US vetoes another UN Security Council resolution seeking Gaza ceasefire
(www.middleeasteye.net)
from Keeponstalin@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 20 Nov 17:56
https://lemmy.world/post/22251888
from Keeponstalin@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 20 Nov 17:56
https://lemmy.world/post/22251888
The measure received 14 votes in favour, with the US the sole member to reject it. However, because the US is a permanent member of the council, it has the ability to veto any resolution brought forward
Unlike several previous resolutions regarding a ceasefire in Gaza, Wednesday’s measure was brought forward by all 10 elected members of the Security Council.
The US has vetoed four previous attempts at calling for a ceasefire in Gaza, on most occasions being the lone vote against the measures.
#world
threaded - newest
This is so odd, I was told only Trump was bad for Palestine, and that he would give Israel a free pass to do whatever it wants.
No one ever told you that, so don’t worry yourself over it.
Nobody has said only Trump would be bad.
The second part is true though.
No more true than the free pass the Dems are giving Israel already. Nothing changes for Palestinians when the Dems are just as complacent and enabling as shown here and many times previously.
I had some commentor reply to me saying Republicans would bring about “accelerated genocide” as the reasoning why Republicans are worse for Palestine than Democrats. It’s weird doublespeak that harkened back to Bush and his “enhanced interrogation” terminology. Apparently “genocide” is fine but “accelerated genocide” is something to fear. To the victims, I’m sure it all looks exactly the same.
Let’s revisit this conversation in 1 year, shall we?
Why because you’d rather waste a year waiting to see whose going to genocide harder instead of demanding it end now?
Nobody ever told you that "only" Trump was bad for Palestine.
If you need to lie to promote your viewpoint, then your viewpoint is shit.
Nobody said that. But now we get Israel with more of a free pass (yes, it can get worse) and “Dr. Oz” running Medicare.
Awesome right? Hope Democrats learned a lesson at least! Or something…
Didn’t you hear? Gaza is SAVED now! YAY! 🤡
It does not get worse, a free pass is a free pass.
Hopefully Democrats learn a lesson, but they seem incapable of that and would rather blame minorities for their loss rather than their policies.
It can always get worse. Have you not seen history?
What absolute pieces of shit. Can’t even bother to do the right thing when it doesn’t even matter anymore.
Why is it wrong to call for the immediate release of the Israeli hostages in Gaza in exchange for a ceasefire? How does the prolonged suffering of the hostages and their families help the people of Gaza in any way? Is a unilateral ceasefire that doesn’t guarantee the immediate return of the hostages “doing the right thing” to you?
Not that it never mattered anyway. The UN doesn’t control whether a ceasefire happens or not, only the Israelis and Palestinians can decide when to lay down their weapons and release the hostages–and that should have happened a fucking year ago.
Stop putting words in other people’s mouths.
The ceasefire is about widescale collective punishment of a population that is half children resulting in famine and genocide. My point is the Biden administration could do the right thing for once instead of enabling it until the bitter end.
I’m not putting words in your mouth…
The US’s stated reason for rejecting the [toothless, unenforceable, bureaucratic, performative] UN ceasefire proposal was that it did not call for the “immediate release of Israeli hostages from Gaza”.
To that end, you said that they “can’t even bother to do the right thing when it doesn’t even matter anymore”, which to me very clearly shows that you believe that it is wrong (or, not right) to reject an agreement that fails to call for the immediate release of the hostages.
In my view, the right thing to do is very, very simple–as simple as it has been for over 13 months: agree to a ceasefire in exchange for the immediate release of all Israeli hostages in Gaza (dead or alive). A unilateral ceasefire that doesn’t guarantee the immediate return of hostages doesn’t make any sense to me, how about you?
It was also “collective punishment” for Hamas to go on a rampage on October 6th, 2023, raping, murdering and kidnapping innocent Israeli civilians, including men, women, children and seniors. Some of these hostages, if they are even still alive, have been held in what kind of horrific conditions for more than a year… Kept in a dungeon, repeatedly tortured, never having seen the light of day for over a fucking year… Something tells me you wouldn’t be so quick to agree to a unilateral ceasefire if someone you loved was held captive for 13 months, now would you?
The US was right to reject this performative political UN bullshit.
