Senior IDF officers admit 'uncalculated' fire on Gaza aid seekers after Haaretz expose
(www.haaretz.com)
from RandAlThor@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 30 Jun 15:56
https://lemmy.ca/post/47133390
from RandAlThor@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 30 Jun 15:56
https://lemmy.ca/post/47133390
According to officers of the Israeli military’s Southern Command, the shelling was aimed at maintaining order at food distribution sites, but the army has since shifted to “other methods.”
Archive article: archive.ph/R0IP4
#world
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Why do they need guns? They are starving, is that not evil enough?
Not evil enough for the idf
Ah yes, the shelling of a desperate crowd to bring order. Makes sense… /s
My god this makes my brain hurt from the dissonance. Pigs
I don’t see what the big deal is.
I regularly launch artillery strikes on the local food bank to make sure everything is orderly and safe.
They only meant to drop shells near the aid stations, to keep the bad guys away. Gazans should make quantum leaps from where they are to inside the aid stations, without passing through the space near the aid stations. Duh.
What in the parabolic FUCK are they talking about?! Beyond being a nauseating atrocity, the IDF statement is c/noncredibledefense levels of war-as-satire. There is no stockade big enough. The common 120mm mortar has a lethal radius of 30m from the point of impact, and has been given a 10% probability of ‘incapacitation’ at 100m. A common M795 155m high explosive howitzer shell will generally have a ‘kill radius’ of 50m, with fragmentation spreading significantly further.
In Freedom Units, if one of those 155s hit the middle of a football field, everyone on the field is dead, and everyone in the stadium catches shrapnel.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/972821d9-0774-4b82-b038-18609dadd7b4.jpeg">
by Joep Bertrams
*war crimes
artillery fire as a method of crowd control?
Translation error, I think the actual term was “blowing up starving civilians”
More like population control.
Also notice how the long distance, chaotic distribution, and heavy aid boxes force families to self-select their strongest person, who would also be most able to put up a fight to defend their family. Then the IDF is gunning them down when they’re in the chute, leaving starving women and children that are easily disposed of.
You can go to prison for the duration of the service instead of participating in genocide. Anyone who doesn’t do that is actively choosing to commit genocide.
It’s genuinely not that easy and ruins your future chances of having a good life. Just the fact alone that the jail time is looped as long as you refuse to serve IDF, ending your jail time with another draft is… dark.
Getting shot in a breadline also ruins your future chances at a good life. Being bombed in your hospital bed ruins your future chances of having a good life. Do you deny the genocide in Gaza?
I don’t understand why you keep asking me that question and I keep having to answer yes for you to stop going offtopic
Because you keep begging for sympathy towards those who choose to commit genocide. You are pretending like there is some moral quandary here where none exists.
Begging for sympathy? More like making sure you and this website does not get flagged as an extremist place with no moderation, seeing the same fate as multiple chans and freedom boards. Me wanting others to stop acting like extremists does not equal me defending IDF. You being a piece of shit towards the group whose opinion you want to change ruins your own chances of swaying said people’s opinions.
Military does not drop flyers saying “death to you”, they drop flyers saying “stop serving the army and we will help you”.
Still not getting my point? Damn I’m too European for this platform
Most Europeans don’t sympathize with genociders.
Exactly, which is why I’m showing a clear disgust towards the people calling for (another) genocide. You. Hypocrisy is flying over your head.
EDIT: Over time I’ve realized that this place is more hateful than 4chan. It’s fucking weird when reddit alternative can make 4chan look good. Y’all are losing the plot and I don’t see good future for lemmy with you people constantly challenging the fate.
Most of the traffic from 4chan was from Israel.
No one in this thread has called for genocide.
The IDF is a criminal terrorist organization. Participation in it is morally reprehensible. If in order to have a good life you have to murder children standing in bread lines then your idea of a good life is not worth preserving.
Lmao I’m stopping her and not even bothering with rest, because my entire argument today is against people doing hate speech that can be interpreted by others who want to take down lemmy as calls for genocide against Jewish population
The IDF is not an ethnic group. Your sad attempts at claiming otherwise betray your obvious bigotry.
You, an European, can join US army once you get the green card. That will never happen with IDF as it’s for an ethnic group. Look up who can serve in IDF. Palestinians or non-Jewish (including Arabic) people living in Israel are not really allowed in IDF
I don’t see how that’s relevant. There are plenty of Jews that aren’t in the IDF. Most of them, in fact.
