Germany to Trump: We won’t help you reopen the Strait of Hormuz (www.politico.eu)
from RandAlThor@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 15:11
https://lemmy.ca/post/61886977

“This war has nothing to do with NATO. It’s not NATO’s war,” Stefan Kornelius, a spokesperson for German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, told reporters in Berlin on Monday. “NATO is a defensive alliance, an alliance for the defense of its territory,” he added.

#world

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Bullerfar@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 15:23 next collapse

Good answer. Fuck Benjamin and Donald Ducks war. They don’t even know why they did it. NATO is not for undocumented wars.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 15:57 next collapse

NATO is not for undocumented wars.

Glances at the last 80 years of NATO history

:-/

Bullerfar@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 17:56 next collapse

There is a huge difference though. No terror attacks on USA, they already said they “nuked them back to zero” with the other operation. They couldn’t define what the end-goal is for operation fury.

They don’t even agree on why they do this internally. And now they want other states to join in on a war happened because of Trumps small dick. I say fuck no. Let him have the consequences of this retarded administration for once. Let him dig his own grave.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 18:14 next collapse

No terror attacks on USA

You just have to pretend Israel is part of the United States

Bullerfar@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 18:15 collapse

They are not, and isn’t a part of NATO

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 21:08 collapse

The United States is absolutely part of NATO.

And Israel functions as a forward operating base, from which European military powers can control the Suez and the Eastern Mediterranean. It’s fundamental to the Western allied control of North Africa and the Middle East, even before you get into its function as a money laundering outfit and testing bed for military technology and policing strategy.

European leadership has a closer relationship with Israeli military than Turkish military, as a point of comparison.

ranzispa@mander.xyz on 17 Mar 2026 07:04 collapse

Serbia never attacked the US either.

Barracuda@lemmy.zip on 17 Mar 2026 07:37 collapse

Clearly the world should have let Serbia continue it’s genocide. /S

People bitch when NATO stops a genocide and people bitch when NATO doesn’t.

ranzispa@mander.xyz on 17 Mar 2026 08:13 next collapse

UN exists for that purpose, NATO does not exist for that purpose.

Tbf I don’t remember many occasions in which people were complaining because NATO should have entered a conflict to stop a genocide.

Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip on 17 Mar 2026 15:27 collapse
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca on 17 Mar 2026 11:01 collapse

I bitch when people can’t tell its from it’s.

Samskara@sh.itjust.works on 17 Mar 2026 11:02 collapse

Yes, Serbia should have been allowed to genocide more Muslim Bosnians and Albanians. Also Ghadaffi should have been allowed to butcher his population.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 14:13 collapse

Serbia should have been allowed to genocide more Muslim Bosnians and Albanians.

The NATO intervention killed and displaced more civilians than the Bosnian genocide.

The Serbian president Slobodan Milosevic had shown his ruthlessness earlier in Bosnia, and now, facing armed attack from Kosovo nationalists, attacked Kosovo, killing perhaps 2,000 people and causing several hundred thousand to become refugees.

An international gathering in Rambouillet, France, was supposed to try to solve the problem diplomatically. But it presented terms to Yugoslavia that seemed certain to be rejected: NATO control of all of Kosovo, and NATO military occupation of the rest of Yugoslavia. On March 23, 1999, the Serbian National Assembly responded with a counterproposal, rejecting NATO occupation and calling for negotiations leading “toward the reaching of a political agreement on a wide-ranging autonomy for Kosovo. . . . ” The Serbian proposal was ignored, and was not reported in the major newspapers of the United States

The following day, NATO forces (meaning mostly U.S. forces) began the bombing of Yugoslavia. Presumably, the bombing was to stop the “ethnic cleansing” of Kosovo, that is, the forcing of Albanians out of the province by death or intimidation. But after two weeks of bombing, the New York Times reported (April 5, 1999) that “more than 350,000 have left Kosovo since March 24.” Two months later, with the bombing still going on, the figure had risen to over 800,000. The bombing of Yugoslavia, including the capital city of Belgrade, apparently intended to unseat Milosevic, led to an untold number of civilian casualties.

From the People’s History of the United States, Chapter 24

Also Ghadaffi should have been allowed to butcher his population.

