from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 27 Dec 2023 13:31
https://lemmy.world/post/10025673
In a YouTube video, a voice in English announces that China has researched and developed its own ultra-thin 1-nanometer chip – a staggering claim given that the chip isn’t expected in commercial devices for another decade.
“Recent news from China has sent ripples of excitement and astonishment across the globe,” gushes the voice-over on the China Charged YouTube channel. “This revolutionary breakthrough is more than a technological marvel; it is a game-changer that will redefine the global tech landscape.”
“Prepare to have your mind blown,” says another video, this time on the channel Unbelievable Projects. “Welcome to today’s video, in which we’ll discover why America remains behind China in infrastructure development.”
These voices and their “good news” about China are evidence that the Chinese Communist Party and its overseas proxies are using artificial intelligence to flood YouTube with propaganda videos, according to a new report that describes a “coordinated inauthentic influence campaign” on the platform.
#world
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I’d be surprised if it’s just China
At this point, I assume every major government has the capabilities and the intent to use AI for exactly this purpose.
Oppose at all fronts you can, this is not okay.
everyone has massive propaganda departments if they can afford it
it’s so so extremely useful for driving political support
the US even has dedicated “Psychological Operations” divisions in the Army
It’s not. Youtube is full of AI-generated content. Mostly conspiracy bullshit targeted at republicans and other right wingers. But it’s only now when China does it, it makes it to the headlines.
Sometimes I wonder if there are different “levels” of propaganda nation states put out. Like you have this obviously fake crap get a bunch of surface-knowlege people. Then you have more subtle things put out - like social media accounts pretending that something false is a ground truth. You’ll then get people who can catch the fake videos and then believe the fake accounts no problem because it’s obviously can’t be propaganda - because you know what propaganda looks like. cough gell-mann amnesia cough
Or maybe nation states are really that incompetent and the only level of propaganda they can put out is like the article’s videos. Honestly people give way too much credit to how much these folks know/plan out. There’s no secret cabal playing 5d chess. They’re normal people (ie. dumbfucks) pushing a message.
Who knows.
Propaganda is a quantity over quality game. You’re not trying to convince the die-hard supporters of the other side, that’s not realistic. You’re trying to give informational cover to your own side.
It’s like suppressive fire. Is the machine gunner specifically trying to kill the enemy? No, he’s sending bullets whizzing overhead to change their behavior. Then his buddies can circle around their cover and very specifically aim at and kill them.
edit: You are right that it’s no 5d chess though. It’s more like the excuses you’d get out of a young kid. Just flak, intended to get in the way. Fired in quantity.
That makes sense, but the targets of my first paragraph wouldn’t be the die-hards. It would be people who think they can identify fake news - but their hubris is what makes tricking them even easier. It would actually be much easier making fake accounts than making the fake YT videos.
If I was to use your analogy - it’d be like if the gunner’s level of effort to land hits or to whiff were the same. [S]he’d obviously just hit them.
There’s also Russian style propaganda which isn’t really about sending any specific message but more about sowing chaos. It’s about blasting people with so much contradictory information that they become overwhelmed and exhausted and just give up trying to pay attention to anything. To say it a different way it’s about lowering the signal to noise ratio to the point where most people lose the signal.
China tends to favor targeted disinformation, they tightly control what people hear and have specific messages they push. Russia just tries to scream incoherent gibberish where nobody can hold a conversation anymore.
“Flood the zone with shit”
— Steve Bannon
There’s also the crap “China will collapse in XX days” propaganda on YouTube as well
It’s fucking everywhere
What’s next? They landed on the dark side of the sun? North Korea already did that.
Well, China has to steal their tech from some foreign company, why not lie about it before they do.
Disclaimer: I didnt watch the video but did see the original post in question on Lemmy and was impressed. Now I’ll never believe another pro-China post again. Nice work!
Alarming as this may sound, they’re beating a dead horse. Most of the people who would believe this shit uncritically also think Fox “News” is the gospel truth. They’re already lost.
Yeah ive blocked every channel reccomendation ive gotten that so much as smells like shoe polish.
The specifics of this article aside, I am so not looking forward to the continued proliferation of AI based bullshit on the internet/public discourse/the media/etc. It’s gonna get so so much worse, we’re just scratching the surface right now. The validity of any photo or video will be destroyed and nothing will be trustworthy anymore. This is great news for fascists who thrive in a world where the truth is unknowable and meaningless.
The specifics of US propaganda aside…
> The videos are part of at least 30 channels identified by researchers as being part of the “Shadow Play” network promoting pro-China and anti-U.S. narratives, according to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.
