Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world
on 08 Feb 15:14
nextcollapse
Aren’t all Russian T model tanks like that? They store the ammo in the walls of the tank running on a track around the occupants. So when it blows you are not surviving
Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world
on 08 Feb 15:33
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They store it in a carousel on the bottom of the tank just under the turret.
Well, it makes sense for the loading mechanism they use and on paper it leads to a higher rate of fire due to the more accessible rounds.
However, when asking Ukrainian tank crews, who operate both Russian and Western style tanks, what they prefer, the answer is pretty much always western tanks. Better ergonomics is also a thing (Russian/Soviet tanks are notoriously cramped) but I guess the higher survivability even after a full penetration might be what tips the scales.
Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works
on 08 Feb 16:49
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The thing is, you can design an autoloader in a way that protects the crew.
The survability of western tanks isn’t just about where the ammo is stored, but how it’s stored. Western tanks, both with and without autoloaders, place all the ammo at the back, either of the turret or the hill respectively. More importantly, the ammo is stored in a heavily armoured compartment, which has blow-out panels on the outside of the vehicle; the ammo detonates the panels collapse, allowing the force of the explosion to spread out from the tank.
The problem with the T90 design (which is really just an updated T72) is that the autoloader is attached to the bottom of the turret basket. This means there’s no possible way to vent the explosion outside, other than by going through the turret, and through the crew along the way.
Yeah western tanks have their ammo stored in the turret bustle with blast panels and blast doors that save the crew in the case of ammo being hit (if the doors are closed and if the shell that hits ammo did not punctire said doors). They also often use propellant less susceptible to exploding if the ammo gets hit.
The russian tanks on the other side have a way smaller silhouette as well as being cramped to all hell which just compounds this issue.
ChicoSuave@lemmy.world
on 08 Feb 16:41
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Russia…
TwodogsFighting@lemdro.id
on 08 Feb 19:18
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Yes, the reason being that T models have an autoloading mechanism that needs direct access to the ammo. They don’t really care, since their soldiers seem to be cheap (to them) and the explosive failure requires a direct hit on the tank. Basically, Western tanks are designed with the safety of the crew in mind, Russian tanks with the safety of the tank in mind.
TheMightyCanuck@sh.itjust.works
on 08 Feb 18:59
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Is it really “safety of the tank” or is it that they’d rather a faster fire rate at the expense of a possible cook off?
threaded - newest
Aren’t all Russian T model tanks like that? They store the ammo in the walls of the tank running on a track around the occupants. So when it blows you are not surviving
They store it in a carousel on the bottom of the tank just under the turret.
Sounds like something out of WH40K. Lots of firepower with a 0% survival change if hit.
Well, it makes sense for the loading mechanism they use and on paper it leads to a higher rate of fire due to the more accessible rounds.
However, when asking Ukrainian tank crews, who operate both Russian and Western style tanks, what they prefer, the answer is pretty much always western tanks. Better ergonomics is also a thing (Russian/Soviet tanks are notoriously cramped) but I guess the higher survivability even after a full penetration might be what tips the scales.
The thing is, you can design an autoloader in a way that protects the crew.
The survability of western tanks isn’t just about where the ammo is stored, but how it’s stored. Western tanks, both with and without autoloaders, place all the ammo at the back, either of the turret or the hill respectively. More importantly, the ammo is stored in a heavily armoured compartment, which has blow-out panels on the outside of the vehicle; the ammo detonates the panels collapse, allowing the force of the explosion to spread out from the tank.
The problem with the T90 design (which is really just an updated T72) is that the autoloader is attached to the bottom of the turret basket. This means there’s no possible way to vent the explosion outside, other than by going through the turret, and through the crew along the way.
Yes, you can. But they didn’t. Hence, why I said it makes sense in this specific case.
Yeah western tanks have their ammo stored in the turret bustle with blast panels and blast doors that save the crew in the case of ammo being hit (if the doors are closed and if the shell that hits ammo did not punctire said doors). They also often use propellant less susceptible to exploding if the ammo gets hit.
The russian tanks on the other side have a way smaller silhouette as well as being cramped to all hell which just compounds this issue.
Russia…
Other way round really.
Yes, the reason being that T models have an autoloading mechanism that needs direct access to the ammo. They don’t really care, since their soldiers seem to be cheap (to them) and the explosive failure requires a direct hit on the tank. Basically, Western tanks are designed with the safety of the crew in mind, Russian tanks with the safety of the tank in mind.
Is it really “safety of the tank” or is it that they’d rather a faster fire rate at the expense of a possible cook off?
Russia still turret toss world champignon, number one!
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Artillery, rockets, and drones, oh my!