Ukraine offered “Kremlin peace plan”: Halve armed forces, cede territories, abandon weapons, accept Russian as official language
(euromaidanpress.com)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 20 Nov 13:14
https://lemmy.world/post/39061016
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 20 Nov 13:14
https://lemmy.world/post/39061016
Kyiv has been offered a “Kremlin peace plan” under the guise of negotiations. The US and Russia have reportedly prepared a peace plan for Ukraine that would involve Kyiv meeting the Kremlin’s maximalist demands, says Christopher Miller, a correspondent for the Financial Times.
At the same time, Reuters sources report that the US indicated to President Volodymyr Zelenskyy that Kyiv should accept Washington-prepared frameworks for ending the war with Russia. It remains unclear what security guarantees would be given for Kyiv, as there is no evidence that the Kremlin has abandoned its imperial ambitions.
Earlier, Axios wrote that Washington and Moscow were discussing a new peace plan to end Russia’s war against Ukraine.
#world
threaded - newest
Fundamentally unserious “just admit defeat” type of offering. The real signal is that the US is still a painfully unreliable ally.
The US is a shit stain on the world stage.
And yet, for being so painfully unreliable, especially with the ruling parties flip-flopping back and forth so much, USA aid is still sought after. 🙄
I imagine as Zelensky has said so many times before, Ukraine won’t cede shit. Hopefully, he tells them both to go kick rocks.
It’s like Smeagol/Gollum. You might need them for certain shit, but you know it’s going to end in tears.
Why wouldn’t Ukraine take anything the US is willing to give? Worst case scenario, they don’t give anything and you’re in the same place you started.
The same type of plan the west and in fact China and Russia back up for palestinians. Both Ukraine and Palestine should not give up a single inch of land to the occupiers and desfinitely not surrended armed resistance
God damn right.
US is extremely reliable when it comes to Israel.
True, even the democrats would rather lose the election than to criticise israel
The United States is still an ally to Ukraine. Our mistake of a President is a criminal and an ally to no one but himself. Even that is a stretch.
I for one prefer full scale war than this.
SLAVA UKRAINI!
Let me guess, you aren’t personally at risk of being kidnapped off the street and sent to the front lines as drone fodder.
I apologize, but I currently have no time to indulge in futile discussions with .ml russian bots.
Try with someone else, thanks.
I’m not from .ml and I agree with their points.
It’s easy for you to tell other people to go to war.
Other people are already going to war and more will until we don’t delete fascists from the planet.
Those “other people” have to risk their lives while you sit on your computer.
They could really use your help. If they lose and you’re not there, then you kind of just encouraged them to go to their deaths while you’re completely safe.
Those other people are risking their lives because they were invaded by a foreign country.
Also I’m completely useless to them since I have never used a weapon.
Still, I would gladly go to war with all EU if needed, against Russia or whoever, just so the future generations can sit on their computers while dealing with online idiots like yourself.
Then what’s stopping you from enlisting? You will encourage Ukrainians to die in war without you, but when it’s the EU you’ll decide to join?
I see you (obviously) skipped the part where I said that I’m completely useless.
Classic.
So you’d be completely useless to the EU as well?
Do you know that some of the people you’re encouraging to die in war haven’t used a weapon, either?
Yes and yes (although I haven’t encouraged anyone).
It’s funny how you all always scream for people dying on Ukraine’s side, but don’t even mention that on the other side the situation is even worse since no one there is fighting for their home or to protect their families and loved ones.
Makes me wonder if you are just ignorant, brainwashed or acting in bad faith.
Are you telling me that if your county was invaded you would just roll over and hope to not get hurt?
Ok, just making sure that your excuses aren’t real excuses and when called out you move the goalposts.
I’m sure the Ukrainians are invigorated to fight because people like you are telling them to. 🙄
Sadly what i said isn’t “Ukrainians have to fight” in my first comment.
I said the EU should go to war.
No you didn’t, but we don’t have to dwell on that.
The EU isn’t likely to go to war over this, but more Ukrainians are likely to die until a peace deal is made.
What part of “full scale war” isn’t clear to you?
I see, so when you are blatantly wrong we stop arguing. Got it.