Again, the French airforce and subsequent NATO occupation has killed an order of magnitude more in the last decade than Ghadaffi managed in his entire time in office.

LittleBorat3@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 17:04 collapse

Orders of magnitude means to the power of 10, you know that right 😂 It’s between 2000 and 5000

Since when do we care about the aggressors in a conflict?

“But but NATO, the west…” 💩

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 18:39 collapse

😂 It’s between 2000 and 5000

The displaced are between 200,000 and 800,000.

Since when do we care about the aggressors in a conflict?

When the aggressor is Russian or Chinese.

Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 17 Mar 2026 18:49 collapse

200k-800k still isn’t an order of magnitude difference. Just a random person reading your folks comments learning about stuff here, no ill intent meant.

ClownStatue@piefed.social on 16 Mar 2026 16:26 next collapse

In fairness, they know exactly why they did it:

For The Idiot: Israel needs our help to stop the 40-something-year-old “imminent” threat of an Iranian nuclear bomb (that was supposedly already stopped earlier last year when we “thoroughly destroyed” thir enrichment labs.”

For Bibi, it’s an opportunity to realize Israel’s version of manifest destiny, and to kill people he doesn’t like. Remember how everyone was all, “Boy I hope W doesn’t go nuclear on the middle east” after 9/11? 10/7 has had the same effect on Bibi, except he was predisposed for the merciless violence. He’s never seen these adversaries as “people.” W rarely thought about them at all.

pie_enjoyer@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 07:52 next collapse

Iranian nuclear bomb threat is real. It has been stopped 7 times by now, IIRC.

If Iran ever gets nukes, they’re immovable. They can close Hormuz, destroy the oil production or bomb western allies in the region and the western world won’t be able to do anything with it.

Mister_Hangman@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 08:36 next collapse

Damn dude bummer for Israel then. Guess they should have been working to arm locals within Iran to overthrow the IRGC so the Iranian people could be free of their own tyranny. Oh wait I forgot. If they did that and no religious zealots were in charge, odds are they’d stop funding Hamas and other groups for proxies and Bibi wouldn’t have a boogy man anymore.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 08:43 next collapse

This is how you stop nukes

2015 Iran nuclear deal, Iran agreed not to pursue nuclear weapons and allow continuous monitoring of its compliance in exchange for relief from economic sanctions.

President Donald Trump withdrew from the agreement in 2018. He broke his 2016 campaign promise to renegotiate the agreement.

pie_enjoyer@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 08:48 collapse

You’re right.

Orange ape’s withdrawal from the deal was a bad thing and shouldn’t happen in first place, but now we can’t do anything about it.

Iran is unlike to sign similar deal now, the only hope is total destruction of the iranian regime.

Iran is a major offender in the middle east anyway, ther regime should be abolished anyways.

Diurnambule@jlai.lu on 17 Mar 2026 10:20 next collapse

Why kill a entire country when removing one guy is enough ? If the trump dictatorship felt Iran would be more open for a cease fire. May be China or Europe can step up and assume the role of mediator when some give trumps surrender to Iran

redsand@infosec.pub on 17 Mar 2026 15:41 collapse

Oh wow looking at your other comments are you by chance a teenage male, maybe early 20s? Because you very much read like an angry highschool student with big strong oppions based on very little reading and no concept of strategy.

emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works on 17 Mar 2026 13:48 collapse

There was this guy called Ayatollah Khamenei who was the religious leader of Iran and opposed the development of nuclear weapons. Wonder what happened to him.

pie_enjoyer@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 13:58 collapse

Despite that, he was a despotic leader.

Offing him was the best way to put Iran into chaos, which should lead to restoring democracy in Iran.

MBech@feddit.dk on 17 Mar 2026 14:41 collapse

because histotically deposing a government and then just leaving the country in chaos tends to give said country democracy?

pie_enjoyer@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 15:15 collapse

When did I argue for doing that?

MBech@feddit.dk on 17 Mar 2026 16:22 collapse

That was literally your whole comment, the fuck?

Despite that, he was a despotic leader.

Offing him was the best way to put Iran into chaos, which should lead to restoring democracy in Iran.

Ninjasftw@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 11:57 next collapse

Also isn’t there pending corruption charges against him that are constantly put on hold because they are at war?

OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip on 17 Mar 2026 13:06 collapse

It’s about two fascist leaders making desperate plays to stay in power. That’s it.

redsand@infosec.pub on 17 Mar 2026 15:35 collapse

Ah. You don’t know about the Mossad CIA operation that started in the 80s and is still running today. You see Epstein and Maxwell gathered blackmail on the most rich in powerful people in the world. Israel is now using that blackmail trove and intelligence gathered from years of selling governments software to expand Israel into “Greater Israel”.

Did you also miss Ghislaine being invite on the 9/11 shadow council?

remon@ani.social on 16 Mar 2026 15:25 next collapse

But not out of principle … our ships just don’t go that far without breaking down!

RandAlThor@lemmy.ca on 16 Mar 2026 15:35 next collapse

lol is that true? are you german?

unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de on 16 Mar 2026 15:45 next collapse

It is a bit of a meme in germany that our military equipment suffers from a lack of maintenance. Also there were a bunch of cases of new weapons systems just failing catastrophically or having huge security issues.

qyron@sopuli.xyz on 16 Mar 2026 16:12 next collapse

My country is a bit towards the south and nobody really knows how our ships still manage to float.

We have ships where the entire navigation suite has been replaced with a commercial GPS.

The guns are fired… Every now and then. Sparingly. We still have ammunition from the 70’s in stock. Some times we even manage to misplace equipment.

Yet somehow we’re considered as the reliable ally, although a bit… wierd.

OwOarchist@pawb.social on 17 Mar 2026 02:26 collapse

We have ships where the entire navigation suite has been replaced with a commercial GPS.

Honestly, that’ll do just fine in 90% of cases.

Only issues are:

  • What do you do if some country has maliciously turned off or disabled the GPS satellites?

  • The commercial GPS unit probably isn’t very EMP-resistant, so it might quickly be disabled if EMPs start going off all over the place … as would happen in a nuclear war.

But as long as you’re not fighting anybody capable of turning the entire GPS system off and the war hasn’t gone nuclear, it should probably be fine.

qyron@sopuli.xyz on 17 Mar 2026 06:12 collapse

Sincerely? I’d expect to see astrolabes or sextants being pulled from storage.

OwOarchist@pawb.social on 17 Mar 2026 17:53 collapse

Most naval ships actually do carry these old school navigation devices (as well as paper charts) and train on how to use them, just for this purpose. Just in case something disables the electronic navigation.

qyron@sopuli.xyz on 17 Mar 2026 20:41 collapse

That is nice to know

Samskara@sh.itjust.works on 17 Mar 2026 11:09 collapse

While true, Germany also has quite strict rules on rating equipment to not be ready. A broken heating or turning indicator on an IFV means it counts as non operational.

For ships there’s a rule of thumb. One is operational and on a mission, one is being refueled and restocked, one is being refit, maintained, or upgraded. So you need three units to always have one available. Germany has six submarines, meaning two are always available for active operations.

For planes you have to do hours of maintenance for every minute in the air.

The Bundeswehr used to lack funds and personnel, now it lacks mostly qualified personnel.

Herr_S_aus_H@lemmy.zip on 17 Mar 2026 15:31 collapse

The amount of funds was never the problem. The way it was spend is and was the main problem.

_edge@discuss.tchncs.de on 16 Mar 2026 15:58 next collapse

“Bedingt abwehrfähig” is the bureacratic term the government uses to explain that the German military, in particular the equipment, is broken beyond any hope of repair.

Zer0_F0x@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 16:27 collapse

Germany sold some submarines to Greece that were leaning over on one side out the factory

Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca on 16 Mar 2026 17:17 next collapse

So Canada is buying the Korean ones then?

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca on 16 Mar 2026 18:56 collapse

BMW makes submarines?

comrade_twisty@feddit.org on 16 Mar 2026 16:04 next collapse

Isn’t the pride of the German Navy a sailboat called the Gorch Fock?

crazycraw@crazypeople.online on 16 Mar 2026 16:09 next collapse

hey gorch fock yourself

jk

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca on 16 Mar 2026 18:55 next collapse

Dunno but the German word for team is mannschaft, and there was a German cycling team using Giant bikes, so the were the Giant Mannschaft.

