Ukraine deliberately blindsided Trump before massive drone attack on Russia
(www.thedailybeast.com)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 02 Jun 18:31
https://lemmy.world/post/30666058
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 02 Jun 18:31
https://lemmy.world/post/30666058
Donald Trump was deliberately left in the dark about Ukraine’s unprecedented drone strike in Russia on Sunday, which destroyed nearly a third of the Kremlin’s strategic bomber fleet in a surprise attack.
The large-scale drone attack saw a fleet of drones scattered all across Russia carry out simultaneous attacks on five airbases, wiping out 40 irreplaceable military bombers worth an estimated $7 billion, which have been used to reign terror upon Ukrainian civilians.
“Operation Spider-Web” took over 18 months to plan and was personally overseen by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, a source told CBS News.
#world
threaded - newest
As is appropriate.
I’m trying to recall a disco song from, I believe, the 1970s whose lyrics in the chorus went somewhat like the following - though I might be mistaken:
“That’s the way uh-huh, uh-huh, I like it, uh-huh, uh-huh”
Not totally sure of the relevance, but you’re thinking of K.C. & The Sunshine Band’s 1975 That’s the Way (I Like It).
Why would anyone even consider telling any politicians of foreign nations about a top secret project like that, much less blabbermouths like Donald Trump?
Between nations that share trust and respect, theoretically, it would give them time to reposition themselves to the coming reality, and perhaps more importantly, give any assets they have in the area a warning to keep their heads down/not step on any toes.
Even at the height of WW2 the Allies kept secrets from each other. Churchill had no idea the US had the Atom Bomb until it was deployed.
There’s going to be a bit of contextual nuance when deciding whether to share intelligence and when. I’d bet if we had a respectable statesperson friendly to Ukraine’s plight leading this country we would have gotten a few days notice at least.
To be fair, the US thought that there were spies at Los Alamos, and they were right.
This seems like a great place to plug Feynman’s talk Los Alamos From Below
Hmm must have missed this one. Thanks, I’ll take a note.
“Stallion Gate” by Martin Cruz Smith. Fun novel about Oppenheimer’s Native driver.
bookshop.org/p/books/…/120696?ean=9780345310798&n…
This isn’t exactly true. The British were well aware of the Manhattan Project- indeed, the whole thing began as the British Tube Alloys project before they ran out of money and convinced the Americans to take it on, with the British delegation taking prominent roles.
Britain also knew that the bomb was ready for use as the US didn’t have any bomb bay mounts strong enough to hold the weight, and they had to ask the RAF to supply a small number of mounts that had been designed for Barnes-Wallace’s 10,000kg earthquake bombs.
The big difference is that an atomic bomb would still be useful once it is revealed while this would likely be significantly less effective.
You are confusing nations with people. You can’t trust a nation (or any other organization), you can only trust individuals because an organization can always contain individuals of diametrically opposed behaviors.
I’d be surprised if Ukraine isn’t feeding Trump false info to see if Russia reacts to it
Dont know about false, but a good mix of low priority targets.
Dantooine. Zelenskyy is on Dantooine.
Far to remote to make an effective example.
Edit: why the fuck did it post three times?!
Now that you mention it, we can be certain that they have done so, and will continue to do so.
Yeah, frankly I think it wouldn’t even be good to tell Biden about it, he would likely discourage from that move. At best he would pretend he did not know about it.
aparently that’s what they have been doing. This attack was in the works for quite a while
Biden supplied Ukraine with long range missiles even while Putin was sabre rattling nukes.
in a trusting ally relationship this would probably be fairly normal. In this case especially since the US is providing a lot of intel.
Intel is very different from secrets. Secrets can be blown wide open if they are leaked by one person.
To Ukraine or Russia?
“Deliberately blindsided” is a little strong. We’re not even officially an ally of Ukraine. They don’t owe us, or anyone else jack shit as far as their war plans for defending their country. Add to that the fact that Trump is credibly accused of being a Russian asset and defers to their interests 99% of the time… Why the fuck would you trust us right now!?
Why inform Putin’s Bitch?
Well, yeah. He would have blabbed it to Putin.
He would have blabbed it to the press. In the mideast. When asked “what do you think of the heat?”
Trump isn’t involved
And it’s never been truer. Doesn’t even matter who sits in White House, strictly Ukrainian business that had to pass through as little ears as possible.
He will throw a tantrum, demand to be in the loop. Next time he gets the intel, Russia prepares, but Ukraine will strike elsewhere 😂
Either they left the Biden admin out of the loop too, or Biden went scorched Earth on Ukraine intelligence after the election to protect Ukraine.
I would imagine the first one to be true. There’s no reason to inform everyone about it. I also predict Biden would be against it.
Biden and Sullivan would have been talking about how this is too much escalating and fucking threw a fit. Those dudes sucked and with a less afraid President of the US, Ukraine could have repulsed Russia in the first year with top of the line American arms but Biden was a fucking asshole who sacrificed Ukrainian lives for nothing
They weren’t “afraid”
The plan was never for Ukraine to win and Biden’s actions make that very clear. The plan was to get Russia stuck in a quagmire and drain them of blood and treasure fighting an unwinnable war.