> according to the Australian Strategic Policy Institute
> Australian
It’s just sort of kind of like a slightly more advanced form of spam, or trolling, or really fucked up propaganda/news. The integrity of the ideas and the evidence itself is more what should be evaluated in an argument anyways, rather than the source, and I don’t think like, evidence, generally, like, evidence in general, proof of things in general, is going anywhere anytime soon. I don’t think AI is advanced enough to break encrypted p2p communication, so I don’t really think there’s much of a chance that shit just gets totally wiped off the internet and you start seeing like mass memory hole type shit. It’s more likely that you end up seeing mass disinformation campaigns. You know, like what we’ve had since forever, where you get the population to do it to themselves.
Culturally there is no real concept of plagiarism or cheating in China. Any shortcut is acceptable, because if you aren’t using it someone else is.
Everyone plagiarises until they become powerful enough to influence others to stop or face sanctions.
Fake it till you make it. Once you make it, call out others plagiarism.
blame the game, not the player
Competition comes with copying some of components. All Android OEMs, including Samsung copy each other.
RFA is literally a propaganda source.
Yes but it’s pro-Western and thus good
Give them a break they don’t have a 24 hour cable news channel for propaganda
I’m shocked.
They’ve also infiltrated the administration of lemmy.ml and specifically c/worldnews.
Can someone please explain to me the drama of Lemmy.ml and why everyone seems to be leaving it?
I don’t know. I just saw a thread there yesterday about “young people are more favorable on China” and inevitably the discussion ended up being largely about the many Chinese atrocities, all of which the mods promptly removed, as well as leaving all the comments claiming that those were all CCP bots coming to…spread anti-Chinese propaganda?
I dunno, don’t take my word for it, head over to worldnews@lemmy.ml and have a look for yourself through the barren comment sections.
Better yet, look at the modlog.
Proper link - couldn’t find the referenced thread
Complaint about the server from six months ago
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !worldnews@lemmy.ml
Lemmy.ml is run by ML. Marxist-LENINIST. They will not allow almost any critique of any government that falls under that umbrella ever. But will gladly hypocritically criticize any western power for the same thing.
If it was wrong for the US Britain and the west to do it. It’s wrong for China, North Korea today or the Soviet Union in their time to have done it as well. Not a free pass for them to do it. When it comes to anything criticizing their political ideologies you may as well be on something like lemmy.conservative in many ways.
I mentioned EVs aren’t the savior that people are pitching because they still require plastics and rare earth metals and often are fueled by electricity made with coal/oil.
They got so fucking mad lol
These are conservative talking points that have been repeatedly dispelled. Where are you getting this info from?
These are not conservative talking points that’s so disingenuous dude.
EVs require metals that aren’t really too great to mine for our planet, most of the time that mining requires the use of diesel despite what we wanna believe.
I’m all for green energy and better awareness of our species pollution but you’re basically being duped by Elon Musk wannabes promising the future that will turn out just like everything Elon does, absolutely trash and we’re gonna wonder why we wasted time with half of this shit.
The real solution is cars gotta go, public transit needs to be the only transit and parking lots and roads gotta go but the car industry and the infrastructure we invested in is too worth it so we will follow the sunk cost off the cliff and people like you will support it because its slightly better than it used to be even though it is still bad.
Because drilling and transporting oil is so environmentally friendly? Comparatively it is significantly less destructive. Especially when you look at ocean drilling, which is the majority of it.
No dude, you are the one being duped by conservative propaganda. My sources have nothing to do with Elon Musk.
I mean yes, but now you’re moving the goal posts.
No your original point was “EVs aren’t the savior that people are pitching”. They are exactly what people are pitching. If you read anything that said EVs were going to save the planet and end pollution, that was conservative strawman propaganda. If you read anything about EVs polluting more because they get their energy from coal plants, that was conservative propaganda.
EVs are a green alternative to fossil fuels. If you want to argue that we should get away from cars entirely, I think most here would agree with you, but that’s not what you said.
Next can you talk about the problem with renewables? Just to come full circle
Nothing is wrong with renewables but you’ve definitely also read about greenwashing right?
It is basically that. For what people are proposing we need to change the entire economic system away from capitalism and this endless green line go up logic. Until then everything will continue to be this way no matter how we dress it.
Yeah, don’t try to make anything better. It’s a waste of time unless you’re trying to overhaul the entire economic system.
What a smooth-brained take.
Literally makes nothing better prolongs the same problems
The only thing EVs save are the automobile industry.
The point is that the rise of electic cars slows down the kinds of fundamental shifts and, most importantly, policy changes we need in order to actually get sustainable.
