from babysandpiper@sopuli.xyz to world@lemmy.world on 30 Jun 11:06
https://sopuli.xyz/post/29662340
“I’ve been warned not to talk about it,” the woman wrote, before revealing snippets of the day she says she was arrested for publishing gay erotica.
“I’ll never forget it - being escorted to the car in full view, enduring the humiliation of stripping naked for examination in front of strangers, putting on a vest for photos, sitting in the chair, shaking with fear, my heart pounding.”
The handle, Pingping Anan Yongfu, is among at least 8 in recent months which have shared accounts on Chinese social media platform Weibo of being arrested for publishing gay erotic fiction. As authors recounted their experiences, dozens of lawyers offered pro bono help.
At least 30 writers, nearly all of them women in their 20s, have been arrested across the country since February, a lawyer defending one told the BBC. Many are out on bail or awaiting trial, but some are still in custody. Another lawyer told the BBC that many more contributors were summoned for questioning.
#world
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Ah yes, this is the democracy some people talk about
You forgot to put quotes around democracy.
Authoritarians gonna authoritarian regardless of economic model.
It’s funny though, because despite some leftover socialist aesthetic its hard to get more capitalist. I mean it’s pretty obvious state capitalism. You can’t have billionaires 80 years into your “socialist project”.
Don’t be silly, democracy is only when private companies do all encompassing AI powered surveillance.
archive.md/buuA6
Don’t Chinese private mega corporations do this too?
Chinese corporations do only what government allows them to do, any more and the CEO “takes an extended vacation”.
Well yeah and the government really wants to pry into every aspect of your life. So you’ll have the same shit
Now we only need to find a source of how many lgbtq+ fiction writers have been arrested in those same countries and we can proceed with the comparison.
Democracies can also ban porn. See: South Korea, India, Ukraine, Malaysia, Singapore, Mongolia, etc…
Its a conservatism issue.
You can add about a third of the USA at this post as well.
The future is here.
The future of our countries, if we don’t act and stop conservativism.
I know nothing about Chinese child care, but reading that the government wishes for more child rearing, might it be that there are other systemic problems like no access to child care facilities, a culture that doesn’t value women and people exhausted by long work days? I might have read that this is part of the root cause in korea. But sure, some gay novels might also be the reason for significant numbers. Overall the Chinese are somewhat known for pragmatic approaches, why chasing illusions in this case? The total number of readers and writers can’t be that huge can’t it?
Maybe still effects of the one-child-policy times. It’s probably much easier to punish people for having too many children than it is to incentivise having more.
Probably enlightened despotism giving way to regular despotism. Facing economic problems, and having shed all pretense of being socialist, the Chinese ruling class likely needs a scapegoat for the country's troubles.
Sounds plausible, crazy how that always works
This reflects a typical right wing approach to “increasing birthrates”: Reinforcing “”““traditional family values””“”, vilifying defiance of gender norms and addressing anything but the root cause.
Chinese child care is the adults going to work and the older generation (the grandparents) take care of the child.
Or sometimes my mother brought me to her workplace and I just sat there playing a video game on the portable dvd player thing with the games loaded on a dvd (or a cd, idk the difference) and with controllers attached to it. (She worked at an electronics store as a salesperson).
My parents were in an arranged marriage (the consensual type, I think, but there was high pressures to enter into a marriage), and they argue a lot.
When we first immigrated to the US, my maternal grandparents weren’t part of the “immediate” family, so they weren’t allowed on the immigration visa, my paternal side of the family (who are already in the US) didn’t like the responsibility of taking care of us (unlike my maternal side of the family), so my older brother who was around age 13-15 at the time when we first arrived, had to pick me up from school, and he resented having this responsibility, my brother didn’t really like me, we were frienemies (now, present day, actual enemies).
But eventually, like around 6th grade I just walked home by myself. Most of the time, the house was empty (other than my brother). I barely talked with my parents, never had real emotional connections with them.
Childcare in China isn’t that different from the US. (Well… in the US, kids get like a small child credit in their parent’s tax returns, and some food stamps, but that’s about it) The lower class is really very similar regardless of country. We the lower class people have more in common with each other than we do with the rich that runs our respective countries.
