“No free speech, no deal. It is as simple as that,” the Washington source said.
Hmm. If that’s correct, that’s interesting. I wonder if similar criteria might apply to other countries to which he’s talking on trade.
It looks like in the past few years, in the EU, there’s been effort to require member states to prohibit hate speech. I’m not sure if that’s gone through.
Criminalising Hate Crime and Hate Speech at EU Level: Extending the List of Eurocrimes Under Article 83(1) TFEU
In September 2020, President von der Leyen announced the Commission’s intention to propose to extend the list of EU crimes or Eurocrimes to all forms of hate crime and hate speech, as later reflected in the Commission Work Programme 2021.
In the US, member states may not prohibit hate speech; hate speech is not a legal concept here, and speech that might be classified as hate speech elsewhere is protected under the First Amendment.
EDIT: Though there is a related concept in the US of a “hate crime”. A crime’s sentence — and the crime itself cannot simply be engaging in speech — may be elevated if done when the motivation is hate against some protected groups. That is, the First Amendment would prohibit any form of government ban on saying saying “transexuals are abhorrent”. But it is permissible in the US to pass a law to punish someone who physically assaults a transexual person, not merely for their assault, but also for performing assault with a specific motivation, if that motivation can be shown to be that the victim was transexual.
Hate crime laws in the United States are state and federal laws which are intended to protect people from hate crimes (also known as bias crimes). While state laws vary, current statutes permit federal prosecution of hate crimes committed on the basis of a person’s characteristics of race, religion, ethnicity, disability, nationality, gender, sexual orientation, and/or gender identity.
Forty-seven states and the District of Columbia have statutes criminalizing various types of bias-motivated violence or intimidation (the exceptions being Arkansas, South Carolina, and Wyoming).
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Apr 12:39
collapse
How much of that effort to prohibit “hate” speech in the EU isn’t just the Germans supporting the Zionist Regime by claiming that criticism of it and their actions is “hate speech” in very much the same way as the Trump Regime claims that criticism of his own regime’s actions is hate and even terrorism, and trying to get it in place EU-wide using the EU institutions as a backdoor?
The EU isn’t exactly immune to the subversion of Humanitarianism and Rule of Law coming from Fascist regimes, especially when one of its leading countries, Germany, is quickly sliding back to it’s old ways, this time around under Zionist (an ethno-Fascist ideology, sames as the Nazis) puppet strings.
I’m definitely pro-EU, which is why I think we need to be very aware of the rotten apples we have in this basket and their attempts at spreading their rot.
N0body@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Apr 04:42
nextcollapse
What exactly do LGBT issues have to do with trade policy? Why is this on the table? Is there supposed to be some big gay conspiracy to devalue currency or something? It’s all so idiotic.
I’d guess that it’s probably broader than LGBT issues, if they’re taking — and the article is not clear on this, and the source anonymous — issue with hate speech laws in general.
torrentialgrain@lemm.ee
on 17 Apr 04:49
nextcollapse
5: Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”
12: Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”
It’s an attempt to normalize the fear/hate of LGBTQ+ people on an international level. As long as the administration continues to constantly press this issue, much like the “mere exposure” advertising effect, it doesn’t matter if people believe it nor not, the more times people hear a thing, the more likely they are to adopt that belief or feeling, even to a tiny degree.
That tiny degree, when continually pressed, when continually exposed, over large populations, influences a large number of people.
As long as they have an enemy group they can pin their problems on, they will keep going and keep ramping up the atrocities until we see mass graves. Again. (Seriously, how many times do we have to see mass graves in our nations before we decide that our leadership needs to be thrown down a well.)
If you guys care, please don’t just rant on Lemmy or other internet spaces. Go talk to your family members. Talk to your friends. If you don’t have friends, GO MAKE FRIENDS. GO MAKE ENEMIES. Our anti-social, paranoid, self-absorbed internet shut-in culture is making all of this tragedy possible.
Guys, you HAVE to push through those terrifying feelings of engaging with strangers. You HAVE to get social again. We don’t win this behind keyboards.
Look at all that free speech the USA has, where people are being disappeared to an overseas concentration camp for saying genocide is wrong, or having the FBI investigate them for speaking critically about Trump, or imprisoned at the border for criticizing him online. Whereas in the UK, these days you get arrested and thrown in jail if you say you’re English, don’t you?
nogooduser@lemmy.world
on 17 Apr 07:11
nextcollapse
“No free speech, no deal. It is as simple as that,”
So he’s going to push this condition onto everyone that they deal with right? Saudi Arabia and Israel for example.
