I’m here with you bro, I feel the same. I really felt that last “SHIT”. 🤝🫂
Retreaux@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 13:44
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Considering I live in the US I just feel paralyzed about what to do. I want to be a Mushroom Kingdom champion but I’m not armed, I don’t even like violence, and I have two kids to protect. But I’m so sick of the twisted fucked up leaders making all these power grabs and massacres.
We all are, you’re not alone. ❤️ I’m also a father of two young boys. Ain’t no way I’m ready to go fight a war and die and leave them without a father. I’d rather flee, like a coward, just to be with them and so they won’t lose me.
floofloof@lemmy.ca
on 18 Apr 2025 04:14
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But don’t anyone say that Israel is doing anything bad, or you’ll be deported to a concentration camp for your antisemitic terrorism, without trial.
Rentlar@lemmy.ca
on 18 Apr 2025 04:52
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Wow… just wow…
It’s heartbreaking and enraging.
We’re essentially at the point where the Israeli government could justify the Holocaust as long as the Nazis said “Hamas officers hiding among them” before killing people. The genocide is not only cruel but a callous waste of life, hope and talent.
torrentialgrain@lemm.ee
on 18 Apr 2025 05:30
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What the fuck dude.
Tinidril@midwest.social
on 18 Apr 2025 05:31
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All the fuck.
torrentialgrain@lemm.ee
on 18 Apr 2025 05:34
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Nah. I mean I’m German and what you’re saying is literally what we’ve been hearing from Neonazi circles for decades. It’s historically wrong and actually antisemitic.
The holocaust is the name for this specific event and there has not in human history been a larger industrially organized murder of a people.
It’s kind of insane that this neonazi propaganda is now being adopted from what I assume are leftists.
fartsparkles@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 05:49
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You are blessed with a country with a functioning education system. It seems some countries only educate to the level of “Welcome to McDonald’s. Can I take your order?”
alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Apr 2025 06:36
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Yes, there has been. Neonazi propaganda is bad, but so is Zionist propaganda
The transatlantic slave trade put 12 million people on ships from Africa to the Americas. 2 million died and 10 million lived awful lives no better than that of the Jews in concentration camps.
Once you add their descendents (we don’t know the total number) we have 10s to 100s of millions of people living in work camps for 20 generations spanning 350 years.
Never has there been any compensation paid to descendants of slavery. Even today, there is still compensation paid to descendants of Holocaust victims, and the time difference between the end of slavery and the Holocaust is less than that between the Holocaust and today.
And it’s not just this one. Germany more or less ignores the genocide it committed in Namibia.
Even when it comes to WW2, the focus is always on the 6 million Jews and not the 20 million Slavs. Even though Slavs are a more homogeneous ethnic group than Jews. It was just inconvenient during the cold war to see the USSR and its citizens as a victim worthy of compensation.
And then finally, this live streamed genocide in Gaza. Which in some respects is worse than the Holocaust, even if the absolute number is lower.
My grandparents were resistance fighters in WW2. They knew Jews were being picked up and sent to camps, and they saved a few from that fate, but they didn’t know the truth about Auschwitz until after the war. The images were not publicly available in occupied Europe.
They were shocked. And the same is true for most Germans. The Nazi’s never had popular democratic support for the war and genocide.
But in Gaza, we can all see it. It is being denied, while being live streamed. The Israeli’s, Americans and the Germans can see the starving kids in Gaza and still provide popular democratic support to its continuation.
The Germans of WW2 never reached that level of moral depravity, only a few Nazi’s did.
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev
on 18 Apr 2025 07:24
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The transatlantic slave trade, horrible as it was, took hundreds of years to make its victims, and was not a campaign of targeted extermination. There was little to no care for the slaves’ lives, but their murder wasn’t the goal.
The Holocaust only lasted from 41 to 45. 6 million jews were murdered in a span of only 4 years. In a period of just 100 days 1,47 million jews were systematically targeted and exterminated. That’s nearly double the rate of the Rwandan genocide. It’s the same amount of people who died on board of the slave ships spanning from the 16th to the 19th century. No genocide in history has a higher death rate than that. 90+% of Polish jews were murdered, a near total extinction.
That’s what people refer to when they talk about the largest industrial genocide. No other genocide in our history has come close. The numbers do not lie, and calling the memory of the Holocaust “zionist propaganda” is pretty sickening. It’s not just zionists that claim this you know, reputable historians around the world do.
alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Apr 2025 07:32
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Did I say the slave trade was an industrial genocide?
You are cherry picking parameters to try and make the Holocaust some kind of unique tier of atrocity.
In the same time frame 20 million Slavs died.
On certain islands in the Caribbean, 100% of the native population was murdered and displaced, which is more than 90%.
Yes, there are certain aspects of the Holocaust that are unique, but it is not in a unique tier by itself. There are many metrics that make other atrocities worse.
homoludens@feddit.org
on 18 Apr 2025 08:17
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I don’t know how else to say it, but: the unique aspects of the Holocaust are what makes the Holocaust unique.
Making up “tiers” of mass murder or genocide is dehumanizing. There is no point in trying to compare these atrocities - except of course if someone wants to say e.g. “Well, the holocaust wasn’t that bad”.
alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Apr 2025 09:32
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This whole discussion is in the context that, in Germany and the Western world, the Holocaust is positioned as the worst thing that ever happened. And the Nazi’s as uniquely evil.
That’s the propaganda we are arguing against.
homoludens@feddit.org
on 18 Apr 2025 11:13
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Even if that is “the propaganda” (which I have not seen in this thread btw): your counterproposition is not to dispose of the whole one-dimensional “which atrocity is worse” bullshit, but instead formalizing it by speaking of tiers and arguing that the holocaust wasn’t that bad. That’s dehumanizing, has no value at all (it’s not like a “tier 2 genocide” it somehow more okay) and instead opens the doors for Nazi apologia and antisemtism and derails the discussion.
alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 19 Apr 2025 08:10
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I didn’t say that Holocaust wasn’t that bad, that’s you being racist.