If a group is allowed to be from only one ethnic group, that makes the group…?
A racist army.
You… could argue that lol
Do you truly, honestly believe that people shooting starving kids in bread lines are morally conflicted about the genocide they are committing? Nobody is forcing them to shoot at bread lines. They choose to do it.
I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about generalization. Not all black people are thieves, you know? Plenty of people from IDF have spoken up and plenty of jewish people have been protesting against everything that’s happening. My point was simply that calling for mass execution of a group of people makes you morally questionable too.
You can’t just ignore the genocide because it makes your point weak.
Black people are born black and cannot change that. Jews are born that way and cannot change it. Nobody is born in the IDF.
What? You literally make no sense, because my point was about genocide. You calling for genocide against a group doing the genocide when said group is also full of people who were forced into IDF and constantly help the media and world see what’s truly going on does not make you the morally highest creature.
Americans don’t scream “Death to police”, they scream “Defund the police”. Your choice of words would make you a fine addition to ranking officers of IDF, you get my point?
Do you think it’s too extreme to say ‘death to nazis’?
Depends what you mean by that. If you mean nazi germany, then yes, killing entire nation because of corrupt leadership is bad, okay? Are we clear on that? The WW2 result was better than what some of you would have done to the Germans. Don’t become the person you hate.
You can answer your own question but by changing roles - Can people yell “Kill Palestinians” because of corrupt Hamas leadership? Do you see how stupid that question is?
EDIT: Are you guys acting stupid on purpose?
<img alt="" src="https://infosec.pub/pictrs/image/b41726fd-ff7a-47ff-bdfd-42f0eabf597b.jpeg">
But they aren’t saying death to Israelis when saying death to the IDF. You have to understand the difference between wishing for genocide upon a group of people and wishing for the end of an institution that does nothing but harm and bad.
It’s also worth noting that the only right thing to do for a member of the IDF is to fight the IDF.
They are morally obligated to tear down the infrastructure of genocide that they are a part of. The only good IDF soldier is the one who is working in earnest to oppose the IDF. All of the rest of them are cowardly garbage human beings who should probably go to the Hague.
A tremendous number of them probably should be hung until death and then buried at sea with no ceremony. People who do what they do should have even their memories killed.
Again, IDF is mandatory for nearly every Israeli citizen. It’s not some random institute, it’s core part of Israeli country. And again, for the xth time, my point is about choice of words. I’m not arguing against dissolving of IDF, i’m arguing against lemmy users doing screwed up hate speech which puts this entire platform’s future existence on a question line.
It’s not hate speech to hate the military of a genocidal apartheid state.
The fact that the military of that state uses conscription to smear shit on everybody who grows up there does not absolve the population from their moral obligation to oppose their government.
Just following orders is a really poor excuse for genocide. You can hate the IDF without calling for genocide. In fact I haven’t heard anybody call for genocide in any of these threads except for people supporting the IDF.
Where are you from?
Children are being slaughtered in the thousands by a genocidal regime and you’re here spending most of your day tone policing the negative response to it. Speaks volumes about what you stand for
???
So wait, you want me to support more genocides and deaths of children, or what exactly are you saying?
Provide an example of a child serving in the IDF
That would be pretty damning in its own right, right? What is this dude even trying to argue?
It seems like concern trolling. “I’m just worried that people will interpret you hating on this genocidal military as if it’s exactly the same thing as calling for the death of an ethnic group because only that ethnic group is allowed to participate in this genocidal military!”
It’s such a bizarre argument
Except you keep making shit up from thin air. I never said such things, you said them as a strawman argument.
Speaking of making shit up: provide an example of a child serving in the IDF.
Uhh, what?
I said calling for death against entire IDF is extremism, which basically equals to calls for genocide (falls under the definition).
You calling for such action means there is no IDF. Israel with no defence means they will get overrun and obliterated by everyone around. This includes large amounts of children. When that happens, nations around the world (especially US) will join the war, which will see even more children deaths. This is basic common sense, chain of thought thinking and geopolitics 101.
Maybe, just maybe, we should all calm the fuck down instead of becoming them, but that isn’t really my point here, I simply want lemmy users to realize they’re being watched. Be careful with your choice of words.