Then what is your point about the EU? Read again my first comment and tell me how is it relevant in any way.
Ending hunger, war, poverty, diseases etc… are all extremely unlikely too, yet I see no reason I shouldn’t prefer it to what we have today.
You’re encouraging the Ukrainians to deny a peace deal because you would rather have the EU go to war with Russia. It’s unlikely for that to happen, so you’re encouraging Ukrainians to deny a peace deal for nothing.
You do this while having no skin in the game yourself.
There is no mention of Ukrainians, let alone any “encouragement” to do anything.
The article itself doesn’t mention Ukrainians, but third parties pushing for a “peace” that is actually full submission to Russia.
I state, as a European, that I would prefer the risk of having my own country and the whole EU in the war, than forcing Ukraine to surrender to its invader.
These are my words explained as clearly as I can, so you can understand them better and stop twisting them more than you already did.
And to your false and hypocritical care about the lost lives, present and future, of the people of Ukraine I answer with a word and a quote:
Crimea.
Now that you have been proven blatantly wrong I guess that the discussion is over.
Right, and from the very beginning I said it was easy to say your words when you’re not the one having to put yourself at risk.
It seems you’re desperate to protect your ego and just argue instead of discuss. I understand if after all the nonsense you’ve said, you finally want to duck out.
Have a nice day.
I enlisted in the US military and I support Ukraine. I enjoy watching drone footage of Russians dying too. How does that make you feel?
It was not Ukraine’s idea to go to war.
Based db0 not standing for tankies!
We generally don’t want to defederate .ml, except when they post anything, or comment on anything, or vote on anything. It’s just those times that we think about it.
You know you can go enlist, right?
I think what you meant to say was,
Despite the fact that,
news.gallup.com/…/ukrainian-support-war-effort-co…
Edit: grammar
Oh look, another .ml bot, how unsurprising.
See my answer to your comrade. Bye.
He has a point, regardless of what instance he’s posting from.
Oh, my sweet summer child…
I guess you don’t have an actual response.
Just insult the people holding you accountable.
I don’t see the usefulness of responding to bots.
You should learn what a bot is.
You should realize that you can’t expect to distinguish them anymore.
Also meat bots are still bots, if you know what I mean.
Get ratio’d, vatnik.
I usually hate that comment. But when it’s for .ml with idiot takes, I’m all for it
No he does not. You need well formulated questions if you want good answers in a poll. If you asked “would you prefer we give up fortified front line territory and forcibly halved our army in exchange for ceasefire?” you would not get that percentage.
They are sick and tired of this war, no question about that. But this war is existential. Russia does not acknowledge Ukrainian as a real language and culture. Everyone knows Russia would attack again. Ukraine has no choice but to defend themselves.
What is it with yall refusing to believe any opposing viewpoints are organic?
Those 69% of Ukranians who want to end the war via negotiation - are they Russian bots as well?
The fact that they want the war to end doesn’t mean they want to surrender.
Your cherry picked data means nothing, like your opinion.
I know… I know… It’s hard to hear but try not to cry if you can…
How does this follow or relate to anything we’ve discussed so far?
It simply completely nullifies your cherry picking.
Putin’s nut moisteners arriving right on time.
how much they pay you comrade? or is it more like “if you post our propaganda we’ll give you a new rug to hang on your wall and more vodka to feed you and your families wet brains. Also here’s a new adidas track suit so you can go squat in.”
These polls are so bad. It’s like asking “would you like peace?”. Ukranians know perfectly well what would happen to them and their relatives if they lost the war. Fighting a war SUCKS but it was not their choice to go to war. It was not their choice to get terror-bombed every single night.
It’s actually not like that at all. It’s actually pretty simple:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/4d1ba267-5391-4e28-9a95-00dae6b14154.webp">
You know you are free to go join the Russian army and go kill innocent families and kidnap children for Russia’s war if you are so enthusiastic about sucking Putin’s dick right?
Maybe you can cede your home and all your possessions to Putin? You realize that is what you are defending right?
Nope, it’s actually a simple question:
Do you think the Ukrainian common people should be the primary agents in determining whether or not to continue combat?