ProvableGecko@lemmy.world
on 17 Apr 07:32
nextcollapse
Israel is USA, and SA can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they pay up (i.e. produce oil, buy weapons, whatever).
IMO, everyone in UK should be protesting and demanding to rejoin EU. Russia successfully was able to make UK withdraw through disinformation, and this only made UK weaker.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 17 Apr 12:29
collapse
Remember Cambridge Analitica, most of whose money came from wealthy Americans?
Maybe they were or maybe they weren’t in cahoots with Russia, but sure as hell it was the very same members of the American “elites” who supported Trump’s rise who also bought Brexit.
Britain’s careless openness to American influence makes it easy for Americans to play it like a fiddle.
Destroying the transatlantic alliance is probably the main goal of putin's US regime.
Embolden the UK's right wing parties who are largely putinists or deliver yet another blow to transatlantic relations. Yet another example of trump delivering a win-win for putin that's a lose-lose for the US.
JustJack23@slrpnk.net
on 17 Apr 05:53
nextcollapse
We must throw our people under the bus, and that will allow us to lick some US boots!
I think what @Naich@lemmings.world means is that the recent UK Supreme Court ruling gives some cover to Starmer, allowing him to pin some of the dissatisfaction with his eventual acquiescence to US pressure on the judiciary (even though Labour, being in control of the legislature, could fix the laws instead of washing their hands…).
And also the correct thing, from any position of reason.
Trying to control the way other countries are run is fucking wild, the notion of which should never even be remotely entertained.
SaltSong@startrek.website
on 17 Apr 12:41
collapse
Trying to control the way other countries are run is fucking wild, the notion of which should never even be remotely entertained.
In happier times, we call the process “diplomacy,” and mostly limit it to things that affect us, directly or indirectly.
But pressuring other countries to, for example, clean up their corruption so we can reliably do business with them is common. (Also hilariously hypocritical) Pressuring other countries to enact civil rights laws is fairly common, too.
I have to admit, seeing pressure to remove civil rights is unusual, at least from countries not named UAE.
Diplomacy is fine, but the US wanting to change something in the UK that is neither a humanitarian issue or something that affects them at all, is like your car mechanic telling you what kind of furniture you’re allowed to have in your house if you want him to work on your car.
He could technically do it, but it’s also fucking absurd and you’d most definitely go to a different mechanic.
SaltSong@startrek.website
on 17 Apr 15:07
collapse
I’m not saying I approve of what he’s doing. Quite the contrary.
But it’s what he’s asking, and how he’s asking, not that he’s asking.
I don’t like the hate speech laws because I think they can be abused to include far too much, however NO LAW SHOULD BE CHANGED IN THE UK IN THE PERSUIT OF TRADE WITH THIS CUNT.
He can fuck right off.
RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Apr 13:23
collapse
The USA needs The UK more right now than the UK needs the USA
Could you explain your perspective in a bit more detail? I can understand why the UK critically needs the US, as a very large and populous economy buying its goods – could you tell me a little more about why the US so critically needs the UK? Is it something to do with access to European markets or something?
RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works
on 17 Apr 16:01
collapse
Right now much of the world is looking to distance themselves from American products. Traditionally the UK has imported a ton of US goods and while the UK has a lot of options on who they can buy these from the USA currently has fewer places they can sell to due to American douchebaggery.
The English are indeed the dumbest of all the humans on the earth, I’m hoping the UK has enough welsh and scottish influences that they can steer the ship away from calamity
Previously bombed into your backyard, but now you have this fifteen year old with a beard and tears in his eyes feet stomping on the floor during his meltdown “I wahaaaanna insult the gaahaaaaaayyyyysss”
threaded - newest
Hmm. If that’s correct, that’s interesting. I wonder if similar criteria might apply to other countries to which he’s talking on trade.
It looks like in the past few years, in the EU, there’s been effort to require member states to prohibit hate speech. I’m not sure if that’s gone through.
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9086657/
In the US, member states may not prohibit hate speech; hate speech is not a legal concept here, and speech that might be classified as hate speech elsewhere is protected under the First Amendment.
