Hamas official says they will repeat Oct. 7 attacks
(news.yahoo.com)
from gedaliyah@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 03 Nov 2023 15:10
https://lemmy.world/post/7738280
from gedaliyah@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 03 Nov 2023 15:10
https://lemmy.world/post/7738280
Quote: “We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do it again and again. The Al-Aqsa Deluge [the name Hamas gave its 7 October onslaught - ed.] is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth. Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”
#world
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Yeesh, this is gonna get a looot uglier.
Each side is making it as ugly as they know how to. I’m so sad that this is 2023. Have been hoping that everyone would come together for a solution on this since Clinton.
It is mind-blowing that people defend these monsters.
Who’s doing that?
Many people are calling Hamas "freedom fighters" and outright defending its actions. I would say a significant portion of Fediverse users fall into this camp, from what I've seen.
We’re simply calling for the stop of oppression and genocide and ethnic cleansing, if that constitute supporting Hamas then you be you.
No, I mean people literally calling Hamas "freedom fighters", and outright cheering them on. There's a difference between "calling for the stop of oppression and genocide and ethnic cleansing" and blatantly supporting the actions of a terror organization.
People cheer for nazis, too. Are you going to make a generic claim that "It's mind-blowing that people defend these monsters" as well? Maybe you should make a comment about people who "defend" mass shooters too! Let's not forget all those "defenders" of eugenics.
Just because you see one or two people making propaganda doesn't mean it's something reasonable people are doing.
Yes. If I ever see a significant number of people defending the Nazis in spaces I speak in I will say exactly that.
Man, when you go outside some time you're going to have your mind absolutely shattered at all the surprising things people do.
It's a meaningless phrase meant to distance yourself from something distasteful. It has no bearing on anything but the person saying it, unless they're using it as a dog-whistle to call out people who are saying something they don't like, as BaldProphet is doing above.
You seem quite disturbed and angered by the fact that I would be disturbed and voice that worry if I saw a bunch of Nazis around.
You have a poor grasp of the situation if that's how you're interpreting it.
In fact that’s exactly what you should do, they need to be called out.
I don't believe it is reasonable, but as I said, I am surprised by how many people are unreasonably supportive of Hamas, despite otherwise priding themselves on being progressive forward-thinkers.
Probably because you're misinterpreting lack of support for Israel as support of Hamas.
You think most people here are like that? Most people seem to be appalled by what Hamas did on October 7th. Most people also seem to be appalled by Israel killing huge numbers of civilians.
Yes, but i rarely see the latter, mostly former.
There’s no need to be defensive. I find both the IDF and Hamas detestable, and I’ve seen support for both here. There isn’t a lot of pro IDF support, but I call it out still. Even a little bit is too much.
Calling out someone lumping anti-oppression/anti-genocide with pro-hamas is defensive? That’s the narrative pro-idf keep pushing.
That’s not what the person you were speaking to was saying. They were talking about people who were actually defending Hamas, not just criticizing Israel. They didn’t lump the two together. The IDF and it’s supporters love pushing that, but there’s no need to automatically assume someone is on their side when they talk about seeing pro Hamas people.
?
Did you replied to the wrong comment or something?
Looks like I did. Sorry for the trouble.
A majority? Well, you’re either lying or you have a severely distorted view of reality.
I have never seen anyone supporting hamas, at most justifying the legitimacy of some of its objectives and the right to fight for them, but not its actions; always being critical of hamas and its war crimes.
In fact, high tolerance or even open support for war crimes is something I have only seen on the zionist side.
There is nothing legitimate about Hamas. It is a terror organization.
dismantling settlements, cleansing the land of the IDF, and regaining their land are all legitimate objectives and should be supported.
That’s not a great argument. Just because your objectives are legitimate doesn’t mean your actions are legitimate.
He's saying that Hamas isn't legitimate because they committed atrocities. I will never accept this until people acknowledge that the occupation government isn't legitimate, and doesn't deserve a dime.