(If you are confused at the “Older Brother” part, my mother “illegally” gave birth to me. Then they sterilized her to make sure she can’t violate the one child policy again. I was literally not even supposed to be born.)
Crazy amount of side information you have there. The sterilisation part is wild, i had the impression that the one child policy was only very scarcely enforced anyway and people had less kids due economics
Here in germoney there are church, state and private run kindergartens where you drop off your child 6 to 12 hours, they are not super easily available in big cities bit its a widely available system
I mean whats the alternative? Everyone lives in some big city but grandparents usually remain in the old desolated villages. Confining women to a life as care taker for at least 6 years?
Not that wild. 150 years ago, during imperial rule, you get your head chopped off along with your close relatives for criticizing the emperor, this is tame in comparison.
Its a stark contrast, night and day, on how much society has progressed.
I cant speak about all of China, but of the 6 cities Ive been to, each had far more accessible child-care-related facilities than the US, from schools within walking distance of tower blocks to more parks and infrastructure/personnel to help kids get there without crossing busy roads, to massive libraries with play places, movie theaters, family restaurants, to tiny amusement parks.
I dare say that that’s probably not the cause why women today want to have no or fewer children.
I suspect it’s more about economic factors, such as the prospect of having a stable job for the next 40 years, and the prospect of stability that this brings. Society changes so rapidly that it would be absurd to think that people are still gonna have well-paying jobs in 40 years. We’re already seeing a Cost-of-Living crisis today, or rather, a crisis of jobs not paying a living wage. That’s only gonna get more severe over time.
Compare that to other cultures around the world (consider developing countries such as rural africa was 30+ years ago, and medieval europe). They had rough lifes and often didn’t value women. But they had Stability: They could be reasonably certain that their living conditions should be roughly the same in 40+ years from now, so they can have some children. If they can feed them today, the children will be able to feed themselves in 40 years. Because society was static like that.
This will eventually be the U.S. if we don’t stop the erosion. Right now they are going after trans, brown people. They will turn attention after to others.
This article has nothing to do with the United States and did not need a US centric comment.
This article serves as a warning against authoritarianism and should be discussed in every context.
This will happen in your country as well if you are not aware of it’s typical process and spread.
Which is funny because I think most conservative and religious politicians are actually into gay sex.
Man, it’s wild to see them go from one-child to this in a single generation.
The machine needs meat
Overcorrection in policy is not uncommon in authoritarian regimes. I’d imagine because policy carries the threat of imprisonment, not just guidance.
I generally want to have sex with my husband after reading erotica. You know, because it’s arousing. How did this not occur to them?
How many straight men do you know who have a sound grasp on women’s sexuality?
It’s the same among “Conservatives” in the US, Russia, and now apparently China.
They all say that we’d need “high birth rates”, which is just not true.
Think about it: Automation and AI have the potential to put lots of people into unemployment in the next 20 years. For the sake of preventing that unemployment, it’d be good if people had fewer kids. Yet for some reason, governments struggle really hard to comprehend that simple connection.
Because they assume all people will be consumers of goods. So if they have more people, there will be more consumers to buy things.
Now the assumption falls apart in any rigor since automation means that less people are needed for labor and would have money to buy gods. But that requires a government that thinks beyond the limited lifetimes of those running the government.
Jesus I thought there might have been some bullshit pretense, but apparently it’s just straight-up illegal there.
China is not the West, haha. There’s a reason we’re suspicious of them.
But .ml communities promise meChina has mote free speech than the West! How is this possible?
/s
It’s really weird and kinda reddit-like to see a human rights violation and twist the story to be about some online community.
This isn’t about some online community as much as it is a comment on tankies.
Yes, that’s exactly what they’re talking about and you’re being extremely weird in making it a priority of discussion on something at best tangentially related.
It’s just a straw man writ large because you’re miffed at another online argument you had somewhere else.
We are referring to the staunch defenders of the oppressive system which this thread is about, defenders who are very proactive on lemmy. The fact that you cannot see the relevance is on you.
