just give up and go back to hexbear or grad.
I don’t know what those are.
Russia has ALWAYS claimed that Ukraine is not a country and that it’s part of Russia. That’s what this whole war is all about.
…lse.ac.uk/…/there-is-no-ukraine-fact-checking-th…
on 26 February, Surkov stated that “there is no Ukraine. There is Ukrainian-ness. That is, a specific disorder of the mind. An astonishing enthusiasm for ethnography, driven to the extreme.” Surkov went on to claim that Ukraine is “a muddle instead of a state. […] But there is no nation. There is only a brochure, ‘The Self-Styled Ukraine’, but there is no Ukraine.”
Vladimir Putin reportedly claimed that “Ukraine is not even a state! What is Ukraine? A part of its territory is [in] Eastern Europe, but a[nother] part, a considerable one, was a gift from us!”
Putin declared that Russians and Ukrainians “are one people. Kiev is the mother of Russian cities. Ancient Rus’ is our common source and we cannot live without each other.”
Lies repeated by other Russian puppets:
US President Donald Trump reportedly exclaimed that Ukraine “wasn’t a ‘real country,’ that it had always been a part of Russia”.
And Zaporizhzhia and Kherson?
They were annexed by Russia from Ukraine (a country that Russia does not claim).
Yet Putin published an opinion that Ukraine is a modern fiction and should return to Russia. It isn’t official… just the geopolitical opinion of the dictator.
T A N K I E
D E T E C T E D
Is a Tankie someone who believes facts?
There are many facts that tankies usually believe, and importantly many of those typically believed by them are known to be false.
I believe you’re never going to own a house.
Am I wrong about that?
Are you having a stroke?
Considering both of you flagged each other as bots, I think I can confirm that neither of you are bots.
I mean, it might be the new meta for bots to accuse others of being bots, right? Maybe we’re both bots.
It could be. I have a captcha for you to solve:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6cf7c1a8-88fb-490e-a54b-b2eaeab0a339.png">
LMAO
<img alt="" src="https://suppo.fi/pictrs/image/918644b0-daba-4d31-af75-3f067e57c57c.jpeg">
Removed, see the new Civility rules.
Quick question: Is “tankie” a pejorative?
I’m squishy on it. In general, talking about tankies in general is fine, using it to talk about other users is not.
Cool. Thanks.
Ukrainians are whiteish and Taiwan manufactures chips for the US. Palestinians are brown and Palestine has no exports, so the US doesn’t give a fuck about them
Who the actual fuck thinks Gantz is a moderate? The dude is more extreme than Ben-Gvir.
Anyone can seem like a moderate when they’re standing next to someone whose a bigger extremist than themselves.
Itamar Ben-Gvir and Benjamin Gantz are different people.
I don’t think I implied they weren’t? Just that extremist vs moderate is a somewhat fluid concept based on your yardstick. Someone we consider an extremist can be seen as a moderate if the alternative is so much worse.
Using the US as an example, people see people like Romney or Ryan as a moderate now a days just because the modern republican party has gone absolutely bugfuck.
Then I probably misunderstood you, apologies. I’m struggling to understand how Gantz could appear moderate compared to Gvir
No worries, I don’t know enough about the politics of either past finding them repugnant and inhumane so I probably came off weird.
They’re both piles of shit, I’ve just never bothered to figure out which one is bigger than the other.
Moderate as in “moderate rebels” in Syria.
They hadn’t already done that years ago?
Israel was pretending that it was the Palestinians that refused to compromise for a 2 state solution. With all the heaps of carefully crafted Hasbara and liberals selling people on israeli white nationalism, nobody took the time to figure out the real story.
Now that everyone knows that israel is the aggressor they have no valid defense left to not recognize a Palestinian state. Especially in the West Bank.
So israel now goes mask off and reveals their very obvious initial position: they want to expand their Lebensraum and exterminate all Palestinians. And israel hopes that if they scream “self defense” hard enough while bribing politicians everyone will keep supporting their Genocide.
And should you happen to be a supporter of human rights and international law they will scream “antisemitism” hard enough until you lose your job.
Sometimes i really fucking hate being Jewish.
Don’t let israel guilt trip you into thinking their white ethnostate is part of Judaism. You are not responsible for anything they do.
I’m part jewish myself. Israel doesn’t represent me and never has, nor has it represented my ancestors. I see a clear difference between Judaism and Israel.
why, did you vote for any of those guys?
I’m not an Israeli citizen. But I tell you, it’s a drag being Jewish. There’s the legit antisemitism, which I experienced primarily in my youth, and then the guilt by association because Israel is an asshole country. Oh yeah, then there’s the insufferable idiots who will call me an antisemite because I don’t believe in oppressing Palestinians.
It’s just kind of proper fucked being Jewish. I guess we get some cool shit though, like space lasers, controlling world politics, etc.
From what you say, it sounds like the main reason antisemitism still exists is zionism :/
PS: nice username, captain Morad :D
COLONEL Morad, please.
Yeah that genuinely sounds like shit. Sorry bro
If it helps - although I’m sure you’re not hearing anything new here - plenty of people understand that Israel doesn’t represent the Jewish people. Much as Israel likes to pretend they do, and much as politicians agree because it suits their geopolitical goals, it’s not true.
Edit: I know for a fact this isnt new info because two other people said the same thing in this thread. Oh well, I’ll just add my voice to theirs.
I’m an atheist but find religions fascinating as a concept. From what I understand about Judaism,
Is the essential Jewish experience that has been passed down to you by your ancestors for millenia, so at least you have that going for you?
No one blames you. I certainly don’t.
Thank you for speaking up and your words do matter. I learned the horrors of what’s going on years ago from Jewish and Israeli authors such as Ilan Pappe.
How will Blinken spin this?
He wil smirk really hard and say something about Hamas bad.
Probably the ol “that’s Israel’s internal matter that has nothing to do with us”
Can we stop sending military aid to the obviously evil country yet?
I’m shocked! Shocked I tell you!