You’re so right, a terrorist organization kidnapped civilians after launching a single day invasion via hang glider.
Better not hold the nation state with jet powered aircraft and tanks waging a 400 day invasion to a higher standard than the common terrorist.
Now who’s putting words in other people’s mouths? 😂
If you had a leg to stand on in this discussion you wouldn’t resort to pathetic non sequitur.
Hamas was [supposedly] the legitimately elected government of the Gaza Strip. To think that they could go on a murderous rampage (in which they killed more people in a single day than the Israelis have in any day since then, by the way), take hostages back into Gaza, hide behind innocent women and children like the worthless pathetic Islamist terrorist cowards that they are, and not face the direct consequences of their actions, is a joke.
I guess when you worship a pedophile who spread his ideology through violent genocide (including in historical Gaza), logic and consequence isn’t your strong point.
Still, I don’t understand why you are so dramatically opposed to the idea of releasing the hostages? What’s in it for you that these people are needlessly tortured? Do you think it helps offset the harm against the innocent Gazans?
I’m not opposed to the release of hostages, I think it’s a stupid reason to veto a ceasefire meant to end famine.
No.
This isn't about Hamas or the hostages - it's about the Israeli hard right's desire to utterly destroy the Palestinians and rule over all the land from the river to the sea, and Netanyahu's need to maintain enough support to stay in office and out of prison.
the terrorists should definitely hold onto the israeli hostages then, since as we've seen, that's working out so great for the people of gaza they say they're fighting for, every single day it's working out great. the israeli government is fine with this. great plan.
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
This isnt about the hostages, this is Israel engaging in Genocide to eradicate and forcibly displace the Palestinian people. Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
> Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah. > Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah. - Page 105 > Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. - page 240 >In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million. - Page 402 - The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid. After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted. - Gaza Policy Forum summary: Experts agree that Israel’s dual-use policy causes acute distress >The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human lif
You say that as if the Palestinians don’t have an equal desire to utterly destroy the Israelis and rule over all of the land from the river to the sea.
If I remember correctly it was the pro-Palestinian groups all over the world who were chanting “Palestine shall be free from the river to the sea”, was it not?
At any rate, this is 100% about the hostages, as the US’s reason for voting against this gesture was because it did nothing to call for the immediate release of all Israeli hostages in the Gaza Strip. Why is it wrong to demand that the hostages be freed?
As long as Israel is occupying Palestine they will never be completely be safe.
Bold of you to assume that it would stop if Hamas and Hezbollah ceased to exist.
Bold of you to assume that Hamas and Hazbollah would stop attacking if a ceasefire were agreed to. (See every previous ceasefire over the last 60 years.)
Well, especially if Israel keeps funding Hamas to destabilise and discredit Palestinian effort. Oh wait…
In the meantime, innocent people keep getting killed.
And so, following your circular logic, this supposed ceasefire does what exactly? Clearly it’s just useless bullshit, just as you yourself pointed out.
This centuries long holy war isn’t something that a bunch of Western politicians, UN bureaucrats, and keyboard warriors are going to solve with performative political crap.
How that much isn’t clear to everyone now 13+ months after the October 7th massacre is fucking beyond me…
I’ve never pretended that I’d singlehandedly solve the conflict, but it’s now very clear that the people who have the power to stop the ongoing massacre pretty much instantly, openly choose not to.
A long term solution is also obviously out of reach for roughly the same reason.
As somebody actually living in “Israel” what the hell are you talking about? Bibi and other far right politicians want to occupy Palestine and genocide every Palestinian. I wonder what would happen if the “good” Israeli soldiers stopped massacring civilians or if Bibi offered the Palestinian people anything other then oppression.
The Palestinian resistance will never stop until they get all the land
Except they have already agreed to a two state solution.
What does “Palestine will be free from the river to the sea” mean to you?
Any agreement from the Israelis or Palestinians isn’t worth its weight in shit.
The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he’s not Palestinian.
It doesn’t matter who it was started by or whether the resultant state was democratic or secular, as it is an open proclamation of an intent to wipe Israel off the map. It doesn’t take a geography expert to point out that all of Israel exists between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, does it?
You cannot claim to be anti-genocide if you support wiping Israel off the map.
