autotldr@lemmings.world
on 21 Apr 2024 23:05
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Kremlin warned that American support for Ukraine could turn into a decade-long folly, urging the U.S. to not oppose its invasion of the country as Congress appears set to pass a $60 billion aid package.
The aid deal comes after months of negotiations, with support for Ukraine wavering among American conservatives as the Russian military gains ground after two years of fighting.
The House passed a broad foreign aid spending bill on Saturday that includes funds for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan for a total of $95 billion.
“With the boost that would come from military assistance‚ both practically and psychologically — Ukrainians are entirely capable of holding their own through 2024 and puncturing Putin’s arrogant view that time is on his side,” Burns said Thursday.
“Without supplemental assistance, this picture is a lot more dire, and there is a very real risk that the Ukrainians could lose on the battlefield by the end of 2024,” he continued.
The U.S. and NATO allies have refused to send their own troops to Ukraine, the fundamental difference between the conflict and those in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
The original article contains 295 words, the summary contains 183 words. Saved 38%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
jeena@jemmy.jeena.net
on 21 Apr 2024 23:08
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The question is, which time Afganistan, when Russia had to get out or the US?
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
on 21 Apr 2024 23:52
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Was about to say, at least the US withdrawing from Afghanistan isn’t literally a cause of the entire country collapsing into 14 smaller new states and also the entire western bloc
Tbf it kinda is, because if the US had gone into Afghanistan with a plan to help Afghani’s fix infrastructure, homes, trade routes, etc things would have turned out far better than they did.
GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
on 22 Apr 2024 20:09
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exactly the fuckers say like usa is fighting there lol
BigilusDickilus@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 01:57
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At the risk of being jingoistic, this type of opponent is exactly what our military is designed to utterly destroy. If the US was an active participant it would have very quickly wiped the floor with the Russian army and would be dealng with Russian backed insurgents in the east.
Ukraine has been beating them with the stuff we routinely throw away (when the Republicans don’t get in the way), I am convinced they have no non nuclear answer to our actual military.
40 years ago maybe, but afaik after 20 years of Iraq and Afghanistan the us army has shifted quite far into focusing on counterinsurgency and away from fighting vs mass armor and artillery
Valmond@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 20:01
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The USA has plans, thousands of plans and how to modify them agains the russians (well the USSR), and that’s as important as having the right tools/weapons.
BigilusDickilus@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 20:05
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I mean, they’ve gotten way better at it, but most of their equipment and doctrine are still targeted at utterly destroying a near peer level threat. The f-22 wasn’t designed to fight insurgents, nor is it suited to that task.
I would think that the USAF would happily establish and easily enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine and could probably pull it off within a few days of getting the order conservatively.
There was the story a few years ago when a well equipped and trained Wagner battalion “accidentally” picked a flight with a US army unit or base in Syria and got immediately demolished.
Writing this out definitely feels like braggadocio and it likely is. But I would think the Russians don’t want to find out why we don’t have universal healthcare first hand.
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
on 21 Apr 2024 23:56
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It’s actually kinda incredible for Russia to have not realized that the US is literally just letting Ukraine integrate itself into NATO standards by training on and building up NATO standard equipment as it runs out of the shitty Soviet era alternatives
Meanwhile Moscow is instead developing a dependency on Iranian and Chinese made military hardware, stuff that neither is especially willing to part with given their own war plans.
The US could 1000% just barely provide enough aid to tactically let Russia chew its teeth out trying to break Ukraine, but it’s sending what Ukraine needs to win whenever it can because the US sees Ukraine winning as more important than Russia losing at this point.
BombOmOm@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 00:40
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US is literally just letting Ukraine integrate itself into NATO standards by training on and building up NATO standard equipment as it runs out of the shitty Soviet era alternatives
Not just Ukraine, either! All the NATO Eastern Bloc countries donated their Soviet equipment (and much more) and are actively rearming and retraining their own militaries on NATO standard equipment.
fluxion@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 02:25
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Unfortunately “barely enough” is closer to the mark. Ukraine should’ve had this funding last year and we should’ve been close to the next round at this point. If this is actually all America can muster when it is committed to “winning” then then thats a bit sad and scary considering the incompetent broke ass country we are trying to beat while having homecourt advantage.
The only thing that gives me solace is the thought that this is carefully architected to bleed out Russia and not actually a show of real force.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 12:58
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You have to remember that half of the political parties in the US are owned by and promote Russian interests. That’s the only reason it took 8 months to get this funding approved, and it was approved in spite of the former fuckwit president.
trolololol@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 02:50
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If only they had oil, they’d be a free country neo-colony of Biden a long time ago
kerrigan778@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 23:33
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They have enormous amounts of natural gas dipshit.
trolololol@lemmy.world
on 24 Apr 2024 23:28
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That’s Russia, I meant Ukraine would be free if they had oil
Shit head
kerrigan778@lemmy.world
on 25 Apr 2024 06:19
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The Black Sea Ukrainian Shelf was discovered in 2012 to contain an estimated 2 trillion cubic meters of natural gas. Access to a huge portion of it depends on Crimea which was annexed in 2014.