Let me be clear here: if you have to choose the lesser of two evils, then the occupation government will not be your choice, no matter what's on the other side.
I feel like your argument here gets slippery very quickly. You're basically advocating for 'win at all costs' if you're on a specific side and that's real hard to support.
Advocating for a "win at all costs" strategy is something you should accuse people supporting the murder of dozens of people because there's a Hamas leader amongst them (still disputed) of.
I don't want civilians to be harmed and I don't support terrorizing people until they retaliate. those two qualities make me a better person compared to any occupation government supporter (person on the other side). lets say that I support the murder of civilians until Hamas achieves their objectives, that would only bring me down to their level, if not a little higher.
You're redirecting now and trying to walk it back, but those are your words.
Am I? Lets put the quoted words back in their original context:
Let me break that down for you:
BTW everyone can see what you're giving boosts to on Kbin. It's very weird that there are two people on the same platform (kbin), with the same position on this conflict, who have the same weird habit.
I don’t understand this way of thinking. Why does what people believe about the legitimacy of the Israeli government have any effect on your acceptance of atrocities?
It doesn't, atrocities are atrocities, but if people think that Hamas isn't legitimate for their atrocities, then the occupation government is even less legitimate for theirs.
Funni sounds like gaming.
I saw comments explicitly supporting Hamas and their recent actions on Lemmygrad a few weeks ago. Someone was even posting about how they hoped hostages get tortured by Hamas. I haven’t gone back but I assume you can still find those people there. They aren’t really any different than the Zionist extremists who support IDF war crimes, they just use different language to justify the horror.
I completely believe you, but pointing at Lemmygrad for anything like that is kind of a low bar. If there's any possibility that it could go against Western Interests, the community is automatically for it. They don't really care what's actually going on, they just work backwards from being 'Anti-Western' and figure out how to support it later.
You’ve got people doing it in this very thread. Blaming Israel for Hamas murdering people isn’t exactly being critical of their actions.
lemmy.world/comment/5040910
Prime example from above. And it’s net positive on votes.
Edit: Why can’t we simply agree that supporting the IDF is fucked up, supporting Hamas is fucked up, and they’re all awful people?
Over 30 Harvard organizations said Israel is “entirely responsible for all unfolding violence.”
A Columbia professor called it “innovative Palestinian resistance”
A Cornell professor called the attacks “exhilarating” and “energizing"
Mostly true, not supporting Hamas.
It's innovative, and starting the attack when the occupation soldiers have just moved to terrorize the West bank is pretty smart.
Eh, maybe if that was said on the first day of the attack, but it got ugly quickly. They almost sank to the IDF's level.
Blaming the violence of Oct 7 (which Hamas did) on Israel is not defending Hamas? Walk me through that logic.
Please stop gaslighting people and saying that no one is defending Hamas.
Blaming Hamas for the situation the occupation government made, which helped radicalize people and secure funding for Hamas is not defending the disgusting occupation?
You are literally justifying the Oct. 7 massacre of civilians including babies, peace activists, and elderly. So don’t try to tell me that there are not people defending the actions of Hamas.
The situation was created by the Palestinians starting a large war in 2001 and maintaining warfare since,Israel naturally refuses to give up the West Bank so the Palestinians can do shit using the WB as a launchpad.
The situation was created by Europeans deciding that this was their ancestral homeland and colonizing, displacing populations, taking people’s homes. There is no complicated story here, it’s just genocidal colonization.
I usually like to blame the murderer for the murder. There’s certainly contributing reasons for why they killed the person, but they’re still the ones who killed the person.
maybe "blaming Hamas entirely" would have been better, but I was trying to maintain the format of the comment I was replying to.
