Putin to conscript 160,000 more Russians for war with Ukraine
(www.politico.eu)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 31 Mar 23:20
https://lemmy.world/post/27632782
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 31 Mar 23:20
https://lemmy.world/post/27632782
Summary
Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered 160,000 more Russians aged 18–30 be drafted from April 1 to July 15, amid U.S.-brokered ceasefire talks.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned the Kremlin is preparing a major offensive in Sumy, Kharkiv, and Zaporizhzhia, accusing Russia of stalling negotiations to gain territorial leverage.
Over 100,000 Russian soldiers are confirmed dead. Ukraine reported 46,000 dead and 380,000 wounded.
#world
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Where’s Trump and his “young, brave men”? You know, that speech. The one aimed at Zelensky stating he should just stop the war and stop being desperate by conscripting more people for the defense effort?
Eh, must have left it in the same place he left the “Zelensky is a dictator” comment after he was asked if Putin was also a dictator.
I mean, it’s a fucking pointless, blood drenched meat grinder on both fronts. Like some kind of WW1 reenactment with the safeties turned off.
You don’t need to be a fan of either side to want this nightmare to end. But since the people in charge have no real skin in the game (because they’re sociopaths who are more than happy to see these populations sacrificed to their vainglory) the killing simply will not end.
If that simplistic and dismissive view is your take on the whole Ukraine defending their sovereignty against a foreign invader…
Then Doktor Jidanbo prescribes you with less Fox News consumption - as 9/10 dentists say it clouds judgement.
Stopping the ‘meat grinder’ is actually very simple. All that needs to happen is for Russia to stop attacking Ukraine and leave Ukrainian soil. All Russia needs to do is wanting to actually end it, which is the part all the greedy vultures wanting to carve up Ukraine conveniently leave out.
I rather die a proud fighter who fought my oppressors than live in misery while they gleefully take what’s mine, and my loved ones. Capitulating to bullies only leads to more bloodshed. Standing up to them and making them regret their barbaric ways is how you actually stop them.
Take that any way you want, as that’s all I’m gonna say.
Wasn’t Donetsk in the grip of a civil war, during which ethnic Russians were being bombed and gunned down by Ukrainian militias? For six years?
In what division? The 101st Chairborne?
All the Redditors who were going to die in glorious conflict did it in the first year of the war, when they gave away their positions doing social media influencer shit within range of Russian artillery.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
You have reached your daily propaganda quota, good work tovarish now have that free bottle of potato vodka.
I’ve had a relevant quote in my head about this for a long time: “if Russia put down their guns, there would be peace. If Ukraine put down their guns, there would be no Ukraine”
Ukraine is fighting an existential defensive war to save their country. Their soldiers fight to defend their loved ones and families.
It’s bleeding out over a proxy war certainly. But it’s existence was foreclosed during Maidan. The civil war was the end of Ukraine. This is just dogs fighting over the corpse
Where do you get your information from? Your posts are basically 1:1 kremlin speak.
Have you not heard about the Maidan Revolution and subsequent civil war? The sharp divide between East and West, resulting in militia violence and hundreds of thousands of displaced residents? The billions in property destruction resulting from eleven years of armed conflict? The wholesale privatization of the remaining Ukrainian economy? Collapses in education, health care, transport, and energy within the country? Mass conscription and casualties resulting in depopulation of working-aged Ukrainians?
Or do you believe “Civil Wars are bad for your country” is a Evil Foreigner talking point?
libmod.de/en/why-the-donbas-war-was-never-civil/
So me invading your home with a weapon and threatening to kill your family, you would just let it happen? You don’t feel even a slight inkling to defend your families lives?
Do they know that about you?
Obviously not. I’d hand my young son, with no combat experience, a rifle and send him out to meet you. And when you shot him, I’d send my next son, who is even younger and easier to kill. And then I’d send my infant daughter, with a grenade tapped to her chest. And then I’d send my neighbors and my neighbors’ kids and their neighbors and their kids, until everyone on the block was dead.