EDIT: Though there is a related concept in the US of a “hate crime”. A crime’s sentence — and the crime itself cannot simply be engaging in speech — may be elevated if done when the motivation is hate against some protected groups. That is, the First Amendment would prohibit any form of government ban on saying saying “transexuals are abhorrent”. But it is permissible in the US to pass a law to punish someone who physically assaults a transexual person, not merely for their assault, but also for performing assault with a specific motivation, if that motivation can be shown to be that the victim was transexual.
en.wikipedia.org/…/Hate_crime_laws_in_the_United_…
How much of that effort to prohibit “hate” speech in the EU isn’t just the Germans supporting the Zionist Regime by claiming that criticism of it and their actions is “hate speech” in very much the same way as the Trump Regime claims that criticism of his own regime’s actions is hate and even terrorism, and trying to get it in place EU-wide using the EU institutions as a backdoor?
The EU isn’t exactly immune to the subversion of Humanitarianism and Rule of Law coming from Fascist regimes, especially when one of its leading countries, Germany, is quickly sliding back to it’s old ways, this time around under Zionist (an ethno-Fascist ideology, sames as the Nazis) puppet strings.
I’m definitely pro-EU, which is why I think we need to be very aware of the rotten apples we have in this basket and their attempts at spreading their rot.
What exactly do LGBT issues have to do with trade policy? Why is this on the table? Is there supposed to be some big gay conspiracy to devalue currency or something? It’s all so idiotic.
I’d guess that it’s probably broader than LGBT issues, if they’re taking — and the article is not clear on this, and the source anonymous — issue with hate speech laws in general.
The cruelty is the point.
Umberto Eco’s List of the 14 Common Features of Fascism
It’s an attempt to normalize the fear/hate of LGBTQ+ people on an international level. As long as the administration continues to constantly press this issue, much like the “mere exposure” advertising effect, it doesn’t matter if people believe it nor not, the more times people hear a thing, the more likely they are to adopt that belief or feeling, even to a tiny degree.
That tiny degree, when continually pressed, when continually exposed, over large populations, influences a large number of people.
As long as they have an enemy group they can pin their problems on, they will keep going and keep ramping up the atrocities until we see mass graves. Again. (Seriously, how many times do we have to see mass graves in our nations before we decide that our leadership needs to be thrown down a well.)
If you guys care, please don’t just rant on Lemmy or other internet spaces. Go talk to your family members. Talk to your friends. If you don’t have friends, GO MAKE FRIENDS. GO MAKE ENEMIES. Our anti-social, paranoid, self-absorbed internet shut-in culture is making all of this tragedy possible.
Guys, you HAVE to push through those terrifying feelings of engaging with strangers. You HAVE to get social again. We don’t win this behind keyboards.
did i warp into the onion without realizing?
Since January. Very oniony, but not very funny.
Oniony in the sense that it makes me want to cry.
Look at all that free speech the USA has, where people are being disappeared to an overseas concentration camp for saying genocide is wrong, or having the FBI investigate them for speaking critically about Trump, or imprisoned at the border for criticizing him online. Whereas in the UK, these days you get arrested and thrown in jail if you say you’re English, don’t you?
So he’s going to push this condition onto everyone that they deal with right? Saudi Arabia and Israel for example.
Israel is USA, and SA can do whatever the fuck they want as long as they pay up (i.e. produce oil, buy weapons, whatever).
Putin needs Saudi Arabia to not start an oil price war, which Russia would loose.
The US support of Israel is making the US less popular around the world.
This is the point of Trump dealing with the UK over the EU. They’re more isolated since Brexit and therefore more easily intimidated.
Saudi Arabia and Israel both already have the type of freeze peach this fascist desires.
He’s got work to do on his side considering he’s basically ignoring the 1st Amendment and deporting political critics
IMO, everyone in UK should be protesting and demanding to rejoin EU. Russia successfully was able to make UK withdraw through disinformation, and this only made UK weaker.
Remember Cambridge Analitica, most of whose money came from wealthy Americans?
Maybe they were or maybe they weren’t in cahoots with Russia, but sure as hell it was the very same members of the American “elites” who supported Trump’s rise who also bought Brexit.
Britain’s careless openness to American influence makes it easy for Americans to play it like a fiddle.
Take a look at content of this book (published in 1997): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics#…
It was unthinkable that brexit would happen back then. But a lot of things described happened, because Putin is following this plan.
War in 2022 kind of put things sideways, but now it’s resuming with trump.
Those oligarchs have no loyalty to the countries they live in, they do whatever makes them richer. They are the most bribeable people.
I thought I was used to "WTF moments" when it came to America's sudden descent into madness, but here's one I wasn't prepared for. WTF?