Gotcha. I think there’s a very careful distinction here between justification and reasoning, and it’s all too easy to get the wording wrong. Israel created reasons for Hamas to do what they did, but that does not mean Hamas is justified in their violence. I blame Hamas entirely for the terrorist attack, but I don’t blame just them for how we got here. The conservative Israeli government is also to blame for this state of affairs, but they’re not responsible for the terrorist attack.
Student groups.
Almost all muslim student groups.
Who immediately got denounced hard by every other Harvard institution.
You'll find a lot of comments along the lines of the Hamas government and Hamas terrorist organization being fundamentally separate entities. You'll also find a lot of people dismissing the claims in articles like this one or trying to paint anyone in Hamas inciting violence as 'not important'.
The idea is to foster a narrative to paint Israel as 'just as bad as hamas' and while Israel has done many bad things, the gap between the two is massive. I think it mostly comes from a desire to paint one side as 'good' and one side as 'evil' which isn't always easy.
That’s a good point, Israel has done a lot more damage to the people of Palestine than Hamas has to Israelites.
no they don't. people just don't like hospitals and refugee camps getting blown up
Not really.
Go back in time. Hamas was originally created in 1987 to fight for Palestinian lives and rights - because Israel government kept oppressing and murdering (men, women and children).
Whenever Palestinians would do anything back, they would get oppressed real quick (probably violently?).
If peaceful revolution is not possible, violent revolution is inevitable.
What do you expect Palestinians and Hamas to do - sit tight and die?
EDIT: Seeing your other comments to people and calling some “tankies”, just shown me that it is if no use to actually discuss/ argue with you.
So I will only leave it with this comment.
To try to justify “violent revolution”, the targets of that violence can’t be innocent bystanders.
Gong up against police or military targets, ok I can see the argument there. Explicitly massacring civilians though is abhorrent. Yes this sentiment can be applied to both sides of the conflict, that should not give either side the green light to wantonly massacre civilians.
I’m not justifying it, I even condemn what happened on October 7th. But I’m not surprised.
1948 up to 2023 being oppressed, driven out of land, homes and being murdered (men, women and children) on a daily basis.
That drives people nuts, at one time -It will just break people and people will do something. That happened.
If Israel didn’t continue to do all these horrendous deeds, this might not even have happened. Hamas was literally created in 1987 to fight for Palestinians lives and rights - because Israel kept doing, what they’re doing.
It is just really sad to see the way it all goes.
I just wish both sides would ceasefire.
EDIT: correcting spelling. Typing in the night without glasses, isn’t a good idea. I suppose.
Israel was suspicious towards the Palestinians because it was trying to prevent October 7th from occurring before October 7th were Wars against it started in conjunction with Arab coalitions, terrorist attacks, mass rioting and attempts to destroy Israel without the Arab armies.
Everything in this conflict started with pure intentions before becoming corrupted. Zionism started when a prominent Jewish writer, following pogroms of Jews in Russia, opined that Jewish people would not have peace or respect unless they had their own country. And then radical nationalists perverted it.
I don’t think Zionist terrorists should get a pass though because they originally wanted a place to live free of persecution – by your logic, they had to do that, because peaceful revolution was not possible for them.
Hamas needs to go. They have stockpiles of food and water they aren’t sharing with the civilians there, and they’re taking aid that’s meant for Palestinians. Hamas is not their freedom fighter. They’re using the Palestinians to wage war against Jews.
You pretty much took one part out of context and placed into your own way.
Hamas was created because Israel kept pushing Palestinian out of their own homeland. 4 Palestinian people died in 1987 by an Israeli driver, due to that Palestinian people started to uprising because Israel occupation.
“Hamas need to go”? How about let Israel stop with their genocide, stealing land, homes and the purpose murdering of men, women and children?
Realize if Israel didn’t steal everything from Palestinian people this entire thing wouldn’t have happened. Hamas wouldn’t have been created, Palestinian people would’ve been living in peace.
Curious question to you; what would you do if Israel stole your land, homes and murdered your entire family and friends - with the world’s presidents just staring?
