Unprecedented GPS jamming attack affects 1600 aircraft over Europe (www.newscientist.com)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 11:28
https://lemmy.world/post/13788070

A 63-hour-long marathon of GPS jamming attacks disrupted global satellite navigation systems for hundreds of aircraft flying through the Baltic region – and Russia is thought to be responsible

Russia is suspected of launching a record-breaking 63-hour-long attack on GPS signals in the Baltic region. The incident, which affected hundreds of passenger jets earlier this month, occurred amid rising tensions between Russia and the NATO military alliance more than two years since the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

“We have seen an increase in GPS jamming since the start of Russia’s war against Ukraine, and allies have publicly warned that Russia has been behind GPS jamming affecting aviation and shipping,” a NATO official told New Scientist. “Russia has a track record of jamming GPS signals and has a range of capabilities for electronic warfare.”

#world

threaded - newest

foggy@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 11:49 next collapse

Is this where the beginning g of the end of free open GPS starts?

Been wondering when we’d have to start paying for the privilege to use an encrypted private GPS service.

Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 11:52 next collapse

It wouldn’t matter against jamming though. You just need a jammer that screams louder

ramble81@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 11:57 next collapse

Yup. As long as you’re transmitting via radio waves, if something on that frequency “screams” louder, you won’t get the original signal. That’s why the FCC has strict rules against radio interference. About the only way you could get past that would be some sort of laser guided/optical communications, but would be damn near impossible given the number of planes and weather conditions.

Luckily the louder something screams the more easy it is to pinpoint.

Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com on 01 Apr 2024 12:20 next collapse

“Our system is unjammable! Just make sure this laser receiver has clear line of sight with three satellites way up in geosynchronous orbit at all times.”

“You’re fucking with me, right?”

AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 14:10 collapse

No . That’s how it would work. That’s why we don’t use it, because of things like weather, birds, space debris, and other planes. its more secure but technically very difficult.

Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com on 01 Apr 2024 14:13 collapse

thatsthejoke.jpeg

Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 12:25 collapse

I mean, doesn’t matter. We pinpoint russia and then what. Sure, we can retaliate and block their comma, and radio communication doesn’t work for both of us. We can always invade, but a load of political capital is needed, and the west doesn’t exactly have the most ammo ever right now.

Finally, I think the true source is this

<img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/353666d5-2635-4a18-9449-f6d524f98484.webp">

suzune@ani.social on 01 Apr 2024 20:00 collapse

It’s nice that they “scream” there. It’s the way you know that they are hiding their ammo and weapons routes there. Instead of complaining, we should target these routes. Hey… they are outside russian borders… so…

bstix@feddit.dk on 01 Apr 2024 12:47 next collapse

It would matter if they chose not to jam certain frequencies due to some agreement.

Thinking only of GPS-like services, there are multiple suppliers who could take advantage of Russia jamming other services. GPS is only one, owned by the American air force. Other suppliers might be more open to making agreements with Russia. Money can make things happen.

I’m not saying it’s like that, only that it is possible for bad actors to benefit from playing on both sides in a jamming war, just like any other kind of war.

cooljacob204@kbin.social on 01 Apr 2024 15:13 collapse

In a war like this they jam everything and anything they can. No commercial solutions would be loopholed out of it.

bstix@feddit.dk on 01 Apr 2024 19:34 collapse

… unless money.

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 15:44 collapse

Unless they are on a different wavelength from GPS, which is what Xona is doing.

Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 16:50 collapse

Ok, then they just block that one

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 18:27 collapse

Do you think country-wide jamming of a high-power radio signal is easy? The magnitude of difference between jamming a building and jamming at airline altitudes or at long distances is massive. You don’t just go out and buy a jammer that blocks GPS for a country.

Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 18:35 collapse

I don’t think that for an individual it is easy. But for a country as large as Russia (even with a somewhat pathetic economy)

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 19:51 collapse

I work developing the next generation GPS satellites, and half of my job is dealing with defeating jamming. Without giving specifics that can only be shared in a SCIF, jammers are for small regional use, not for large scale usage. RF power drops off at 1/r^2, so doubling the distance requires 4 times the power. A normal person can buy a jammer that handles a few hundred feet around their house or car. It is 100x harder to cover a city block of buildings and is mostly restricted to governments (my math could be off on that, since RF isn’t my specialty). Going from jamming a city block of government buildings to jamming flight traffic in a small neighborhood is roughly 100 times as much as that power. Going from that small neighborhood to blocking a very small country is 100 times as much as that power (or 10,000 as much as the power of a big jammer). Doing the same thing but with multiple RF signals is even harder.

