from breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 11 Apr 2024 18:38
https://lemmy.ca/post/19184277
Senator Tim Kaine, a former vice-presidential nominee and leading foreign policy voice in the Democratic party, has said Joe Biden now understands that Benjamin Netanyahu “played” him during the early months of the war in Gaza but “that ain’t going to happen any more”.
In an interview with the Guardian on Tuesday, Kaine accused the prime minister of making Israel “dramatically less safe” and hurting its longstanding relationship with the US, and said the US president had come to realise the limits of his influence.
The Democratic senator for Virginia is best known nationally as Hillary Clinton’s running mate in the 2016 presidential election, a race they lost to Republicans Donald Trump and Mike Pence. The Biden ally is a member of the Senate foreign relations and armed services committees.
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“Anyway, here’s those fighter jets you asked for”
Doesn’t seem to bother him all that much: Biden vows ‘ironclad’ US commitment to Israel amid fears of Iran attack
Pretty clear saber rattling at Iran to make it known that any Iranian reaction to Israel’s illegal strike would be met with American force.
Looks to me like hes trying to get Iran to not take the Israeli bait to create a larger conflict.
Basically, using threats to prevent a larger regional war, no matter who started it, which is just good overall foriegn policy.
Considering most vs Iran war games have grim outcomes for the USA, I don’t see that’s going to be effective.
Are you seriously insinuating that the US is not a horrifically dominant military power compared to Iran? That US military threats are not taken seriously by despotic powers? Especially to non nuclear powers like Iran?
I never said war would be easy for Iran. I’m saying to would be incredibly difficult for the US. Likely the most difficult war since Vietnam. This is a wildly known fact.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002
And again in 2012 brookings.edu/…/simulated-war-between-u-s-iran-ha…
Iran also probably still holds a grudge for the US (and indirectly Israel) backing Saddam during the Iraq-Iran war, I’m sure that they won’t think too too long about entering a war if the US’ saber rattling turns into action.
You realize youre linking 12 and 22 year old “war games,” right? That military tech and tactics have not been static for decades?
One of those war games is 7 years older than smartphones and wasent even specifically about Iran. The other is a few dozen unamed “experts” who played fancy Risk at each other at a private think tank 12 years ago?
Those are your sources that the modern US military is not a threat to Iran?
Clearly you know better than the military analysts of the US army themselves. I’m so sorry I shouldn’t have doubted an expert like you.
You’re delusional.
A 22 yr old war game is your only auditable source for the comparable military power of 2 nation states, and youre sure it’s still accurate today?
A wargame that took place right after Y2K, when people were talking about this new thing called the “information superhighway,” before social media existed, when the flip phone was king and a smart phone wasn’t even an idea, and yet its your gospel about modern military might.
Sure thing.
It’s convenient that you ignored that the experience was repeated ten years later with similar results isn’t it.
thehill.com/…/4339670-despite-washingtons-confide…
Up to you to provide sources that contradict this. So far all you have is hot air.
Hey look at that, an actual source that isn’t 10 or 20 years old. Good job mate. It’s written by the Cato institute, a wildly biased right wing think tank funded by the Koch brothers, but it seems to have good numbers.
Yeah, Iran looks like a real motherfucker to conquer, but we sure as shit can do immense amounts of damage without that being the goal. That’s enough to give Iran pause, which is why Biden’s threats and rhetoric is effective.
I’m well aware that Cato is a right wing think tank… Maybe when the war hawks tell you that you would occure incredible losses in a war and you shouldn’t do it, it’s time to to listen to them.
Again, you have provided not a single source to counter my claims. Nothing but hot air. Cope harder, but I sure as shit won’t get drafted.
Im not disagreeing with the claims that iran would be a difficult nation to conquer. I’m glad you properly sourced it eventually.
What I’m disagreeing with is your supposition that Biden’s threats to Iran are mundane or ignorable. They are not, hence the effectiveness of them as a kudgel to prevent a wider war in the middle east.
So tell me now, how did that saver rattling rather than de-escalation work out for you?
EDIT: Since yall want to play at “I told you so!”, looks like the US/Israel shot down almost all the drones with zero deaths and Iran has stated that they have concluded the attack.
So again, good saber rattling.
Slightly older comment:
Well first off, for good etiquette you could link the revelant news.
Secondly, this doesnt really change anything about my assessment. Biden was saber rattling and it either failed, or it worked to some degree, keeping the response at “dozens of drones” level instead of full on warfare.
So, to answer your rhetorical question : from poor to good, as expected.
I wonder if it is in the US’ best interests being dragged on a war very much like the one waged on Afghanistan… a costly affair that ended up worsening the problem in the region
Sorry bro, hypersonic missiles from Iran will blow the shit out of Hamptons estates, regardless of how much money we pour into the military industrial complex. We need to be de-escalating in the region, and stop Israel from further provocations.
Also, threatening nuclear action after Israel was clearly the embassy bombing aggressor? You aren’t serious.
He still is…
But he used to too
RiP
One of the greatest. RiP
Can he get played if it’s the outcome he wants/is trying for?
This is a key comment, right here.
I am grateful that Kaine’s comments show a slow pivot taking place in Washington. But we should all be clear that Democrats in congress like Kaine are engaged in a PR exercise to cover the fact that all that has changed is their recognition that they aren’t going to be allowed to participate in genocide.
Really, Tim? We gave them all those bombs to convince them NOT to flatten Gaza?
To quote Principal Skinner: “I was only in there to get directions on how to get away from there!”
Biden wasn’t played, he was on board. And he still is. But at least Kaine is workshopping excuses for him to jump off the train he was helping drive.
*played him" - what bullshit. They played themselves.
Politicians unthinkinly ran to Israel side and gave them a blank cheque of support saying they had a “right to defend themselves”. It rapidly became a standard rebuttal to any criticism of the west’s approach to Israel and its gaza war.
Biden and other politicians know who Netanyahu is, they’ve dealt with him for many years. They didn’t care - they got swept up in a right wing tide of outrage and pro war sentiment. They did it to benefit themselves believing this was some kind of 9-11 moment or Ukraine moment.
Instead they’ve got all in on a crazy war against a terrorist organisation where the only losers are the innocent by standards stuck in Gaza. Add to that right wing rhetoric in Israel around long term plans to remove Palestinians from the gaza strip and begin Jewish settlements. This is at best a callous war where the immense collateral damage on palistinians is totally disregarded and at worst looking more and more like ethnic cleansing.
And worst of all, in the US American politicians seem united on supporting an ethnic war in the middle east but divided on repelling a dictators invasion of a European country.
This isn’t about Netanyahu. This is about the extremely weak leadership of Joe Biden, weak leaders across Europe and the rest of the world and the broken state of the US political system.