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev
on 18 Apr 2025 08:27
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Did I say the slave trade was an industrial genocide?
Yes you did. The comment you replied to said:
The holocaust is the name for this specific event and there has not in human history been a larger industrially organized murder of a people.
You then replied with:
Yes, there has been. Neonazi propaganda is bad, but so is Zionist propaganda. The transatlantic slave trade put 12 million people on ships from Africa to the Americas.
alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Apr 2025 09:33
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I have chatbots with better reading comprehension than this.
Don’t cherry pick and misquote dude.
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev
on 18 Apr 2025 09:43
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Please explain what “Yes there has been” was referring to then.
alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 19 Apr 2025 08:10
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Go up three comments to read the full context. Like a normal human.
seeigel@feddit.org
on 18 Apr 2025 08:52
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there has not in human history been a larger industrially organized murder of a people.
In a period of just 100 days 1,47 million jews were systematically targeted and exterminated. That’s nearly double the rate of the Rwandan genocide.
If you put it like that Rwanda’s manual genocide sounds evilly impressive.
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev
on 18 Apr 2025 09:45
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Oh yes the Rwandan genocide really was incredibly brutal. If there had been a strong state apparatus I have little doubt that they could have matched the Holocaust rate. The intention was certainly there.
ubergeek@lemmy.today
on 18 Apr 2025 12:20
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Dying wasn’t the goal, for the concentration camps, either, generally. It was creation of a slave labor race. Generally, the ones who were exterminated right out where the ones incapable of work (In the German’s eyes).
Kinda the same with slavery. Incapable of hard labor Black people were just put down.
And is murdering them via forced labor different if it only happens in select camps, versus in the cotton fields? Is time frame a difference, really? 6 years to die vs 20 years to die… Honestly, the former is likely more “humane”…
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev
on 18 Apr 2025 15:27
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You don’t kill 1,47 million people in 100 days through working people to death. Those people were largely just exterminated, as Hitler also spoke of the “annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe”.
I think you may also be confusing the concentration camps with the extermination camps. Read up on en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard, millions were deported to one of six extermination camps the Nazis built. Or Aktion T4. There’s plenty of sources that show the intent was to kill, any slave labor was just a nice benefit.
Slaves you keep alive on purpose, because they’re no use of you dead. The Nazis did no such thing, because they preferred their victims dead.
ubergeek@lemmy.today
on 18 Apr 2025 18:00
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Yes, those 1.47 million were those deemed unfit for labor.
Nothing you said disagrees with what I said.
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev
on 18 Apr 2025 19:12
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Plenty of those people could have worked. Slave labor was not the primary purpose of the camps.
ubergeek@lemmy.today
on 18 Apr 2025 19:45
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I said they were deemed unfit. Like women and children, the elderly, etc. Of course, some women were kept for sex slaves, too. Others were kept for medical experimentation, etc etc.
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev
on 18 Apr 2025 20:02
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Again, that doesn’t mean the camps were built for slave labor. In fact, camps like Birkenau didn’t have slave labor when it was designed and built. It wasn’t even built near any industrial capacity. Almost none of the camps did. Only once the war with the Soviets started stagnating did the Nazis facilitate slave labor at a greater scale.
Auschwitz III was a slave labor camp. Earlier camps like Auschwitz II was an extermination camp.
You don’t build a slave labor camp with enough furnaces to burn half a million corpses per year, without facilities for the prisoners to do any labor.
homoludens@feddit.org
on 18 Apr 2025 07:30
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You need to provide sources. For example: most Germans knew about concentration camps and the mass murder (source).
UniversalBasicJustice@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Apr 2025 07:39
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10 million lived awful lives no better than that of the Jews in concentration camps.
Source?
living in work camps for 20 generations spanning 350 years.
Source?
Never has there been any compensation paid to descendants of slavery
I’ll let you have this one
Even today, there is still compensation paid to descendants of Holocaust victims, and the time difference between the end of slavery and the Holocaust is less than that between the Holocaust and today.
So? The US is in the wrong for not compensating, Germany is actually trying at least.
not the 20 million Slavs.
We’re discussing the Holocaust perpetuated by the Nazi regime against Jewish people and other so-called ‘undesireable’ humans, not Stalin’s crimes against the people he was ostensibly responsible for. Stay on topic.
Even though Slavs are a more homogeneous ethnic group than Jews. It was just inconvenient during the cold war to see the USSR and its citizens as a victim worthy of compensation.
Why are you using ethnic homogeneity as an argument in your favor? Especially when trying to minimize the Jewish Holocaust in favor of painting the USSR as the victim‽
The Nazi’s never had popular democratic support for the war and genocide
The Germans of WW2 never reached that level of moral depravity, only a few Nazi’s did
Source? Pretty sure we had some pretty public trials over those claims already.
I don’t even disagree with you about Gaza, you’ve just got incredibly shit takes on history.
torrentialgrain@lemm.ee
on 18 Apr 2025 15:14
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Holocaust is not just another word for genocide. It describes the systematic, industrialized killing of an entire ethnicity. Like modern industrial-capitalist logistic chains, the nazis optimized the KZs and their Hinterland for the maximum efficiency in killing Jews.
There has not been something like this in the entire history of humanity. Please educate yourself. I say that without judging you. I’m aware that there have been many other genocides, each one more terrible than one could put in words. And yes, Israel is committing on in Gaza right now, but that doesn’t diminish the enormous suffering of the Jewish people in the last century.
If what the Israeli government and army are doing right now makes you go “Well maybe the Holocaust wasn’t sooo bad, all things considered” then you have some real soul searching to do. Stop consuming propaganda.
alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 19 Apr 2025 08:08
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Dude, I never said the Holocaust ain’t bad.