US is literally just letting Ukraine integrate itself into NATO standards by training on and building up NATO standard equipment
Excellent point. Due to the equipment Ukraine now has the west is at a point where they will stand to lose a lot of valuable technology if Russia wins making it necessary for western intervention if things go bad for Ukraine.
when russia does the invade i believe that. but now ukraine have to break through heavily fortified occupied territories. idk how ukraine can manage with current donations and if they still have enough manpower. ukraine also suffers heavy casualty
muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee
on 22 Apr 2024 22:57
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Well the us finally pushed through funding and ukraines strategy has been to take opportunities with very heigh kd ratios. Its doable and when its a right for ur nation that’s all ya need
TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee
on 23 Apr 2024 11:54
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There are a lot of Russians, and nobody dies quite like them
muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee
on 23 Apr 2024 23:14
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“Die for your tsar and receive no glory for you are nothing but animals” - every Russian leader ever
foggy@lemmy.world
on 21 Apr 2024 23:54
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Lots of Russians died in WWII, yes (actually just realizing I don’t know anything about the breakdown of casualties or deaths in WWI). But if you count the number of casualties inflicted I imagine it would scale with losses experienced. Except for the USA, since we kinda cheated with the whole Hiroshima and Nagasaki thing
In WWII, Russia had about 1 gun to every 5 soldiers.
They literally had dudes running the lines without guns, and their battle plan was to pick up dead comrades weapons.
Russia has absolutely no war cred. Win or lose. they’re a laughing stock, every time.
How about that time they lost hundreds of soldiers to a single Finnish Sniper. They thought “The White Death” was a whole fucking army, it was a fucking local farmer.
Russians are absolute legendary goobers on the battlefield, historically. And this Ukraine war is no different. Sending confused untrained teenagers to the front lines to abandon tanks. Classic Russia.
In terms of military support, America reduces their support for Ukraine because they need to support Israel more. Now just about time, they need more resources to fight Iran.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 09:52
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The U.S. house just passed a series of bills where over $60 billion is going to Ukraine aid and $24 billion is going to Israel.
You sure about that?
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
on 23 Apr 2024 09:00
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America reduced their support to ukraine because republicans control the house
Tebbie@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 00:32
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Ukraine wants the help. Afghanistan didn’t. Also, the Soviet Union did a similar thing in Afghanistan.
Afghani’s did want the help. They just didn’t want someone else telling them what they should do … again.
PugJesus@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 01:52
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Yeah, remember when we told them NOT to make apostasy from Islam illegal?
Oh, wait, we didn’t even bother doing that much.
The War in Afghanistan didn’t fail because we were Big Bad Westerners Imposing Our Way Of Life, it failed because neither the Coalition nor the post-Ahmad Shah Massoud anti-Taliban forces had anything resembling a united direction they could agree on leading the country in. Post-2003 the Coalition plan was “Don’t fail” (Don’t fail at what? Now you’re asking questions that should have been fucking asked); the post-Ahmad Shah Massoud anti-Taliban forces’ plan was “Every warlord for himself”.
Turns out absolute shitheads (the Taliban) with a definite plan can overcome a squabbling mass of decent people (everyday Afghanis), opportunists (contractors et co), and shitheads (hi brutal but pro-national government warlords) who are all at odds with each other.
I always know someone doesn’t know anything about Afghanistan and its people when they refer to them as Afghani’s.
An Afghan is a person. Afghani is a currency. Anyone who calls them Afghani doesn’t even know the right term to call the people. It is a giveaway to how little you know about them when you don’t even know what to call them.
Meanwhile all the Chineses and Viet Congs are turning in their graves right next to the Afgani.
Varyk@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 00:38
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Russian officials publicly assure the world that their invasion will only last 1 week due to their overwhelming military superiority.
109 weeks later without a victory, losing twice as many soldiers and equipment, Russian officials swear that the US, not an active combatant, is going to be so embarrassed.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 08:14
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I was watching an analysis on the 2023 progress of the war. The author said that while he acknowledges that Russia seems to have the favour making the war a stalemate and took more strategic, albeit small, locations than Ukraine did; this leads to Catch-22 for Kremlin that the more Ukraine struggles, the more money Ukraine will receive which is not on Russia’s favour.
There’s also the fact that Russia never really seemed to account for most of its monetary and material taps getting turned off. When you’re (ALLEGEDLY) throwing conscripts out there without even a single full magazine of ammo, you’re burning through old post-WWII ammo stocks, and constantly having to beg old SSR states “hey can we buy/borrow some of your tanks and APCs please,” it doesn’t look great.
