deddit.petersanchez.com

‘If Ukraine fails, war will come to the streets of European cities,’ former foreign minister says (www.cnbc.com)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 20:16
https://lemmy.world/post/23107145

Summary

Former Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba warned that if Ukraine falls to Russia, the conflict could spread to European cities, as Putin might target the EU next.

Kuleba emphasized Ukraine’s NATO membership as critical to preventing future wars, dismissing security guarantees as insufficient.

He criticized potential peace settlements at Ukraine’s territorial expense, stressing the need for Moscow to negotiate in good faith.

Amid escalating attacks on Ukraine, Kuleba defended counter-escalation using U.S.-supplied weapons, while Trump criticized Biden’s support for strikes inside Russia.

#world

threaded - newest

NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 20:34 next collapse

Germans: “idk bro, maybe the Russians are nice now? Let’s let them in”

el_bhm@lemm.ee on 14 Dec 10:34 collapse

High time to give Nord Stream 3 a chance

Darkard@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 20:55 next collapse

Arms Manufacturers:

octopus_ink@lemmy.ml on 13 Dec 20:56 next collapse

Seriously - this will be the time when the rest of the world will find out whether they can win against Russia without ( or against ) US support, since we elected Putin’s cock holster a few weeks ago.

Gullible@sh.itjust.works on 13 Dec 21:20 next collapse

Against the US? No. Unequivocally not happening, no. Against just Russia? Pick three EU nations at random and their combined might would exceed Russia’s with only moderate effort. The EU has been fairly lackadaisical about putting in the effort, which is the main obstacle.

scarabic@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 00:59 next collapse

Yeah this war has revealed just how strong Russia is not. They thought they would take Kiev in 3 days and have still not done so after 3 years. Ukraine + Syrian Rebels = too much for them, let alone 3 European nations.

ZK686@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 01:53 next collapse

It’s not because of anything but the US sending money and weapons to Ukraine, otherwise, they’d be done.

scarabic@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 03:17 collapse

Yes western armaments have been key. I still think it’s telling that Russia cannot dominate a much smaller foe that’s working with an on-again / off-again pastiche of foreign armaments they aren’t always trained for.

Rozz@lemmy.sdf.org on 14 Dec 04:27 collapse

Russia can just put in the minimum effort for a long time

scarabic@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 19:02 collapse

That’s what they are trying to do, but they are spending 33% of their federal budget on it. For comparison, the US spends 13% of federal budget on its defense department.

Russia has also lost anywhere between 100k and 600k soldiers’ lives. At the low end it is already triple their total losses from their engagements in Chechnya and Afghanistan combined. At the high end, estimates are that 2% of the entire Russian adult male population has now been killed or wounded in this war. For comparison, America lost less than 60k soldiers in the entire Vietnam War.

Ukraine is an extremely attractive prize for Russia but how long can they sustain these losses, and the crippling sanctions, to attain some prize? Not forever.

Of course we can always come back and say that Ukraine has lost a similar amount and can afford it less. But Ukraine is fighting for their very existence so they can “afford” any amount.

Personally I think that they will hold out as long as western arms support does. That’s really the only thing on the Ukrainian side that could falter. And that’s probably what Russians are holding out for. Trump will likely fold and I don’t think Russia will settle for its current gains when that happens. Either they will continue hostilities as they are, make some breakthrough gains and then settle, or settle now and come back in 2 years to stir shit again. Either way, with their currency on fire and their war effort stagnating,Trump is Russia’s great hope right now.

ZK686@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 01:53 next collapse

But according to Lemmy and Reddit, the US needs to do more, send more money, because you know, we’re the World Police when other countries need us…

Gullible@sh.itjust.works on 14 Dec 02:00 next collapse

The average internet person knows nothing. Myself included.

vodkasolution@feddit.it on 14 Dec 03:21 next collapse

if you wanna be World Police, act as World Police…

jabjoe@feddit.uk on 14 Dec 09:46 collapse

If the US wants the power, it takes the responsibility. If it doesn’t take the responsibility, it will lose that power.

Russia and China would be happy to take the position vacated. If the EU got it’s act together, it could also be a contender (but it’s not looking like it will at the moment with its own Putin backed popularists).

barsoap@lemm.ee on 14 Dec 10:05 next collapse

Against the US? No. Unequivocally not happening, no.

Solo EU vs. solo US would lead to a stalemate, both sides quickly realising that the other party is on the other side of the Atlantic and that noone has a counter against stealth subs, which the US would be able to develop before the EU has time to build a non-negligible amount of aircraft carriers. Nukes won’t be an issue both sides have enough second-strike capabilities to turn the other side to glass, unless the US gets a foothold in France at which point the French would first strike. So don’t do that, especially when the stalemate is so comfortably an ocean wide.

Pick three EU nations at random and their combined might would exceed Russia’s with only moderate effort.

Luxembourg, Malta, Cyprus.

