from Linkerbaan@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 2024 08:59
https://lemmy.world/post/12752701
Two of the three victims specifically singled out by the New York Times in a marquee exposé published in December, which alleged that Hamas had deliberately weaponized sexual violence during the October 7 attacks, were not in fact victims of sexual assault, according to the spokesperson for the Kibbutz Be’eri, which the Times identified as the location of the attack.
The Times article described three alleged victims of sexual assault for whom it reported specific biographical information. One, known as the “woman in the black dress,” was Gal Abdush. Some of her family members have contested the claims made by the Times. The other two alleged victims were unnamed teenage sisters from Kibbutz Be’eri whose precise ages were listed in the New York Times, making it possible to identify them.
When asked about the claims made by the New York Times, Paikin independently raised their name. “You’re talking about the Sharabi girls?” she said. “No, they just — they were shot. I’m saying ‘just,’ but they were shot and were not subjected to sexual abuse.” Paikin also disputed the graphic and highly detailed claims of the Israeli special forces paramedic who served as the source for the allegation, which was published in the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, and other media outlets. “It’s not true,” she told The Intercept, referring to the paramedic’s claims about the girls. “They were not sexually abused.”
#world
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
The rejection of the Times reporting in the kibbutz by Be’eri spokesperson Michal Paikin further undermines the credibility of the paper’s controversial December article “‘Screams Without Words’: How Hamas Weaponized Sexual Violence on Oct. 7.”
I’m saying ‘just,’ but they were shot and were not subjected to sexual abuse.” Paikin also disputed the graphic and highly detailed claims of the Israeli special forces paramedic who served as the source for the allegation, which was published in the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, and other media outlets.
Ben Smith, the editor-in-chief of Semafor and the former media columnist for the New York Times, reported Sunday that Sella recommended his uncle’s partner, Schwartz, to the Jerusalem bureau chief, and she was brought on board for the investigation.
A recent interview in the Israeli media with the Sharabi sisters’ grandparents offers details that directly contradict the Times reporting that the girls at Kibbutz Be’eri were sexually assaulted on October 7.
The family also gave several interviews to international news outlets before “Screams Without Words” was published that provided information that undercuts the assertions in the Times article, raising questions about why the paper did not include these publicly available details.
On February 29, Israel’s Channel 12 broadcast a feature story on the grandparents, who traveled from Britain to the kibbutz to view the home where their loved ones died and to meet with neighbors, family members, and officials.
The original article contains 2,786 words, the summary contains 237 words. Saved 91%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Aw shucks “anonymous israeli witnesses” lied again?
I’ve given up trying to convince people here otherwise. lemmy.ml at least gives sane discussion on this issue.
People have drastically changed their minds in the last few months. I used to farm downvotes here for debunking IDF fake rape claims.
Lemmy.ml is based, but also not really the people that need to be educated on this.
There is very substantial evidence of rape, well beyond that one NY Times story.
nbcnews.com/…/growing-evidence-of-hamas-sexual-cr…
cnn.com/…/sexual-violence-israeli-women-hamas-att…
theguardian.com/…/evidence-points-to-systematic-u…
Can you read this article for me? There were a lot of people asking israel to collect forensic evidence of those rapes four months ago when (if any rapes happened) there would be evidence. Why did that not happen?
Israel women’s groups warn of failure to keep evidence of sexual violence in Hamas attacks
Are you asking me to guess? Rampant, patriarchal misogyny, same answer as always because very few countries do do their due diligence when prosecuting rape. But that’s speculation, which is what it sounds like you’re asking for.
Your articles just reference the NYT article if you haven’t noticed.
Do you have anything else? You can try the newly released and already debunked UN article from today if you like.
I only linked one article, singular, and it claims sources aside from the NYT article. Do you mean the videos I linked?
Here is a second article claiming its own sources.
The BBC has seen and heard evidence of rape, sexual violence and mutilation of women during the 7 October Hamas attacks.
Gonna hit the gym now, hope that satisfies you.
You linked three articles. How can you even quote the second article if you only posted one?
Your BBC link says “hears witness”. No evidence was observed. Same shit as from the debunked NYT article.
You are not presenting anything new. In fact your links were from when the IDF still claimed they had forensic and video evidence. Something which we now know is a lie.
Oh good, they weren’t raped and murdered, they were just murdered.
That’s a relief.
It’s awful, but it’s still important to report accurately on such terrible events.
Fair point, but it’s not the win some people here seem to think it is.
Well yes supposedly Hamas was using rape as a weapon of war. Which is factally not true.
Hamas did do some war crimes such as shooting non-combatants. It’s important that our newspapers don’t just completely make up facts about mass-rapes.
According to the UN
Or is the UN an Israeli propaganda machine, now?
Since that UN report is citing Zaka (40 beheaded babies) as a “credible source,” it is indeed complete propaganda.
New breaking points video debunking this report with an important takeaway:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/b9fede28-1f91-4006-8ec9-485c05ba1d40.png">
The UN is not a monolith. There are certain employees fully willing to spread certain narratives, and this is one of them.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
New breaking points video debunking this report
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
You are disgusting human being.
The truth must hurt you a lot. I’m sorry.
Truth what? Faking rape is not good, denying true rape case is even worse. Fucking moron.