🤭
Concern trolling is exactly what they’re doing, you nailed it. Yet another page out of the zio playbook.
Damn, you’re so smart, totally decrypted me. I guess wanting for lemmy to not get on their radar and become ruined by bad media attention is now zionism. Oh well, gotta shave my hair now, or whatever the fuck they’re doing with their heads. Anyway, back to my eastern european rural cabin to spread more zionism
I take it to mean “disband” the IDF
if the extreme right can be loose with the meaning of words, so can we
Why are you defending baby killers
Why are you missing basic comprehension skills?
IDF is an institute, you can wish its demise without it being understood as death to all conscripted Israelis. Putting aside that as a settler-colonial project founded on ethnic cleansing, no one in Israel is innocent, only varying degrees of culpability. Even more so when they have been constantly voting for extremist and genocidal politicians, and the one prime minister that was willing to make peace with the Palestinians got assassinated.
Would you morally object to “Death to the Hitler Youth”? how about “Death to Nazis”?
How do you feel about churches being bombed and Christians being killed by the IDF?
Similarly, this doesn’t imply death to all residents of the USA some of which are Muslims.
Not sure why you’re asking me that. I’m not from a christian country and I generally don’t have a favourable opinion towards religions in general.
All in all, your comments and knowledge seems to be full of holes.
For example:
No, Netanyahu did not win the popular vote like Trump in US, he only got something like 20%.
“Death to Russians” is not an equivalent phrase to wishing death to the military and you know that. And don’t start on the mandatory service shit. Every citezen has the option of 1. Taking some jail time 2. Converting to Ultraorthadox Judaism or 3. Leaving Israel. There’s no excuse to join the baby killer Brigade we call the IDF.
I honestly don’t know the short for Russian army, everyone just says Russians here. I still meant the same thing as army is now mandatory in Russia.
Plenty of people did abandon their lives and families and moved to a country they can’t even speak in, but it’s not an easy choice by any means.
He said death to the idf not death to israelis. So your example is trash. I am sure you are ok with russians soldiers dying in ukraine
There is barely any difference as IDF is mandatory amongst Israeli people
Same with nazis . Mandatory or not it is valid to kill soldiers in wars
Bruh… why does everyone keep missing my point. Are you all chatbots? Yes, it is completely fine to kill soldiers in a war, that was never the argument here, but I do have to keep confirming your strawman arguments. It is, however, not fine to call for death against millions of people who were forced by their own leadership to do these things and turned everything around once the leadership, not people, were forced away.
Nobody is calling for killing millions of israelies . Again it is you who keep missing the point
Of course. I’m also ok with Israelis dying in Palestine. You guys are seriously missing my point.
You are the one missing the point. The only place where idf dies is in palestine
I’m seriously talking with bunch of hateful fanatics here, aren’t I? Some of your comments borderline sounds like religious chants and I’m noticing the same kind of conversational intelligence when I’m talking with my animal parrot.
Again, you completely missed my point and I have no clue what you even meant by that bizzare text. So IDF can’t die when attacking Iran or Syria?
In wars soldiers dies . The invaded has the right to self defense so yeah in Iran and Syria they can die. Are you telling me international law makers was fanatics when they gave right to armed resistance to the occupied?
Dude, you were the one who said that the only place where IDF dies is Palestine, not me. That sentence is very bizzare, as if IDF can’t die elsewhere
Wtf is this place? Are you people even human?
EDIT: Holy shit, I might actually be onto something. Not the guy above (simply poor english), but after going thru some profiles, there is a clear pattern of continuously repeating comments in different forms constantly being posted by the same profiles. I also noticed that every single comment on my profile got hit with downvotes, even going back months on comments that were highly upvoted (humor) just recently. The bot activity is real
The war in syria ended. Hizbollah isn’t retaliating right now for israel not respecting the cease fire. Do yeah the only place where idf can die is in palestine where internalional law give them the right to fight back.
You the guy who spread israeli lies and keep defending their war crimes and never condemn any killing of palestinians
You are the fanatic not us
So… You’re saying no one died inside the Israel from Iran’s rockets? Are you saying no one died from years of rocket launches inside Israel from Palestine? No servicemen died during Oct 7 attacks? Wtf are you saying?