I can’t talk about Russia’s specific capabilities, but even for Russia it wouldn’t be easy outside a small region.

GBU_28@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 13:00 next collapse

That’s not how jamming works

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 14:39 collapse

Explain how jamming works. The person isn’t saying encryption overcomes jamming, just that encryption will be used to make the new system private and paid instead of free to use. Not being GPS will make it avoid GPS jamming.

GBU_28@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 14:59 collapse

It doesn’t matter if you encrypt it, it still has to make information out of communication with satellites. Jamming saturates the band range that something is attempting to communicate across. So no sensible information is available because it’s all noise

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 16:12 collapse

Did you not read what I said? I said “the person isn’t saying that encryption overcomes jamming, just that encryption will be used to make the new system private and paid.” At no point did I say or imply that encryption helps overcome jamming. I did say that since they don’t transmit on the same frequency as GPS then jamming GPS won’t affect it (depending on how close their L-band range is to the GPS L-band range).

I design GPS satellites for a living. I understand how jamming works.

GBU_28@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 16:21 collapse

You asked how jamming works, I simply discussed that.

Even if the new system is encrypted and on another spectrum, that doesn’t make it invincible from jamming, the jammer just needs to be adjusted to target it.

All I’m saying is encryption and subscription does not defend from jamming.

Tactics like signal hopping and multi signal parallel processing / handshake help with jamming (plus highly focused and shield directional antennas)

postmateDumbass@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 13:54 next collapse

That will not fix this, unless your private service flies their own satellites with more transmitter power

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 15:43 collapse

Xona is out there planning their own satellite constellation in their own band of the spectrum (so not jammed at the same time as GPS), and is fully encrypted.

BakerBagel@midwest.social on 01 Apr 2024 17:29 collapse

Russia could just as easily jam two signals at once.

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 18:20 collapse

Not just as easily. Broad-spectrum jamming is more difficult, so they either develop one of those with enough power to jam both signals (not as easy) or the build twice as many jammers (not as easy).

brianorca@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 22:24 collapse

Not as easy for individuals. Still relatively easy for a state actor. It’s not a magnitude difference, just a difference in degree.

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 15:44 next collapse

You are talking about Xona. Private company, fully encrypted signal, paid service, not jammed at the same frequency as GPS.

EDIT: I would love for one of the people who down-voted me to explain what was wrong with my completely factual description of a company who is doing exactly what this person asked about.

brianorca@lemmy.world on 05 Apr 2024 16:11 collapse

If enough people are using this new system, Russia could easily pivot to target it as well. Jamming is not inherently hard, especially if a nation is attempting it.

Jamming in the US will bring the FCC down your throat. The stronger the signal, the faster they will show up. Russia transmitting a jamming signal from Russia doesn’t have to worry about such things. A jamming device is not hard to find, but on sovereign soil it’s still untouchable short of war.

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 05 Apr 2024 16:43 collapse

Not the point of the post I replied to or my post. I develop GPS satellites for the Space Force. I understand jamming quite well and know what capabilities Russia has.

The person didn’t say that this hypothetical private system couldn’t be jammed. They said that if GPS is jammed then it opens up a niche for a private company to sell their own service. I said that exact thing is happening. That isn’t to say that service couldn’t also get jammed, but Russia is mainly jamming GPS because it affects military missions. Since the military wouldn’t be using this private company, then Russia is unlikely to jam their signal.

BakerBagel@midwest.social on 12 Apr 2024 17:35 collapse

How does Russia jamming GPS open a market for a private GPS service? Russia can just jam the private network alongside the government operated one. So now people in the Baltics are gettinf blacked out of a service they are oaying a subscription to instead of one they are poggybacking off of for free.

At best they are talking about something completely unrelated to the news article.

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 12 Apr 2024 17:42 collapse

I’m someone who works developing new GPS satellites and has to understand jamming. Even for Russia it isn’t easy to jam GPS in a very large area. It’s not impossible but also not as easy as just putting some jammers out there. In small areas it isn’t so bad for a nation. In buildings, even corporations can do it. Jamming at large scales gets very hard very fast.

So doing it for two different PNT services, one of which isn’t being used by any military, wouldn’t be something Russia would do.

halva@discuss.tchncs.de on 03 Apr 2024 00:37 collapse

that’s… not how gps works, y’know?

the satellites only send out signal, they don’t care about the ground

PugJesus@kbin.social on 01 Apr 2024 11:59 next collapse

Article 5

irreticent@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 22:11 collapse

No.

HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 12:03 next collapse

death to poopin

irreticent@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 22:08 collapse

I love this picture of Obama talking down to Putin <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/868d3ba0-0fe0-4eb6-a912-c53bbff3cf68.jpeg">

Chee_Koala@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 22:49 collapse

Lol, can’t even see where poot poots heels end, there could be 3-4 cm of extra lift hidden under those pantaloons!

Wiz@midwest.social on 02 Apr 2024 11:17 collapse

Ah, the good old Desantis boot trick!

roguetrick@kbin.social on 01 Apr 2024 12:09 next collapse

If anyone died that would've been article 5. Are they nuts?

Empricorn@feddit.nl on 01 Apr 2024 12:54 next collapse

Yes, but only if it can be proven it was absolutely Russia. And then it has to be proven that it was approved by their government as an official act, not just some vodka-soaked hackers somewhere in Siberia…

madcaesar@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 12:58 collapse

Russia already shot down a passenger jet and nothing happened.

roguetrick@kbin.social on 01 Apr 2024 13:02 collapse

That's quite different than attacking directly over the airspace of NATO members.

cooljacob204@kbin.social on 01 Apr 2024 15:10 collapse

Also arguably an accident.

mindlight@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 12:19 next collapse

“…and Russia is thought to be responsible.”

Nooooooo… Russia? Really? They would neeeveeeer?

avater@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 12:44 next collapse

Russia is really stretching this out, aren’t they. Maybe they need some proper ass kicking to fall back in line.

At some point the west has to react.

bstix@feddit.dk on 01 Apr 2024 12:49 next collapse

Never mind Russia, I’d be happy with anyone making a “special military operation” on Putin’s whereabouts. NATO doesn’t have to fight Russia. They only need the head of the snake.

avater@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 12:51 next collapse

don’t think that this will work. Russia is rotten to the core and there is always another head.

we are fighting a hydra not a snake.

bstix@feddit.dk on 01 Apr 2024 13:38 next collapse

Anyway, we should start at the top and work downwards. It’s a waste of ammo to kill all the involuntary cannon fodder. If the top goes, Russia would have to reconstruct, however that might turn out.

TheBat@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 17:05 next collapse

Russia would have to reconstruct, however that might turn out.

Balkanization boogaloo?

bstix@feddit.dk on 01 Apr 2024 21:16 next collapse

Yes, I’d take that over the status quo.

00x0xx@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 21:52 collapse

Likely not. Everyone who wanted to leave Russia did so in the 1990’s

HaywardT@lemmy.sdf.org on 01 Apr 2024 17:15 next collapse

Middle out

nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de on 01 Apr 2024 17:50 collapse

Like tip to tip? No thanks.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:41 collapse

A state can’t fight like that though. Needs to be a non state actor.

fuckingkangaroos@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 18:04 next collapse

It’s not just Putin, and it’s not all of Russia. The Kremlin+oligarchs are the problem.

Plopp@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 18:49 next collapse

While this is true, I think it’s more likely than not that a successor doesn’t share the same amount of Soviet fetishism. Putin is kinda out there and doing things that aren’t great for Russian business. You only have to be slightly less mad than Putin to realize that.

CosmicCleric@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 19:10 collapse

Humanity really needs to figure out how to handle corrupt people in power.

Duamerthrax@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 20:12 next collapse

We have. It’s just against the ToS on most forums.

FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today on 01 Apr 2024 22:27 collapse

Is it that thing that Korea did after the fall of the Dai Nippon Empire? How is that going for them?

Or maybe we could use some Middle East examples, like Iran or Afghanistan? Are those good examples of handling corrupt people in power? South America might have a few examples…?

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:43 collapse

Yep, can’t ever improve anything, world has to suck this much in these ways.

FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today on 02 Apr 2024 18:12 collapse

I feel like it sucks a lot less than it used to in most modernized countries, especially European Nations and Canada. Even the USA didn’t use to have Medicaid or overtime pay (Fair Labor Standards Act was in 1938), etc. It’s just that these improvements weren’t caused by things that talking about would put you on a watchlist, they were caused by slow progressive reform and political activism.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 03 Apr 2024 07:23 collapse

No, they were caused by workers fighting the US army with guns in the 20s, and all the industrialized nations of the world failing to stop a bunch of dipshit peasants in the ass backwards frozen nowhere from walking into the palace and painting the walls red, then dispossession g the entire propertied class, and giving a substantial chunk of them the wall.