You cannot claim to support a two-state solution if you support wiping Israel off the map.
Any one-state solution amounts to genocide of the other state, fucking duh.
A two state solution is impossible due to the settlements in the West Bank. Only a One-State Solution with equal rights for both Israelis and Palestinians is possible now
Netanyahu is the one who has explicitly said that ‘from the river to the sea there shall be only Israeli sovereignty’. A direct reference to the ethnic cleansing of all Palestinians.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f7de04d0-46dd-4f8e-910c-30fda8012082.png">
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution - (Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ). How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution ‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Well in that case I guess you’ll be glad to know that a one-state solution seems to be on the horizon–where Israel is the one state that controls the region.
Not my preference, but I don’t make the rules.
It means unless Israel agrees to a two state solution Palestinians will resist to recapture their stolen land.
Hamas accepts Palestinian state with 1967 borders
What makes it their land in the first place, some British mandate written by the same people who created the state of Israel?
100 years ago the entire area was part of the Ottoman Empire, both nations of Israel and Palestine are fabrications.
The fact that they were living there, as their families have been for generations and generations. What gives Zionists the right to ethnically cleanse and forcibly displace them from their homes?
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/297707aa-6945-44fb-928a-bc1525671d5e.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0a86f861-5e1a-4f9a-a87a-d7b997736ac8.jpeg">
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e17df2c0-a9d0-46de-8707-6d4ef0221308.jpeg">
You keep posting these propaganda images every day, is it your job or just a hobby?
At any rate, all your image shows is that there was never a Palestinian nation state to begin with. So again, the question remains “what makes it Palestinian land in the first place?”
By your own admission, this region (home to both the original Israelites, Judea, Hebrews, Philistines, and dozens of other nomadic tribes) has been passed around by empire to empire for thousands of years.
I believe everybody deserves to live a comfortable life. I hate seeing disinformation or bigotry that’s used to justify the extermination of a people or normalize their lives under generations of occupation and Apartheid.
Palestinians have been a people for thousands of years. Recent Palestinian Nationalism is an anti-colonialist movement. They were not an explicit nation-state because there was no need before. That in no way justifies ethnic cleansing. If you want the full story, this book covers the four thousand years of history.
Genuine question: do you repeat the same copy-pasted propaganda so much that you can’t remember having this exact same psedo-historical conversation a few days ago?
You may have infinite energy to repeat the same thing over and over again, but I’m not going to bother with it. Refer to my last correction of the historical record.
Have you stopped posting misinformation? No? Why would the evidence to debunk them change? I’ve already spent plenty of hours aggregating sources to debunk them and they are just as relevant whenever you or anyone else posts the same kind of disinformation.
Yeah when they started killing civilians in an effort to tank the Oslo Accords
So, if you’re living in “Israel” aren’t you actively part of the “genocide” that you’re describing?
The Palestinians are just as responsible for putting shitheads like Sinwar in power as the Israelis are responsible for putting shitheads like Netanyahu in power. Both groups of people have empowered the genocidal extremist warmongers at every opportunity, and y’all want to blame American politicians for the sad state of the nations that were handed to you on a silver platter by the League of Nations after the fall of the Ottoman Empire?
As someone actually living in “The United States of America”, I’m sick and tired of my democracy and tax dollars being held hostage because of your problems, and I ain’t the only one.
As an American, aren’t you actively part of Trumps attacks on minorities?
Can I blame you for the “war on terror” and every other American crime against humanity?
If no, why is this person to blame for Israel? If yes, well at least you’re consistent.
It was a rhetorical question.
IF one believes that Israel has no right to exist as a nation (anti-zionists) and that the land was stolen from the Palestinians (which, historically speaking isn’t even true, because there was never a unified Palestinian nation until the Mandate for Palestine), then logic simply follows that by living in that “occupied Palestinian land” you are “an occupier”, does it not?
Your specific analogies to that are bad, because you can live in America without participating in Trump’s policies or the “war on terror”.
A better American analogy would be to say that everyone who lives in America is complicit in benefiting from the genocide of the Native Americans, whose historically inhabited these lands. And in that case, yes, we Americans are just as guilty as benefiting from the actual genocide of the Native Americans to the hypothetical “genocide” of the Palestinians.