What a useless fucking position for Trump to take. Pick your battles you orange buffoon. Gay folks can’t hurt you, or won’t. Just fix the economy.
He can’t. That trust is never coming back in my lifetime.
Destroying the transatlantic alliance is probably the main goal of putin's US regime.
Embolden the UK's right wing parties who are largely putinists or deliver yet another blow to transatlantic relations. Yet another example of trump delivering a win-win for putin that's a lose-lose for the US.
We must throw our people under the bus, and that will allow us to lick some US boots!
Does anyone trust the UK government not to do this?
I’m expecting Starmer to fold like a cheap suit, especially with the court ruling yesterday.
Could he individually have done anything about that court ruling?
I think what @Naich@lemmings.world means is that the recent UK Supreme Court ruling gives some cover to Starmer, allowing him to pin some of the dissatisfaction with his eventual acquiescence to US pressure on the judiciary (even though Labour, being in control of the legislature, could fix the laws instead of washing their hands…).
Yup.
The very Un-American US President Trump and his administration are trying to Americanise the rest of the world.
Fuck. Right. Off.
To “un-americanise” the rest of the world. Im still salty that some people genuinely think he’s doing anything positive whatsoever.
“Americanize” is not something positive, that’s the point.
That’s fair, I can’t pretend it’s had a positive implication in a long time
The fucking jesus freaks are behind all the anti-diversity.
They can fuck right off! What a sick fucking hate cult they are in.
What the fuck are you doing uk!?
No it fucking doesnt. Not giving a fuck about US demands is the most popular thing you can do right now.
And also the correct thing, from any position of reason.
Trying to control the way other countries are run is fucking wild, the notion of which should never even be remotely entertained.
In happier times, we call the process “diplomacy,” and mostly limit it to things that affect us, directly or indirectly.
But pressuring other countries to, for example, clean up their corruption so we can reliably do business with them is common. (Also hilariously hypocritical) Pressuring other countries to enact civil rights laws is fairly common, too.
I have to admit, seeing pressure to remove civil rights is unusual, at least from countries not named UAE.
Diplomacy is fine, but the US wanting to change something in the UK that is neither a humanitarian issue or something that affects them at all, is like your car mechanic telling you what kind of furniture you’re allowed to have in your house if you want him to work on your car.
He could technically do it, but it’s also fucking absurd and you’d most definitely go to a different mechanic.
I’m not saying I approve of what he’s doing. Quite the contrary.
But it’s what he’s asking, and how he’s asking, not that he’s asking.
So, UK has to become a US colony for trade access?
For the promise of trade access.
It’s simply a power move to test out how submissive the UK government is
I don’t like the hate speech laws because I think they can be abused to include far too much, however NO LAW SHOULD BE CHANGED IN THE UK IN THE PERSUIT OF TRADE WITH THIS CUNT.
He can fuck right off.
The USA needs The UK more right now than the UK needs the USA
Could you explain your perspective in a bit more detail? I can understand why the UK critically needs the US, as a very large and populous economy buying its goods – could you tell me a little more about why the US so critically needs the UK? Is it something to do with access to European markets or something?
Right now much of the world is looking to distance themselves from American products. Traditionally the UK has imported a ton of US goods and while the UK has a lot of options on who they can buy these from the USA currently has fewer places they can sell to due to American douchebaggery.
Yeah they also told the UK they’d get a totally sweet trade deal if they did a Brexit, and that deal never materialized, did it?
Don’t fall for their shit twice. That’s America’s problem - falling for it over and over again.
Where do you think they got it from?
The English are indeed the dumbest of all the humans on the earth, I’m hoping the UK has enough welsh and scottish influences that they can steer the ship away from calamity
He wants to turn the whole world into a fascist dictatorship
Onion headline: Trump accuses China of DEI practices for having too many Chinese workers
Being in Scotland, it hurts to think how close we were to being able to avoid this shit
It hurts so much. I hope the people who voted no are looking at what’s happening and thinking “oops” I was wrong. But that’s not likely.
Aaahhh the good ol American influence.
Previously bombed into your backyard, but now you have this fifteen year old with a beard and tears in his eyes feet stomping on the floor during his meltdown “I wahaaaanna insult the gaahaaaaaayyyyysss”
Or they could tell Trump to go fuck himself.
I like that idea better.
Just once I’d like to hear a foreign country’s avatar say “fuck yourself trump - right in your big shit smelling ass”.
Capitalist nations do not care about their people.
They’re all capitalist nations.