Why would they give you shit when you beg, if they aren’t afraid? Common humanity or some shit? Have you ever read a history book or news story in your life?

FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today on 03 Apr 2024 22:23 collapse

Followed immediately by the global Great Depression in the 1930s and both World Wars? I’m not saying correlation equals causation but it sounds like those 1920s dudes accomplished jack shit. Plus, deposing of the ruling class of Russia led to the USSR which… Did not end well…

sturmblast@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 22:06 next collapse

Oh we know how, it’s just not pretty.

CosmicCleric@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 18:02 collapse

Oh we know how, it’s just not pretty.

Lol, okay, that’s my fault. When I wrote that I was thinking in a non-violent sort of way, legislatively/investigatively. A system of governance that would prevent somebody from warping the system and becoming all powerful and above the system.

The problem with what your advocating is it doesn’t solve the problem, it just punts the ball down the field, and then sooner or later the same scenario problem comes back again.

sturmblast@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 23:29 next collapse

Well, you could say that with nearly any solution besides peace… which is hard to maintain too. So, pick your poison.

CosmicCleric@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 02:17 collapse

So, pick your poison.

a non-violent sort of way, legislatively/investigatively. A system of governance that would prevent somebody from warping the system and becoming all powerful and above the system.

assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 02:15 collapse

I blame the French Revolution for giving these romantic notions. On the surface, it looks like people overthrowing the rich. But when you read into what followed, it was a violent power struggle where yesterday’s new leader was next up at the guillotine tomorrow.

And what came of it in the end? Napoleon, another powerful centralized ruler.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:42 collapse

We did, we must get murdered by shitty people in power when we say it too loud.

Short version: don’t have these huge power differentials.

Duamerthrax@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 18:30 next collapse

Except Putin’s behavior isn’t sane even by oligarch standards. Another corrupt leader would just take Putin’s place, but they might not be inclined to continue with Ukraine. They could just blame it all on Putin and quietly retreat the military. It’s not the best outcome, but at least Ukraine would be safe.

Natanael@slrpnk.net on 01 Apr 2024 19:38 collapse

But doing it suddenly will create a power vacuum, which usually gets filled by the most ruthless people

go_go_gadget@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 20:57 collapse

Doesn’t Russia have lines of succession?

Natanael@slrpnk.net on 01 Apr 2024 21:07 next collapse

In theory

bradorsomething@ttrpg.network on 02 Apr 2024 20:39 collapse

“Oops! All Putin!”

brianorca@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 22:26 collapse

In what world would Putin allow anything other that a yes-man be his official backup?

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:40 collapse

But not the same shitty, abd since they’re not Putin, they can disown this whole shit show and shut it down without looking weak.

metaldream@sopuli.xyz on 01 Apr 2024 20:29 next collapse

So let the other heads see what happens when you fuck around too much.

bluewing@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 23:36 next collapse

Like many things political, you start doing outside political killings from another country, pretty soon you can find yourself dead as a political leader. It’s playground tit-for-tat rules.

Plus, unless you are prepared for a “You break it, you buy it” situation, can and always will get something worse. See: the Middle East at this moment in time.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:39 next collapse

So the actual people need to be the ones to do this.

It really would be better for future stability if the people of Moscow did it anyway.

kent_eh@lemmy.ca on 02 Apr 2024 16:56 collapse

See: the Middle East at this moment in time.

Or pretty much any point in time in the last several decades.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:38 collapse

That’s why none of them will do it.

cmbabul@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 02:05 collapse

There is no way to convince me that the CIA, MI6, and/or Beijing couldn’t take him out if they wanted him gone, which makes me wonder why they wouldn’t, I guess World War III but it’s not like that’s not already a possibility

Chewget@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 03:37 next collapse

The CIA attempted to assassinate castro between 8 and 634 times

cmbabul@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 03:47 next collapse

Different world between then and now, any claim of an attempt after the fall of the USSR is as sus as an Alabama national championship prior to 2000. Also I meant as mostly coordinated effort

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:37 collapse

Yes but he was a communist, not an oligarch, and by most accounts a pretty okay dude. So killing him was okay.

boredtortoise@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 04:15 next collapse

Yea they even got OBL murdered when they wanted. It seems that they just don’t want Putin gone for now, profits or “escalation” as a reason.

MataVatnik@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 10:12 next collapse

Because then Russia will try to assasinate US leaders

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:35 collapse

And that would be… Bad?

Presumably for like reasons or something?