In other words, IF one believes that Americans are unjustly living on occupied Native American lands, then I am guilty of that, just as all Americans are. That’s not a political statement, it’s a logical one.
And yet, you don’t hear anyone sane calling for the entirety of the United States to be returned to the Native Americans, because history doesn’t work that way. The best Americans and Native Americans can hope for today is peaceful coexistence, equal treatment under the law, and a mutually beneficial society that acknowledges the wrongs of the past while working towards a better shared future.
Personally I believe in a peaceful two-state solution in which both Israel and Palestine can not just exist, but thrive harmoniously as neighbors destined to live in the same culturally and religiously significant slice of land. But unfortunately the people currently in charge, like Netanyahu and Hamas, do not think that way, and under Trump I believe there will be an unmitigated, scorched earth, full-fat genocide of Gaza Strip and probably the West Bank too.
There have always been pathways to peace, but they rely on the good faith actions of Israel and Palestine far more than anyone else.
When did I mention America? I said Israeli politicians suck and in addition I’m actively trying to leave (not easy)
🤔
Bruh
Lame duck presidency and can’t even do the right thing
Ducks aren’t even this lame
Shows he and the Democratic leaders never intended to end the genicide. Just another sign the democrats no longer support anyone but the oligarchy. Yes the Republicans are worse by alot but people that are anti genicide, anti oligarchy, anti fascism, anti authoritarianism, etc don’t have a party to vote for. Only the level of oppression they will see in the next 4 years.
Imagine a person having to choose between losing 2 of their limbs or losing all 4 limbs.
Democrats are basically the ones wanting to cut off 2 of your limbs
Republicans want to cut off all your limbs.
Thats what is is. I mean I voted against the party that wants to cut off 4 of my limbs, but I’m just sad that there isn’t a party (that can actually win elections) that is saying “we don’t cut off any of your limbs”.
As long as you keep voting limb cutters, they have no motivation to stop cutting limbs. Not voting for limb cutters is the only way to make non limb cutting get on the ballot
“Two limbs is just as bad as 4 limbs, so I choose 4 limbs!”
You do realize that there is more than one election? Like every four years there is an election. Treating every election like it is the only one and never looking past the immediate effects for the next year is what brought this mess in the first place.
This is also why this comparison is bad. You can not only loose at this election, but the next one and the one after that amd the one after that. In fact one could argue Americans have been loosong every election to the neoliberals since a few decades. And why? Because you never made a point of getting one party to stop being neoliberals.
This election made me realize that political affiliation in the states for a lot of people is like being in a cult. Rather than accepting that your side has issues and needs a change, people just try to justify it by pointing how bad the other side can be worse. Like 90% of lemmy democrats don’t get that I’m not motivated to vote for being waist-deep in shit vs chest-deep in shit. Yes, one is worse than another, but I prefer to vote so I don’t have to be in shit at all. But all they will say back is hurr durr trump bad.
I feel like we need to normalize that demanding more from representatives is OK and necessary for a functioning democracy. The party needs to respond to the demands of those they are supposed to represent. This election made it clear that they only care about the demands of the donors and that needs to change
Not for nothing, but where is this two limb option? All I see is four limb options except one is grinning and clapping the other is just wearing a false look of commiseration.
“I would only have the time to save 2 of the 4 childrens in the burning house so I might as well not save any of the children.”
That is a valid position if you intend to use that time to make it so that children don't need to burn every election.
Now imagine next election one person is threatening to kill 4 children and the other team 6. Well obviously we should save 4! Then next election, we have to kill 6, so we don’t vote for the person killing 8. And so on. That’s how we got in this predicament.
Me: why orphan crushing machine?
You: because other orphan crushing machine driven by Nazies.
Me: but why don’t we destroy orphan crushing machine?
You: because orphan crushing machine go burrrrrrrrr
Me:…
Come back when there is an option that actually destroys the orphan crushing machines. Otherwise your just pouring more fuel into it and making it work faster.
The right thing is to enact a ceasefire in exchange for the immediate release of all Isreali hostages.
The US was right to veto this unenforceable, performative UN bullshit on the grounds that it didn’t call for the immediate release of the hostages.