The trouble is, the material taps haven’t turned off they’ve been rerouted. Apparently enforcing sanctions is hard and more importantly also pisses off your donor base consisting of amoral business types. You can find any number of articles of Ukrainian complaining (even years into the war) that they find western electronics in downed Russian missiles.
cabron_offsets@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 00:53
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Vietnam is a pretty darn poor example for them to be bringing up. A much poorer country fights for its independence against bigger countries with seemingly insurmountable advantages (first France, and then the USA). And by dint of sheer national sacrifice, sustained over 20+ years of fighting, manages to outlast the enemy. Don’t forget also that the Vietnamese started from a vastly poorer and more backward position compared to the Ukrainians.
Also, northern Vietnam had support from greater powers in munitions and training (USSR, China). So, indeed, very analogous situation. Also USSR had its own adventure in Afghanistan. With the same analogy where now US supported … aghmm… Talibans and Al-Qaeda .
Zehzin@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 02:08
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Hey HEY, it wasn’t Al Qaeda it was the people who turned into Al Qaeda, completely different situation there Mr(s)
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 09:50
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Not just Al Qaeda, but Osama bin Laden in specific got direct aid from the U.S.
ganksy@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 01:15
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Oh well I guess we’ll just take our ball and go home then/s. Jokes on you, we freakin live for failure!
Jaysyn@kbin.social
on 22 Apr 2024 01:43
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billiam0202@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 01:44
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The Kremlin warned that American support for Ukraine could turn into a decade-long folly, urging the U.S. to not oppose its invasion of the country as Congress appears set to pass a $60 billion aid package.
Buried lede: Russia thinks its “three-day special military operation to de-nazifyremove US biolabsde-NATO Ukraineresurrect the Soviet Union” could take a decade. 😂
Also, they think they might need a decade to defeat a power that has a fifth of its military size, and which has, so far, roundly managed to make a laughingstock out of much of the Russian military.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 22:58
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Let’s assume Ukraine and all the funding it receives does delay it a decade and Russia eventually wins.
Isn’t that still a resounding success delaying Russia by 10 years and crippling them from the extended war?
It might suck for Ukraine, but from a foreign policy perspective that’s a success
Reddfugee42@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 01:40
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💯💯💯 these fuckers are enlisting prisoners and using 50 year old tanks. Their readiness is supremely fucked RIGHT NOW let alone a year or more from now.
Uhh no it isn’t? What the fuck? The very fact of a war is a foreign policy disaster if you care about the well being of Europe at all. God I hate America sometimes
calcopiritus@lemmy.world
on 24 Apr 2024 06:49
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The war is inevitable. America doesn’t decide if Russia invades Ukraine or not. It can only decide if it will help Ukraine or not.
If america helps Ukraine, they will severely cripple Russia, thus making later invasions unlikely.
I america doesn’t help Ukraine, Russia will just get what they want and move on to invade more countries, leading to more wars.
You can’t just give a flower to the invader, say “peace” and suddenly there are no more wars.
Russian industry produces 500 or 600 new tanks and maybe a little more than a thousand new fighting vehicles every year. The Russian military loses more than a thousand tanks and close to 2,000 fighting vehicles every year—and the loss rate is increasing.
There’s a gap—one the Kremlin fills by pulling out of long-term storage tanks and fighting vehicles dating back to the 1970s, or even the ’60s or ’50s in some cases. But these old vehicles are a finite resource. Built during the Soviet Union’s industrial heyday, they cannot be replaced with new production.
Ominously for the Russians, the most recent projections anticipate that, as early as mid-2025, there won’t be any more old tanks and fighting vehicles left in storage. “Time is running out for Russia,” wrote Artur Rehi, an Estonian soldier and analyst.
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 04:06
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“Time is running out for Russia,” wrote Artur Rehi, an Estonian soldier and analyst.
That’s the phrase we hear for years now. It shouldn’t be taken into consideration. A country of 140mil and 1\4 of land that won’t back off can fight for a very long time until it runs out of resources or people. After two years it sounds like a copium and a reason to just sit and wait, while another country’s clocks are ticking faster.
Jesus_666@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 06:06
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Besides, isn’t China already selling ammo to them? I could very well see China selling vehicles to Russia in large quantities, even on loan – and all it will take is Russia to become even more of a Chinese satellite state.
We tried sitting this out and it didn’t work. Ukraine’s new approach of actively making Russia hurt looks more promising.
Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 06:20
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Russia becoming essentially a Chinese satellite was always how this ended. The question is how much damage is done along the way and how well our nice little international status quo fares in the meantime.
Oddly less scared of China running Russia than I am of Putin running Russia
I guess it's because the Chinese government at least hasn't seemed insane enough to make me seriously ponder if we're about to see nuclear armageddon
Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 20:18
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All other things being equal, there are no benevolent dictators. One more powerful one isn’t an improvement on two weaker ones.
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 06:48
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Not China directly, but Iran and NK as proxies. Some Chinese banks stopped processing russian businesses’ payments since the start of this year. They don’t want to risk their 50% of market in EU and US over merely 3% purchases from Russia, so they themselves started to clean the room.
