More than 200 Jewish anti-Israel protesters arrested after storming New York Stock Exchange
(nypost.com)
from geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to world@lemmy.world on 15 Oct 2024 11:33
https://lemmy.ml/post/21415338
from geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml to world@lemmy.world on 15 Oct 2024 11:33
https://lemmy.ml/post/21415338
At least 206 Jewish anti-Israel protesters were arrested Monday after hundreds rushed the New York Stock Exchange and staged a sit-in outside the Manhattan landmark, police said.
Scores of pro-Palestinian protesters wearing red shirts stormed toward the building on Broad Street in Lower Manhattan — then chained themselves to the doors just before the stock market’s opening bell at 9:30 a.m., footage shows.
A handful of demonstrators, who hail from the Jewish Voices for Peace group, could be seen removing their jackets as they set up shop outside the building — jackets they wore in a possible bid to conceal their anti-Israel attire and thwart any attempt to stop them ahead of time.
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Good for them and fuck the New York Post.
You can join JFVP for as little as $18 a year.
www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/joinjvp/
Fucking antisemites smh my head
Can I say as a JVFP member that this sort of sarcasm is really not helpful to us? Even when it’s sarcastic, it still plays into the idea that if you’re Jewish you support/should support Israel.
One of the things we’re trying to do is work against that stereotype to show that wanting to end genocide has nothing to do with one’s ethnicity.
Even if my intent is that I’m explicitly mocking that idea for being bullshit?
Yes. It should not be brought up at all. There are plenty of other ways to respond to this action.
As an example in a similar situation, I’m hoping you wouldn’t say of a similarly protesting Palestinian group that you guess they’re all terrorists. Even in sarcasm.
It’s not productive. It doesn’t convince any actual person who would say that in earnest that they’re wrong. What they’ll do, if anything, is say “yes, but seriously.”
On top of that, Israel wants people to think Jew = Israeli. Just putting that grain of thought in people’s heads can result in bad things over time.
So there are better responses. Even if you want to express this specific sentiment in a sardonic way. “Watch Israel call this antisemitism” would be one way to go.
I hope that makes sense.
That’s fair. I think the example doesn’t fully fix it though. I’ll come up with something that might even be considered funny (by someone, I’m sure) eventually
guess this one needed the /s homie. Oh well i gotchoo
Oh I just assumed it was because of the “smh my head” part.
Shaking my head my head
Fake democracy
I prefer the term managed democracy.
Ah yes, managed democracy! Every citizen of Super America enjoys the freedom to make the right choice.
Eh, they disrupted a private business. They were absolutely trespassing. They knew they were trespassing. Forcing an arrest here is part of the civil disobedience and creating this headline.
Oh no! Not a private business, whatever shall we do now?! Poor business has feelings too /s
But someone told me they are sending weapons to Israel for Jewish voters.
Demographic groups aren’t monolithic, for what it’s worth. There is definitely a large pro-Israel contingent of Jewish Americans, too. Not that they deserve to be pandered to, but just that no one is able to represent an entire demographic.
Source? That’s definitely not true for the younger jews and I think there’s more of us now
There source, apparently, is a poll taken of American Jews. And not a poll they understood very well:
pewresearch.org/…/u-s-jews-have-widely-differing-…
Along with the fact that most Israeli Jews want the country in which they live to exist, which… duh.
But, you know, America is the only country with Jews outside of Israel.
In fact, are there any countries besides those two?
Don’t underestimate the number of Jews in Israel that want a 0 state solution. There are anarchist Israelis. There are antizionist Israelis.
Oh I’m sure there are plenty of Israelis who want that.
But from all I can tell, based on better polling than the person above provided, the majority of Israelis could be described accurately as Zionists.
Their poll was about emotional attachment. You can be “emotionally attached to Israel” because it’s where the Western Wall is. It doesn’t mean you’re a Zionist as OP suggests.
Who elected you to speak on behalf of Jews?
This survey shows a majority of American Jews are Zionists. The percentage of Zionists is much higher among Jews living in Israel. That gives you a solid majority for Zionism among Jews.
Mods won’t like this post and delete it, just like the one you answered to. They might even ban me.
Well a lot of german were nazis.
The highest result for the NSDAP in elections was 43%.
Comparing Jews to Nazis is Antisemitic.
They were comparing Jews to Germans, not Nazis; they were comparing Zionists to Nazis.
Also antisemtic
No. Comparing Zionists to Nazis is not antisemitic. I am a Jew and not a Zionist. Many Zionists are Christians. Zionist does not equal Jew or vice versa.