Tell the IDF to stop faking rape claims then. They told us back in November they had mountains of forensic evidence and thousands of witnesses. And now they can’t find a single CCTV recording and they lost the forensic evidence? They can’t even find two “witnesses” which corroborate a story.
Until you find evidence it’s rather obvious these are nothing but lies to manufacture consent for the Genocide of Gaza.
A thousand false rape claims doesn’t make israel trustworthy.
Back in october the IDF claimed they had forensic evidence of rape. Did they drop the evidence?
You think israel maybe uhhhh lied?
Who said about thousand? Know your place.
This garbage far left keeps spouting nonsense.
‘Hamas never raped anyone. Yes I believe that.’
There now satisfied?
If people say you raped someone would you like them to present evidence?
Especially if their claims keep getting proven false showing that actually no rape happened. Stooping so low to use Zaka as a source for their claims.
Would you accept it if people just randomly started calling you a rapist too?
There we go again, rape did not happen. Hamas so clear.
Bye.
You can keep screaming it over and over. Consider coming with evidence. People tend to take you more seriously when you do that.
What’s that, there’s no evidence?
There is eyewitness evidence, which you ignore as usual.
But it’s interesting to see that you think the UN is not a credible source. No doubt you’ll still keep quoting them when it serves your needs
No it’s literally Zaka and the discredited paramedic.
The UN employee got questioned by Journalists today and it’s just the same stuff from this NYT article.
A complete embaressment
The UN team did way more than that. It “conducted 33 meetings with Israeli representatives, examining more than 5,000 photographic images and 50 hours of video footage. It conducted 34 confidential interviews including with survivors and witnesses of the 7 October attacks, released hostages, first responders and others.”
Yes you just mentioned Zaka in there.
And after reviewing the footage the UN found zero evidence of rape.
Wrong, they “found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations, including rape and gang rape in at least three locations in southern Israel.”
Just repeating “Zaka” over and over won’t make evidence disappear, as much as you wish it would.
Can you cite those locations?
They are in the UN report, so obviously you didn’t even bother reading it before dismissing it.
I did read it. It did not contain evidence. Did you read it?
Yes, I read it. If you think multiple eyewitnesses and photos don’t count as evidence, then you must think rape is not a real problem.
Do you also think there is no evidence that E Jean Carroll was raped by Donald Trump?
Jean E carrol personally said she was raped and it seems credible from the evidence. why would I not believe her?
Are there any israelis personally saying they were raped?
What evidence is there of Carroll’s rape besides an eyewitness account?
There are multiple eyewitness accounts of rape/murder on 10/7. Furthermore, released hostages gave firsthand accounts to the UN of rape while in captivity.
But you only accept eyewitness accounts when they fit your narrative. That’s why nobody should believe Hamas’ denials.
Carroll herself claims being victim not an eyewitness. Did anyone claim being a victim of Hamas rape?
You clearly have not read the UN report as that is absolutely not what it says. No released hostage has claimed to have witnessed any rape.
UN:
What information can you read it for me?
No need, because the UN summarized it for me. Just as I believe there are 30,000 dead Gazans, even though I don’t have a list of names and proof they are dead.
No doubt you too believe there are 30,000 dead Gazans, based on someone else’s summary. Which as usual means you only believe facts that fit your narrative.
No you said firsthand witness what you just read wasn’t that. It was someone that said they “heard a rumor while in captivity.” They never witnessed it.
Reading is truly difficult.
The UN literally said they had firsthand accounts.
Reading truly is difficult.
First hand accounts of rumors they heard. Not of rape which what you claimed.
Which in layman’s terms means “we spoke a hostage that said they heard someone say that there was rape but they never saw any rape nor were they sexually violated themselves”.
I don’t think you understand what “firsthand account” means.
Yes, the UN report says there are multiple eyewitness accounts of rape, on 10/7 as well as from freed captives.
If you didn’t know, a “firsthand” account is a synonym for an eyewitness account.
No released hostage has claimed to have witnesss any rape so far. Only heard stories. If I’m wrong you are welcome to link it to me so I can chance my mind
Your cognitive dissonance is so overwhelming that you can’t even accept that words have meanings.
You can spin imaginary tales if it helps you sleep. But everyone else who reads the UN report understands what they wrote. Those hostages saw rapes firsthand.
Hahahahaha
No.
Yes
Long story short, there’s no new substantive evidence beyond what the NYT already said? And considering how badly the NYT fucked up with their recent poll, I’m even more inclined than before to doubt their story.
In this one specific instance it wasn’t true, sure.
More like all specific instances. this current article is now even debunking the “anonymous” claims.
Thing is: There’s plenty Hamas & related groups did on Oct 7th to enrage a population - no exaggeration is necessary.
However, there ISN’T enough to justify a genocide … especially since Israelis have been torturing Palestinians for decades.
Israel needs to de-humanize the locals to the point where the population can justify an ethnic cleansing. Hence: Ridiculous accusations of using breasts as foot-balls and mass rape.
Lies, more lies, and genocide
I mean I suppose there are a few ways you could read this.
One is that the NYT article was inaccurate - it wouldn't be the first time that fake news around this conflict has travelled halfway around the world before the truth has had its breakfast.
But another interpretation is that tight-knit communities don't want the full horror of the final moments of these girls and women to be so publicly exposed to the world. The article points out that the NYT article effectively identified the individuals and that can't have been a helpful experience for their surviving families and friends.