Well the other option would be a quick NATO operation against the russkis in Ukraine but for some reason no one want to take this route, so were kind of out of options here. I would favor a direct hit against Russia in Ukraine anytime. It would end this war quick, would cause a devastating blow against Putin and I personally think that Russia wouldn’t use any nukes, as they are their life insurance and also their big bluff against the west.
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 06:43
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What that operation would consist of?
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 06:58
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JDAMs, mostly.
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 18:41
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They won’t solve everything, but yeah, they would put a lot of pressure.
It could have different stages depending on the current situation on the battlefield. First could be to secure the airspace over Ukraine, so that we provide air support against rockets, drones, jets and helicopers of the Russians and see what they do next. If they keep the war going the next stage could include the use of JDAM’s or even an armored naval, ground and aerial approach against the russian forcees in the east and south of Ukraine to drive them back to their degenerated motherland.
Last stage would the implementation of a (temporary) defense zone against russia, “peace” and reperations talks and of course the inclusion of Ukraine into the NATO so Russia will think twice about starting this again. Then we will watch what happens in Russia and see if there will be changes for the better so we can try to reestablish our relationships with them. And if not we can keep the sanctions up and let Russia float into insignificance.
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 09:52
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I thought your proposed swift response would be less conventional than continuing the land war but with unlocked NATO DLC. I think it would face even more scrutiny than the fast leader-snatching operation and can cause currently undecided countries step in on russian side.
I thought your proposed swift response would be less conventional than continuing the land war but with unlocked NATO DLC
Well with “unlocked NATO DLC” this operation would be swift one. Russia is barely making progress against Ukraine and loosing a lot of soldiers and equipment, what do you think will happen when a real threat enters the battlefield?
and can cause currently undecided countries step in on russian side.
Why join a loosing party or risk a global crisis if the war is only located in Ukraine and has the only goal of driving the russian forces out of the country. Why would someone join the fray to support the russians when it’s all about ending their degenerate “special operation”? I would agree to you when it’s against Russia itself, but in this case it would only be against the forces of Russia in a land that is not Russia. I don’t see the benefits for China or anybody relevant. Maybe Iran will join, but those dipshits wold join everything that is against the west…
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 18:38
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There’s many of aging dictators around who’d see the fall of russia as being in danger themselves, or seeing NATO being temporally occupied there, thus acting irrationally. No one touches Iran for it’s stable and don’t put much trouble, even Syria is somehow not worthy attention now. And if there’d be a probability of waves of coups or perceived danger of being displaced, NATO risks the need to be deployed here too for it’d hurt way more than whatever these authoritarian regimes do now. It won’t be a symmetric warfare, but random acts of terror and civil wars, imagine Kosovo 2.0. Africa already have some of them, relatively bloodless, some like Houthis or Myanmar never really stopped and can be reignited anew. That’s one of the reasons NATO doesn’t act in full, they perceive this region as a keg of black powder. And they don’t want take responsibility for so much problems at once, as after WW2 when they semi-successfully deprogrammed Germany and Japan via occupation, they had a hard time in Balkans, and recently left Afghanistan for talibs.
Well with “unlocked NATO DLC” this operation would be swift one. Russia is barely making progress against Ukraine and loosing a lot of soldiers and equipment, what do you think will happen when a real threat enters the battlefield?
Total mobilization, zerg rushes until there’s no one to send, heavy losses on the superior army’s part too, and it counts it’s losses more strictly since Nam, a lot of budget spendings relocated towards replenishing stocks that would probably kill some candidates in democratic countries, weird position in terms of what to do with these two countries after the guns stop shooting that’s still far away from today, thus these politicians can sleep at night. You seem to downplay these things. Besides, current Ukrainian and Russian AF practice warfare now, and even without shiny toys, they manage to use cheap tech efficiently, while using the full might of the US MIC, even just one Abrams, is a logistical puzzle and a costy endeavour. Air and water superiority are examples of what none of them can manage, and there NATO can put it’s weight, but in the field those troops who are currently deployed and survived for years are more experienced than whoever NATO can send. They can teach how to use advanced weaponry right, but there weren’t a conflict like than in Europe for a long time.
I’ve seen some lingo in your answers that paints russian threat as a joke, so if you’d want to answer, first, tell me how ukrainians call opposing side’s soldiers, and how russians usually call them back. This two year massacre is a tragedy and I don’t want to talk to someone who sounds like they read to much /k/ another evening. With all due respect.
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 21:40
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you mean 10 years and ongoing…
Talking like it’s even comparable.
In Maydan times there were brigades of russian martial arts goons in Kiyv, there was Berkut working for a kremlin’s tool who then left, there was a FSB support of coups in regions, but there was nothing like this meatgrinder even in the most heated phase. According to statistics, it died off almost completely until the 2022 invasion and that became a routine to civilians who didn’t lurked in a subway underground for days like they did in 2022.
Seriously, it’s just like crying about 8 years of Donbas. You are either ill informed or have an agenda. Ten years narrative is irrelevant to you unless you actually took your part in fighting back then. You try to take the higher moral ground, but you can’t put your facts straight. And you replied without an answer to my questions. It seems like you are from Germany or Austria. So you don’t have any stakes here either way.