Who’s talking about jews? I thought Israel was an open society with equal rights for all people.
Anyway they’re bombing civilians with white phosphorus. Fuck off. Watch yourself in the mirror real hard.
They were still the first party. My point is that you cannot equate jews and israel otherwise we can stab the first jew since they support using white phosphorus on civilians
Equating a political entity with an ethnicity is the rationale for collective punishment.
Collective punishment which you obviously support.
Seriously, we should stop listening to americans, brits and germans on this. The literal rest of the world is feeling nauseous but they are still repeating propaganda while people are being massacred.
Of course this have to do with the rise of ultranationalism. Germany for the germans, make america great again, Brexit. Isreal for the jews.
Let’s embrace Palestinian ultranationalist Islamist blood and soil ideology and demand ethnic cleansing of the Jews back to Europe instead.
what? They are parked in a ghetto. They just want their land back. Are the native americans nazis for wanting self-governance? Were they wrong for wanting scalps white men. No they were not.
Were the Irish in the wrong for the homerule struggle? No of course not. The brits came and stole their land.
Nobody want to deport israelis. White people still live in south africa as far as i know. They sure whine a lot but nobody got deported did they?
It’s also not an either/or situation. It’s not either the Palestinians have the land or the Israelis have the land.
The land can be shared. So can the government. And that government can be 100% secular.
Throw bibi and biden in jail and then we can talk about it.
I think we can talk about it regardless of where they are. And we should talk about it. And the more people that talk about it, the closer we get to realizing it. It will, of course, take a critical mass of people in Israel to agree, but that’s exactly why you keep talking about it.
No. War crimers should be judged before we can talk about peace.
That’s ludicrous. You expect me to just shut my mouth about my idea of a peaceful future just because bad things are happening now? Fuck no.
Huh no I expect you to act according to a very simple principle of justice. Bombing hospitals is against international laws and the responsible should pay. Otherwise everything you say is just demonstrative.
Okay, so let’s say this war ends, there is no more genocide, Israelis and Palestinians form a single democratic state and become a model of peace for the region- but Netanyahu and Biden are never tried for war crimes.
It sounds like that would not be acceptable to you.
To me it is. To the people on the ground who lost half of their family? No fucking way. You know the slogan right. No justice no peace.
If that’s acceptable to you, why can’t it be discussed?
Why should this topic be silenced?
Oh come on of course it can be discussed. You can discuss it all you want. It was just a figure of speech.
What I’m saying is that it’s just talk. Cheap talks.
Well maybe instead of criticizing random Lemmy users hoping for a better future of such cheap talk, you contact more prominent people and groups and criticize them for it instead.
I would start with the Arab Center in Washington, DC - arabcenterdc.org/…/shifting-the-paradigm-the-one-…
Then there’s John Rees, founder of the Stop War Coalition - counterfire.org/…/palestine-the-only-solution-is-…
And then, of course, there’s the Nelson Mandela Foundation - nelsonmandela.org/…/the-time-for-action-is-now
MintPress founder and director and Palestinian journalist Mnard Adley discussed it. You’ll want to get in touch with her - kcrw.com/…/what-about-the-one-state-solution-with…
Let me know when you’re done contacting all of them with what you’re criticizing me for and I’ll give you more names of people and organizations far more influential than me that you can contact over this.
Cool, thanks <3
America and Israel. The only two countries in the world with Jews.
FACT.
Together they contain more than 80% of Jews.
I see. So based on your “evidence,” 60% of the percentage of the 80% of Jews that live in America in that combined 80% total of Israel and the U.S. are “Zionists” (even though that’s not what your poll said).
This is what the poll said:
“Somewhat emotionally attached to Israel” is not Zionism by any stretch of the imagination.
Emotionally attached means they want it to continue existing. That’s Zionism.
No. No it does not. I live in Indiana. I was born here. I have an emotional attachment to it.
If Canada decided to invade and turn this into Upper Ontario, because Canadian names are weird, I not only wouldn’t give a shit, I’d welcome the universal healthcare.
Are you advocating for Israel to annex the West Bank so Palestinians get better healthcare?
No. And the people who claim they have an emotional attachment to Israel are not necessarily advocating for that either. A point you now seem to be intentionally missing.
Plenty of Zionists want a two state solution and for Israel to stop the occupation in the West Bank.
That isn’t even relevant to the ‘emotional attachment’ thing. You’re just bringing up irrelevancies because you want Jew to equal Israeli and vice-versa.
They’re of course not equal, but there’s a relationship.
Lots if Israelis and Zionists don’t agree with Netanyahu‘s policies.