Giggity.

GameOverFlow@lemmy.zip on 16 Mar 2026 21:20 collapse

It’s a beautiful ship. But germany hast quite a few real good ships and submarines. Of course no where the quantity of USA. 

thefluffiest@feddit.nl on 16 Mar 2026 20:39 collapse

And for 80 years, we were quite happy with that!

— love, your neighbors

GreenBeanMachine@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 15:41 next collapse

“I would also like to remind you that the U.S. and Israel did not consult us before the war, and that Washington explicitly stated at the start of the war that European assistance was neither necessary nor desired,” Kornelius said.

track_stick_baboon@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 10:46 collapse

That paragraph alone, I must frame it.

Decq@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 17:17 next collapse

Are we going have that brain-dead ‘freedom’ fries bullshit again? Is this really going to be a repeat of 2003 Iraq? Seeing the limitless supply of brain rot in the US, probably we will.

Jessvj93@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 08:54 next collapse

It’s gonna be a lot of foods: freedom fries, freedom burger, freedom sauvignon blanc.

Samskara@sh.itjust.works on 17 Mar 2026 11:12 collapse

Even if there’s a full scale invasion of Iran, a repeat of the aftermath of Irak is unlikely. Irak was much more of an artificial country with the major divisions between Kurds, Shia, and Sunni. While Iran also has a bunch of large minorities, it’s more cohesive overall.

SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca on 16 Mar 2026 18:53 next collapse

“Get Ze fucked”

D_C@sh.itjust.works on 16 Mar 2026 19:28 next collapse

“but…but…usually when I fuck things up someone sorts it out for me. Why won’t you fix my massive fuck up?”

IratePirate@feddit.org on 17 Mar 2026 14:50 collapse

You’re almost eight eighty. Soon you’ll be one of the big boys dead.

Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 16 Mar 2026 19:32 next collapse

In the words of Knorkator

Geh aus dem Weg, du Arschgesicht

Eh mann, du stinkst nach Klo

Gib lieber auf, das schaffst du nicht

Und nun zurück in den Zoo

sockenklaus@sh.itjust.works on 16 Mar 2026 20:15 collapse

Knorkator… That’s a name I haven’t heard for a loooong time and today I learned that they are back from their creative break… Since 2010 🤣

Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 16 Mar 2026 21:03 collapse

They have a double day gig at Columbiahalle in Berlin, and tickets are hot.

Aber… Zum Glück bin ich ein alter Mann, das geht mich alles nichts mehr an!

Jumi@lemmy.world on 16 Mar 2026 20:09 next collapse

For now, I’d dare a bet on Merz getting back to sucking corpo cock

GameOverFlow@lemmy.zip on 16 Mar 2026 21:17 collapse

He worked for BlackCock i think. 

[deleted] on 17 Mar 2026 08:25 next collapse
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HugeNerd@lemmy.ca on 17 Mar 2026 10:58 next collapse

Except for the occasional humanitarian bombing.

gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de on 17 Mar 2026 11:23 next collapse

It feels a lot like Trump shits and then asks us to wipe his ass clean.

J92@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 13:16 next collapse

Please, sleep alone in the bed you shat in.

MrMakabar@slrpnk.net on 17 Mar 2026 18:15 collapse

Why do you have to kick Netanyahu out of his bed?

Fluke@feddit.uk on 17 Mar 2026 15:35 next collapse

The response from everyone else should be, “Why would we join a war that’s already been won?”

Give him his own bloviating bullshit back, served up nice and cold.

ptu@sopuli.xyz on 17 Mar 2026 16:39 collapse

I think Boris Pistorius was on point:

“What does Trump expect from a handful of European frigates that the powerful US navy cannot do?”

BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 18:25 collapse

Once their ships show up, the Navy can dip and leave the mess to someone else. He can just move on to the next country on his list

[deleted] on 17 Mar 2026 16:56 next collapse
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TwilitSky@lemmy.world on 17 Mar 2026 17:02 next collapse

Berlin said NEIN!

Blackmist@feddit.uk on 17 Mar 2026 18:51 collapse

I like how Trump’s response to this is a petulant “well we don’t need you anyway, so there!”

Europe needs to seriously up it’s arms manufacturing though.