Hamas command centre found under cemetery Israel accused of desecrating (nationalpost.com)
from i_have_no_enemies@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 20:05
https://lemmy.world/post/11380992

#world

threaded - newest

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 30 Jan 2024 20:21 next collapse

Never take Hamas propaganda at face value

FenrirIII@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 20:35 collapse

What about Israeli propaganda?

i_have_no_enemies@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 20:50 next collapse

i guess Palestinian propaganda is more valid than israeli one…?

i don’t know who to trust anymore tbh, this war has weaponized sympathy to the point i do not know who should i give it to

Warl0k3@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 20:52 next collapse

The thousands of dead innocents caught in the middle is where I’ve been keeping my sympathy. They seem to be the only ones suffering in this damn war.

Zellith@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 20:56 next collapse

Exactly. Hamas is comprised of Palestinians, not all Palestinians are Hamas. It's civilians dying to Israelis indiscriminate attacks.

Fuck Israel. Fuck Hamas.

Deceptichum@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 21:10 collapse

The only way to stop groups like Hamas from existing is to stop Israel from murdering and oppressing Palestinians and creating generations of trauma.

Ones cause, the others effect.

Warl0k3@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 22:01 collapse

There’s all manner of explanations as to why this situation arose, but none of them change the root message here: Fuck Hamas, Fuck Israel.

DdCno1@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 22:22 collapse

Quick question: Why Hamas, the government of Gaza, on one hand, but Israel as a whole instead of the Israeli government on the other?

Deceptichum@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 22:42 next collapse

Because Israel is a democracy, and the last time Gaza had an election it was before the majority of them were born.

Warl0k3@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 22:56 collapse

Because Israel is, despite everything else, still an actual fair democracy. The people of Israel voted for their leaders, and continue to support them. Hamas last had an election in what, 2006? And we have no idea if they support Hamas, there hasn’t exactly been an abundance of reputable polling done in Gaza lately.

That gotcha kind of fell flat, didnt it

NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 00:36 collapse

I don’t think they were going for a gotcha.

I think they were trying to bring more awareness into play about blaming the government for what the government is doing, especially when we can all see all the protest that a lot of Israelis are doing.

Like you can not in any way group the “Not in My Name” and Bring Them Home crowds with the Likud crowd.

Endorkend@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 21:20 collapse

Tens of thousands.

Fast approaching 30000.

floofloof@lemmy.ca on 31 Jan 2024 01:40 collapse

And don’t forget that for everyone who dies there are more than two others injured, and many of these injuries will be life-changing. Plus the psychological trauma.

HubertManne@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 20:53 collapse

neither. israel should not even be there but the whole thing started with a hamas attack (well not the whole thing thus point one)

DdCno1@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 21:01 next collapse

What do you mean by "be there"? Exist as a nation or be in Gaza?

HubertManne@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 21:15 collapse

exist as a nation. Put in place by fundamentalist religious types who want to show how the bible predicted this thing they caused to happen.

aniki@lemm.ee on 30 Jan 2024 22:15 next collapse

Don’t forget the mass migrations prior to WW2.

en.wikipedia.org/…/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judais…

DdCno1@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 22:24 collapse

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the persecution of Jews didn't start with WW2 and neither was it limited to areas controlled by Nazi Germany. There are very good reasons why Jews wanted to return to their home country.

aniki@lemm.ee on 30 Jan 2024 22:25 next collapse

Stealing land has always been popular.

DdCno1@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 10:49 next collapse

These Jews legally bought the land. The expulsion of Arab Palestinians didn't start until the Arab League declared war on Israel.

aniki@lemm.ee on 31 Jan 2024 12:56 collapse

From whom did they buy it? The Ottomans?? I don’t think so.

DdCno1@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 13:06 collapse

Yes, from the Ottomans and also from local landowners, especially after the British took over. They preferred purchasing land with few Arab tenants in order to evict as few people as possible. This meant that much of the land was of poor quality for agricultural use, which they solved, after the founding of Israel, by coming up with innovative irrigation methods.

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 31 Jan 2024 12:22 collapse

That land belonged to the Jews a thousand years before Islam took over

aniki@lemm.ee on 31 Jan 2024 12:55 collapse

Land doesn’t belong to anyone you fucking loser.

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 31 Jan 2024 13:18 collapse

imgchest.com/p/qe4gdbvvr4j

This you?

aniki@lemm.ee on 31 Jan 2024 13:20 collapse

No that’s a link.

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 31 Jan 2024 13:41 collapse

You can’t steal land that doesn’t belong to anyone.

HubertManne@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 22:33 collapse

yeah and im sure all us in the americas would be completely fine with a similar thing going on here and that was years that only come into the hundreds.

DdCno1@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 22:20 collapse

I don't even know where to start with a comment this absurd. The founder of the modern state of Israel was anything but a fundamentalist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion#Religious_belief

Not to mention, even if he or any other of the leading figures of his time had been fundamentalists, how would this be a good reason for denying Israel the right to exist right now? Why should that be a criteria? The Palestinian leader at the time, Amin al-Husseini, was most definitely a fundamentalist by modern stadnards, so does this mean that a Palestinian state should not exist either?

HubertManne@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 22:34 collapse

one person is not the reason israel came into being. it would never have made it without the fundamentalists pushing support for it.

DdCno1@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 07:45 collapse

Can you describe who these supposed fundamentalists are supposed to be, how large this group and their influence was? Because it can't be the Haredi, who were far too small and insignificant a group in 1948.