MataVatnik@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 02:11 collapse

Aside from the instability and resource pit this would cause, if you were making these decisions and you were to be the target of the retaliatory assasinations you can see why it would not be in your best interest to go down that path.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 03 Apr 2024 07:01 collapse

Yeah I see why they wouldn’t do it, but I don’t hate the idea. I could see a politicians name in the news, and feel some glimmer of hope.

I’m mostly pointing out (maybe elsewhere in this convo) that millions are dying to make some octogenarian kleptocrat shit heads whose raison fucking d’etre is grinding the young into a bloody paste by the millions to no tangible benefit.

MataVatnik@lemmy.world on 04 Apr 2024 17:12 collapse

Yeah I feel you

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:34 next collapse

Nah. These are all state actors. They don’t want to break the taboo on assassinating world leaders when they do atrocities, because they may want to do atrocities later.

So millions of poor fuckers die in the mud.

ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 11:14 collapse

There isn’t a replacement in place for Putin that would be any different. Everyone that thinks and acts different is kept away from power in Russia. Pushed out of windows, deaths in prison or the aircraft falls out of the sky. There is a possibility that he is replaced by someone worse.

It’s much better if he is removed from power by Russians. The next leader has to be different and havs the support of the people. Intelligence services taking him out won’t achieve this. Your likely to get an extremists that tries to escalate the war in Ukraine.

cmbabul@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 13:01 collapse

That remains true as long as he doesn’t start a nuclear exchange. If he starts really leaning in that direction I would expect a change in calculus

scarabic@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 18:42 next collapse

There are smart people in Russia who need better things to do. This bullshit is out of control.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:32 collapse

There needs to not be a ‘Russia’ after this. Split it up. Try to keep the regions peaceful and shit, but absolutely divide them politically, so one cannot say ‘Russia’ is a meaningful entity.

Land_Strider@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 10:55 next collapse

Yeah, we know how it went with Africa. Sure. You’d like to do that from the comfort of your home, right?

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 11:03 collapse

Africa was carved up with the intent to be exploitable, with minority regimes that needed colonial support in power and intentional ethnic and resource conflicts aplenty.

Don’t be a dick about it, carve it up based on extant cultural regions with balancedish resources, and it could work. At least closer to ‘works’ than having a ‘Russia’ is right now.

cosmicrookie@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 11:00 next collapse

Russia will be paying back for these years, for decades to come.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 11:05 collapse

Or just carve up Russia so no part us big enough to pull this shit again, and people there are less under the thumb of a handful of shit heads in Moscow/st Petersburg.

cosmicrookie@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 11:13 collapse

I don’t know really… carving up Africa, did not really work too well. Although it does make sense to divide it into smaller independent regions, I don’t see this happening to other mega countries like China, USA, India etc.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 11:29 collapse

It basically has in the united states. I will be killed if I go to the CSA, but I’m only gonna get social murdered here on the west coast. I’d be pretty okay splitting off.Lotta people here would. Biggest problem is water, abd that’s going to shit anyway.

Texas_Hangover@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 13:43 collapse

I’ve read some of your posts, and you seem a hell of a lot more murderous and psychotic than anyone I’ve ever met in the south.

crazyCat@sh.itjust.works on 02 Apr 2024 11:22 next collapse

Oh that sounds easy and like it surely would backfire spectacularly /s that’s how you get a nuclear war or similar.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 11:35 collapse

You can’t convince me Russia’s nuclear arsenal works for shit, much less the missiles.

And even if one or two get through; still a net gain on human life over another year or ten of meat grinder warfare.

And if you put a bounty on Russian warheads…

Alexstarfire@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 21:45 collapse

Bring back Novgorod.

jaybone@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 13:27 next collapse

How much more will we allow these assholes to get away with? When does it stop?

APassenger@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 13:33 next collapse

When the West decides it’s willing to risk flash dessication.

NineMileTower@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 13:43 next collapse

I’m not sure what flash dessication is, but I’m willing to bet Putin would bring the world down with him if cornered.

APassenger@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 15:03 collapse

Nuclear blast, where I focused on the heat and excluded the long, painful radiation deaths that would also occur.

Edit: radio - > radiation

capital@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 20:03 next collapse

As shitty as Putin is, I don’t think he has a death wish.

I think we’ve made it clear we know where he is at all times. First reply we send is on his head.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 21:37 next collapse

As shitty as Putin is, I don’t think he has a death wish.

How certain are you?

capital@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 22:11 collapse

Remember his affinity for comically long tables for meeting people during the pandemic?

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 22:12 collapse

Doesn’t mean he doesn’t think he’ll be fine inside his bunker.

Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 03:02 collapse

What if putin was going to die soon from something?

mr_robot2938@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 21:58 next collapse

dessication

desiccation

laverabe@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 17:00 collapse

It is highly likely that exactly zero Russias nukes work. Nuclear maintenance is extremely expensive, and there is a zero percent chance that corruption that we witnessed in tank maintenance and other areas of their military did not spread to their nuclear program. It has also been 34 years since they successful a launched a nuke.

Russia as a country has never launched a nuke (USSR did) so it’s seriously debatable if they even have the capability.

And I’m not advocating for war, but Russia needs to have consequences for their actions, and the world needs to respond resolutely and immediately before this gets any worse.

Anamana@feddit.de on 01 Apr 2024 19:01 next collapse

Yeah I’m not gonna go to war over gps spamming attacks lol

Prandom_returns@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 19:26 collapse

…because that’s the only thing that russia has ever done to Eruopean countries…

/s

Anamana@feddit.de on 01 Apr 2024 19:35 next collapse

I’m talking from my perspective

Crowfiend@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 21:10 collapse

oh I don’t live there so it’s not my problem

First, they came for my friends, and when they asked for help I said, ‘it doesn’t affect me.’

Then, they came for my direct neighbors, and when they asked for help I said, ‘not my house not my problem.’

Then they came for me, and there was nobody to ask for help.

Anamana@feddit.de on 01 Apr 2024 22:46 collapse

Why are you not yet volunteering in Ukraine then?

TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 23:02 collapse

Well the taxpayer’s money goes towards funding Ukraine.

Anamana@feddit.de on 02 Apr 2024 08:44 collapse

And that’s the same as going to war yourself? I never said I have a problem supporting countries fighting Russia monetarily.

xkforce@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 21:30 collapse

You volunteering to be cannon fodder?

Prandom_returns@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 22:32 collapse

No, it’s your turn.

xkforce@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 23:09 collapse

You want war so bad you can be the cannon fodder.

Prandom_returns@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 23:28 collapse

You’re fucking nuts if you think people want war.

Burn_The_Right@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 02:55 collapse

It stops only when they are forced to stop and not a moment sooner. Who has the will or the ability? In the U.S., conservatives are on Putin’s side, so as long as conservatives have any power (like they do now), they will back him.

The EU is sounding the alarms, but only France is stepping up to the plate ready to fight. As usual, the EU will just hope France will protect the rest of them.

Shurimal@kbin.social on 01 Apr 2024 13:50 next collapse

Guess it's time to dust off those VOR navigation skills, then..

And, as ususal, fuck Putler and his cronies.

nucleative@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 14:34 next collapse

Hopefully a few VOR and DME approaches left in the chart book.

mea_rah@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 15:06 next collapse

Correct me if I’m wrong, but VOR can be jammed just as easily? It’s effectively just ground based GPS.

There are actually devices, that can to a certain extent resist jamming by rejecting signal coming from some direction while amplifying signal from other. Typically they amplify signal from space and reject signal from ground where the jammers would be. So in a way GPS is more resilient against jamming if you can use this device. But AFAIK they are only used for military purposes.

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 15:40 next collapse

That device is called a CRPA (pronounced serpa). They are very effective at anti-jam.

As far as VOR jamming, those use a VHF omni-directional antenna, so it can be jammed. It might be hard because of the omni-directional part and the numbers of them, but definitely doable.

metaldream@sopuli.xyz on 01 Apr 2024 20:32 collapse

Might have to break out the ole INS

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 20:45 collapse

Inertial systems are good enough for rockets going to Mars, so why not a plane flying in a straight line?

oatscoop@midwest.social on 02 Apr 2024 12:34 next collapse

They are used for planes. The problem is the usable ones are stupidly expensive and/or classified millitary hardware.

metaldream@sopuli.xyz on 02 Apr 2024 18:24 collapse

So I read about it on Wikipedia and apparently they’re still the main navigation tool for modern airliners. GPS is just used to maintain the accuracy of the INS.

BastingChemina@slrpnk.net on 01 Apr 2024 15:54 collapse

According to wikipedia all modern aircraft should be equipped with an Inertial Navigation System. A system that gives the position of the aircraft by using a buch of accelerometers and gyroscopes.

The GPS is just there to adjust the position given by the INS.

rooster_butt@lemm.ee on 01 Apr 2024 16:20 collapse

IRSs drifts like crazy. If anything irs is the backup to GNSS currently.