And if one of them finally got you, I would consider all that bloodshed worth it. Because now we’ve secured the most important thing in the entire world - private property.
And if none of them got you, and you were still camped out on my lawn, I’d blame the Woke Leftists, the Transgenders, and the Jews for my defeat, because they caved to Russian propaganda when one more salvo would have done it.
This is America’s future. Conscription is in Project 2025 and make no mistakes about it. The Christian Nationalist Death Cult would love to send you to the front.
According to this article, project 2025 doesn’t do that. It proposes requiring students to take the military ASVAB test. Which honestly isn’t the worst idea. In my high school they recommended people who didn’t know what they wanted to do for a career to take it even if they weren’t going into the military.
Doesn’t that just make it easier for the US to conscript people?
Just fail it so that you would need a waiver to join
Or if ever American says they’re gay, they’d never join the military because DEI and such.
Or just be black, brown, Asian, trans, a celebrity or rich. America doesn’t want any of that in the military either
They don’t want poc or women to be career.
They want women pregnant, so they are “safe” in that sense. They want white officers commanding brown conscripts to go do the dying.
That just means you are the cannon fodder style infantry. You’ll be the guy sent out to catch a drone or two.
So you can be shuffled in with the grunts rather than the officers?
The military loves putting dumb-dumbs through basic and stacking them on the front lines to catch stray bullets.
I mean, you can also fail out at basic too IIRC.
Also, you need a college degree to be a commissioned officer.
You only fall out of basic if you’re an invalid. The military is very good at beating compliance into anyone else.
You can absolutely get chaptered out for failing basic multiple times.
Given the degree of physical, psychological, and - not uncommonly - sexual abuse you experience along the way, I wouldn’t recommend the experience.
You sound like you are objecting for the sake of objection. You have been provably wrong in certain cases.
I wouldn’t recommend the military either, but there are facts and then there are falsehoods. You have been treading on the side of falsehoods and that is mighty dangerous because abuse of all kinds does occur in the armed forces. However, the amount of incorrect information you have been touting may lead people to believe that the abuse suffered are falsehoods as well.
If you’ve been through basic or seen people who have, you’d recognize how difficult it is to fail out and how easy it is to simply be abused into a sufficient state of compliance.
Just don’t ace it or every branch of the military will start harassing you at home trying to get you to join.
It’s a 3 hour aptitude test. Are you good at math? Are you good at electronics? Etc. I would imagine it’s a minor speed bump to joining the military.
No physical component?
No. The hardest math is some insanely light algebra too. X = 5y kind of stuff.
It still opens the door to enlistment and being harassed to join the military, conning poor kids into making a mistake.
I mean, I was harassed to enlist despite actively going to college (officers usually get a commission after college), despite repeatedly telling them I was not interested and never taking the test.
They are planning to make all public school kids take the test but not the private school kids. It will be for conscription. They will know where to throw your ass to make the meat grinder run better. That’s the only reason for this bullshit
Believable, and on point for these fascists, but you got a source? OP does.
Private schools don’t have to follow the same requirements as public schools already. The person above you is just inferring that since they’re already separate in the current system, the new ASVAB requirement would also be separate. But until it becomes an actual law, it isn’t super useful arguing hypotheticals in this context.
I think it’s a very useful point to flag. These details are important.
Huh… They made all of us take it. But I went to school in a rural red state in the mid 90s.
You went to the shit schools, I went to school in the south, they gerrymandered them so the kids of poor parents took them while the rich kids didn’t (and got actual schooling).
Yep 100% went to a shit school. I’d not be surprised if the asvab paid the school for each person that took it
Lol have you seen kids these days? I’d be surprised if more than 15 percent are fit for service, and of that 15% maybe half would pass a drug screen.
Have you seen what Russia is throwing out to get blown up? As long as you can absorb some rounds they don’t care.
Kids in the 1960s were the same, and the USA still sent them off to get killed, maimed, and traumatized for the rest of their lives.
