Mexican influencer Valeria Marquez killed on TikTok livestream
(www.bbc.com)
from floofloof@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 15 May 06:05
https://lemmy.ca/post/44083847
from floofloof@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 15 May 06:05
https://lemmy.ca/post/44083847
#world
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What’s the difference between femicide and domestic violence? Serious question
Domestic violence is within a family, especially spouses, femicide is "when women and girls are killed because of their gender", to quote the article.
And how do you know that it had anything to do with their gender? Asking because I see many people call random murders, or rather anything that was not a multi-kill, femicides.
Why so much fighting over a word for women being killed of misogyny? Odd thing to be defensive about. It feels like some people here think even giving women a word for being killed by misogynists is giving them too much.
Because blaming every murder of a woman on misogyny is just as stupid as not acknowledging it at all. That’s my point.
And who suggested blaming every murder of a woman on misogyny?
No one here, afaik. But it’s a common practice I see under a lot of posts, and I wanted to ask why.
Sex-selective infanticide, as seen under a one-child policy regime, would be a more clear-cut example of femicide.
DV isn’t gender-specific (loosely 25% male victims, 75% female, but obviously that’s up and down on country)
Femicide is gender-specific with an estimated 0% male victims.
Not gender-specific, but there’s a definite bias there.
I guess the argument is that you don’t want to discount the minority of victims just because of them being a minority.
It also helps frame conversations as abusers vs victims instead of men vs women, because the latter currently leaves male victims without a voice.
I used to live upstairs from a couple with DV issues.
The victim was the 6’+ 200lb+ man in his 20s. The offender was a smaller woman. I felt so sorry for that guy. I’m sure people were reluctant to take him seriously, but she was unhinged when angry. Throwing pots and pans at him, pulling knives, etc…
Domestic violence is violence that occurs between people who have a domestic relationship- family members, roommates, romantic/sexual partners, etc. It may or may not rise to the level of murder.
Femicide is killing a woman due to her gender, and there may or may not be a domestic relationship between the killer and the victim.
There’s going to be a lot of overlap and grey areas between the two. Many femicides are domestics, but not all, and not all domestics result in femicide
To provide some examples
1. Sort of your “classic” domestic abuse situation- man beats his wife. Domestic abuse, not a femicide because he’s not killing her.
1.5 He beats her to death. Domestic, and this may ruffle some feathers, but I’m going to say only probably a femicide. I’m sure I’m going to end up saying something like this a lot in this comment and expand on it as I go, but you kind of have to examine the killers thoughts and motivations, and they may not always be totally clear. In probably the vast majority of these kinds of situations you’d probably find there’s sort of an underlying attitude of “I’m the man, she’s the woman, so I can do whatever I want to her” to one degree or another which would make it a pretty cut-and-dry femicide, but I think there’s also cases where he might be just as violent and abusive to other people regardless of gender given the opportunity, which muddies the waters and makes it a little harder to call a femicide, if he was just as likely to kill a man under similar circumstances I don’t know if it necessarily warrants slapping the “femicide” label on it, but it sure as hell looks like one on the surface. I suspect that most places collecting and studying data on this kind of thing would just go ahead and call it a femicide and I’m not going to blame them for that, I don’t think there’s any feasible way to really examine each individual incident with the kind of attention you’d need to properly sort it out, and even if you could, in the end given the sorts of cultural imbalances between men and women that exist, you’d probably end up with the conclusion that the basically all of them do in fact qualify as femicide to some degree and the rest are just kind of a rounding error.
2. Religious extremists kill a woman they see out on the street because (take your pick, she wasn’t dressed “appropriately,” didn’t have a male guardian with her, she dared to have a job or education, etc.) That’s a femicide, but not a domestic because there was no relationship between them.
As an aside, there was a conscious decision on my part in that example to use the gender-neutral “they” in that example. You probably pictured male murderers, I did as well, but on further reflection I think it would be perfectly fair to still call it a femicide even if the perpetrators were women. The victim is still being targeted because she’s a woman who’s not behaving the way they think a woman should.