ReiRose@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 15:55 next collapse

the US GPS backup

I’m assuming there’s a European backup to GPS, is there?

rammer@sopuli.xyz on 01 Apr 2024 18:25 collapse

Europe is using same or similar systems. Also Europe has Galileo satnav system. But it has the same drawbacks as GPS.

[deleted] on 01 Apr 2024 20:31 collapse
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deafboy@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 18:13 next collapse

Isn’t that kinda pathetic? Jamming GPS is not hard, nor impressive. It’s just annoying.

CosmicCleric@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 19:02 next collapse

Seems like a message is being sent.

I love to be a fly on the wall behind the scenes, as far as what’s going on between the two sides, that they actually decided to do something as annoying as this.

FlyingSquid@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 21:36 next collapse

That’s all they’ve got left after throwing all of their troops into the meat grinder.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:31 next collapse

Not all. Just too fucking many.

Wiz@midwest.social on 02 Apr 2024 11:12 collapse

The thing about Russia is, they’ve always got more sausage they can make

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 11:27 collapse

That’s why you cotta carve it up so its not ‘Russia’ anymore.

MutilationWave@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 02:32 collapse

Yeah, it worked so well last time.

ricdeh@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 20:22 collapse

Unfortunately, their recruitment rate is at a record high 😕

DontAskAboutUpdog@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 03:59 next collapse

Its on par with bringing the dog out when merkel was visiting. Thats all they have.

[deleted] on 02 Apr 2024 05:19 next collapse
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nutsack@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 09:01 next collapse

looks to be pretty effective to me

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 10:30 collapse

And that effect was…???

shasta@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 12:16 next collapse

Threatening the lives of EU citizens and commerce in an effort to force the European nations to withdraw support from Ukraine.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 12:44 collapse

It was GPS spoofing. The navs fucked up.

Don’t pilots still learn to work with a compas or stars? Radio guidance? Like, nothing that uses GPS is new.

It was just really inconvenient for a bunch of people.

laughterlaughter@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 13:21 collapse

Inconvenience is the point.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 13:28 collapse

So, what, order a bunch of pizzas? Spam everyone with dick pics? I’m not seeing it. This just looks impotent, unless there’s more to it.

laughterlaughter@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 07:03 collapse

You’re missing the point.

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 03 Apr 2024 07:05 collapse

So is your mom.

Or maybe she’s just being really polite about refusing my advances. I don’t have a chance, do I?

Seriously though; what do you think the point is? That Russia’s willing to cross boundaries and do unethical shit? Remember when they stole a major party in american politics?

Siegfried@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 12:44 collapse

Maybe they were just testing reaction time

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 12:49 collapse

On a mostly civilian system with known fallbacks?

Edit: fuck em. You don’t have to fight Russia, you just have to fight Moscow. If they manage to provoke Europe, they lose. Badly. They’re barely managing to hold against supported Ukraine.

Siegfried@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 13:24 collapse

I thought GPS had been kept restricted from civilians for ages for its military uses, I may be wrong though

melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee on 02 Apr 2024 13:27 collapse

Yeah but at this point that’s all redundant, right? any military planner worth shit knows this can happen.

cosmicrookie@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 10:59 next collapse

I dont think they are doing it to impess.

laughterlaughter@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 13:20 collapse

As if being impressive is the goal of these attacks.

lukeblackwell86@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 21:29 next collapse

Drone pilots are going to have to learn how to fold paper maps!

sturmblast@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 2024 22:05 next collapse

I’m betting on Russia being the culprit

[deleted] on 02 Apr 2024 11:03 next collapse
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normalandy@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 11:04 next collapse

Russia, Russia, Russia. Whenever they start crowing about those fuckers I can be sure that the truth is something entirely different.

arf@lemmy.today on 02 Apr 2024 12:12 next collapse

I invite you to check the multitude of examples and references here. Russia’s history of cyberwarfare goes way beyond the US media’s recent obsession.

laughterlaughter@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 13:18 next collapse

Recent? As if the cold war never happened.

BreakDecks@lemmy.ml on 02 Apr 2024 16:52 collapse

They never said “recent”. The cold war ended in 1989, and GPS became fully operational in 1993. Not sure what your point is…

laughterlaughter@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 07:11 collapse

I’m talking about “the U.S. media’s recent obsession.”

The word “recent” is in the comment I replied to.

They never said “recent”.