Ah there is our comrad, downtalking the murdering uf Ukranians since 10 years now. I don’t care if the scale has increased, Russia is killing Ukranians for 10 years now and this invasion is going on since 10 years now and it just got worse and worse. And you seem to be the one with an “agenda” if I may say so, talking everything down, making Russia greater then it is, using videogame terms for a war…
It seems like you are from Germany or Austria. So you don’t have any stakes here either way.
German with ukraninan origin and an ukraninan father, so I have my stakes in this and I don’t need a someone like you to tell me what stakes I should have, so now be so kind and fuck off.
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Apr 2024 06:02
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Lmao, okay.
FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 02:04
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Not to be a pedant but the US (and UK) armed and trained the mujahideen who largely went on to become the Taliban who oppressed their population and allowed al’qaeda to reside, train and plan attacks from within their borders which ultimately lead to the 9/11 attacks which precipitated a lengthy occupation by allied forces in which many more thousands died, and the eventual withdraw of said forces resulting in the Taliban taking back control, oppressing their population and no doubt once again providing a safe haven for terrorists aligned against the west.
I would say that if Ukraine ends up “like afghanistan” it would be a very bad thing indeed for everyone. Russia, the west, Ukraine. Everyone.
HubertManne@kbin.social
on 22 Apr 2024 11:49
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true. I just found it funny that they would compare that country given they abandoned it do to them being supplied by the US. Agreed though that it bit us. It was where stinger missiles gained fame.
Yeah the irony certainly seems to be lost on them. I guess they just hope everyone had forgotten about how they lost the proxy wars of the cold war era, and are looking for a do-over.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
on 22 Apr 2024 05:56
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Hey Putin, remind me again how many days into your 3-day special military operation you are?
trolololol@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 02:46
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Their progress bar is showing 2000%, big stonks vibe
avater@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 06:05
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funny that the Russkis mention Afghanistan 😅
And as always, as long as the cunts in Russia are complaining and riding their propaganda train at full speed, we are doing something right.
These brainiacs had concerts singing Gruppa Krovi from Kino to recruits early in the war. A literal Afghanistan-era Soviet anti-war anthem. They have no sense of irony.
Gregonar@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 00:25
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Irony is caused by memory. Vodka solves that problem.
kent_eh@lemmy.ca
on 22 Apr 2024 15:10
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Russian government spokespeople say lots of things.
Very few of them are true, or accurate.
CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
on 22 Apr 2024 17:56
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They seem say whatever would be best for them regardless of truth, so you can’t even rule out what they say like if they consistently lied.
Madison420@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 22:34
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Oh it’s a bit dumber than that. Russia tried to occupy Afghanistan in the 1980s and got fuckin romped worse than the US did and that was with peak Russian power and no near endless supply of Russia surplus for insurgents to use.
AMDIsOurLord@lemmy.ml
on 23 Apr 2024 00:25
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USSR went there on the request of their government at the time (unlike America’s rampage invasion) and withdrew after the USA heavily armed extremely backwards Muslim extremists who were doing every war crime in the book
It’s still a better ending than a 20 year war (u lost lmao)
Madison420@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 00:52
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You’re trying to make a point but it’s idiotic since you don’t know my stance on anything, you’re just guessing and poorly at that I might add.
ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 06:45
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“u lost lmao”?
peak burn, right there. 🙄
Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 07:41
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anticolonialist@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 14:36
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Mccarthy wants his Russian paranoia tropes back. Does your internalized homophobia come rising to the surface everytime you hear something you dont like?
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Apr 2024 15:10
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Yeah, my homophobia goes full Russian lmao
anticolonialist@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 16:06
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A cocksucking meme is homophobic. This is why shit libs can never be seen as allies, but obstacles to progress of the marginalized.
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Apr 2024 16:14
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Homophobic? Nah, it’s just an accurate description of your vatnik love for ruzzia
anticolonialist@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 17:12
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Yes, homophobic. Where did I defend Russia? Opposing one isn’t support of the opposite. That only exists in the minds of children.
zenitsu@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Apr 2024 18:11
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Yes, homophobic.
You’re the one assuming cocksucking is derogatory.
Where did I defend Russia?
Anyone repeating kremlin talking points like zelensky “doing coke” is just another kremlin gremlin, whether they know it or not. But it’s hilarious to see vatniks pretend to care about homophobia lmao
TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee
on 23 Apr 2024 11:58
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I’m convinced there’s a concentrated effort coming from somewhere
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
on 23 Apr 2024 12:27
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There’s usually a big spike in “grassroots opposition” to anything supporting ukraine whenever ukraine gets support.
Lemmy was originally created by “communists” who kept getting banned on Reddit). They get a bit riled up whenever something that goes against the interests of their favorite formerly sort of red country happens.