…I mean generally speaking you’re right but technically no.

elucubra@sopuli.xyz on 14 Dec 13:23 next collapse

Europe has many stealth subs, I mean scary stealth, like pop up undetected in the middle of a US carrier group and “sink” a US carrier stealthy, several aircraft carriers, and four or five of the world’s top 10 arms exporter countries.

Missiles, Eurofighters, Rafales, Gripens, F35s, nukes, last gen frigates and destroyers…

Overwhelmingly superior in tech, generation, and number to what Russia has and Ukraine is being given. Also a tech and and manufacturing might vastly superior. Ukraine is not Nato. Even without the US, Europe would wipe the floor with Russia, and Putin knows.

That said, if combined with the US would really make it a special operation.

Also remeber that the USSR was able to defeat Hitler because of Allied material, especially US through Lend-lease.

Gullible@sh.itjust.works on 14 Dec 15:03 collapse

I said “at random” for a reason. The likelihood of choosing all three of the least preparable nations is 1/1000. I don’t believe you chose randomly, and therefore would like to indicate that your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries.

barsoap@lemm.ee on 14 Dec 16:23 next collapse

But I could have chosen randomly, your post might be read by a billion people each rolling their own set of independent dice, and that’s why you don’t leave engineering to theorists.

…and it’s the three least populous nations, btw. Together about 2m people. About the average of Lithuania and Slovenia, a bit more than a tenth of Romania, or about 0.45% of the whole of the EU.

Gullible@sh.itjust.works on 14 Dec 17:18 collapse

Truthfully, I realized all of this, including the specific countries someone might choose, and giggled at my coming retort as I wrote the comment. Get baited, nerd.

Maalus@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 17:28 collapse

Lithuania Latvia Estonia.

Gullible@sh.itjust.works on 14 Dec 17:44 collapse

And your father smells even more of elderberries in the morning than the evening

Maalus@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 19:23 collapse

Ye cool. The point is you think a random function will choose Germany, France, Spain, Poland or Italy. When there is 27 countries in the EU, most of them utterly unprepared for war.

Gullible@sh.itjust.works on 14 Dec 19:44 collapse

Continued notification game eh? Take the 1

seejur@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 15:00 collapse

The EU as a whole has donated more to Ukraine than the US.

The main problem is that while the EU donations where to keep Ukraine economy afloat, a lot of the US ones were military aid, so Ukraine cannot do without either.

usnews.com/…/these-countries-have-committed-the-m…

ZK686@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 01:52 next collapse

I really with the left would stop acting like Trump is going to just give Putin anything he wants. Trump has no intention in allowing Russia to just take over whoever they want. His goal is to play a better role in trying to stop the war, unlike Biden who just keeps giving billions and billions of dollars, no questions asked…

octopus_ink@lemmy.ml on 14 Dec 02:02 next collapse

WeUnite@lemm.ee on 14 Dec 04:32 collapse

Checkout that guy’s post history. He may be part of a misinformation campaign or a victim of misinformation.

jabjoe@feddit.uk on 14 Dec 09:49 next collapse

Yer, it’s all tankie/troll stuff. Blocked!

ZK686@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 21:22 collapse

Welcome to Reddit 2.0… " I don’t agree with you so I’m blocking you!" :-)

octopus_ink@lemmy.ml on 14 Dec 10:24 next collapse

He may be part of a misinformation campaign or a victim of misinformation.

Ah, so a Trump voter! ;)

ZK686@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 21:23 collapse

Yes, a Trump voter. All 78 million of us are wrong, and misinformed… and YOU guys are the right ones, got it.

octopus_ink@lemmy.ml on 14 Dec 21:25 collapse

Not whatsoever, some of you are bigoted hateful racists who knew exactly what you were voting for.

ZK686@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 01:28 collapse

I’m Mexican, so keep stirring that pot… also, each party is filled with dumb asses that represent dumb shit, that doesn’t mean we’re all like that. I know some pretty extreme left wing Democrats that are just crazy,.but they don’t represent all the people in that party.

octopus_ink@lemmy.ml on 15 Dec 02:57 collapse

I’m Mexican, so keep stirring that pot…

Did you not read the word “some”?

Also, I didn’t specify that the bigotry was only based on race. You could be a bigoted transphobe in addition to being a bigoted racist, or instead of. There’s a lot of variety to right wing bigotry. Or you could be none of those - we covered the other group at the beginning of our interaction together.