You’re just a racist projecting your beliefs on others
torrentialgrain@lemm.ee
on 19 Apr 2025 12:32
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You have some serious problems with reading comprehension.
alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 20 Apr 2025 08:58
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And you’re a Nazi, just against brown people instead of Jews.
Same shit, different victims.
torrentialgrain@lemm.ee
on 20 Apr 2025 20:37
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You’ve been thoroughly beaten in argument and now you resort to low effort trolling. Take some time to reflect on yourself. What you are doing here is not normal and not healthy.
Good luck, I hope you get better.
alvvayson@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 20 Apr 2025 21:20
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I haven’t been beaten in an argument.
You are trying to lecture people on a historical genocide while whitewashing and denying a genocide that is happening before our very eyes.
That is truly sickening and not healthy. And it actually hurts people who are now dying and starving.
torrentialgrain@lemm.ee
on 21 Apr 2025 00:38
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I said word for word that Israel is guilty of a genocide.
Seek help, good luck.
torrentialgrain@lemm.ee
on 18 Apr 2025 15:23
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It blows my mind man. You are saying things that could come verbatim from a torch-carrying skinhead during a NPD rally in Dresden. Yet you call yourself a leftist according to your profile? How does that even happen?
The skinhead can be partially right about some things even if they’re monstrously wrong about the overall picture and what conclusions they draw. A neonazi would probably also say the earth is round, that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
What, in particular, did that poster say that is so wrong? Are their numbers off? Did the other genocides not happen?
edit: To be clear: I’m talking about the poster you’re replying to here, not the deleted post above b/c who even knows what that said.
torrentialgrain@lemm.ee
on 19 Apr 2025 05:55
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The poster I replied to literally said that Germans during the Holocaust were less morally depraved than today regarding Gaza. Let that sink in. Don’t just read over that phrase, really take a second to appreciate that they typed that out.
You ask what they’re wrong about… well pretty much everything, which he has in common with the hypothetical Dresden skinhead. Germans largely knew about the KZs and they didn’t care (or rather, pretended not to know and didn’t want to). This is actually a lie told all the time by German neonazis, that the Germans didn’t know what the regime they helped put in place was actually doing.
There is a movie that was released about this last year which you should definitely watch, called The Zone of Interest. It might make you feel sympathetic towards Jewish people though, I understand this is sort of a no-go with some people on this platform.
Also the whole construction is wrong (there have not been “many holocausts”) and again, this is something the extreme right will make you want to believe all the time - that it really wasn’t something that stands out in human history. I and many other posters have already pointed out why this is an enormous lie, extremely antisemitic and an extremely dangerous bending of history.
UniversalBasicJustice@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Apr 2025 07:08
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If his home instance is any indication, this absolutely tracks for the Midwest US. I grew up in the northern Midwest and drove past a Confederate flag frequently for the better part of 15 years. I got to thinking about it; I recognized it as a dog whistle for racism, but did the people who flew it so proudly recognize it as such?
And I realized they probably didn’t. They likely saw it as a ‘proud symbol of their good ole boy, “states rights fighters” Southern heritage.’ and frankly, that idea bothered me at a deeper level than if they were flying that flag as a dog-whistle.
The people of Germany have taken generational responsibility for the horrendous, genocidal 3rd Reich. They own it, they condemn it, and they do their best to combat misinformation about it.
Not so for the US. We tried, briefly, a little bit, to affect and promote Reconstruction. It failed pretty spectacularly thanks to Andrew Johnson’s vetoes. The ensuing decades saw white supremacists develop the Good Ole Boy myth, white-washing and denying the true reason they wanted to fracture the Union.
Jump to today; Germans arguing against anti-Semitism while the US is deporting brown people to concentration camps.
My passport arrived today, praise Satan. Trying to properly secure a work visa in the EU but will also have my bugout bag with documentation close at hand.
Speaking of; got any job opportunities for a 2 YOE mechanical engineer? Or advice on applying to Masters programs in Germany? I believe I can travel to and stay in the Schengen Zone for 90 days visa-free with the US passport, but I’m not sure if I’m able to convert that to a work permit.
Any EU friends able to help a worried AuDHD dude? I know zero people who have traveled internationally and I’m lost.
Arigion@feddit.org
on 18 Apr 2025 08:20
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UniversalBasicJustice@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Apr 2025 20:00
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Hey, this is excellent, thank you! Definitely going to chase this down.
huppakee@lemm.ee
on 18 Apr 2025 10:45
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You could register on couch surfing, it might be a good place to meet people once you start exploring options in Europe. You can also ask questions and advice, there is also events organised by people so it works a bit like a forum/ social media platform. You don’t have (the intent) to host or stay with someone to use it as as a source of local info:
www.couchsurfing.com
AFaithfulNihilist@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 11:57
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Germany is supporting Israel and it’s ongoing genocide. You’re not in much of a position to shake your finger.
Germany is not doing much better in the anti-Semitism department considering that Palestinians are semites and Germany has made it illegal to criticize Israel.
UniversalBasicJustice@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Apr 2025 20:06
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I’m not German dude, I’m an American.
The support behind Israel in their genocide of the Palestinians is despicable.
Any support of any genocide anywhere is despicable.
Can we please stop excusing crimes against humanity when they happen to people we don’t like?
randomname@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Apr 2025 16:12
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Well I’m sure as hell not gonna forget, can they just stop already
blazeknave@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 15:40
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You know the majority of Jews aren’t Israeli right?
trotfox@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 17:55
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The single down vote is clearly a zionist lmao.
blazeknave@lemmy.world
on 19 Apr 2025 17:13
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The 16 downvotes are a fantastic reminder that the “hur dur hating genocide is antisemitism” might actually have some antisemitic truth. The left version of “you can’t say anything funny anymore.” Lots of useful idiots on the left too, that don’t realize they’re just saying “America is run by the Jews” with different language.
njm1314@lemmy.world
on 19 Apr 2025 01:46
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7.2 million out of 15.8 worldwide. Not a majority but the plurality. Another 6.8 in America, a country basically run by Israeli interests.