It’s a fucking depressing state of affairs…
No, childhood obesity is way up since then.
Fat people can still fly drones and kill political enemies
And catch bullets.
All in the name of… checks notes
Fighting communism.
Really puts into perspective who is pulling the strings over in the Land of Freedom. Here’s a hint: their children are never the ones to die in a war.
It’s genius, really. Convincing the working class to literally sacrifice their children for a system that supports the ruling class. Brilliant.
They won’t care, they’re just cannon fodder.
Remember, over the next decade, many jobs are going to be replaced by AI and robotics. All the technology exists to convert every fast food outlet to be fully automated. Imagine how many young, unskilled people will be unemployed when the fast food companies shift from humans to robots.
With all the coming automation, we could see a permanent unemployment rate of 30%, or even more. We will be faced with two solutions: Universal Basic Income (which will be very unpopular with the Sociopathic Oligarchs and MAGA), or reduce the population by the amount of the unemployment rate.
An incompetently managed war, with an unforgiving draft (unless you are a rich nepo-baby), is a perfect way to accomplish that.
Nah I’m too trans to be let in even as a conscript. They would rather just kill me domestically 🎉
Nah, they’ll just stick you right on the front line to catch bullets.
To fight for Russia against Ukraine or Israel against Iran. Maybe if they’re in a good mood, you’ll be able to choose which genocide you participate in.
Isn’t conscription already a thing in USA? Many countries silently paused conscription but it’s just there
Not since the 70’s
That’s the other guys point. We haven’t used it since the 70s, but the system is still in place to be used. Easy to fire it up again.
My point was at least half or more of the US population has little-to-no-memory of what that was like.
My dad was drafted during the Vietnam era but I’m in my 50’s and have no actual memory of that time.
I know it happened but I was really young when they stopped the draft and we’ve had several generations born since then who also have no memory of it.
It would be politically dangerous for a government to restart a draft absent an actual world war-type situation or a dictatorship.
That’s what people don’t understand about the Vietnam War. People were against the war, but if it was waged by volunteers, then most people would have accepted it grudgingly. It was the draft that made everybody lose their fucking minds.
Imagine being a teenaged boy in America, during the 60s, knowing that when you turn 18, you will be eligible for the draft. The government will literally kidnap you from the bedroom in your parents’ house, where you have spent every night of your life. You’ve never experienced any aspect of adult life, you’re probably a virgin, but now you’re given a few weeks of basic training, and sent halfway across the world to a country you couldn’t find on a globe a few months ago, to kill or be killed. The life expectancy of an inexperienced new draftee thrown into the war zone was extremely short.
Complicating the issue was that many fathers were supportive of the war, because they had fought in WWII, but that was a war with a clear reason and objective. Nobody could clearly articulate why we were in Vietnam, nor what would define a “victory.”
Obviously, extreme fear defined every young man in America, as well as their families. HitlerPig and his henchmen love instilling fear into people, and a draft is a particularly insidious way to do that. I have no doubt that when HitlerPig launches his wars (there will almost certainly be more than one, it will be a World War, after all), he will gleefully demand a draft, and use it to threaten and punish his enemies.
I will say this unequivocally: There is no way that I will allow my son to be drafted into a HitlerPig war. And if somehow they get their hands on him, I will have nothing to lose, and will become a very dangerous individual. Of my personal red lines to not cross, that is my bightest and reddest.
Americans could still prevent that future if a few million of them got off their asses and took action against the fascist takeover of their country.
But that would get in the way of watching American idol, and HoneyBooBoo reruns, wouldn’t it…
The religious nutters will form a White Christian unit copying the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, march with the goose step and all of the sick fucks will have Jerusalem Cross tattoos.
Conscription will start after the US economy completely swirls down the shitter leaving all sorts of skid marks.
Kapo Stephen “PeeWee Himmler” Miller has said that he wants to reduce the population of America from 335 million to 100 million people. An incompetently managed war that is wasteful of human lives is a perfect way to accomplish much of his objective.