HubertManne@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 12:44 collapse

You seem to think im just talking about jewish settler types whereas why that is a small portion of folks responsible for israels existence im talking about european and american financial and political supporters both jewish and christian. Its the christians in particular who wanted to artificially verify their prophecy.

DdCno1@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 13:00 collapse

The reason why I read your comment that way is because America wasn't exactly an ardent supporter of Israel in its early days beyond recognizing it first, even going so far as to enforce an arms embargo against it. The UK also enforced this embargo. The most significant support out of Europe came from France, which had very strong ties with Israel, including in particular in regards to both nations' atomic weapons programs. West Germany became a supporter of the young state starting in the early 1950s, when its Holocaust reparations became a major source of funding (and free imports of vital goods) for the government in Tel Aviv.

American Evangelical support of Israel really only started to take off and become a force in American politics in the wake of the Six-Days war, when America, in order to counter Soviet influence in the region, began to back Israel directly. This was also when economic ties started to intensify. Evangelicals, while having voiced support of Zionism earlier (just like more moderate American Christians), more or less rode the coattails of this development.

HubertManne@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 13:36 collapse

I would call recognizing it pretty ardent support given that situation. Again how would the US view countries that supported a country that recognized a first nation country west of the mississippi. Would they be not exactly ardent supporters. Im pretty sure for me your moderate american christians would be to me fundamentalist and in the early days support can be counted in one way. Money. Its the same with terrorist groups today. All of them rely on funding from ultimately more legitimate sources. It may get washed in various way but they need the cash flow. Don't get me wrong it had much more legitamacy given the whole start with the league of nations idea wise, but right off the bat the way the borders were unclear and changed from one interpretation to another it was a cesspool to start with and both europe and america should have just stopped in that region. I mean this crazy stuff goes back to the crusades and it was never a good idea to be there.

lolcatnip@reddthat.com on 30 Jan 2024 23:11 collapse

History didn’t start on Oct 7.

HubertManne@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 03:53 next collapse

agreed.

DdCno1@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 07:49 collapse

No, but it ended for the Palestinians as a political entity with their own agency that day. Future historians will cite this event as the one that sealed the fate of the Palestinians as the losers of this conflict forever. October 7 showed Israel that Palestinians can not be trusted to govern themselves, that the only way the Israeli state can ensure its safety is by having a tight grip over Palestinian affairs, like in the West Bank.

I'm stating this as an observation, not as an expression of support of how Israel is conducting itself in the West Bank. However, I do believe that nothing Israel has ever done justifies the atrocities of October 7 and I sure hope that you were not trying to justify those either.

Kaboom@reddthat.com on 30 Jan 2024 21:40 collapse

That has a habit of being true

guriinii@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 20:23 next collapse

The IDF didn’t find shit. Nothing they say is credible anymore.

Rapidcreek@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 20:24 next collapse

Trying to calculate if there would be any media apology. So far I’m stuck at slim to none.

givesomefucks@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 20:27 next collapse

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Post

Just another rightwing Islamaphobic website

Altofaltception@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 21:22 collapse

Not just that. They are sourcing this from the Jewish News Syndicate.

mediabiasfactcheck.com/jewish-news-syndicate-jns/

Overall, We rate the Jewish News Syndicate as Right-Center biased based on its editorial position in support of the Israeli government. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to poor sourcing techniques and the promotion of one-sided propaganda.

Kbin_space_program@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 21:47 collapse

National Post, like Canada's other far right newspaper, the Globe and Mail, can be safely ignored as right wing corporate propaganda.

As can everything in Global News and CTV News.

Altofaltception@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 22:21 collapse

The Globe is most definitely not far right.

Kbin_space_program@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 01:01 collapse

They supported Harper and support Polievre.
You know, both part of the previous government that fought AGAINST abortion rights

aniki@lemm.ee on 30 Jan 2024 20:27 next collapse

this is an office?? This looks like an unfinished basement.

DarkGamer@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 20:59 collapse

There was no recliner and Ottoman from which to comfortably launch my intifada, I'm giving it two stars on HamasBNB.

(Image caption says that's a tunnel, not sure if that's the office part.)

athos77@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 21:08 next collapse

In the meantime: Israel claims a tunnel ran through this Gaza cemetery it destroyed. A visit to the site raised more questions than answers. Or if you prefer video: IDF says they destroyed this Gaza graveyard because of Hamas activity. CNN can't find the evidence.

Hmm, who to believe, who to believe: the genocidal maniacs determined to destroy every trace or hope of Palestinian life in Gaza, or the non-aligned journalists to whom Israel is repeatedly making claims that they refuse to provide evidence for or which are shown to be outright lies - I just can't decide!

SharkAttak@kbin.social on 30 Jan 2024 22:15 collapse

Still, the main problem here is that they bombed a cemetery and think there's a justification.

Zaktor@sopuli.xyz on 30 Jan 2024 22:32 next collapse

I love how the (propaganda) title says “accused of desecrating”. They DID desecrate it, they’re just fishing around for a justification.

dogslayeggs@lemmy.world on 30 Jan 2024 22:40 next collapse

I would actually prefer they bomb cemeteries instead of hospitals and schools, but I understand why people would be upset about it.

NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social on 31 Jan 2024 00:30 collapse

Bulldozer

febra@lemmy.world on 31 Jan 2024 06:33 next collapse

Haven’t they also claimed that there’s a command center under Al Shifa Hospital? The one they have captured two months ago? They’ve been awfully quiet about that one. I haven’t heard them say one thing about this supposed command center since they captured it. No proof. Why would it be different this time?

speaker_hat@lemmy.one on 31 Jan 2024 13:18 collapse

Hamas has no limits, no respect to no one, even for the dead.