LeninOnAPrayer@lemm.ee
on 19 Apr 2025 02:53
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I’ll give the benefit of the doubt here. But if you’re at all “leftist” and attribute America to being run by “Israel” you should really understand who’s framing you are repeating here.
America is not “run by Israeli interest”. It is run by the interest of capital and for the interest of capital. American capitalist are absolutely the ones running, encouraging, and most of all enabling the actions of Israel. And they hide behind “creating a safe place for Jews” like we don’t all understand it’s just another madagascar plan.
Please don’t fall for this “Israel runs America”. Especially trying to attribute all Jewish Americans to supporting Israel.
Israel IS American interest. And that interest is for a white supremacists capitalist class. Using Antisemitism as a shield will only last for so long. These Nazi’s are going to drop that real quick and start “sending Jews to Israel where they can be safe” before we know it.
And if it wasn’t clear. The people that say America is “run by Israel” are Nazis. And the Nazi leaders running this country will quickly start singing that same song when they are done using antisemitism/Israel as reason to deport Muslims and anyone supporting Palestine.
Please don’t let fascist fool you. The Israeli fascist do not care about Jews and neither do the American fascist. They both only care about creating their own fascist ethnostates.
blazeknave@lemmy.world
on 19 Apr 2025 17:25
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“the Jews run America” is definitely not white supremacist propaganda. Definitely the attitude of people who typically care about brown babies and journalists being murdered. Come on son. Let me hear your leftist thoughts on George Soros. Oroboros tail eating dumb shit useful idiotic racist motherfucker.
Also, more than half is enough to qualify for a false equivocation. So, no, with your fuzzy math.
inbeesee@lemmy.world
on 25 Apr 2025 16:00
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It’s a tough thing to distinguish between people who hate Israel for the genocide, and people who hate Israel for the Jews. If you hate Jews you fucking suck. If you’re pro-Israel genocide you fucking suck.
Why can’t we hate the behavior of a country distinctly from the people it makes up.
Put Your Soul on Your Hand and Walk directed by Sepideh Farsi
hedhoncho@lemm.ee
on 18 Apr 2025 05:36
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They’re so scared of their image. Thats why I tarnish mine to stop this madness. Palestinians land was stolen. Israel is the rich entitled side and Palestine gets silenced and stripped of everything. It’s so sad they can’t just share.
alecbowles@lemm.ee
on 18 Apr 2025 05:52
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Another day another heartbreak. How do we measure this kind of loss.
By how many Palestinians (that are still alive) can’t go back to their generational homes.
Or by how many authentic homes are on Airbnb in Israel
I’d say numbers of civilian killed, but Israel has made it impossible to get accurate numbers as they’re painting everyone a target with a racial brush
Whatever flavour of colonialism and dystopia you want to taste
Kbobabob@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 09:14
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So what are Republicans and the Trump administration doing to stop Israel?
DandomRude@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 09:41
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Absolutely nothing - on the contrary, they even supply the weapons with which these shameful murders are committed.
And Trump and his band of criminals are not even alone in this - my home country, Germany, is also aiding and abetting these terrible war crimes.
I simply cannot understand how a country like Israel, which is actually completely irrelevant on the world stage, not only gets away with genocide, but is even supported by many of those countries that otherwise always play the moralizer.
The only way I can explain this is that the fascist regime in Israel is taking advantage of the fact that this country is a leader in surveillance and espionage technology. Other than by blackmailing foreign state representatives, I simply cannot explain why so many countries persist in supporting all these terrible atrocities - in democratic countries even against the will of the people and at the massive expense of votes.
I’m aware that this is conspiracy theory, but I simply can’t explain it any other way because it is so incredibly absurd and shameful.
I mean, Bibi has long been the subject of an arrest warrant issued by the International Criminal Courts.
It is of course quite clear that no government official in the USA is interested in this, but the fact that European countries, which recognize this intuition as binding, are also thinking about how Netanyahu could be invited as a state guest without having to arrest him immediately is simply telling. And then also supplying weapons to a war criminal?
Israel is not irrelevant on the world stage. They are a major intelligence asset. Nobody comes close to what they can do. And America knows this. They have been enabling Israel all these years hoping to keep that asset on their side. The second we turn on Israel they become a mercenary operation for our enemies.
There’s not really any way to win with Israel. They are assholes. They shouldn’t exist in the first place. And we continue to play nice with them while they kill everyone around them and threaten anyone who dares question them.
Israel is not irrelevant on the world stage. They are a major intelligence asset. Nobody comes close to what they can do
Thats the utterly BS mystique zionists like to cultivate. You have no proof at all of it-- You’re just parroting hasbara propoganda.
All I see day in and day out on the news is vicious Israeli war crimes, indiscriminate violence, and land theft for 80 years and the anger caused by it.
If the Israelis DO have any intelligence, its unreliable due to their rampant of torture, and it’ll be about their enemies (not ours), and visciously slanted by their insane worldview and transparent attempts at manipulation of the west to their advantage.
Israels enemies are not the enemies of the west. All we care about in that region is oil and shipping lanes. Israel wants to steal land and kill muslims. The west has every reason not to care about that, and no gain to join in it… So we arent even strategic allies. Israelis are rich barbarian cultists who buy influence. We need to dump them, despite their so called “intelligence”.
index@sh.itjust.works
on 18 Apr 2025 10:46
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The US government has been supporting and arming israel for decades, haven’t you learn already?
GeeDubHayduke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 18 Apr 2025 13:08
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They kept Harris from office, thus saving all Palestinians!
If Harris were in office, there would be people dying in Gaza right now!!
Crikeste@lemm.ee
on 18 Apr 2025 15:37
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What about this is new? America has allowed Israel to do this for decades. I guess it helped you feel better deluding yourself that this is somehow Trump’s fault, and not the American agenda as a whole that has bipartisan support.