3. Woman kills her husband. Domestic, murder, not a femicide because the victim was a man.
4. (Here’s where shit really starts getting murky.) Man kills his wife because she was having an affair with another man. Again it’s a domestic, it’s a murder, and its maybe/probably a femicide. It’s a bit harder to nail down the motivation here. There could be a lot of underlying psychological, cultural, interpersonal, etc. baggage here. Did the man kill her just because she was cheating, or does he have, for example, some sort of underlying expectations that because she’s the female partner she’s supposed to be loyal and subservient to him. I don’t know that there’s an easy way to untangle that, and many men may not even really be consciously aware of those sorts of biases they have in the back of their minds. If hypothetically the man way gay/bit/pan/etc. would he have murdered a male partner in the same sort of situation?
5. Wife kills her husband’s mistress. Murder. Kind of a domestic, maybe stretching it a bit because unless he was cheating on her with her sister or something there’s not really a direct domestic relationship between the two women, but there is still an indirect link between them through the husband. Femicide? Again, maybe, for pretty much the same reasons as #4, lots of potential baggage there that would need to be unpacked.
5½. Man kills his cheating wife AND/OR wife’s mistress ~(wife was cheating on him with another woman.)~ Murder✓ Domestic? See above. Femicide? Maybe, again see above, but there’s also potentially an added aspect of “she cheated on me with another woman?” That, in his mind, adds extra insult to just the fact that she was cheat
Is there a word for killing someone because he’s a man? Not trying to be “that guy” but I literally only just heard the word femicide and am curious.
I guess you would call it andricide?
Like when Israel kills Palestinian kids when they are boys but not when they are girls in similar situations because they are “likely combatants”.
Or the thing that happened in Paraguay where the genocide was very much focused on men because they were men.
TBH we should stop all violence, and if this categorisation helps prevention, go for it.
Viricide or androcide; viricide is more etymologically consistent, but I expect would be less common (if either term were common at all, which they aren’t)
Viricide sounds like a topical cream for an STD
That would be virucide :P
From a quick search, viricide seems to mean “kills viruses” (as an alternate spelling of virucide) or killing one’s husband.
I would probably use the term androcide.
‘Alternate spelling’ is a fun way to say misspelling /s
Viricide is more consistent because vir and femina are both Latin (as is -cide/-cidium, but that’s less important), while andro is Greek. The Greek-rooted synonym for femicide would be gynaecide.
But yeah, androcide would be more likely to be used, because it avoids the superficial similarity to virus; kind of like how Latin and Greek numerical prefixes often get mixed together to avoid the prefix ‘sex-’
Sexagon sounds funny
Sexagon sounds like an MMA-themed porno
Mixing Greek and Latin word fragments is so common that I don’t think one more is going to make a difference.
If you think of it, it’s for the sad reason that men are kind of expected to be killed, by war, conflict, work, disease, etc. In a way the “default” for murder became related to how men most often die. This is still sexism, however.
Even the term manslaughter. Though “man” is often meant to generically mean “human”, e.g. mankind or since the dawn of man.
I find it obscene that a word needs to have a definition this long. Why can’t we continue using “homocide?” Why does a woman that was killed for being a woman need a special word for it?
Everything else has a special word for it, why not this?
Everything doesn’t have a special word, that’s my point.
It’s how language works. We make words that are descriptive so that we don’t need to explain everything at length every time.
When you need a multi-paragraph explanation as to differentiate femicide from domestic abuse; your point invalidates.
Sounds like the perfect reason to have different words. Who would want to type that out every time? I’m sure someone could spend several paragraphs describing the difference between fur and hair, or stucco vs plaster.
If you don’t care about the difference between two words, then those words probably weren’t invented for you. Someone else who works with that nuance on a daily basis probably really likes that they can sum things up briefly.
You don’t need a multi-paragraph explanation. Femicide is the murder of a woman by a man, and domestic abuse is violence against a domestic partner or family member.
One situation can apply to both terms, but neither implies the other.
It’s a legal term, and when you’re talking about potentially taking away a person’s freedom (or possibly their life), you need these words to have very very specific definitions.