How kind of you to finally acknowledge that after two days of “Jews support Israel and this shitty poll that doesn’t prove that proves it.”
Too bad you couldn’t have just come in here and congratulated the Jewish members JVFP that were just arrested for this work of activism and decided to make this whole thing an attack on Jews instead.
Of course, you have yet to even acknowledge this activism despite that the fact that they STORMED THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE.
Not good enough for you to even acknowledge in a post about that activism apparently.
I never said there’s no protest or it didn’t happen. Stop making up stuff.
That is not what I said. Please re-read what I wrote:
You still have not acknowledged what they did, let alone suggested that they did a good thing.
Funny how you cite a source that doesn’t even contain the word “Zionist”, “Zionism”, “Zion” anything.
If you actually have a look at the data you can see there’s very significant chunks that don’t have an issue with BDS, that don’t think that Netanyahu is in any way serious about peace. Those are not the frothing-at-the-mouth Kahanites that people on the US left often mean when they say “Zionist”. Yitzhak Rabin was a Zionist. Murdered by a Zionist.
It’s more complicated than that and may I remind y’all that Hamas specifically targeted Hippie Kibutzim during their attack, the same kind of people who go into the West Bank during olive harvest so that settlers have a harder time shooting Palestinians, which is one of the reasons why the Israeli government doesn’t give a rat’s arse about the hostages.
The biggest enemies of the Zionist project, currently, is the type of people running the Israeli government. Because if you’re out for a place for Jews to call home, to live in peace and prosperity, antagonising the fuck out of everyone is not the way to go about it. Traitors to the movement, the lot of them.
That survey says the opposite of what you think it does. Zionism now is essentially the Jewish version of white supremacy. It’s radical. It’s dangerous.
But when the survey you link to states quite clearly:
“And most Jewish adults took the position that God “did not literally give” the land of Israel to the Jewish people (42%) or said they do not believe in God or a higher power at all (24%).”
That’s not Zionism as currently defined.
Zionism is independent of being religious or secular.
It’s less about Jewish voters and more about pro-Israel campaign dollars.
Folks just have no clue how powerful the pro-Israel lobby is here. Combined with the zionist Christians it’s kind of a nightmare.
www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus?ind=Q05
apnews.com/…/squad-aipac-progressives-congress-co…
And their organization against progressive causes wasn’t limited to the national level either, they interfered in LOCAL elections too.
opb.org/…/major-pro-israel-group-donation-oregon-…
If you browse a news aggregator site, you’ll notice how few of the headlines provide any indication the protesters were Jewish rather than just “anti-Israel” or “pro-Palestine”. While the latter is a more precise descriptor of their organizing cause, the former is also a very important aspect for this protest. It’s just not in line with the narrative the corporate news organizations have been cultivating.
They got arrested, but made hella of statement.
<img alt="" src="https://leminal.space/pictrs/image/03b80945-72c9-46c9-9ba8-9937c5a11e99.jpeg">
To be fair Germany has a right to tread lightly here
Germany and the west should send peace keepers to contains the israelis to enforce the two-state solution in a fair way. Anything short of that is just antihuman.
And ffs stop them from using incendiaries on civilians.
Given our history we should strive to do better in the face of atrocities, even more so. It really should not matter, that the state committing these crimes happens to be populated by many ancestors of people the Germans tried to exterminate. I would have thought our commitment to teaching about our historical failures would have taught that lesson to more of us. But apparently recognizing a genocide for what it is is hard still.
They are not treading lightly. They have developed a transactional relationship with the Israeli right, where they get to rebaptise arms sales, domestic islamophobia, and unconditional support for whatever the Israeli right does as a stance against antisemitism. They shamelessly suppress Israeli leftist positions and diaspora jewish leftist positions and call that a stance against antisemitism.
Germany needs to tread lightly indeed, but that can’t be just a blank check to Apartheid Israel. They owe more than one debt, exactly as Namibia has called it out.
If anything, Germany must first establish a national policy of Germany as a safe haven for Jewish people everywhere. If they were serious about their historic debt to their former victims, there should be a right to aliyah to Germany. Get their own shit in order first, then lecture others.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/106aa3ba-370e-46ab-b02f-c404e968e61b.jpeg">
Fuck Israel and the US. I recommend everyone to watch Democracy Now’s piece on this
youtu.be/ztbvvcn0VNc?si=ZoxOgDAANqL4VJp7
Insane what our country is doing and has been repeatedly doing and still wants to do. If you somehow believe that the US is the “good guy” in any sort of circumstance you are completely and objectively incorrect.
You don’t live in a democracy in the slightest.
Plutocracy