It’s a fucking genocide. Stop the killing sort the hostages after.
“Sort” the hostages “after” what?
So in your imagination Israel unilaterally stops fighting against Hamas while (a) Hamas continues to hold civilians hostage, doing all manners of physical and psychological torture to people who only happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and (b) Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran and tribal gangs continue to wage attacks against Israel? And then (and only then), Israel comes back to the negotiating table with Hamas once again for yet another round of negotiations to try to free the hostages, only for Hamas to decide to move the goalposts?
Is this really the type of illogical nonsense people here believe in?
No wonder this shit has been going on for decades… Y’all have lost your damn minds if you think that the world works this way.
Stop the genocide. Stop the killing of innocent civilians. Now.
Then, reach a deal for the hostages, like the ones Netanyahu has repeatedly shot down.
Then, end the occupation: get Israel the fuck out of Gaza, the fuck out of the West Bank, the fuck out of East Jerusalem, back to their 1967 borders.
Or, if you don’t think this is realistic (and it isn’t because with almost a million settlers, the Israeli right has destroyed the material conditions required for the 2 state solution) prefer cleaner solutions, end Jewish supremacy in Greater Israel (Israel+West Bank+Gaza+Golan+Shebaa). One state, one democracy, equal rights for everyone.
Persecute all war criminals, Israeli and Palestinian. Then run a truth and reconciliation process, with reparations.
Justice, right? Crazy, I know. Illogical shit.
Here’s the catch: without justice there will be no peace. Enjoy your endless cycle of violence.
There is no “justice” in any circumstances in which the hostages are not immediately returned.
So you’re literally just confirming this:
You must have read “Art of the Deal”.
Yes this totally all makes a genocide completely reasonable and acceptable. Genociding the local population, that’s true justice innit?
If you could argue against what I said you wouldn’t resort to putting words in my mouth, mate.
And if you could read you would know that both Israelies and Palestinians are the “local population” with somewhat dubious historic claims over the land spanning back >3000 years.
Need I remind you that it was the British that drew the maps that have lead us to where we are today?
Explain why Israeli lives matter more than Palestinian lives. Like, be precise.
Who said they are? Only you so far.
You should be more precise with your weird, non sequitur questions.
You keep only talking about 97 Israelis when tens of thousands of Palestinians are dead and countless other are maimed, injured, starved, disposessed. You obviously value those 97 lives more than any of that. Explain why.
It’s cynical and frankly fucking disgusting that you view human lives as nothing more than numbers.
Is this just numbers to you? Is that how you quantify the value of human life?
If so, you are beyond help and reasoning.
Nothing can be done for the thousands of people on both sides of this conflict who have been tragically killed in a pointless war, but that does no mean that the people who can be saved right now, today, shouldn’t be. I want the immediate release of the hostages, because 1 innocent person taken hostage and tortured for months in an injustice to people everywhere. I want a ceasefire because 1 innocent person killed in a pointless holy war is an injustice to people everywhere.
The real question, and the one to which I can only guess your disgusting answer, is why you don’t…
Two scenarios for what happens TONIGHT.
Scenario 1, no ceasefire: the genocide continues, several Palestinians die tonight. The hostages remain hostages. No chance of release. They might get bombed by mistake even.
Scenario 2, no-deal ceasefire: genocide ends, no Palestinians die tonight. The hostages remain hostages. No chance of them being killed by mistake. A chance for a political settlement where they get released.
Do you see the fucking difference?
Scenario 3, hostages freed as part of ceasefire deal: fighting stops, hostages freed.
You wouldn’t think it was acceptable that “the hostages remain hostages” if they were people you cared about. Do you not see the fucking difference?
The scenario that will ultimately win is Scenario 1, the hostages will not be released and the war will continue. It’ll only get worse when Trump gets into office, so sit back and enjoy existing in the calm before the storm.
Israel can enact Scenario 2 unilaterally, immediately, tonight, regardless of what Hamas thinks, wants, or does. Tonight. Right now. EDIT: And before you smarmily say that Hamas can also release the hostages unilaterly, a reminder that Israel is conducting a genocide (the generals’ plan) in Northern Gaza, regardless of what Hamas does. EDIT2: And also let’s not forget that Israel makes claims of being a democratic western country, whereas Hamas is a totalitarian islamist bag of shits. So no, they are not the fucking same.