Are you one of them gaslighters Gen-Zers keep referring to?

normalandy@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 20:04 collapse

The wiki site does say ‘claimed’ for all those attacks

BreakDecks@lemmy.ml on 02 Apr 2024 16:50 next collapse

Have you watched the news in the past 2 years?

blazeknave@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 16:58 collapse

*20

maynarkh@feddit.nl on 02 Apr 2024 18:14 collapse

*70 at least

blazeknave@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 18:22 collapse

Look at J.Edgar here ;p

blazeknave@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 16:59 next collapse

New troll account just created to post this garbage. Mods block please.

jordanlund@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 17:43 collapse

Who else would have the interest or capability of jamming GPS over Europe? Curious to see who you think it could be if not Russia.

Emerald@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 13:38 next collapse

I feel like these planes should be able to fall back on other GNSS. Like Galileo, GLONASS, or even BeiDou.

lengau@midwest.social on 02 Apr 2024 13:45 next collapse

I would guess this is a matter of the media talking about all GNSS as “GPS” rather than the planes only supporting the US military’s navigation system.

BreakDecks@lemmy.ml on 02 Apr 2024 16:48 collapse

GLONASS

Fall back to the Russian GNSS constellation to defend against Russian GNSS manipulation?

Emerald@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 17:42 collapse

I mean hey, why not?

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 02:53 collapse

Let’s be real, they probably aren’t jamming themselves?

Who am I fucking kidding, they probably are with how the war has been going.

BreakDecks@lemmy.ml on 02 Apr 2024 16:47 next collapse

Might be worth some degree of suspicion around including GLONASS as a part of GNSS. Russia could create worldwide issues if they decided to fuck around with their constellation.

theyoyomaster@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 17:03 collapse

It would probably be easier for them to mess with it and not affect themselves than it is with GPS and Galileo.

JasonDJ@lemmy.zip on 02 Apr 2024 17:54 next collapse

How do you stop a jammer like this, short of turning off the transmitters responsible for it?

Everythingispenguins@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 18:01 next collapse

You can’t. Think of it like two radio stations that are too close. It doesn’t matter how good of a receiver you have it will only ever pick up the signals being transmitted. And when there is noise on the frequency then that is what it will pick up.

ricdeh@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 20:20 collapse

Well there’s always the option of outcompeting each other in signal intensity, but I guess that that’s not really possible in this case.

Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 02 Apr 2024 21:35 next collapse

Destroy our otherwise turn off the source of interference.

digeridoo@lemmy.ml on 02 Apr 2024 22:56 next collapse

As others have said, you can’t passively bypass GNSS jamming. The signal more or less has the same amount of power as a 60 watt light bulb, transmitted from a satellite out in Medium Earth Orbit. You throw enough energy at the same frequency as the signal and it’s over. There are ways to improve the receivers resilience by giving it more signals to connect to (GPS, Galileo, GLONASS, BeiDou) or several signals being transmitted by the same constellation (L1, L2, L5).

Also, many different systems occupy pretty much the same frequencies, just with different characteristics which makes all the signals more susceptible.<img alt="" src="https://images.app.goo.gl/TTK8fgog6pJpdUUD6">

trolololol@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 06:14 next collapse

Best way to mitigate is have an inertial system. It’s a calculator that, based on where you are and where you’re heading, keeps track of your updated position.

The math is not that crazy, but with enough time the sensors errors crop up and you’ll be slightly off course, then a bit, then a lot.

cybort1983@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 07:17 collapse

I would suggest HARM Missiles launched from F/A 18 Aircraft. That will teach the effing russians to mess with GPS

Iceman@lemmy.ca on 02 Apr 2024 17:57 next collapse

All right, we’re Jammin’

ikidd@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 02:21 next collapse

Jammin’ in the name of the lord.

RalphFurley@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 02:36 collapse

I was always a fan of Log Jammin

normalandy@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 20:02 next collapse

You could argue ‘who benefits from blaming Russia n Europe?’ - and then look at the propaganda campaign for nato. It’s not in European interests to fight an American war.

Unpigged@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 02 Apr 2024 21:36 next collapse

You’re either a delusional cunt or a russian Ivan on a paycheck as tiny as your limp dick.

Demuniac@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 22:00 next collapse

It’s not an American war, they have literally attacked a European country.

maynarkh@feddit.nl on 03 Apr 2024 00:34 collapse

Yeah, it also doesn’t help with the situation that half of Europe has multiple past Russian invasions in their history, and Russia’s leadership has repeatedly voiced territorial claims to multiple European countries.

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 03 Apr 2024 02:55 collapse

Nice fresh account, vatnik.

normalandy@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 2024 20:05 collapse

Not at all- but definitely not to US or NATO. I also dislike Russia with a passion! Maybe now you can switch and get me on hate speech? 😂