Don’t get me wrong both sides are wrong, both kill innocent people. I condemn both. But it started when Israel stole land, that’s the start of the tragedy.
I’m not disputing any of that. I agree that Israel is who created this conflict and their actions are why extremists have gained a foothold.
To answer your question, I’d certainly want vengeance, but I don’t think I’d kill innocent civilians or support violence against them. The majority of Palestinians are the same I think. I couldn’t condone inflicting the same situation onto someone else unless they were directly responsible for the oppression. That’s my best guess. I haven’t had any experiences remotely close to it, but from what I can extrapolate, I think that would be the case.
I don’t see why I can’t say Israel needs to stop with the genocide and colonization and also say that Hamas needs to go. Everyone hurting and killing innocent people need to go away if there’s going to be peace.
What I was saying earlier is that while the original reason for something can be pure and good, it doesn’t justify extremist violence. Wanting a Jewish state so your people stop experiencing persecution is fair – genociding Palestinians and taking their land is absolutely indefensible. Similarly, wanting independence and safety and security, and your land back from Israel, is fair – killing innocent people and talking about killing all Jews is absolutely indefensible.
We’re pretty much in agreement here, we’re just talking past each other.
You are outright lying. In the first few paragraphs of Hamas' founding document, it clearly calls for the "obliteration" of the state of Israel. It's about genocide against Israel, not "Palestinian lives and rights".
People tend to forget that one of the key justifications for Hamas splitting off as a distinct organization was that they felt their former parent organization was not supportive enough of open violence against Israel. Also important to note, the initial charter classifies diplomatic solutions as a waste of time and war as the only possible answer.
Per your genocide comment, I'm guessing you're talking about the hadith advocating that Judgement Day will not come until they have killed all Jewish people everywhere. It's very rough, but do want to note that there is a much later statement indicating the possibility of living in peace with other faiths as long as they are never ever challenged. But... this is also sandwiched between a call for everyone to join them in jihad and a callout to a document with questionable provenance detailing a plot for the jewish people to take over the world.
Anyone can read the whole charter online, obviously translation bias is a thing, but the translations I've seen out there are very harsh. There are items in there about 'Palestinian Lives and Rights', they've got notes codifying the status of women as lesser and taking jabs at anyone advocating for women as doing it just to make them look bad. There are a few random items in there that do look harmless at first glance, I'd encourage everyone to at least take a look through it, it's not very long.
“Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I’m willing to make.”
Meanwhile this guy lives it up in Qatar
the tunnels are only for Hamas btw
Sadly dude doesn’t really know what he is and should be fighting anymore, and young people die for him 🤦
So uh… How about Israel stops bombing the civilians and bomb this guy instead? I’m sure if ask nicely the US will borrow them one of those knife missiles…
They're not in Gaza, they're in US ally Qatar.
Should only make it easier to target this individual, right?
With all those civilians around, I don’t think the US could even do a strike without civilian casualties. Especially when these hamas cowards hide in and under the population.
with what army?
Plenty of new recruits from all the people who lost family in the bombings.
And THIS is the reason why the Hamas military and political structures have to get destroyed.
Where are all the people that are screaming that Israel should make peace right now? Make peace with WHOM?
As we speak israel just bombed an ambulance convoy full of injured people. And then, not long later, the indonesian hospital in gaza was damaged even more by the israelis.
Where are the people screaming that Palestinians should make peace right now? Make peace with WHOM?
There's no peace for the region so long as the Palestinian identity continues to exist. Everyone knows it, none less than the Israelis.
Even if Israel were truly of mind to "make peace", far too many Palestinians remember the deals reneged on from the previous generation between Israel and the PLO. The origin story of how al-Mujama transitioned into the militant Hamas. When the best possible treatment Palestinians could get from Israel was wage slavery, settlement, total dependence on foreign aid, and not even having the right to travel freely. Second-class residents, not even citizens, in their own homelands. And the idea that anyone would have more faith in Benny than Peres or Shamir is sort of laughable.