Just because you feel like the straw men deserve it doesn’t change that you’re arguing with hypotheticals versions you’ve created instead of actual people.
You are using straw man incorrectly. Don’t even try to go down the path of rhetorical flaws if you fuck that one up.
You’ve literally defined the argument of an opposing group to look stupid so you can dunk on them. You’re arguing with a straw man. This isn’t even a critique of your rhetorical basis though, it’s just normal Internet lameness.
You cannot present a strawman argument when the side you are arguing against isn’t present. Thus I was not making a straw man. That’s just insulting tankies
Don’t bring these up unless you understand them and in this case you do not.
Lol, what? Do you seriously think you cannot create a straw man argument in anything but direct debate? Sure Mr. Smartman.
Hint, logical fallacies are about the logic, not the debate.
I think you need to be actually arguing with someone to make an argument against them, yes. You cannot make an argument when you aren’t doing so. You need to be debating to make logical fallacies. No one was doing that hence no one made a strawman argument.
Do you need this further explained? No argument was made. The side you are claiming I am making a strawman argument against is not present. There is no debate.
You used it wrong. Learn from this and move on. Don’t misuse them in the future.
Lol, sure man. Definitely no one ever makes an argument in an editorial. It’s not possible as their opponent is not present, may not even read it, and frequently will not be allowed to publish a rebuttal to the same audience.
Arguments are about the audience, not the opponent. Making a straw man when your opponent is not present is the most common form of the fallacy. When they’re there they might just say that’s not what they’re argument is.
This wasn’t an editorial. It was a snarky comment that you inappropriately are trying to make into an argument because you completely misread the situation
Obsessions with “TAnKies” is very much a reddit / lemmy thing, or at least internet slang.
books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=tankie&year…>
Before 2010 it was mostly used to mean “actual tank fighters”.
Nope, that’s been used for decades you are just seeing the limitations of google’s tools as it happened in places they do not index
Prove it
Used by great people like tony blair and bobo the clown lmao
You need to provide a source if you are quoting one.
It’s the same article you fucking idiot
What article? It’s not the article being discussed and your google link sucks for the reasons already explained.
I mean there’s something very hypocritical in westerners, living in the countries who manufacture, sell, sometime give actual tanks all over the world, calling people “tankies” lmao
We get it, the ussr sent tanks in the 80ies. Your country sent tanks half a dozen time since then, idiot. There are tanks doing genocide right now in gaza.
No, there isn’t. Anyone claiming to support the liberation of the working classes while praising authoritarian systems that are cracking down on those populations looking for freedom are hypocrites.
It’s weird you would make this about geographic location. Are you doing that because you don’t have a valid critique?
So you are only capable of ad hominem discussions? That really speaks to your intellectual skills.
You know you can just be opposed to authoritarianism. Most decent folk are.
“some” = the one that’s the basis of and technically closely tied to the one you’re using right now
THIS IS JUST LIKE THAT ONE ANIME
Che Guevara, from Desalinas PFP, was also rather homophonic. I wouldn’t make it a point of purity testing. People in the past did things according to their time (not saying its justified).
The .ml crew has enought to criticize today. Big part them being a different flavor of impiralism
Which other word did he sound like?
Wdym?
You accidentally said “homophonic” instead of “homophobic.” A homophone is a word that is pronounced the same as another but with a different meaning, e.g. “weight” and “wait”
lol those were typos.
Liberals are homophonic.
They all sounds the same
They’re actually not. That’s the problem – they can’t all agree on enough things to vote in the same direction!
What do you mean? They all voted for genocide.
See, its true because there were 2 liberal candidates and they were both pro genocide.
I’m not sure if you’re talking about Israeli liberals, or if you’re trying to say that the US Republican voters are liberals or something…lol
This isn’t a purity test. This is me making fun of the tankies on .ml
You don’t even have to be charged with anything before ICE grabs you off the street and throws you in a van in the US…
Which is true for China as well
Yes it’s fucking horrible, I have the misfortune of living in the US but the same goes for China, North Korea, Russia and I could go on.
Yeah, unfortunately the US is becoming more and more like China in this regard.
And I assume you wish the US to keep doing that because China is doing that and it’s clearly working?