Also, Israel is still at war with Syria, officially there has not been peace decleration, but there’s progress
timesofisrael.com/israel-in-advanced-talks-for-de…
No , i never said that. Again the war with iran ended. And iran had the right to response to isreel agression by targetting building connected to the military. Military target are valid in war. Death to civilians is unacceptable and death to combattant is
Remind me, where did most of the Iran’s rockets dropped? Could it be city centre by any chance?
On military targets. That’s why there was a strict censorship in israel. They only allowed israeli to film collateral damage to civilians
Israel been ignoring international law since it creation why do you never condemn that?
There are hundreds of videos available of the blasts that I myself went thru, some straight up close ups. Tf are you hallucinating?
Did anyone ask me to do that? I missed such request, but sure, like I said 30 times before, I condemn what Israel is doing.
I didn’t say that there is no civilians building that was hit. There also a million more time videos of injured kids coming from gaza
Since you admit here that Israel committing war crimes , whatever you realize it or not , it give the right to Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine to kill idf soldiers when they invade an attack those countries
Of course, this is also what I’ve said before.
Now, can we get back to my original argument that everyone seems to be ignoring? Calling for deaths of millions of people, or simply calling for genocide is bad. Do you agree?
If so, do you think some lemmy users are putting huge risk on entire lemmy platform due to their choice of words, especially if we get on their radar and media suddenly starts rolling out pieces that lemmy is extremism and hate breeding platform that needs to be shut down? Are you finally understanding my point? I don’t know how to make this more obvious, but I’m not defending IDF, I’m defending lemmy from seeing the same fate as other freedom boards and bunch of chans. There seriously needs to be a reddit competitor, but I do not see lemmy suceeding with the way things are going
I didn’t ignore it and i will repeat it as much as needed. The chant do not call for killing millions of jews it’s a call for Palestinians right to kill the invaders in war. The only place where idf soldiers are getting killed is in Palestine now and the circumstances where IDF get kill is in wars.
I have yet to see anybody here saying there is no civilians in Israel. We also don’t give a damn about the media who support occupation and genocide
So why not chant exactly what Europeans are chanting - kill the invaders (Or kill occupiers)? Why target a group by it’s name so often, loudly and inna way that could be easily misinterpreted by anyone who wants to hurt Lemmy?
Because the chant is posted in context of palestine and the idf is the invader in that case. How hard is that to understand?
How hard is it for you to understand that “kill the invaders” sounds far, far more acceptable for everyone who isn’t hot-heated, including media, than “Death to IDF”? How do you plan on swaying the opinions of people being enrolled into IDF when your argument is “Death to you just because IDF, no matter if you do tech work or aid protection”, instead of talking about the real issue, which is invaders?
Don’t tell people how they should express the same idea with different words
I will because unlike you, I want long term sustainability for lemmy. With people like you around, that will be hard.
Your dumbest argument yet
Says the guy capable of only talking about Israel/Palestine. I doubt you even fully managed to process my argument, not sure if you’re capable of that. You’re essentially the redditor everyone complains about, constantly pissing people off by plugging your political opinions everywhere and then forcing others to express them too
Go back to reddit where you can defend israel without any pretense. You think you smart but everybody know who you are.
I am only pissing scummy people like you
Yeah, my argument definitely went over your head if you just asked me to go argue politics on reddit… just, damn. I don’t even give a shit about Israel or Palestine (but obviously morals tell me Israel is in the wrong), that’s the brutal truth, I’m literally living next to russia under Russian threats of invasion, why tf would I spend my energy arguing middle east. I just want people to stop talking so dangerously and stop being so political everywhere
You are an hypocrite. If you don’t care about the conflict simply never interact with post about it and don’t make excuses to israel then claim to be against israel. You have many comments removed for genocide apologia and repeat israeli propaganda like the use of human shields. We know very well that is israel who use palestinians as human shield since 2002
Dude, please stop being stupid. I repeated multiple times that I’m not defending Israel and that this isn’t really about politics in general, but rather lemmy and the damage it could bring. I repeated that so many times I lost count, but you still assume wild things and then start coming at me based on your own hallucinations. I almost never interact with said threads anyway, but that sentence that essentially could get lemmy on black lists triggered me. Don’t ruin it for everyone.
Death, death to the IOF!
they were protecting the crowd from the Oxycodone laced flour they hand out
Death death to the idf