They wanted to turn Ukraine into Iraq.
[citation needed]
I already said? It’s clear that Biden never gave Ukraine enough military assistance to win, we all seem to agree on that, and there’s only a couple explanations for that.
Either I’m supposed to believe the US was too afraid to go all-in for Ukraine… or the US never cared if Ukraine won.
There’s things people have said. Lloyd Austin said; “we want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine.” The Security Council said they wanted, “to make this invasion a strategic failure for Russia.”
And then there’s the arms trade. The US has used this war as an opportunity to pull countries away from Russian arms trade and into the US/NATO sphere instead, switching over supply lines to benefit Western arms manufacturers. This war has the arms trade booming. Why would they ever want the war to end?
And then they blew up the Nordstream pipeline to keep the war going and make Europe more dependent on US gas.
But I’m sure the US are the good guys and they’re just trying their best! 😇
This is the sort of op they would typically notify an ally of when it is actually imminent or just got started. If Biden was still in the White House my guess is he would have been given roughy 72 hours notice or less.
The US election was 8 months ago. The operation was probably still in the planning stages. After that day, Ukraine would have known not to share any sensitive info with the US unless absolutely necessary, knowing that a Putin fanboy would soon have his hands on it. Had Biden still been in office today, he may have gotten a heads up before the actual execution, but then again, why would he need it. It is not like that information would have been actionable to anyone except the target.
Most likely it was discussed in general terms. There were plenty of headlines about long-range strikes into Russia.
Knowing what’s at stake, what’s being shared and who’s taking over, I would hope Biden would have insisted on no mics, no papers, no record, no witnesses. Just a friendly hug between friends and a chat about upcoming vacations.
I wouldn’t even tell trump what time it was, let alone something this hugely important. Trump should feel snubbed, because he’s an untrustworthy piece of taco shit.
Good on Ukraine.
Good. The orange shitter has been pretty clear that he’s no friend of Ukraine, there’s absolutely no chance that he wouldn’t have leaked that information to Russia just on the hope that daddy Putin would give him a pat on the head and pretend to be friends again.
What a rubbish article. Complete non-story.
What country is openly sharing top secret mission details with countries that are buddy-buddy with the enemy?
Such a clickbait article title + intro.
Was it because Trump didn’t say “thank you” after the last time Ukraine shared top secret war plans?
But I bet Putin said “thank you” when he received said plans…
That’s why it worked. We all know it.
You can’t beat the classics.
Considering Trump is a Russian asset, that was a smart move to keep him out of the loop.
They need to false flag him next time
I’m struggling to think of how that would work. Have a Ukrainian agent pretend to be his Russian handler?
In reality, Trump’s biggest use to Zelensky is for strategic disinformation. Occasionally “leak” info to Trump, knowing it will get passed directly to Russia.
That was what I meant, have Zelenskyy say they will do X and then russia preps for that, and then do Y
Was this proven by the way?
Not in any official manner
Only by actions. If he were a Russian asset, what would he be doing differently?
If it walks like a goose and smells like shit…
*steps like a goose
Yeah you don’t typically tell the enemy about your secret attack plans
You don’t sound qualified to be the secretary of defense. Here, this bottle might help with that.
/s.
😬
Duhhhhhhhh
Oh, is that why it was such an effective attack?
The u.s is not an ally to any of us, we have to purposely hide things from them or government and treat them as spies for Russia.
The US isn’t even an ally to itself.
Good. He’d have fucking spilled the beans
He would have literally called Putin and tried to make a ‘deal’ the second he heard any plans
I don’t like this planet anymore 👍
LOOK AT THE FIREPLACE! No fake spray gold ornamentation! What the shit?!? Is the Oval Office a reality tv show set? Compare the fireplace from when Zelenskyy visited to Ramaphosa’s visit on May 25:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/404a8e31-650b-4dcb-90dc-7d126f28e326.jpeg">
That’s some heinous Temu-quality decor! stay classy USA
🤡
😭🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯 stay classy murica
I’ll bet he picked out all that shiny crap all by himself. Probably had a blast looking through some tacky catalogue, picking out the most ostentatious tchotchkies, knowing that the government was picking up the tab. Only real gold for the president, none of that gold-plated garbage.
I’ll bet he takes it all home with him as well. We can fix that by putting him in a jail cell for life, then auction off this gold crap to pay for his keep.
There’s an article I read a few months ago when he finished the “redecorating” and somebody did some digging and was able to pretty convincingly match a lot of the gaudy pieces to cheap wood accent pieces that you buy from Home Depot, so somebody just bought the ugliest shit they could find and spray painted it… Or maybe got fancy and dipped it.
So who is skimming the money for Trump’s real gold decor and spray painting cheap crap gold instead? Corruption spreads from the top.
Their probably still charging the same amount
What kind of twisted toxic argument is to phrase it like that and call it news?