No shit people don’t wanna die in a war.
The alternative is fascists rule the world. It sucks but the shittiest people in the world have the most power in the world.
That only changes if people fight which is why it is important that the world stand with Ukraine against Putin and the fascists of this world.
And there’s the rub. You can’t just stick your fingers in your ears when Ukrainians are aiming to end combat and pursue negotiations, and then turn around and say you are “standing with Ukraine”.
Put simply: to stand with Ukraine means to affirm the hopes and agency of common Ukrainians - which is definitively not what you’re doing.
Consider this thought experiment:
In 5 years, supposing the grueling combat has continued, and 95% of Ukrainians definitively and undoubtedly wish to end combat, is it really “standing with Ukraine” if you reject this number and insist they continue to fight to “save the world from fascism” while you yourself have not enlisted?
Only thing you enlisted in is ribs night at Golden Corral.
Do you have the a comparable stat from Russia?
Tell us you’re from .ml without telling us.
.ml moment
I can hear Zelenskyy laughing from here
“Oh wait you’re serious let me laugh harder” - Zelenskyy, pribably
That explains a lot. Basically “reward the aggressor” and “prevent any possibility for future armed resistance”
Also “create a news event that will make Trump look like he’s accomplished something,” non matter how meaningless it is on the ground.
US is the new USSR.
It’s going to collapse about the same way soon enough too.
Balkanization of the us should be interesting to watch.
I keep hoping for it!
<img alt="" src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Flag_of_the_New_California_Republic.svg/1200px-Flag_of_the_New_California_Republic.svg.png">
What the hell do you even mean by this? In what way is it acting not like it always has?
“You can have peace. Just surrender to our rule!”
Reminder that bullying exists from the school yard all the way to international politics.
That’s because the bullies never matured past the school yard.
Does anyone think Ukraine is going to roll over for trump?
Vlad and Donnie don’t know peace, they only know vassals
When will someone explain to Donald that Russia only respects power. Always has always will.
Slap them hard enough and often enough and THEN negotiate.
Maybe a tomahawk to one of Putins personal villas?
Trump admires this. He doesnt see Putin as an enemy, but an inspiration. Same reason MBS was welcomed the way he was at the White House, while people like Zelenskyy are mocked and scolded when they arrive.
Putin just keeps grabbing us by the Trump.
US sees their cementing the occupation in Palestine and wants to do the same here.
LOL
Zelenskyy better say thank you!
<img alt="" src="https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/photo/msid-122070084/122070084.jpg?resizemode=4">
So basically, allow the invaders to invade your country without resistance?
And then wait for them to do it again in about 10 years to grab for even more. It’s not a peace plan, it’s surrender.
“Make Russian your official language!”
10 Years Later
“We must invade and claim territory, the majority of the population speaks Russian so obviously it’s already Russia”
More: “Make this retroactively legal so we can avoid war crime trials and damages”.
Yes, but under the promise that you won’t be under any kind of protection if it happens again in a few years.
Every month I buy a field med kit for Ukraine through White Stork. I am so sorry about Trump, Ukraine. So utterly sorry.
Stupid title made it sound like Ukraine made the offer.
I’m trying to figure out if that was intentional, or they’re just really fucking bad at their job.
Don’t forget a big part of the deal: Putin won’t show pictures of Trump sucking off Bubba.
As if AI can’t do that already. Nobody on either side will believe anything offered as evidence, because it’s just so easy to fake. He’ll never suffer any consequences of his lifetime of criminality and lies.
Yeah, why hasn’t anyone made this already actually?
Don’t forget, he’s doing the Hitler playbook 1:1. And Hitler did one thing good: he killed Hitler. Just saying, there’s still hope.
Creating photos that will actually pass real scrutiny hasn’t happened yet. That’s why. Can it fool the general populace who would look at it for no more than 1 second? Sure. But that’s a low bar.
Trump has already released all sorts of fake photos, and as with his words, it doesn’t matter if it’s true or not, the purpose is only to influence or fool the target audience for just long enough for them to dismiss reality.
How is the orange cancer telling Zelenskyy what Putin told him to say with that Russian dick in his mouth?