I’m simply responding to the commenter’s comparison to “the west”. Like, if that’s the game we’re gonna play I think I just scored a point. Both situations are obviously terrible duh
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
en.wikipedia.org/…/The_pot_calling_the_kettle_bla…
My own similar behavior? I’m not shoving gays into prison, you fucking idiot.
This isn’t high school debate club and knowing two latin words doesn’t make you smart
Your behavior would have gotten you kicked out of a high school debate club by now.
I quoted directly from the Wikipedia page you provided but okay 🤷♂️.
Very USA-Centric of you lol
USA =/= “The West”
Also useless whataboutism. The sign of someone who has no arguments left to defend their beliefs.
The US is part of the west. If it happens in the US, it happens in the west, because the US is in the west.
USA is very much the “west”.
The “west” is a code for “country who think of themselves as white and civilised”.
Move the goalpost much? The US is in “the west” and they consistently set the tone and run the show. Welcome to geopolitics hope you enjoy your stay!
Can you connect these dots for me?
Nah.
Very typical .ml whataboutism. Both things can be bad at the same time. This is not a null sum game.
It’s not whataboutism to tell the pot to shut the fuck up when it’s calling the kettle black
WAHHHHH THE (non atrocity causing civilians of) COUNTRIES THAT COMMIT ATROCITIES ARE CALLING OUT MY TEAM AND I FEEL MORALLY OBLIGATED TO DEFEND MY TEAM FOR THEIR ATROCITIES.
-you
As we all know, bringing up American issues is always Whataboutism. But you can use China to excuse anything America does without issue. It’s the .world way!
They’re on .world, how is this .ml Whataboutism to call out that both countries are horrid to their citizens?
Clearly, the BBC made it all up. Because it contradicts them. /s
Literally the newest top-level comment right now.
To be clear, writing and posting erotica isn’t illegal, its profiting off it that was illegal, which is still fucked, but less of a free speech issue.
It’s really only a matter of degrees as you can sell other things for a profit so why not your literature?
Correct. But at the same time, once you understand your speech is limited by your reach, which is determined by how big of a megaphone the capitalists will let you have, it becomes more murky. You can say whatever you want in America, and if the government doesnt like it, you will be silenced and ignored. The same applies in China, but there is a greater record of the government actually listening, though often to the worst groups, such as nimbys protesting the expansion of the Shangai maglev and assholes protesting even limited lockdowns in the city with the most covid that keeps infecting the rest of the country.
Weird. I was told state atheism was the hallmark of human rights.
Weird focus. How about you considering that a one-party authoritarian regime isn’t exactly the hallmark of human rights, atheist or theist?
Because whenever a religious person or entity does a bad thing internet atheists are quick to say "see? This is PROOF that religion SUCKS! This would NEVER happen in an ATHEIST utopia," sometimes coupled with a call to ban religion or something equally insane. Sometimes you gotta point out the hypocrisy. I wish I was making this up, but yeah.
yeah, probably not.
Sticking your fingers in your ears while screaming like a baby does not make reality disappear.
“reality”
every single time i read a bbc article about china it has been a lie upon closer inspection.
you should take western propaganda out of your ears.
Yeah well you support a genocide, so you are the last to point fingers at China and anyone else.
The background of the matter transcends conflicts over gender concepts. In recent years, many local governments have been unable to cover their expenses, resulting in a phenomenon known as “distant sea fishing” (远洋捕捞), which refers to “profit-driven law enforcement,” aimed at plundering money from other places. These female writers are just a tiny fraction of the victims. There are also well-known entrepreneurs who have lost their lives due to such extortion.
I’d be interested to read more, but I’m not sure I’ve heard about “distant sea fishing” before. Can you pass the articles/links to the stories you’re referencing?
This matter is not a secret on the internet in China; there are many open discussions about it. The police in many places have taken proactive measures against this.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d17035b5-5f02-4bef-8ba5-fadab4227aa2.webp">
The content of the image is: “Note: Police from other regions are not allowed to illegally enter enterprises to investigate cases.”
This Chinese article explains quite clearly: The chilling new trends in ‘distant sea fishing’.