“Ukrainians didn’t directly endanger themselves and their long term military plans to inform unrelated enemy nation”
You do what you must when your life is on the line
And what you absolutely must do is not say a fuckin word to trump. Unless maybe you want him to pass disinformation to Putin.
So, purposely say misleading things to him. Ideally things that harm him too when it gets obvious he snitched
I’m honestly surprised this hasn’t been happening for the past 9 years.
As they should in the future as well.
Good, thats what they should do
You do not inform enemy agents of your secret military operations.
This first time I saw this headline I was like “YEAH, why would they???”
“Ukraine doesn’t give intel to obvious Russkie mole”
Yeah, no shit
I would be more curious to know if there is anyone downstream of Trump working within the Pentagon/CIA that’s still actively coordinating US intelligence with Ukranian forces.
Like, is the entire US military cut out of Ukrainian operations at the NATO level. Or is some faction within the Joint Chiefs pulling a SpaceX and giving Trump/Hegseth the Elon Musk busy-box while they run things outside his purview?
Ukraine is a sovereign country, they don’t need to tell Don anything.
Exactly. As a courtesy they might give trusted allies a few hours notice, or at least inform them when the op has started. But unless they needed the assistance of an ally in planning and preparing such an attack then informing anybody well ahead of time serves no useful purpose at all.
No US weaponry was used in this righteous attack either, literally no reason to put the US in the loop
NATO to the left of me. Putler to the right.
Ukraine’s a few steps shy of Kurdistan when it comes to sovereignty. They don’t even bother with elections anymore, given how much of the country is contended or outright occupied. So much of the killing and the dying is about changing that.
If it’s been said to a Russian troll once, it’s been said a thousand times now. Ukraine’s constitution doesn’t allow for elections during a state of war.
Hope they don’t end up like Korea, technically in a State of War for 70 years running.
What the actual fuck are you saying? Are you implying that Russia is doing Ukraine a favor by initiating the killing so Ukraine can become part of Russia to avoid the killing that Russian could’ve simply not done?
That Ukraine is occupied territory. It’s as sovereign as the West Bank atm. Pretending otherwise is delusional, not patriotic.
Except it is not occupied territory.
Someone inform Crimea.
There is nothing anyone should discuss with Cheeto, he is dumb and works for russians. There is absolutely no value in that person, he is a completely worthless useless being.
Correction… he works only for himself.
That’s what Putin wants him to think
He’s worse than worthless, he’s actively harmful
Guys they did the same for Biden. Sure, trump is Putins puppet but this is standard for such massive ops.
Probably sounds better in Ukrainian but “Operation Spider-web” is still fucking badass
Apparebtly, it is Операція “Павутиння”… it sounds pretty badass to me
this has been planned long before TACO came into office. how about something is not about mUrICa?
They should feed the taco some fake intel, e.g. some abandoned shed in the middle of nowhere being a secret drone factory and if it gets obliterated the next day…
Should have fed him a false location and then monitored Putin’s move. Would have confidently proven that tRump is an asset if moves were made to the fake target. Trap this fucker and then public punishment!
Putin, the Saudis, Israel, FIFA…
Trump’s White House possibly has the highest listening-devices-per-sqft of any office on the planet. I wonder if signal interference is a problem.
I can just see Putin, Saudis, Netanyahu sitting around a table bickering about who gets the best bandwidth from listening equipment at the oval office, because little children just refuse to share…
It works like Mr. Burns’ immune system. Everyone is trying to listen in on Trump, but they step on each others toes and cancel out.
Star Fleet Intelligence also operates on this principle.
Or maybe this op was withheld because they had already done that.
Hopefully, we don’t hear about some intelligence agent with a new book coming out in the future regarding how tRump was a known asset for the Kremlin and how he was caught red-handed giving info to Putin in some false-flag operation.
Because it’s blatantly obvious he supports Russia how often has he accused Ukraine of starting the war by being invaded now?
Should probably use him to give the Russians false Intel.
Even if he weren’t a Russian simp, why would Ukraine tell anyone? An 18 month long attack is just tooo much invested to risk losing the surprise
I would not tell Krasnov jack shit about any military operation.
And the operation turned out to be a complete success! Looks like a good strategy going forward.
Not one person on this entire site can tell me anyone should trust tRump in ANY situation, let alone one where he has leverage over you and interest in… your stuff. Expect more of this by the way; turns out when you’re a constant asshole to everyone, nobody wants to be around you or rely on you, let alone offer to extend help in your direction. I’m honestly baffled what people fucking expected, only brainrotted simps believe in the real adult world, on the global stage, you can twist everyone’s arms to get your way without consequence forever. And only tRump can’t see this cause that’s been his ENTIRE life: No consequences ever for being the absolute worst person regarding character and conduct.
Why would a sovereign country, being attacked by a hostile neighbor, be required to inform ANYONE about their war plans? I wouldn’t inform anyone, even my friends. They’ll see it on the news, like everyone else.