I have a friend who insists he can defeat any animal in a fight as long as he has enough size advantage and lay on the animal and pin it down. He has apparently never seen a cat, much less a chimp.
I fought my mom’s mountain lion when I was in my early 20s. Had 20-30 pounds on that bitch. She hated men in hats for some reason no one ever figured out. Teased her a bit, looking her in the eye, on my knees on the living room floor, with a straw cowboy hat on.
All I saw was a tawny blur, ended up on my back with my long hair coming out in hanks. The cat ended up with my hat. Along with more of my hair.
I no longer have illusions against my chances vs. a possum.
I think you could take an opossum. They generally forget they can bite while hissing. A puma on the other hand…
It’s not that she didn’t like men in hats, she just preferred Men Without Hats.
your mom has a mountain lion?
It is the perfect companion for a cougar
This makes me think of my nephew who is convinced that a dog like a Cane Corso or Kangal can take on a bear 1v1.
In Silverfang maybe, but not in real life.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/216021b0-9b62-415e-a2d1-f20c3086b58d.gif">
Ukraine is Russia’s Vietnam.
or Russia’s Afghanistan
Afghanistan is Russia’s Afghanistan.
glad you picked that up haha
Afghanistan is Afghanistan’s Afghanistan too.
Afghanistan is everyone’s Afghanistan 😂
Ukraine is about nearly 10x Vietnam at this point.
Hell, Russia experienced a Vietnam level of loss in about 2 months during the Avdiivka offensive.
Ukraine is Russia’s Mongol Invasion of Japan.
Hopefully this pisses Trump off. Take some of your threats Donny and lob them at Russia.
I call bullshit on them being Russian.
Where are they from then?
Ethnic Russians from the Moscow area are not being conscripted at the same rates as minority groups from the poorer areas of Russia.
The point isn’t to win, the point is to cleanse the population of ethnic non-Russians.
That’s a secondary goal.
www.bbc.com/news/articles/cly6ve2x72xo.amp
first amp link I’ve seen on lemmy, almost got cancer
good article though, and somehow not surprising
Die, you fuck.
on the bright side the Russian meatgrinder companies should see increased sales
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c7ec45ef-c6ad-4950-8685-1b1e9c74bfb6.png">
I can hear this image.
I wonder if Krasnov will keep barking or biting his master with those tariffs on Oil…
That beef is as fake as a WWE plotline.
Rest in peace you poor bastards. Forced to fight a rich mans war… for nothing.
Yep so many will due horribly because of their awful dictator
more fertilizer for the ukrainian soil
How many will be oligarchs sons?
BYOB - System of a Down
My first thought was CCR - Fortunate son
We can’t make it here anymore - James McMurtry also has something to say on the subject.
i love that song
Or even any from large cities?
Good. More russians in the meatgrinder equals weaker russia.
And weaker Ukraine
That’s the only negative aspect about it
Clearly showing what he really thinks of Trump’s bullshit “peace” plan.
Let’s just imagine what it would look like if Europe mobilized and armed 160,000 soldiers. The fact that it sees undoable for most tells us how badly situated we are…
Pretty much the only Western-aligned nation that’s ready to fight a war is Israel.
War, for Americans, really is just all fun and games right now. Most people haven’t seen friends die. When that starts happening and the reality of war sets in, I don’t think most Westerners will stick around. They value their lives too much.
And they didn’t learn the lessons from their grandfather’s experience.
You think Israel would help the West fight Russia? I kinda doubt it. They don’t seem the type to fight real wars, only massacre innocents they fanatically hate.
I don’t know that it is quite that bad, I think people will surprise you. Europeans stuck with Ukraine even though it costs and while some are turning their back they are a minority and they consider Ukraine none of the their business.
I think when another NATO or EU country is affected Europeans will see it very differently. It is an existential threat then. Russia wants to paint Europe as decadent and lazy, but Europeans stand firm when it really matters. We’ve proven that with Ukraine.