Who was president when Shireen Abu Akleh was murdered in cold blood?
He also has put super high tariffs on the components to build most of Israel’s weapons!
Iceman@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 10:47
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I’m so fucking tired of our western politicians and media pretending that Israel isn’t one of the nastiest and most evil state on this planet. Spineless fucking cowards the lot of them.
ICastFist@programming.dev
on 18 Apr 2025 14:03
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You see atrocities, usa govt sees free military bases near lots of oil reserves
InverseParallax@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 19:57
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The govt might.
But what really matters is how much evangelicals want all jews in one place to tempt Jesus to come back and nuke israel all in revenge before he raptures them all up in his spaceship.
I’ve know sbc who basically drool when they talk about it.
There is measures everyone can take by speaking up, holding political representatives accountable, boycotting Israeli products or products by companies complicit in Israeli crimes, by demonstrating, by organizing and by educating ourselves.
As an individual we have little power. As a collective we have more than enough power, which is why it is crucial never to become defeatist.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 14:04
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muusemuuse@lemm.ee
on 18 Apr 2025 20:49
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This was intentional.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world
on 18 Apr 2025 22:33
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Her family home was specifically targeted so yeah. Israel wants to send a message that they will kill your entire family for reporting on their genocide.
Anomalocaris@lemm.ee
on 20 Apr 2025 06:34
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when you intentionally murder everyone, they will argue that they didn’t specifically target anyone, because they don’t care about the specific people they are killing.
Terrorism on Israels part, in the truest definition of the word. Israel truly does not deserve to be recognized as a state, and western leaders should be on the floor of the hague in chains.
threaded - newest
Read this article if you want to feel horrible and powerless
Sucks but our only real power is remembering this and reminding others that it’s happening.
Well… there is one or two things you can do that you cannot mention here.
God I fucking hate Israel they’ve really taken the stage as God-awful monsters and I hate seeing this play out day after day SHIT
I’m here with you bro, I feel the same. I really felt that last “SHIT”. 🤝🫂
Considering I live in the US I just feel paralyzed about what to do. I want to be a Mushroom Kingdom champion but I’m not armed, I don’t even like violence, and I have two kids to protect. But I’m so sick of the twisted fucked up leaders making all these power grabs and massacres.
We all are, you’re not alone. ❤️ I’m also a father of two young boys. Ain’t no way I’m ready to go fight a war and die and leave them without a father. I’d rather flee, like a coward, just to be with them and so they won’t lose me.
But don’t anyone say that Israel is doing anything bad, or you’ll be deported to a concentration camp for your antisemitic terrorism, without trial.
Wow… just wow…
It’s heartbreaking and enraging.
We’re essentially at the point where the Israeli government could justify the Holocaust as long as the Nazis said “Hamas officers hiding among them” before killing people. The genocide is not only cruel but a callous waste of life, hope and talent.
What the fuck dude.
All the fuck.
Nah. I mean I’m German and what you’re saying is literally what we’ve been hearing from Neonazi circles for decades. It’s historically wrong and actually antisemitic.
The holocaust is the name for this specific event and there has not in human history been a larger industrially organized murder of a people.
It’s kind of insane that this neonazi propaganda is now being adopted from what I assume are leftists.
You are blessed with a country with a functioning education system. It seems some countries only educate to the level of “Welcome to McDonald’s. Can I take your order?”
Yes, there has been. Neonazi propaganda is bad, but so is Zionist propaganda
The transatlantic slave trade put 12 million people on ships from Africa to the Americas. 2 million died and 10 million lived awful lives no better than that of the Jews in concentration camps.
Once you add their descendents (we don’t know the total number) we have 10s to 100s of millions of people living in work camps for 20 generations spanning 350 years.
Never has there been any compensation paid to descendants of slavery. Even today, there is still compensation paid to descendants of Holocaust victims, and the time difference between the end of slavery and the Holocaust is less than that between the Holocaust and today.
And it’s not just this one. Germany more or less ignores the genocide it committed in Namibia.
Even when it comes to WW2, the focus is always on the 6 million Jews and not the 20 million Slavs. Even though Slavs are a more homogeneous ethnic group than Jews. It was just inconvenient during the cold war to see the USSR and its citizens as a victim worthy of compensation.
And then finally, this live streamed genocide in Gaza. Which in some respects is worse than the Holocaust, even if the absolute number is lower.
My grandparents were resistance fighters in WW2. They knew Jews were being picked up and sent to camps, and they saved a few from that fate, but they didn’t know the truth about Auschwitz until after the war. The images were not publicly available in occupied Europe. They were shocked. And the same is true for most Germans. The Nazi’s never had popular democratic support for the war and genocide.
But in Gaza, we can all see it. It is being denied, while being live streamed. The Israeli’s, Americans and the Germans can see the starving kids in Gaza and still provide popular democratic support to its continuation.
The Germans of WW2 never reached that level of moral depravity, only a few Nazi’s did.
The transatlantic slave trade, horrible as it was, took hundreds of years to make its victims, and was not a campaign of targeted extermination. There was little to no care for the slaves’ lives, but their murder wasn’t the goal.
The Holocaust only lasted from 41 to 45. 6 million jews were murdered in a span of only 4 years. In a period of just 100 days 1,47 million jews were systematically targeted and exterminated. That’s nearly double the rate of the Rwandan genocide. It’s the same amount of people who died on board of the slave ships spanning from the 16th to the 19th century. No genocide in history has a higher death rate than that. 90+% of Polish jews were murdered, a near total extinction.
That’s what people refer to when they talk about the largest industrial genocide. No other genocide in our history has come close. The numbers do not lie, and calling the memory of the Holocaust “zionist propaganda” is pretty sickening. It’s not just zionists that claim this you know, reputable historians around the world do.
Did I say the slave trade was an industrial genocide?