ZK686@lemmy.world on 15 Dec 21:50 collapse

The Left says the Right is racist, homophobic… the Right says the Left is anti-gun, pro-crime, anti-police… blah, blah… both sides have extremists and both sides are guilty of having some dumb asses. As I’m getting older, I just find myself become more aligned with Republicans because of my personal beliefs. That doesn’t make me an idiot, a racist, a bigot… etc… I"m just simply voting for who I think best represents me, at this point in my life. That does not make me any less of a person than you or anyone else on Lemmy, yet, I constantly get attacked because I’m not with the Left mob like you all are.

octopus_ink@lemmy.ml on 16 Dec 12:33 collapse

👌

ZK686@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 21:21 collapse

Nope, I vote Republicans, and have conservative views. Shocking, I know…not every single person on Lemmy thinks and acts the same.

rational_lib@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 05:37 next collapse

"I really wish the left would stop acting like Trump is going to try to remain president if he loses the election. Trump has no intention of trying to overturn a free and fair election."

Every Republican leading up to 2020.

ZK686@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 21:20 collapse

Oh brother… and how did that turn out? Was it overturned?

spongebue@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 11:05 collapse

Yeah, Trump was pretty clear in the debate that it was in the US’s best interest for Ukraine to win, so why would he let Putin do what he wants? To have the war end quickly, come what may?

Oh, wait…

FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 12:27 collapse

This is the breadbasket and ICBM manufacturing part of the USSR. Its importance to the lives of everyone, yes EVERYONE on earth that this place be freed from Russian control cannot be overstated.

We just let the orange guy win again please EU act like rational adults

Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works on 13 Dec 20:59 next collapse

I always ~~hate~~ love to see the selective fearmongering the “anti-war” faction engages in. Russia keeping going after overtaking Ukraine and starting wars with other european nations? Fearmongering! Russia glassing the world with nukes if they can’t get Ukraine? Credible threat!

lurklurk@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 09:11 collapse

They are enemy psy op actors, whether they know it or not

Nougat@fedia.io on 13 Dec 21:01 next collapse

Is Ukraine not in Europe?

vodkasolution@feddit.it on 13 Dec 21:26 collapse

Europe == European Union

Nougat@fedia.io on 13 Dec 21:32 collapse

So Switzerland is not in Europe, got it.

https://european-union.europa.eu/sites/default/files/styles/embed_large/public/2024-05/european-map_en.jpg

Skunk@jlai.lu on 13 Dec 22:16 next collapse

Switzerland is in Europe, it’s even a big crossroad of rails and airways for the continent.

But Switzerland is not in the European Union.

Nougat@fedia.io on 13 Dec 22:23 collapse

I was told that Europe and the European Union were the same thing.

Skunk@jlai.lu on 13 Dec 22:30 collapse

If you’re speaking about the == above I think that’s a mistake and he wanted to write !=

Or he is a bit of a nerd and knew that ‘Europe == European Union’ would return ‘False’

baronvonj@lemmy.world on 13 Dec 23:12 next collapse

I took it to mean that the article is using “Europe” to mean “European Union” in order to contextualize the quotes in the post. But I haven’t read the article so that’s just my opinion, man.

vodkasolution@feddit.it on 14 Dec 03:18 next collapse

please, not just a bit! 🤓

towerful@programming.dev on 14 Dec 03:19 collapse

Loose type coercion.
Should always use === for a strict comparison in loosely typed languages.
Seems like europe and european union are equivalent when implicitly coerced.

MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml on 14 Dec 08:56 collapse

‘=’=‘====’

barsoap@lemm.ee on 14 Dec 10:13 collapse

It is and it is not part of Europe same as Canada is and is not part of America.

Don’t confuse the geographical/cultural terms with the US getting shortened to “America” and the EU getting shortened to “Europe”.

AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip on 13 Dec 23:52 next collapse

Theres already war on fucking european cities streets because ukraine is europe. This is the exact giveaway that they dont support ukraine at all and just want to protect their asses. While i do think ukraine is an important buffer state i also think that the 40 million people living there(and the other 90 or something million people who live in european states bordering russia) have their own lives and rights and should be respected.

ZK686@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 01:50 next collapse

I think this is a scare tactic to get the US to give more money. There’s no way Putin does anything after Ukraine. He can’t, first of all… because he’ll have little to no resources, and also, the international community won’t allow him too.

kerrigan778@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 04:51 next collapse

Yeah but we want cheaper groceries now, so we’re all just going to elect fascists instead.

Doomsider@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 17:28 collapse

Sorry Aotus already said bringing down prices is going to be hard.

abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=116763207

kerrigan778@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 18:51 collapse

surprisedpikachuface.jpg

hark@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 04:58 next collapse

The same Russia struggling to take over Ukraine alone is somehow going to take over Europe? Please. While we need to beat back Russia, there is no use in exaggerated fearmongering. It does more harm than good.

M33@lemmy.sdf.org on 14 Dec 11:00 next collapse

thisphuckinguy@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 14:34 next collapse

💯

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 14 Dec 16:44 next collapse

Putin is already targeting Europe. Not that we’re doing anything much about it.

geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml on 14 Dec 19:10 collapse

The global south colonies are starting to break free. Quick invest a trillion in weapons!

EU not giving Ukraine their modern weapons or letting them into NATO and then wondering how it lost to Russia.