They’re fanatics, zealots. they don’t even need to be paid to shill for these despotic regimes. They do it for free.
They’re just like the far right in the US… useful idiots who huff propaganda
TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee
on 23 Apr 2024 12:32
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The comparison of their style of rhetoric to right wingers in the US makes sense. On the surface it’s hard to tell which group is talking
bradorsomething@ttrpg.network
on 22 Apr 2024 23:16
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If Ukraine makes it through 2025, I wonder if they could take 2-3 oblasts in an eventual peace.
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
on 22 Apr 2024 23:49
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Yeah, Afghanistan was pretty embarrasing for the USSR
AMDIsOurLord@lemmy.ml
on 23 Apr 2024 00:21
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You mean the one where the USA gave a fuckload of material and immaterial aid as much as they could to any radical extremist willing to hold an AK47?
Yeah, I’m going to put the USSR firmly in the “Right side of history” looking back at USA’s shit
It’s a very weird thing for the USA to be proud of
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
on 23 Apr 2024 05:45
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Wait, so you’re saying Russia is going to lose again?
SomethingBurger@jlai.lu
on 23 Apr 2024 06:21
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Don’t feed the .ml.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
on 23 Apr 2024 06:51
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Says the hamburger
SomethingBurger@jlai.lu
on 23 Apr 2024 10:24
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I’m not literally a hamburger. I’m not even American.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
on 23 Apr 2024 15:06
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Hamburgers are German - Hamburg
But it was a joke
TheControlled@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 08:06
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Holy shit. Just wow.
Telodzrum@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 11:16
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Ahh… lemmy.ml users, so predictable, so dumb.
TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee
on 23 Apr 2024 11:51
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Yeah Russia just showed up to plant sunflowers and give everyone candy.
GreenTacklebox@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 23:49
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it doesn’t take much effort to see the standard of living before the usa came.
Justas@sh.itjust.works
on 23 Apr 2024 07:12
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Here’s what stories I remember from USSR-Afghanistan war, told by actual veterans:
They would punish extremist acts by throwing women and children out of a helicopter, Pinochet style. The person who told me that drank ever since he got back from the war and never stopped.
There was one man who left his tent for a midnight leak and came back to his entire tent with their throats slit. Had insane PTSD.
My father-in-law got his legs messed up by machine gun fire, got airlifted to East Germany to get put back together, doesn’t talk much, but still drinks a lot.
mechoman444@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 11:35
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I was just about to say Russia fucked up pretty bad in Afghanistan as well.
GreenTacklebox@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 23:47
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The usa getting involved in Afghanistan is nothing to be proud of. Many War crimes have been committed there by us.
lingh0e@sh.itjust.works
on 24 Apr 2024 05:12
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You could say it was their Vietnam.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world
on 22 Apr 2024 23:52
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He knows all about fiascos in afghanistan
macrocephalic@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 08:55
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The difference is that Vietnam and Afghanistan were civil wars. It’s very difficult to win a war when a sizable portion of the citizens are fighting against you. Ukraine seems to be very united against a common enemy: Russia.
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk
on 23 Apr 2024 13:04
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if anything, even if Russia were to magically take Kyiv tomorrow, they are going to be fighting heavy insurgencies for decades to come. it’ll be the Afghanistan war (the one wot killed the USSR) 2.0 on caffeine.
And they are no where near as economically or militarily strong as they were when the USSR was even at its weakest
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 14:31
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The difference is that Vietnam and Afghanistan were civil wars.
Ukraine seems to be very united against a common enemy
Western Ukraine, sure. But that’s not where Russia’s military is occupying territory.
Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk
on 23 Apr 2024 09:23
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Russia says US support for Ukraine will end as ‘humiliating fiasco’ like ‘Vietnam and Afghanistan’
Of course that Is what Russia says. They were hardly likely to say ‘That’‘s it, game over for us, we’re withdrawing all our troops now.’
Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee
on 23 Apr 2024 14:17
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Because Russia had so much success against Afghanistan themselves. Pretty sure they’ve had their asses handed to them in the far east as well.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 14:29
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Because Russia had so much success against Afghanistan themselves.
Despite nominally being a staunch supporter of George Bush Jr’s War on Terror, Afghanistan was one place Putin absolutely refused to give support. You can call it cowardice or wisdom or simply being once-bitten-twice-shy, but the Graveyard of Empires isn’t the place you send in troops casually.
Pretty sure they’ve had their asses handed to them in the far east as well.
Do you mean the Russo-Japan War? That was over a century ago.
Russian military leadership is well-blooded and one of the only institutions that wasn’t gutted by Perestroika. The folks who were laughing up their sleeves at the “Oversized Gas Station” when the Ukraine fight started may have underestimated the monster that was unleashed.
skozzii@lemmy.ca
on 23 Apr 2024 14:38
nextcollapse
P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N.
MehBlah@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 15:21
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Russia did so well in Afghanistan after the US supplied the afghans with weapons and training.
mycathas9lives@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 18:39
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It would be nice to see the US launch a full assault on the soviets. FULL ON. I can dream can’t I?