You are cherry picking parameters to try and make the Holocaust some kind of unique tier of atrocity.
In the same time frame 20 million Slavs died.
On certain islands in the Caribbean, 100% of the native population was murdered and displaced, which is more than 90%.
Yes, there are certain aspects of the Holocaust that are unique, but it is not in a unique tier by itself. There are many metrics that make other atrocities worse.
I don’t know how else to say it, but: the unique aspects of the Holocaust are what makes the Holocaust unique.
Making up “tiers” of mass murder or genocide is dehumanizing. There is no point in trying to compare these atrocities - except of course if someone wants to say e.g. “Well, the holocaust wasn’t that bad”.
This whole discussion is in the context that, in Germany and the Western world, the Holocaust is positioned as the worst thing that ever happened. And the Nazi’s as uniquely evil.
That’s the propaganda we are arguing against.
Even if that is “the propaganda” (which I have not seen in this thread btw): your counterproposition is not to dispose of the whole one-dimensional “which atrocity is worse” bullshit, but instead formalizing it by speaking of tiers and arguing that the holocaust wasn’t that bad. That’s dehumanizing, has no value at all (it’s not like a “tier 2 genocide” it somehow more okay) and instead opens the doors for Nazi apologia and antisemtism and derails the discussion.
I didn’t say that Holocaust wasn’t that bad, that’s you being racist.
Yes you did. The comment you replied to said:
You then replied with:
I have chatbots with better reading comprehension than this.
Don’t cherry pick and misquote dude.
Please explain what “Yes there has been” was referring to then.
Go up three comments to read the full context. Like a normal human.
If you put it like that Rwanda’s manual genocide sounds evilly impressive.
Oh yes the Rwandan genocide really was incredibly brutal. If there had been a strong state apparatus I have little doubt that they could have matched the Holocaust rate. The intention was certainly there.
Dying wasn’t the goal, for the concentration camps, either, generally. It was creation of a slave labor race. Generally, the ones who were exterminated right out where the ones incapable of work (In the German’s eyes).
Kinda the same with slavery. Incapable of hard labor Black people were just put down.
And is murdering them via forced labor different if it only happens in select camps, versus in the cotton fields? Is time frame a difference, really? 6 years to die vs 20 years to die… Honestly, the former is likely more “humane”…
You don’t kill 1,47 million people in 100 days through working people to death. Those people were largely just exterminated, as Hitler also spoke of the “annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe”.
I think you may also be confusing the concentration camps with the extermination camps. Read up on en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Reinhard, millions were deported to one of six extermination camps the Nazis built. Or Aktion T4. There’s plenty of sources that show the intent was to kill, any slave labor was just a nice benefit.
Slaves you keep alive on purpose, because they’re no use of you dead. The Nazis did no such thing, because they preferred their victims dead.
Yes, those 1.47 million were those deemed unfit for labor.
Nothing you said disagrees with what I said.
Plenty of those people could have worked. Slave labor was not the primary purpose of the camps.
I said they were deemed unfit. Like women and children, the elderly, etc. Of course, some women were kept for sex slaves, too. Others were kept for medical experimentation, etc etc.
Again, that doesn’t mean the camps were built for slave labor. In fact, camps like Birkenau didn’t have slave labor when it was designed and built. It wasn’t even built near any industrial capacity. Almost none of the camps did. Only once the war with the Soviets started stagnating did the Nazis facilitate slave labor at a greater scale.
Auschwitz III was a slave labor camp. Earlier camps like Auschwitz II was an extermination camp.
You don’t build a slave labor camp with enough furnaces to burn half a million corpses per year, without facilities for the prisoners to do any labor.
You need to provide sources. For example: most Germans knew about concentration camps and the mass murder (source).
Source?
Source?
I’ll let you have this one
So? The US is in the wrong for not compensating, Germany is actually trying at least.
We’re discussing the Holocaust perpetuated by the Nazi regime against Jewish people and other so-called ‘undesireable’ humans, not Stalin’s crimes against the people he was ostensibly responsible for. Stay on topic.
Why are you using ethnic homogeneity as an argument in your favor? Especially when trying to minimize the Jewish Holocaust in favor of painting the USSR as the victim‽
Source? Pretty sure we had some pretty public trials over those claims already.
I don’t even disagree with you about Gaza, you’ve just got incredibly shit takes on history.
Holocaust is not just another word for genocide. It describes the systematic, industrialized killing of an entire ethnicity. Like modern industrial-capitalist logistic chains, the nazis optimized the KZs and their Hinterland for the maximum efficiency in killing Jews.
There has not been something like this in the entire history of humanity. Please educate yourself. I say that without judging you. I’m aware that there have been many other genocides, each one more terrible than one could put in words. And yes, Israel is committing on in Gaza right now, but that doesn’t diminish the enormous suffering of the Jewish people in the last century.
If what the Israeli government and army are doing right now makes you go “Well maybe the Holocaust wasn’t sooo bad, all things considered” then you have some real soul searching to do. Stop consuming propaganda.
Dude, I never said the Holocaust ain’t bad.
You’re just a racist projecting your beliefs on others
You have some serious problems with reading comprehension.
And you’re a Nazi, just against brown people instead of Jews.
Same shit, different victims.
You’ve been thoroughly beaten in argument and now you resort to low effort trolling. Take some time to reflect on yourself. What you are doing here is not normal and not healthy.
Good luck, I hope you get better.
I haven’t been beaten in an argument.
You are trying to lecture people on a historical genocide while whitewashing and denying a genocide that is happening before our very eyes.
That is truly sickening and not healthy. And it actually hurts people who are now dying and starving.
I said word for word that Israel is guilty of a genocide.
Seek help, good luck.
It blows my mind man. You are saying things that could come verbatim from a torch-carrying skinhead during a NPD rally in Dresden. Yet you call yourself a leftist according to your profile? How does that even happen?