The outcome of this may as well be carved in stone. Israel will do to Palestine as was done to so many other victims of colonialism. Corner and oppress the people who were of the land until none of their childrens' children can remember a time when it was their land. Turn any injustices into notes from history, to be discussed and studied but never repaired.
But hey, the planet is dying either way I guess.
fuck off genocide apologist
That's not what the word "apologist" means.
To apologize for something is to defend it. It's indefensible. Israel is going to wipe these people out, systematically, just as they've been doing since before nearly any of us were alive. There's only one thing Israel could do to lead to lasting peace in the region and that is give back the land. Anyone who thinks that is going to happen is delusional.
Anything less than returning people to their homelands is just going to lead to continuing violent resistance.
They’re being cynical not an apologist.
I guess, but arguing that they only have the (false) dichotomy of committing genocide or disappearing is pretty close to it.
They either make peace and end up like the West bank or defend themselves and end up like Gaza. They should never make peace.
Maybe instead of attacking civilians they should target.. checks notes Hamas?
I havent heard a single person say that fighting Hamas is a bad thing. Not everyone in Palestine supports or is a member of Hamas, but the more you indiscriminately kill and maim, their numbers are likely to swell.
"Hamas" is just an anti-Palestinian slur at this point
Maybe Hamas should... checks notes not hide out in refugee camps and use refugees as human shields?
Ah, it's perfectly fine to bomb hospitals and refugee camps because one or two Hamas terrorists are in them, then. Cause massive innocent casualties is an acceptable loss when you have the chance at killing a terrorist leader.
In before "BuT thE Us DoES it AlL tHe tiME"
I don't think they did it because they had the chance to kill Hamas militants. They actually did kill Hamas militants, who in cowardly and illegal fashion used refugees as human shields.
As opposed to the completely legal and justifiable killing of innocent civilians for the chance at killing purported Hamas fighters.
Yes. War is horrific, which is why international laws of war exist. Hamas commits war crimes as its standard procedure, while Israel is forced into impossible situations to defend itself legally. The reason conducting military operations out of civilian places like schools and hospitals is a war crime is because doing so turns those locations into legitimate military targets.
If you don't want your refugee camp to be a military target, don't conduct military operations from the middle of it. Clearly, Hamas got the result it wanted: Dead refugees that it could spin as martyrs to fuel anti-Israel support in the international community.
You've bought the terrorists' propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
If you think its okay to indiscriminately bomb civilians because there might be some enemies hiding amongst them, then we have nothing to talk about. That's a fucked up way of thinking.
What in the name of manufactured outrage! This guys interview was from 10 days ago and these lunatics keep trotting it out every time they need to distract from whatever inexcusable act of terrorism they committed in the past 6 hours. Whats even the point? It just makes this manufactured outrage machine that much more obvious.
Here @dumdum666, why don't you explain to me the legitimacy of Israel murdering 42 members of the same family the other day, including 4 doctors and bunch of children. That's only from 3 days ago, so it's 3x more relevant than the shit popsicle y'all are trying to sell everyone as chocolate.
Your arguments are garbage and your rhetoric is that of a shameful tool that would see murders set loose upon the world if it's for "your side." You reek of hypocrisy.
The MASTER peddler of manufactured outrage, accuses legitimate news outlets like Times of Israel to manufacture outrage? so this News Outlet is only good enough for you, when it reports about Palestinians being mistreated by Israelis in the Westbank, but not when it reports about an official Interview a Hamas official gave, that is detrimental for your INSANE narrative?
From the article:
No one was able to confirm this yet.
I don’t seek your approval or that of your Hamas Terrorist friends. Whatever I write is for the other people that have to read your stupid shit.
The story is 10 days old and I still haven't gotten a good pet name from you. Thanks for taking all that time to say absolutely nothing here. Also, if you're making me the master does that mean you wanna be my little boy slave? Can we work this into the nickname?