GreenTacklebox@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 23:46
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slow down there hitler
GreenTacklebox@lemmy.world
on 23 Apr 2024 23:45
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Russia’s right. From us supporting the nazis in Israel and Ukraine and stamping out anti-genocide protests at home nothing good can be in store for the USA in the future.
EDIT: It’s sad that the userbase here is just as insane as the world news userbase over on reddit.
threaded - newest
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Kremlin warned that American support for Ukraine could turn into a decade-long folly, urging the U.S. to not oppose its invasion of the country as Congress appears set to pass a $60 billion aid package.
The aid deal comes after months of negotiations, with support for Ukraine wavering among American conservatives as the Russian military gains ground after two years of fighting.
The House passed a broad foreign aid spending bill on Saturday that includes funds for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan for a total of $95 billion.
“With the boost that would come from military assistance‚ both practically and psychologically — Ukrainians are entirely capable of holding their own through 2024 and puncturing Putin’s arrogant view that time is on his side,” Burns said Thursday.
“Without supplemental assistance, this picture is a lot more dire, and there is a very real risk that the Ukrainians could lose on the battlefield by the end of 2024,” he continued.
The U.S. and NATO allies have refused to send their own troops to Ukraine, the fundamental difference between the conflict and those in Vietnam and Afghanistan.
The original article contains 295 words, the summary contains 183 words. Saved 38%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
The question is, which time Afganistan, when Russia had to get out or the US?
Was about to say, at least the US withdrawing from Afghanistan isn’t literally a cause of the entire country collapsing into 14 smaller new states and also the entire western bloc
Tbf it kinda is, because if the US had gone into Afghanistan with a plan to help Afghani’s fix infrastructure, homes, trade routes, etc things would have turned out far better than they did.
Again, which time?
I can't wait to hear what Habitual Linecrosser has to say about this.
Really?
Last I checked, we haven’t had almost 500k casualties and lost billions in military craft to old mothballed weapons we since moved on from.
exactly the fuckers say like usa is fighting there lol
At the risk of being jingoistic, this type of opponent is exactly what our military is designed to utterly destroy. If the US was an active participant it would have very quickly wiped the floor with the Russian army and would be dealng with Russian backed insurgents in the east.
Ukraine has been beating them with the stuff we routinely throw away (when the Republicans don’t get in the way), I am convinced they have no non nuclear answer to our actual military.
40 years ago maybe, but afaik after 20 years of Iraq and Afghanistan the us army has shifted quite far into focusing on counterinsurgency and away from fighting vs mass armor and artillery
The USA has plans, thousands of plans and how to modify them agains the russians (well the USSR), and that’s as important as having the right tools/weapons.
I mean, they’ve gotten way better at it, but most of their equipment and doctrine are still targeted at utterly destroying a near peer level threat. The f-22 wasn’t designed to fight insurgents, nor is it suited to that task.
I would think that the USAF would happily establish and easily enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine and could probably pull it off within a few days of getting the order conservatively.
There was the story a few years ago when a well equipped and trained Wagner battalion “accidentally” picked a flight with a US army unit or base in Syria and got immediately demolished.
Writing this out definitely feels like braggadocio and it likely is. But I would think the Russians don’t want to find out why we don’t have universal healthcare first hand.
It’s actually kinda incredible for Russia to have not realized that the US is literally just letting Ukraine integrate itself into NATO standards by training on and building up NATO standard equipment as it runs out of the shitty Soviet era alternatives
Meanwhile Moscow is instead developing a dependency on Iranian and Chinese made military hardware, stuff that neither is especially willing to part with given their own war plans.
The US could 1000% just barely provide enough aid to tactically let Russia chew its teeth out trying to break Ukraine, but it’s sending what Ukraine needs to win whenever it can because the US sees Ukraine winning as more important than Russia losing at this point.
Not just Ukraine, either! All the NATO Eastern Bloc countries donated their Soviet equipment (and much more) and are actively rearming and retraining their own militaries on NATO standard equipment.
Unfortunately “barely enough” is closer to the mark. Ukraine should’ve had this funding last year and we should’ve been close to the next round at this point. If this is actually all America can muster when it is committed to “winning” then then thats a bit sad and scary considering the incompetent broke ass country we are trying to beat while having homecourt advantage.
The only thing that gives me solace is the thought that this is carefully architected to bleed out Russia and not actually a show of real force.
You have to remember that half of the political parties in the US are owned by and promote Russian interests. That’s the only reason it took 8 months to get this funding approved, and it was approved in spite of the former fuckwit president.
If only they had oil, they’d be a
free countryneo-colony of Biden a long time agoThey have enormous amounts of natural gas dipshit.
That’s Russia, I meant Ukraine would be free if they had oil
Shit head
The Black Sea Ukrainian Shelf was discovered in 2012 to contain an estimated 2 trillion cubic meters of natural gas. Access to a huge portion of it depends on Crimea which was annexed in 2014.