The Supreme Court has already paid great attention to this kind of phenomenon:
To prevent ‘distant sea fishing’ style law enforcement, the Supreme Court has taken action.
Notice from the Supreme People’s Court on Upholding Strict and Fair Judicial Norms in the Trial and Enforcement of Cases Involving Enterprises
“Five prohibitions” and “eight must nots”… The State Council issued a document to strictly regulate administrative inspections related to enterprises
How to regulate enterprise-related law enforcement, prevent the rebound of issues, and boost enterprise confidence?
Addressing the prominent issues reflected by businesses with concrete actions - The State Council Information Office introduces the latest progress of the special action to standardize administrative law enforcement involving enterprises
I have to say, the effectiveness of these measures is limited. If these types of actions have decreased, it is mainly because companies have become more vigilant, making robbery more difficult.
Yea… porn in illegal in China, erotic stories is just “word-porn” basically, this is nothing new.
This is what conservatism does. Same in China, same in the Deep South of the US (the only reason why porn is still legal-ish in the south is because of the first amendment, but the constitution is being eroded so that might not last long)
Conservatism is a disease that many countries still have. Take a look at this map:
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/0e46cf34-f79d-40da-a994-7f17b25f5bc5.jpeg">
Porn being legal is mostly only a thing in the “western world”.
Even if China has a liberal democracy like in the west, people would still elect conservatives. See democratic countries like: India, South Korea, Ukraine, Phillippines, Malaysia, they all made porn illegal despite being democratic.
I’m cisgender and probably straight (or asexual not sure tbh), but if I was trans or gay, my parents would’ve disowned me for being “mentally ill” and gave me zero inheritance. I mean, even currently with depression, my parents are already thinking about leaving me out of the will for being a “useless eater”, imagine if I was LGBT. For context, parents are from Mainland, PRC, currently we’re in the US, they are conservstives that just thinks everyone who’s is depressed is either “faking it” or crazy psychopaths and/or “useless eaters”. I hate my life.
What “broad restrictions” is NZ and Australia under?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_laws_by_region#…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pornography_laws_by_region#…
Basically a lot of fetishes/kinks deemed “weird” by the government
Everything on the NZ list is illegal pretty much anywhere in the world though.
No golden showers for the Auzzies though.
Yeah India is a striking example of a place where porn really NEEDS to be legal. Way too many horny single men there.
Why am I reminded of one old comic? It went like this:
Yeah porn is so empowering..
Why do you keep posting this? Your problem isn’t with people looking at naked pictures or lewd stories, it’s with exploitation. That’s a capitalist problem, not a porn one. Are you suggesting that in cases of capitalist exploitation we ban the exploited industry instead of regulating the capitalists?
You know this is bad when even Hexbear isn’t defending it. hexbear.net/post/5403841
LGBT rights are human rights, everywhere.
All the posts I read were defending or excusing it.
Applying nuance and researching more context instead of jerking off while grunting “china bad authoritarianism” isnt defending or excusing. You’re just annoyed they dont join your circlejerk.
I read all the comments, there was no research, just saying “It’s pedos for sure”.
Can’t expect much from .world with such things.
And you can expect better from a .ml?
You’re siding with a tankie over an anarchist here btw.
Really? I see 95% of the comments saying it’s China fucking up and they don’t like it.
Most upvoted comment: Attacking the source - Defending
2nd: No proof, but it’s serious so people wouldn’t lie - Benefit of the Doubt
3rd: “Rare China L” - Criticizing
4th: Attacking source, attacking extent - Defending
5th: “If it is happening it’s probably because of taxes or some legit reason” - Defending
6th: “Making porn is illegal” - Defending
7th: “The whole thing smells a little fishy” - Defending
8th: Attacking source, ‘not inclined to believe it’ - Defending
9th: An author in another country wrote some pedophilic, this is probably the same - Defending
10th: Boo - Criticizing
11th: ‘porn struggle session’ - Unknown what way the comment leans.
12th: A quote from another article - Looks Criticizing
13th and least upvoted: “Hexbear users claim to unconditionally support queer rights and then try to run defence for this shit.” - Criticizing
Defending: 7
Critic: 4 (maybe +2)
Where are you getting 95% from?