The bigger problem for Europe is to produce armed forces in the hundreds of thousands within the next few years. Making the hardware and training the soldiers in that small off a time will be difficult.
As for Americans… I don’t really know where we have them. I do think there is a non-negligible chance they will be in a civil war by the end of the decade or the start of the next.
I mean, giving weapons is different from sending soldiers. This is what I mean by “most people haven’t seen friends die.” It’s a completely different ballgame that most of us in the West do not have experience in and are not prepared for.
Isnotreal can barely hold their own against hezbollah and hamas. They cannot fight an actual country that doesn’t have a postcolonial arranged military.
With Italy having 338 000 active military personnel, France 304 000 and Spain’s 199 000, it really isn’t that hard to imagine.
Where did you get these numbers? I cannot find any sources to support them. Active personnel of mentioned countries is half to 2/3 of mentioned numbers. And this tells us nothing about these countries ability to produce new personnel.
Also, that’s all on paper. When UK and France discuss a ‘coalition of the willing’ to act as peace keepers in Ukraine they are able to scrape together no more than a few tens of thousands, even though it is believed that 100-200K is required to be a deterring force.
We are talking about a force of several hundreds of thousands to be trained, armed and moved to a front to fight within a few months or at least within a year, in addition to already existing forces, a large part of which are unavailable to train new recruits because they are deployed.
Europe has 450 million people. It will be easier for them than Russia with 146 million people. Stop spreading FUD.
Oh, look. Russian “brain drain” heading to Russias southern borders.
More like blood drain, their brains are probably in atrophy.
Most of the brains already left for other countries
Generational alcohol abuse will do that.
Politicians never fight their wars. Conscription is slavery.
Oh hey this is a shift for you. Maybe you’re all about Russian military aggression until you find out that you might need to actually get your hands dirty?
Maybe not.
The ruling class never fights their wars, either.
Unless someone steps in, Ukraine is gonna struggle to do this alone. They only have so many people and will naturally fall due to lack of man power, funding, and equip.
Ukrainians are also forcing their working class to go fight for their ruling class.
kaotic.com/video/9fe428c5_20250330071906_t
Videos are uploaded almost daily to Kaotic of Ukrainians being hauled off to die in a war.
Pretty sure they’re not allowed to leave the country, too.
Maybe this is why Ukraine was never allowed in NATO. They are behaving very similarly to Russia.
Edit: Was just catching up and here’s a video of Ukrainians trying to leave their country and getting stopped by a soldier.
kaotic.com/video/f6591020_20250328155401_t
The propaganda is real on both sides, guys. Try to understand that most of the information you see is being fed through an “English filter” first.
Edit: The people replying to my comment wouldn’t be saying the same things about Russian conscription. It just goes to show how strong bias and delusion is on both sides. They’re saying I’m spreading propaganda and calling me a troll, which is an effort to censor me thus further proving my point about an English filter.
And the propaganda you’re trying to feed is straight from Russia with love through a “Russian filter”.
Ignoring the fact you’re a troll: one of these countries was invaded, and is taking every measure possible to secure their continued existence. One of these countries invaded a sovereign nation, and is wasting citizen lives for no reason beyond an insane, expansionist dictator’s whims.
These are not the same, no matter how many times you try to spew the false equivalency.
Err… these are videos taken by Ukrainians. I guess they’re trying to spread propaganda by showing us the truth? That’s how bad it’s gotten on our side, unfortunately.
Are you seriously trying to justify sending unwilling people to their deaths on the grounds that they were invaded? What if the people being forced into battle think they can’t win? Should they still be forced to fight and blocked from leaving? That’s pretty fucked up, man.
I expect you to say something like “you know what’s fucked up? getting your country invaded because of one madman” blah blah blah. Like, come on guys. This really just puts into perspective how rational and intelligent the average internet user is these days.
None of you care about reason. Only looking good in front of your peers.
Hysteria is real.
Propaganda fuck off.
Russia isn’t going to have any young men left.
That’s a problem because?