While it can be seen as an improvement, at the end of the day we end up not taking measures we absolutely should. Everyone is just advertising EV’s as a solution, which they are not. At best, it’s a transient stage before people can finally accept they cannot drive a car in an environmentally friendly way, ever.
That’s quite the conclusion jump. You can be critical of EVs from a leftist perspective even if so much EV hate is from conservatives.
EVs are an improvement from petrol powered vehicles but they are not in any way good. There is still plenty of pollution from the construction of the vehicle, the transport of materials, the atomized rubber from the tires, and the pollution from it’s energy source (even if it’s less total greenhouse gas emissions as opposed to a petrol based vehicle). EVs will not save the climate even if every car was replaced.
Here’s more info
And some more
That has more to do with you regurgitating misinformation, than it does with the Chinese.
Those arguments have been debunked ad nauseam.
It literally isn’t misinformation though? EVs are still polluting. There is no world with cars and buildings without pollution my guy especially now where we are at with technology.
Nothing has been debunked?
For the energy source aspect, it’s much more efficient to have a single big place to generate electricity compared to having millions of portable combustion engines running around inside cars. It’s also easier to switch to a cleaner energy if a wind farm or a solar power plant if you’re a state or some entity that’s responsible for energy generation in your region.
TBH my biggest pet peeve on an EV is basically every EV is a privacy sucking machine. They record everything and send everything home. Give me a car like my old car that doesn’t have any telemetry and the technology is simple enough I can even push start the car when the alternator is fully dead.
While it is true that a centralized energy source is more efficient and clean it still isn’t enough. Even if every car was replaced by an EV it wouldn’t solve our climate crisis. The only thing it would save is the automobile industry.
Here’s so info
And more
Nobody, and I do literally mean nobody, has ever said that BEVs would single-handedly solve climate change.
Congratulations on knocking down the strawman you have created.
No you aren’t.
kbin.social/m/worldnews@lemmy.ml/t/…/4317491
lemmy.world/comment/6271064
kbin.social/m/worldnews@lemmy.ml/t/…/4317491
ok
None of those comments say what you’re alleging they say lmao, they’re saying what I just said
HAHAHAHAHA fuck me. What an own goal.
Which ones oth these say that electric cars will single-handedly halt climate change? I’m waiting.
Lol what the fuck are you dumb?
lemmy.world/comment/6270768
Read between the lines. This kid is telling me in 12 months diesel will be gone by EVs and then nothing, just that’s it. Guess that’s the final solution.
Another tells me I have no hope. There is no hope the car industry and infrastructure is bad overall entirely.
They’re basically arguing once we get EVs car pollution is solved and checked so we can move on. And that’s just not true.
No they aren’t. Stop making stuff up.
Okay strawman boy whatever you say
Point me to where these people are saying BEVs will single-handedly end climate change, like you alleged.
Cute strawman. Nobody is going to say those exact words this isn’t a magic spell and without those words I’m wrong you fuckin idiot.
The only thing EVs do is prolong a car industry. These dopes genuinely believe EVs are the car solution. Don’t be stupid
You’re being stupid.
The reason why you can’t find anybody saying that is because literally nobody thinks it. You were lying when you said people were telling you that. Then you doubled down on the lie.
Moral of the story, don’t tell lies, it makes you look like an idiot.
Literally straw man lol fuck out of here with your obtuse bullshit
Zero strawmans from me.
You’re the one who said people were saying EVs would single-handedly solve climate change. All I did was refute your strawman bullshit.
Now you’re just doing a playground style “…no you are!!!” because you can’t come up with anything to defend yourself. Embarrassing.
BEVs are happening and they’re better. Cry more.
You’re an idiot. You set a make believe easily defensible position, they have to say those exact words or no.
I’m telling you the push back against EVs being bad shows people do not understand this is just a continuation of the same industry that really pushed us here. EVs are not the solution and showed you examples of people being mad at me for saying that.
You’re literally brain rotted lmfao you don’t know anything you’re saying
I never said they have to say those exact words, that’s just another strawman you’ve concocted.
I’m telling you to show me where people have said EVs are a solution to climate change.
I’m still waiting. Maybe you’ll show me these comments that totally definitely exist after you’re done throwing your toys out of the pram? Oh wait you won’t because nobody has ever said it.
Moron.
i think the only thing deft is deft at is the dunning Kruger effect.
You’ve just knocked down strawman yourself.
The point made by commenter is not that cars are the only source of climate change, but that EV industry is in itself heavily polluting and unsustainable. While it is true that it is a little less heavy on the environment than an ICE car (assuming you drive it regularly, because building an EV is less environmentally friendly, actually), it is still an incredibly environmentally unfriendly solution.