We aren’t the ones who needed a multi-paragraph explanation to differentiate between domestic abuse and femicide; the difference between the two is rather large and made rather obvious by one of the words being gendered while the other is not
Because some murders aren’t just about the victim - they intimidate others in the same “class”. It’s a type of terrorism.
In the US we have a modifier of “hate crime” that serves a similar purpose.
I guess it’s just me but I feel like “misogynist homicide” is more clear than femicide. That massive paragraph breaking it down between domestic violence and something specifically called “femicide” is completely unnecessary. As I write this on a computer and keyboard at this point, I’m realizing it wants to spell check “femicide” because it’s also not in the spell-check dictionary.
I’m going to re-affirm, this is dumb.
I mean, welcome to the world. Sometimes concepts are complicated and require more than a simple dictionary-style definition to fully understand. Otherwise there’d be no use for classes and textbooks and you could learn everything you need to know from a dictionary.
And I did provide some pretty short definitions right at the beginning, the rest is examples and me sort of musing on the terms for further clarification for those who need/want it.
Elsewhere in the comments I think you used the term “misogynist homicide.” If for some reason that term sits better with you, by all means use it, I’d say they’re synonymous, and all of my explanation applies just as much to that term. Language evolves and new words are coined every day, if we can come up with a neat one-word name for something as opposed to clunky 2+ word phrases I’m generally a fan of that.
Also, I think a critical reading of my comment might show you that I also have some misgivings about how we use the term, because like I repeatedly said, it can be damn hard to properly sort out the killers motivations. I think some people are too fast to slap the label on any instance where a woman is killed, especially by a man, and while it’s probably likely that the label is appropriate in the majority of those cases, I don’t think it’s necessarily a useful term to use unless you can clearly explain the misogynistic motivations behind it.
Ever hear the word “misogyny”?
Because creating words for specific ideas is central to language
Around here they’ve started calling all cases of men killing their wife a feminicide and it bothers me as those men (in most cases) wouldn’t have killed any woman, just this one in particular because it was their wife and had they been gay they would have killed their husband instead, not any man…
Feminicide is a killing motivated by gender. Sure, the man might not have killed any woman, just his wife… But would he have killed his brother?
The idea that a wife is a belonging and that abusing or even killing her over a domestic dispute is deeply rooted in traditional gender values, so killing your wife is got a gigantic gender-related motivation behind it.
But again, and you’re saying it yourself, it’s because she was his wife, he wouldn’t have killed a woman colleague or his sister and there’s a term for that, it’s just not as well known.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uxoricide
If a woman kills her husband we call it a mariticide, not a masculinicide…
But killing a woman with gender as an underlying factor does not mean you’re going to go around killing every woman.
This is about what factors constitute the motivation for the crime, not necessarily an obsessed serial killer.
For instance, many murders are racislly motivated - but it doesn’t mean the killer was killing every black person that crossed their path. A famous case in the US had a guy kill a black man, in front of his family, over a misunderstanding and confrontation - he killed the guy because of the confrontation but he only got to the point of killing because he was black, if this were a white person, we would have de-escalated the situation.
Do we have a historical, multi-generational heritage of women dominating the familiar structure and seeing husbands as property?
Not all victims of domestic violence are women. Sometimes it men and children
Around a third of all domestic violence deaths are people who tried to step in and stop the abuse. For instance, an apartment neighbor hearing the abuse through the shared wall, and walking over to ask if she’s okay. Most of these Good Samaritan deaths are men.
Because if they’re interrupted, abusers tend to see it as a personal attack. And we already know they get violent when insulted. Interacting with domestic abusers is extremely dangerous, regardless of your demographics.
Not only that, but very often the one being abused will turn on the good Samaritan also… It’s a fucked up dynamic.
No suspect+no motive=femicide? Did I miss something?
Unless there’s a gang relations or a spurned partner, the only explanation for this sort of thing is a rabid fan which kinda aligns with femicide.
There is/was this netflix serie “You” not that bad but it kind of portrays the dark side of cyberstalking.
Is there a light side to stalking of any kind?