You keep putting hostages being ALIVE hostages above Palestinian kids being DEAD kids.
And by the fucking way, my dude, Israel is holding thousands of Palestinian hostages as well. Anything to say about those? Ostensibly, the only rational part of Sinwar’s otherwise deranged “masterplan” was to do a hostage exchange. Do Palestinian hostages matter to you, my dude? Any pearl clutching for the kids in “administrative detention” or “convicted” by IDF military kangaroo courts with 99% conviction rates?
I hate to break it to you but any hostages are most likely dead. Probably killed by the IDF themselves. The people of Gaza are also starving to death. You think POW’s are getting first dibs? They won’t agree to release them because there aren’t any alive.
I could be wrong but there’s my 2 cents.
Return the bodies then.
Frankly I hope that they are dead, because the idea of living in a dungeon under Gaza being raped and tortured every day for 13 months is horrific.
And if Hamas has lost track of even the hostages bodies then I don’t envy them, because it seems that they’ve lost what little bargaining position they once had. Uh oh for them.
Wtf is wrong with these people. I only voted for them bcz the alternative is a fascist piece of shit. I fucking hate this country.
Is it so wrong to demand the immediate release of Israeli hostages in Gaza in exchange for an immediate ceasefire?
That seems like a reasonable agreement to me. The innocent people of Gaza have derived absolutely no benefit from having Israeli civilians being taken captive, maimed, raped and tortured for over 13 months. Release the damn hostages and end the bloodshed.
I’m not a US citizen, but I can understand why some people didn’t wanna vote this time.
Even though Trump might be worse than Biden when it comes to this conflict, how can anyone vote for Kamala knowing that the death of more innocents will be on their conscience?
it’s like the trolley problem. would you rather have more people die or a smaller but still sizable amount of people die? unfortunately in America there are only 2 viable candidates.
And so every third party voter is vindicated.
Despite the knee-jerk reaction from uninformed people here, they were absolutely right to veto it.
Any ceasefire deal should obviously demand the immediate release of every remaining Israeli hostage.
There is simply no justification for the withholding of these hostages who have been tortured and raped in Palestinian captivity for >13 months. The civilians of Gaza do NOT benefit from the continued torture of Israeli civilian hostages, so what is the rationale for not calling for their immediate release? Release the damn hostages, and only then can we have a meaningful path towards a ceasefire.
The release of all the hostages has always been a part of the ceasefire negotiations, that has never changed. Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
We’ve had mixed reports of treatment of Israeli hostages by Hamas (1, 2, 3) We know of at least one instance of sexual assault and rape, multiple accounts of abuse, how widespread it is we won’t know until all the hostages are released, which Israel has been preventing.
Israel does torture, rape, and kill Palestinians (including children), and has been for decades.
Palestinian Prisoners in Israeli Prisons
Palestinians are jailed without charge, forced into false confessions, routinely tortured, raped, denied medical attention, and some killed as a result. This includes hundreds of children. Palestinians denied civil rights (HRW) including Military Court (B’TSelem) Palestinian Prisoners in Israel (wiki) Children are jailed and abused in Israeli prisons (Save The Children) Torture and Abuse in Interrogations (B’TSelem) Thousands of Palestinians are held without charge under Israeli detention policy (NPR) Urgently investigate inhumane treatment and enforced disappearance of Palestinians detainees from Gaza (Amnesty) Israel/OPT: Horrifying cases of torture and degrading treatment of Palestinian detainees amid spike in arbitrary arrests (Amnesty) <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4d709e58-ac5c-463d-8bb9-3c062ce7d5d8.jpeg">
This isnt about the hostages to the Israeli Government, this is Israel engaging in Genocide to eradicate and forcibly displace the Palestinian people. Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.
Human Shields
Hamas: - HRW on Laws-of-War Violations 2009 - Agency Demands Full Respect for the Sanctity of Its Premises in Gaza - July 2014 - HRW - Palestinian Armed Groups’ October 7 Assault on Israel > Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from mi
Netenyahu refused the release of all hostages multiple times
Anyone who can’t see America’s true colours by now is simply refusing to look