Manufacturing is super polluting and expends very limited resources in huge quantities. Energy sources are normally NOT green, and even if they are, they are not harmless, too. Tyres are still a giant problem. Parking lots require a lot of urban spaces, which leads to stretching cities and exacerbating problems with all transportation, as well as leading to deforestation on the outskirts and ramped up asphalt production. More roads are required, meaning again, more intervention in natural ecosystems, extreme amounts of resources and pollution.
There is simply no way you can drive a 2-ton car to move ~70kg human around with it making any ecological sense, while many people pretend that EV’s are here to save us. No, sorry, they are not; you’ll have to change your habits if you want to keep Earth habitable. Period.
But they are being marketed as a very sustainable and ecologically friendly method of transportation which they very much are not. There’s no straw man there I just used a hypothetical to accentuate the meaninglessness of “more sustainable” forms of overconsumption. Cars are an incredibly wasteful and absurd form of daily transportation; especially in mass. The fight against climate change will directly affect your life and you will have to change aspects of your life for the benefit of the world as a whole. We cannot continue our path of overconsumption and overproduction and expect it to just work out or become sustainable in the future somehow. If the solution is being sold it isn’t the solution
Obviously, I’m aware that no one believes EVs will single handedly solve climate change. I’m not stupid and I don’t think you are either
It literally is…
No one thinks they’re not polluting. Everything you consume is polluting. But EVs pollute significantly less than their dino-fuel-powered counterparts, that’s the point you’re missing.
Lmfao no I get the point you literally named what I’m saying and gloss over it and this is why this situation we are under is inevitable
This debate is clearly one of different goalposts.
Electric car fans will fairly notice that electric cars are less bad than traditional ICE cars, and therefore the technology is good
Anti-car folks will also rightfully point out that there’s too much focus on EVs at the time when we should move away from cars altogether, and that electric car future is also very unsustainable, just a little bit less, while giving the false impression of something “green”
I agree but it’s not a “false impression”. They ARE green. Just because they’re not the most environmentally friendly thing on the planet doesn’t mean they’re not green.
I’d be elated if we all moved away from cars but that’s simply not realistic anytime in the near future.
We should certainly establish the same definition of “green”, as it is so wide it encompasses both of our positions.
I claim that most people expect EVs to be the solution for eco-friendly transportation that is sustainable and future-proof. And this is not true. That’s what I meant.
It’s important to clear out why it is unrealistic in order to address it. I see two reasons: 1.Governments not doing enough to promote and build effective public transit 2.People not willing to lose comfort of driving their own car - something that insulates them from other people and allows to move anywhere anytime.
And both are solvable through policy changes. First, we desperately need to invest in public transit. We can get money by taxing car sales more, which will shift both sides of the equation by making cars less affordable, while at the same time freeing up money for public transit development (of course, less sales of cars should be factored in). We need more routes, more comfortable conditions for passengers, more relatively low-scale options to drive passengers to less popular destinations. We also need to subsidize taxi and car rentals for cases when someone actually needs a car.
But those are the solutions that might get negative reaction of the public at first, and this tension is to me the most problematic (of course after lobbying made by automakers). Populist leaders will never go for that step, or they risk losing their popularity and influence.
Lemmy.ml got mad about EV hate?? I generally see pretty well informed pro urbanism/public transport takes on there so I’m surprised. Maybe I’m just more used to hexbear
honestly they just expect more evidence
I think they’re not moderated by Americans so their standard for what’s “acceptable” is less “what’s politically-aligned” but “what’s backed by the available evidence”
Administration? Lemmy was built by a guy that denies tiananmen square massacre.
Before you get downvoted by the tankies, note for historical accuracy (so that I will be downvoted because they like that even less, OTOH lemmygrad doesn’t even see me so w/e): The massacres were in side streets, not on the square itself. The party was at first split as to how to deal with the protests, the students were to simplify quite a bit Dengists alarmed by the power shifts within the party away from Dengism following Hu Yaobang’s death. Hardline faction was amassing the army outside of Peking, Peking locals went out there and handed them noodles and explanations as to the situation, explaining that the protesters were their sons and daughters, good socialists^1^, not some bourgeois anti-revolutionary mob. Dengist faction lost out in the internal party struggle, hardliners decided that the army shall march, army marched, Peking locals erected barricades etc. in the streets leading to the square, get massacred, army arrives at square, delivers final ultimatum, students retreat, with no further or at least minimal bloodshed.