The skinhead can be partially right about some things even if they’re monstrously wrong about the overall picture and what conclusions they draw. A neonazi would probably also say the earth is round, that doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
What, in particular, did that poster say that is so wrong? Are their numbers off? Did the other genocides not happen?
edit: To be clear: I’m talking about the poster you’re replying to here, not the deleted post above b/c who even knows what that said.
The poster I replied to literally said that Germans during the Holocaust were less morally depraved than today regarding Gaza. Let that sink in. Don’t just read over that phrase, really take a second to appreciate that they typed that out.
You ask what they’re wrong about… well pretty much everything, which he has in common with the hypothetical Dresden skinhead. Germans largely knew about the KZs and they didn’t care (or rather, pretended not to know and didn’t want to). This is actually a lie told all the time by German neonazis, that the Germans didn’t know what the regime they helped put in place was actually doing.
There is a movie that was released about this last year which you should definitely watch, called The Zone of Interest. It might make you feel sympathetic towards Jewish people though, I understand this is sort of a no-go with some people on this platform.
Also the whole construction is wrong (there have not been “many holocausts”) and again, this is something the extreme right will make you want to believe all the time - that it really wasn’t something that stands out in human history. I and many other posters have already pointed out why this is an enormous lie, extremely antisemitic and an extremely dangerous bending of history.
If his home instance is any indication, this absolutely tracks for the Midwest US. I grew up in the northern Midwest and drove past a Confederate flag frequently for the better part of 15 years. I got to thinking about it; I recognized it as a dog whistle for racism, but did the people who flew it so proudly recognize it as such?
And I realized they probably didn’t. They likely saw it as a ‘proud symbol of their good ole boy, “states rights fighters” Southern heritage.’ and frankly, that idea bothered me at a deeper level than if they were flying that flag as a dog-whistle.
The people of Germany have taken generational responsibility for the horrendous, genocidal 3rd Reich. They own it, they condemn it, and they do their best to combat misinformation about it.
Not so for the US. We tried, briefly, a little bit, to affect and promote Reconstruction. It failed pretty spectacularly thanks to Andrew Johnson’s vetoes. The ensuing decades saw white supremacists develop the Good Ole Boy myth, white-washing and denying the true reason they wanted to fracture the Union.
Jump to today; Germans arguing against anti-Semitism while the US is deporting brown people to concentration camps.
My passport arrived today, praise Satan. Trying to properly secure a work visa in the EU but will also have my bugout bag with documentation close at hand.
Speaking of; got any job opportunities for a 2 YOE mechanical engineer? Or advice on applying to Masters programs in Germany? I believe I can travel to and stay in the Schengen Zone for 90 days visa-free with the US passport, but I’m not sure if I’m able to convert that to a work permit.
Any EU friends able to help a worried AuDHD dude? I know zero people who have traveled internationally and I’m lost.
Have a look: make-it-in-germany.com/…/job-search-opportunity-c…
Hey, this is excellent, thank you! Definitely going to chase this down.
You could register on couch surfing, it might be a good place to meet people once you start exploring options in Europe. You can also ask questions and advice, there is also events organised by people so it works a bit like a forum/ social media platform. You don’t have (the intent) to host or stay with someone to use it as as a source of local info: www.couchsurfing.com
Also maybe this is valuable (maybe less if you’re only interested in moving around in the Schengen area): passportindex.org/…/united-states-of-america/
Germany is supporting Israel and it’s ongoing genocide. You’re not in much of a position to shake your finger.
Germany is not doing much better in the anti-Semitism department considering that Palestinians are semites and Germany has made it illegal to criticize Israel.
I’m not German dude, I’m an American.
The support behind Israel in their genocide of the Palestinians is despicable.
Any support of any genocide anywhere is despicable.
Can we please stop excusing crimes against humanity when they happen to people we don’t like?
Belgian congo
Are you a bot or just an uneducated wanna-be historian of the internet trying to teach people shit you have no expertise about?
No one has sullied the memory of the holocaust more than Israel
They’re just trying to make sure everyone remembers with holocaust 2.0
Well I’m sure as hell not gonna forget, can they just stop already
You know the majority of Jews aren’t Israeli right?
The single down vote is clearly a zionist lmao.
The 16 downvotes are a fantastic reminder that the “hur dur hating genocide is antisemitism” might actually have some antisemitic truth. The left version of “you can’t say anything funny anymore.” Lots of useful idiots on the left too, that don’t realize they’re just saying “America is run by the Jews” with different language.
7.2 million out of 15.8 worldwide. Not a majority but the plurality. Another 6.8 in America, a country basically run by Israeli interests.
I’ll give the benefit of the doubt here. But if you’re at all “leftist” and attribute America to being run by “Israel” you should really understand who’s framing you are repeating here.
America is not “run by Israeli interest”. It is run by the interest of capital and for the interest of capital. American capitalist are absolutely the ones running, encouraging, and most of all enabling the actions of Israel. And they hide behind “creating a safe place for Jews” like we don’t all understand it’s just another madagascar plan.
Please don’t fall for this “Israel runs America”. Especially trying to attribute all Jewish Americans to supporting Israel.
Israel IS American interest. And that interest is for a white supremacists capitalist class. Using Antisemitism as a shield will only last for so long. These Nazi’s are going to drop that real quick and start “sending Jews to Israel where they can be safe” before we know it.
And if it wasn’t clear. The people that say America is “run by Israel” are Nazis. And the Nazi leaders running this country will quickly start singing that same song when they are done using antisemitism/Israel as reason to deport Muslims and anyone supporting Palestine.
Please don’t let fascist fool you. The Israeli fascist do not care about Jews and neither do the American fascist. They both only care about creating their own fascist ethnostates.
“the Jews run America” is definitely not white supremacist propaganda. Definitely the attitude of people who typically care about brown babies and journalists being murdered. Come on son. Let me hear your leftist thoughts on George Soros. Oroboros tail eating dumb shit useful idiotic racist motherfucker.