Nothing to do with that, China bans all explicit content, whether it’s porn videos, photos, or in suggestive text form.
no disrespect, what the hell are you talking about
As much as I like to stan China for how they treat their billionaires and corporations, this is wrong. Sex work, in all its forms, is a valid, lucrative, and old line of work across the world. China is one of the most developed nations on Earth. They should also be the most progressive when it comes to this. Smh
Weirdly they are more progressive when it comes to prostitution; prostitution isnt illegal, but soliciting it is.
so, the Nordic model? how is it progressive to criminalize human functions?
Yes, the model common to the Nordic, Vietnam, Cuba, etc.
Not criminalizing solicitation or brothels increases the number of prostitutes who end up working under coercive conditions.
The tankie government that denies Tiananmen Square doesn’t have much regard for individual rights?
More like porn is illegal, just like in half the US. Give it two years we’ll hear much worse about gay erotica artists being arrested in Texas and held without trial
It isn’t.
My state literally made pornhub illegal today please stop doing apologia and/or propaganda
China has always banned porn, if that is an issue or you oppose this woman being arrested for producing pornography then you should probably take efforts in america to prevent these exact same laws from being passed in your state (something that is already being done whether you choose to pay attention or not)
Arguing against anything I said wouldve been more productive and more interesting than promoting an abject lie that american states arent currently implementing the same authoritarian restrictions on legally produced pornography as the CCP with the list of states doing so ever expanding.
You’re welcome to sleepwalk into authoritarianism but I will continue to call it out in spite of people who choose to plug their ears or derail the conversation away from the growing surveillance state in america. Americans cant influence Chinese internal politics, so when something is wrong there they should look at what they can do to prevent the same thing from occurring here instead of just braying about how bad china is for doing what we will be doing within the decade. Why even come here just to be pithy and wrong?
They did not. Words mean things. Answered here. Cite the law: you can’t.
Right back at you: twisting the word illegal. I disapprove of the dumb online ID regulations, too: still not illegal. US isn’t throwing pornographers & erotica writers in jail.
You said it. Not banned in USA.
Chinese government is already there.
US still has a long way to “catch up”. They’re not
The Chinese government doesn’t care about individual rights & never has: it’s baked into the formula. They always put tankie ideology first, the individual later, sometimes far later.
Oh so youre actually just a propagandist, damn okay then. Im not engaging with you on made up terms and a belief that time doesn’t move forward. I hope you get clowned in the debrief for this dogshit agitprop.
Good thinking bailing now: looks like someone knows when they’re beat. It would be incredibly easy to prove me wrong if your claim were true, yet you don’t. Not hard to figure out why.
You basically: just because facts are inconvenient to your argument doesn’t mean it’s valid to ignore them, pretend they’re “propaganda”, or evade with irrelevant claims.
So, cool fallacies & evasion, bro. You’re 🤡ing yourself right here.
Next time, try logic.
States are banning pornhub and making websites require ID checks. They’re banning porn.
That’s not illegalizing it & it’s not throwing erotica writers in jail. Don’t believe me? Cite the laws. It’s legal.
So if it’s prohibited by a law then it’s not illegal?
Again, it’s not. Again, cite a law.
it’s valid to support some policies in some places without it making you a fervant supporter of everything that state does.
like I love how china actually invests in infrastructure, including housing and public transit and walkable cities.
I dont like what they do in Taiwan and Hong Kong.
It’s upsetting how western voices wouldn’t matter in this discourse but I hope progressives in china will be able to campaign against this and make porn legal and commercially available or atleast present under a government organisation
Yeah porn is so empowering.. Very progressive
the exploitation industry if writing erotica for the fun of it and putting it online.
would anyone think of the exploited IT workers who maintain the wattpad servers
writes a book that is 57 petrabytes large
Clicks “save to cloud.”
Yes because only unethically-produced porn exists…? I don’t get your point.
you fucking idiot
You’re just a little fuck boy going around Lemmy stirring up trouble, fuck off
and here’s why the BBC is blocked in Vietnam