Might finally play against some non russian cs2 mic spammers
Take a look around, it would seem they have plenty in America to draw from.
Are they going to be equipped like the Russian soldiers in late WWII? One soldier gets a rifle, the other gets five bullets, and both get helmets the thickness of tin cans.
Russian soldiers in late WW2 were typically very well equipped, as were most soldiers by that stage in the war (even German soldiers were pretty decently equipped late war, though mostly due to having almost no soldiers left to equip).
Late summer 1941 and even at points during Stalingrad, sure there were definitely times when soviet soldiers were being thrown into battle massively underequipped, but this was the exception rather than the rule.
By 1944 (even by 1943) the Red Army was more mechanised than the Wehrmacht and was better at Blitzkrieg than the Wehr ever were.
Lend lease really helped with mechanization. The jeeps and trucks they had were indispensable for the war effort. We often talk about guns and bombs, but people don’t realize how important transportation and heavy machinery is.
“Infantry wins battles, logistics wins wars.”
Without logistics the infantry cannot win anything.
That is ww1. Not world war 2. The whole ‘wait for your comrade to die and take his weapons’ did not happen during ww2. It did happen in ww1.
Vlad should call his MAGA supporters to join his cause and it will fulfill their need for violence.
Also they would take heavy casualties. Use them as pure cannon fodder.
From what I’ve seen on the reddit right-leaning subs most of them are very against the entire war and sending money/troops at all.
As we all know, repeatedly drafting several divisions worth of men is a sign you’re winning the war…
Territorially? Yes, Russia is winning. But politically, economically and socially? Russia already lost. The deaths of thousands of soldiers in the face of Russia’s demographic crisis will result fewer labour force, which means lower tax revenue. The Russian economy is in war footing and this is already causing inflation because of heightened government expenditure, and businesses struggling to pay the ever increasing wage demands of civilians at home, who replaced the jobs that would have been filled instead by soldiers from the front. With secondary sanctions, even Chinese banks are reluctant to lend to Russia. The future generations of Russians will be paying for the economic and social consequences of the war in Ukraine. In essence, Russia may be winning territorially, but it will be a Pyrrhic victory with generational consequences.
They still only have 20 percent of the country. After years. At this rate they will run out of people before Ukraine runs out of territory.
You are right and coming out of that war footing when all the bill are due? Diaster
And it’s 1 2 3 what are we fighting for don’t ask me I don’t give a damn next stop is Zaporizhzhia
That’s a lot of meat for the grinder
The last round of conscription was meet with uncharacteristically loud pushback from the russian public so pushing ahead with even more is interesting. Is the kremlin that confident in the effect of it’s propaganda? or is it just that desperate?
Maybe I should just Google it but… do you remember any specific cases of this pushback?
There were protests and hundred of thousands of young Russian men left the country after Putin announced the first “partial” mobilisation. The recruitment process was also botched and conscripted even the disabled and old.
This articles covers some interesting incidents and this wikipedia article is more exhaustive though covers the domestic anti-war events more broadly.
Ehh sorry. I assumed/hoped you were talking about something more, that I wasn’t aware of. I know of these protests, but they were not nearly intense enough to disrupt the system. Much of the urban youth that might have led the protests has left the country in the meantime too, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the next round of recruitment is met with even weaker resistance…
The amount of Russians leaving the country to avoid conscription was very high. You can’t really hide that. There are stories of men being kept hidden to avoid the press gangs. But all of that is probably par for the course considering the amount of soldiers dying on foreign soil.
Both sides have resorted impressment to refill their ranks, regardless of public pushback men can still get bagged into a van on the street and sent to the front lines.
The Kremlin is confident that they will kill as many protesters as will be required to destroy any uprising.
The pushback was for the mobilisation, while this is a start of a routine conscription event, these happen twice every year
Love this for the Russians. Maybe they’ll wake up and take this boot off their necks one day
Conscripting babies.
You see Ukranians have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit, and shut down.
Donald, show them the medal I won.
So, approximately 90 days worth of casualties.