Also, more than half is enough to qualify for a false equivocation. So, no, with your fuzzy math.
It’s a tough thing to distinguish between people who hate Israel for the genocide, and people who hate Israel for the Jews. If you hate Jews you fucking suck. If you’re pro-Israel genocide you fucking suck. Why can’t we hate the behavior of a country distinctly from the people it makes up.
Put Your Soul on Your Hand and Walk directed by Sepideh Farsi
They’re so scared of their image. Thats why I tarnish mine to stop this madness. Palestinians land was stolen. Israel is the rich entitled side and Palestine gets silenced and stripped of everything. It’s so sad they can’t just share.
Another day another heartbreak. How do we measure this kind of loss.
By how many Palestinians (that are still alive) can’t go back to their generational homes.
Or by how many authentic homes are on Airbnb in Israel
I’d say numbers of civilian killed, but Israel has made it impossible to get accurate numbers as they’re painting everyone a target with a racial brush
Whatever flavour of colonialism and dystopia you want to taste
So what are Republicans and the Trump administration doing to stop Israel?
Absolutely nothing - on the contrary, they even supply the weapons with which these shameful murders are committed.
And Trump and his band of criminals are not even alone in this - my home country, Germany, is also aiding and abetting these terrible war crimes.
I simply cannot understand how a country like Israel, which is actually completely irrelevant on the world stage, not only gets away with genocide, but is even supported by many of those countries that otherwise always play the moralizer.
The only way I can explain this is that the fascist regime in Israel is taking advantage of the fact that this country is a leader in surveillance and espionage technology. Other than by blackmailing foreign state representatives, I simply cannot explain why so many countries persist in supporting all these terrible atrocities - in democratic countries even against the will of the people and at the massive expense of votes.
I’m aware that this is conspiracy theory, but I simply can’t explain it any other way because it is so incredibly absurd and shameful.
I mean, Bibi has long been the subject of an arrest warrant issued by the International Criminal Courts.
It is of course quite clear that no government official in the USA is interested in this, but the fact that European countries, which recognize this intuition as binding, are also thinking about how Netanyahu could be invited as a state guest without having to arrest him immediately is simply telling. And then also supplying weapons to a war criminal?
How?
Israel is not irrelevant on the world stage. They are a major intelligence asset. Nobody comes close to what they can do. And America knows this. They have been enabling Israel all these years hoping to keep that asset on their side. The second we turn on Israel they become a mercenary operation for our enemies.
There’s not really any way to win with Israel. They are assholes. They shouldn’t exist in the first place. And we continue to play nice with them while they kill everyone around them and threaten anyone who dares question them.
Thats the utterly BS mystique zionists like to cultivate. You have no proof at all of it-- You’re just parroting hasbara propoganda.
All I see day in and day out on the news is vicious Israeli war crimes, indiscriminate violence, and land theft for 80 years and the anger caused by it.
If the Israelis DO have any intelligence, its unreliable due to their rampant of torture, and it’ll be about their enemies (not ours), and visciously slanted by their insane worldview and transparent attempts at manipulation of the west to their advantage.
Israels enemies are not the enemies of the west. All we care about in that region is oil and shipping lanes. Israel wants to steal land and kill muslims. The west has every reason not to care about that, and no gain to join in it… So we arent even strategic allies. Israelis are rich barbarian cultists who buy influence. We need to dump them, despite their so called “intelligence”.
The US government has been supporting and arming israel for decades, haven’t you learn already?
They kept Harris from office, thus saving all Palestinians!
If Harris were in office, there would be people dying in Gaza right now!!
What about this is new? America has allowed Israel to do this for decades. I guess it helped you feel better deluding yourself that this is somehow Trump’s fault, and not the American agenda as a whole that has bipartisan support.
Who was president when Shireen Abu Akleh was murdered in cold blood?
Sycophantic partisanship. Great job.
It’s a uniparty with factions. Call it for what it actually is.
I meant their kneejerk reaction to blaming Trump is partisan, not the genocide.
Quite a lot.
Trump us destroying the international standing of Israel’s strongest ally, this should count for something.
So Trump is a real friend of Palestine, you should say thank you.
He also has put super high tariffs on the components to build most of Israel’s weapons!
I’m so fucking tired of our western politicians and media pretending that Israel isn’t one of the nastiest and most evil state on this planet. Spineless fucking cowards the lot of them.
You see atrocities, usa govt sees free military bases near lots of oil reserves
The govt might.
But what really matters is how much evangelicals want all jews in one place to tempt Jesus to come back and nuke israel all in revenge before he raptures them all up in his spaceship.
I’ve know sbc who basically drool when they talk about it.
Those guys are just so fucking insane.
Can we cool it with the atrocities for a bit?
That statement suggests anyone on here has some kind of power to prevent it. If wishing/praying worked then it would have never happened.
that’s because religion is a construct to control the masses.
this is why we’re seeing progressives being targeted in America with harsh religious overtones.
Yeah but it’s a relatable sentiment, one I identify with personally as well. Maybe that can be the point
There is measures everyone can take by speaking up, holding political representatives accountable, boycotting Israeli products or products by companies complicit in Israeli crimes, by demonstrating, by organizing and by educating ourselves.
As an individual we have little power. As a collective we have more than enough power, which is why it is crucial never to become defeatist.
Israeli Gaza bombing
This is where you can check if your representative takes money from Israel www.trackaipac.com/congress
This was intentional.
Her family home was specifically targeted so yeah. Israel wants to send a message that they will kill your entire family for reporting on their genocide.
when you intentionally murder everyone, they will argue that they didn’t specifically target anyone, because they don’t care about the specific people they are killing.
Now even more people will want to watch the film.
Terrorism on Israels part, in the truest definition of the word. Israel truly does not deserve to be recognized as a state, and western leaders should be on the floor of the hague in chains.