Domination isn't about sex my little house elf. It's about pleasure. Your naked ignorance on full display as always.
I thought that thumbnail pic looked familiar. Thank you for the context! This is very important!
That’s one seriously suspect “therefore”.
I’ve seen the same opinion shared a disgusting amount of times on lemmy. Doing the pr wash for free.
Memri is a literal Israeli intelligence disinformation outlet. Everything from Memri should be considered non-credible …wikipedia.org/…/Middle_East_Media_Research_Insti…
MEMRI may have an agenda, but they literally just translate public statements from Arabic to English. If you think there’s an inaccuracy in the translation, please let me know.
Edit: Someone here is implying that Hamas official Ghazi Hamad didn’t say what he said, so let me also share these additional links:
Link to the original unedited broadcast
Link to the source article (Dated Yesterday)
Link to the Reporter’s bio
Link to an English Interview with Ghazi Hamad on NBC in which he defended his words and reiterated, “What do you want us to do? To stop? No, I am talking about we want to continue (fighting) against the occupation.”
Go to the Wikipedia, click on Reception, load the archived sources 40 thru 45 and then ask yourself how credible MEMRI is.
How Memri translates is here in the debate on source 45:
In your Special Dispatch 151, for instance, you translated an interview given by the mufti of Jerusalem to al-Ahram al-Arabi, shortly after the start of the Palestinian uprising.
One question the interviewer asked was: “How do you deal with the Jews who are besieging al-Aqsa and are scattered around it?” Memri translated this as: “How do you feel about the Jews?” - which is a different question. That left you with a reply in Arabic which didn’t fit your newly-concocted question. So you cut out the first part of the mufti’s reply and combined what was left with part of his answer to another question.
Wow, thanks for the lesson!
FYI, that may be an example a Wikipedia editor found, but it is unrelated to this event. Some people will do anything to hide who Hamas is, up to and including denying their documented words and actions. I also shared these additional links:
Link to the original unedited broadcast
Link to the source article (Dated Yesterday)
Link to the Reporter’s bio
Link to an English Interview with Ghazi Hamad on NBC in which he defended his words and reiterated, “What do you want us to do? To stop? No, I am talking about we want to continue (fighting) against the occupation.”
Please have a look for yourself
For sure. I love Wikipedia and hate genocide ♥
Wikipedia isn’t without bias, either.
Very true, thats why its great to check out primary sources. Note this yahoo article never out right says the translation is from MEMRI. The author listed by yahoo is actually a different newspaper Ukrainska Pravda. They attribute quotes to The Times of Israel, which does actually disclose the source of translation as MEMRI. The author on pravda.UA is listed as editor Iryna Balachukwho very clearly spun the original article. The times of Israel actually shows the headline itself is paraphrasing a tweet by MEMRI. The whole chain of plagiarism is to legitimize propaganda by getting it over to yahoo while hiding the source of the quotes knowing most people wont dig so deeply into it.
If you do happen to dig a little for sources and havent heard of the “Middle East Media Research Institute”, the name itself doesnt betray any bias. It is a psy-op and it has been since its inception, which is very easily gleaned by reading the sources in Wikipedia if you havent yet seen their works over the years showcasing the absolute craziest moments in Arab TV.
No but their bias is at least sourced hehe
Is it?
Yes
Using sources to justify bias isn’t the same thing as referencing the source of your bias.
As it’s referenced you can look at references for bias.
It’s pretty wild here now, that’s for sure. I think it wasn’t that bad even on reddit
If you claim that protesting an ongoing genocide is “anti-semitic”, you’re the actual antisemite. Stop throwing shit on Jewish people.
twitter.com/no_itsmyturn/…/1710532310427168870
Ahh, so that’s what the derogatory term Israeli used on Palestinian. I wonder how many term they invented over the year to call Palestinian.
Gotta have a hobby I guess.