Not really no. But in the moment meant when it leads to followers roaming your front door and stuff. I wish innocent fans understand the implications of a stranger waiting for you to wake up.
They’re often far from innocent. I know someone, an honest, well-known person in a controversial field, who has been cyber-stalked by several conspiracy whackjobs who came to his door and made death threats. He had to hire 24/7 security.
Back when I was a Reddit moderator, somebody posted literal child pornography on our casual conversation subreddit. It got caught by AutoModerator, but I gave him the final ban, and Reddit’s admins purged the account soon after.
Guess who stalked me for three years.
Posting kid porn and coming to my house, guess who is getting self defensed. Should have put that dog down it clearly has rabies.
At least someone cares about you?
That behaviour is not affection, and they care about the celebrity like a possession.
At least some is paying attention to you?
lightstalking.us
It makes you feel special uwu
If there are no clues pointing to another motive, it’s the most likely explanation, thus they are investigating it as such. It’s not a confirmed femicide yet, though.
I through the suspect was her crazy boyfriend who is high rank in a gang. No idea if new information has come around
When there’s a murder in Mexico, the first guess is always cartels
And the second guess is cartels without motive, just havin fun
Meanwhile, murder in America, and my first guess is elementary school.
Murder in Transylvania, my first guess is vampires
Or sometimes sweet transvestites
Murder on the dance floor…but you better not kill the groove…
that doesn’t add up. did they mean 00:30 GMT?
Probably did -6 instead of +6
Why did you pick this post to talk like this? You don’t even usually talk like this…
Because I can relate and I just lost a friend and the way she went is so screwed up.
But remember, against the narcos “hugs, not bullets”, welcome to the México Lemmy keeps saying I lie about.
Maybe get off your computer chair once in a while and actually go outside and visit these places you know absolutely nothing about. I just came back from Honduras for a few months. And guess what I’m still alive and well and it was one of the best, humbling trips I’ve ever taken and I’m hugely grateful for the experience. See that? You actually learn something when you travel, as opposed to being a toxic know-nothing online. If no one else already told you today, go fuck yourself and have a nice day.
I’m stuggling to believe you were “one of those poor people” in Mexico and your dad was kidnapped in Hondouras.
And taken to Hondouras?
I’m sorry what?
Unsafe doesn’t mean 100 incidence of death it means greater than tolerance levels of risk.
Visited Mexico 3 times, starting in 3rd grade. Only time I felt unsafe was going through a Federales checkpoint and an officer walked up to the car with a submachine gun.
You’re damn right about the poverty, but for the most part, people are nice, they just want to be, and let others be.
Some place not being safe is defined as greater than n rate of insert list of bad things per capita.
For most folks 100 in 100k murdered annually is pretty unsafe whereas 5 is pretty safe.
But even if it were 1000 in 100k the other 99k still living could argue its not that bad!
You basically can’t go to almost any population center without what the civilized world considers unacceptable risk whereas I can stroll through the “bad” part of my city at 2AM and mostly risk seeing gross people doing drugs.
Mexico is objectively unsafe. Some parts of states are too like st Louis
And why don’t you go to Culiacan next time?
I saw a blurred video of the killing and even with the blur it’s brutal. Looks like she takes one to the chest and as she reacts she gets hit again in the head at least once
Link?
I found it here: odysee.com/…/Video-en-camara-lenta-del-asesinato-…
damn
She said on social media some days or weeks before that if anything happens to her or her family, her ex-bf was to blame. And I think he is cartel. At least this is the info I read on other comments on different platforms.
First statement was said by a lot of different comments. Second was only from one other comment I saw.
You guys think this is the start of some “pop-culture disgust” killing spree? Like in God Bless America [2011]
In the article they say it’s likely a femicide, gender based violence. Misogyny is hatred of women - especially when they are not obedient or leave a man. So nothing really new.
What is new is social media and neoliberal control for profit, and a complete lack of accountability and moderation to stem the tide of hate speech.
Just watched the vid on insta. She looks right at the man not recognizing him so I assume it’s a hit. Two shots I can see, one in the chest, one in the head, very professional.
She definitely didn’t deserve this