^1^ According to Marxist-Leninist-Maoist type thought. People understanding actual theory understand that Dengists are even more capitalist than Lenin, but MLs never acknowledge that state capitalism is, indeed, capitalism, and Dengists never acknowledge that they’re not even doing state capitalism any more but run of the mill oligarchic capitalism.
Weird, as social leaning instance, they should be opposed to modern China! Should we help them?
Amazing how effective propaganda can be.
Got banned from there today for suggesting that disappearing prisoners isn’t the status quo in “the west”.
Oddly enough I’ve been downvote-stalked since and I find it hilarious.
They do it here too. Anything positive coming out of china is full of this shit and bootlickers quick behind them.
Certainly are a lot more downvotes on any comments that insult China, Israel, Russia, etc.
Anything positive coming from anywhere is likely to be at least strongly exaggerated.
true shit
Do people really get their news and information from random YouTube channels?
YouTube is not a reliable source!
I get mine from Lemmy
Yep i know a lot of people at least in my country. If not YT, then they get it from FB
TBF, the FriendlyJordies are a reliable news source, but that’s more of an exception to the rule.
The problem isn’t getting your new from YouTube. But rather random YouTube channels. It’s like saying “Do people really get their news from random news sites”
Yeah it seems a lot of people do. Especially if it’s linked through social media, I would guess a non trivial amount of people won’t fact check it or check the source.
My father in law watches this crap all the time. Also every war propaganda video.
… if not that, Thai boxing or bear hunting. Ya never know what he’ll be watching as long as it’s one of those. Oh unless it’s Friday night, then he’s watching SmackDown.
I automatically dismiss any argument that uses a YouTube video as evidence. If it’s legit, there’s going to be text that goes with it.
Neither is Wikipedia
or Lemmy
and yet…
Yep.
Next week: China develops world’s first 0nm chip!
-12nm
“Your joke, but worse!”
I wonder if the AI has caught on to a lot of the abusable mechanics of YT like an upload schedule, opening livestreams or premieres in multiple windows, the upvote/downvote exploit, etc. There is a solid possibility that an AI has better strats than we do.
The AI is just being used to create the content itself. The upload process is still just a script. The AI can only adjust parameters set by the person, and the person creating the setup likely isn’t adding in any of the other factors
An actual AI influencer who could control all that would be interesting. What kind of strategies it would make to get the most engagements
Very Hard to train since I assume you would need real human feedback for each run of course
I think you could just let it push a bunch of buttons and fill in fields at random or with sample data and then score each generation based on user engagement and views, it wouldn’t need that much human feedback during the development phase but the downside would be slightly less control over the content it pushes.
doubt it, it’s not that advanced lol
Yeah I was really letting my imagination run wild, there.
“Oh bother! America steals all the hunny!”
at this point I’m convinced China was just copying all of the “China gonna collapse in 3 days” videos
This article is itself propaganda that aims to provoke hatred with the most ridiculous justifications possible.
…and? Nobody cares when Intel or AMD talk about their latest research. The writer doesn’t even try to present the design as unviable or fake, they just arbitrarily decide that it’s evil to talk about it.
Gadzooks not the American infrastructure! How dare they criticize that! I guess we should ban all the fuckcars communities because they’re always comparing American infrastructure to other countries unfavorably. And that’s undermining american democracy or something. What is this person smoking?
The 1nm claim is about as believable as hearing that China built a space elevator. It does not need debunking, it debunks itself.
Probably because aimed at an American audience, in Europe we know that our infrastructure is shit but also don’t compare ourselves to China but rather to the likes of Japan or Switzerland (who unlike the rest of us actually get trains right). Mostly because Chinese infrastructure is a lot of bling and relatively sparse but high-impact projects, compared to where they were 50 years ago it’s impressive but looking at the whole country it’s quite uneven development. Ukraine has better rural infrastructure than China, and unlike China Ukraine is piss-poor. Comparisons to the US come into play when it comes to what not to do.
This is very poor form, at least employ agents like the american 3 letters.
All other USAGM-funded outlets have the same perspective as RFA. I stopped reading RFE/RL anymore because it was tiring.
Can someone translate “The Boy Who Cried Wolf” into Chinese please.
Here is what the AI generated image from the bingilator looks like of that… (you know one good turn requires another)
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/85f44766-457c-4c63-9590-1d37e71f3c98.jpeg">
This made me think of what you can do with AI to poke fun at china, and sadly it seems that microsoft is a bit hard on anti china prompts. But like, life finds a way…
<img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/073662e3-0baf-4843-b87a-203d52089353.jpeg"> <img alt="" src="https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/c6a30878-4c70-452f-afdf-3d32836d4834.jpeg">