Excellent point. Due to the equipment Ukraine now has the west is at a point where they will stand to lose a lot of valuable technology if Russia wins making it necessary for western intervention if things go bad for Ukraine.
Seems a little high. Russian casualties are probably closer to 350k according to Western estimates.
I wonder how many died though (edit: Ukraine claims 180k but their casualty estimates are reportedly high, so probably less than 180k dead)
By contrast, the United States lost fewer than 2,500 service members in the entire 20 years we were in Afghanistan.
Russia says a lot of things. Very few are true.
Well, they are essentially gambling on war fatigue. Putin seems to have no problem throwing more meat at the problem, that’s what they’ve always done
They only have so much meat before the populous collapses.
Russia has more meat than Ukraine, so lets hope Ukraine runs through Russia like a grinder
when russia does the invade i believe that. but now ukraine have to break through heavily fortified occupied territories. idk how ukraine can manage with current donations and if they still have enough manpower. ukraine also suffers heavy casualty
Well the us finally pushed through funding and ukraines strategy has been to take opportunities with very heigh kd ratios. Its doable and when its a right for ur nation that’s all ya need
There are a lot of Russians, and nobody dies quite like them
“Die for your tsar and receive no glory for you are nothing but animals” - every Russian leader ever
Coming from a World War Champ like Russia… 😬
Not the threat he thinks it is.
What do you mean? There are only a handful of countries that were on the winning side of both World Wars and both the US and Russia are among them
Let’s count the deaths and reevaluate what it means to win.
The eastern front was vicious, the western front wasn’t. Hardly a fair comparison.
Lots of Russians died in WWII, yes (actually just realizing I don’t know anything about the breakdown of casualties or deaths in WWI). But if you count the number of casualties inflicted I imagine it would scale with losses experienced. Except for the USA, since we kinda cheated with the whole Hiroshima and Nagasaki thing
In WWII, Russia had about 1 gun to every 5 soldiers.
They literally had dudes running the lines without guns, and their battle plan was to pick up dead comrades weapons.
Russia has absolutely no war cred. Win or lose. they’re a laughing stock, every time.
How about that time they lost hundreds of soldiers to a single Finnish Sniper. They thought “The White Death” was a whole fucking army, it was a fucking local farmer.
Russians are absolute legendary goobers on the battlefield, historically. And this Ukraine war is no different. Sending confused untrained teenagers to the front lines to abandon tanks. Classic Russia.
Like jfc. Ls on Ls on Ls.
The Soviets did not send soldiers to battle without weapons. That is a myth. They fought like hell in WW2 and finishing that is stupid.
Russia made it through WWII solely because of US aid.
That aid is now flowing into Ukraine.
Russian Federation =/= USSR
Russia lost in WWI before it ended, they were essentially knocked out of the war before the revolution and Bolsheviks made the official.
I mean he’s kinda right if we don’t just commit to fully helping Ukraine instead of waffling with every budget, bill, and election.
But him saying that is a good way to motivate stubborn Americans, so he can keep on saying it. It’ll get us going.
It makes sense.
How does it make sense? There aren’t any Americans fighting in Ukraine. And Russia are the ones that said they’d win in two weeks.
In terms of military support, America reduces their support for Ukraine because they need to support Israel more. Now just about time, they need more resources to fight Iran.
The U.S. house just passed a series of bills where over $60 billion is going to Ukraine aid and $24 billion is going to Israel.
You sure about that?
America reduced their support to ukraine because republicans control the house
Ukraine wants the help. Afghanistan didn’t. Also, the Soviet Union did a similar thing in Afghanistan.
Afghani’s did want the help. They just didn’t want someone else telling them what they should do … again.
Yeah, remember when we told them NOT to make apostasy from Islam illegal?
Oh, wait, we didn’t even bother doing that much.
The War in Afghanistan didn’t fail because we were Big Bad Westerners Imposing Our Way Of Life, it failed because neither the Coalition nor the post-Ahmad Shah Massoud anti-Taliban forces had anything resembling a united direction they could agree on leading the country in. Post-2003 the Coalition plan was “Don’t fail” (Don’t fail at what? Now you’re asking questions that should have been fucking asked); the post-Ahmad Shah Massoud anti-Taliban forces’ plan was “Every warlord for himself”.
Turns out absolute shitheads (the Taliban) with a definite plan can overcome a squabbling mass of decent people (everyday Afghanis), opportunists (contractors et co), and shitheads (hi brutal but pro-national government warlords) who are all at odds with each other.
I always know someone doesn’t know anything about Afghanistan and its people when they refer to them as Afghani’s.
An Afghan is a person. Afghani is a currency. Anyone who calls them Afghani doesn’t even know the right term to call the people. It is a giveaway to how little you know about them when you don’t even know what to call them.
Meanwhile all the Chineses and Viet Congs are turning in their graves right next to the Afgani.
Russian officials publicly assure the world that their invasion will only last 1 week due to their overwhelming military superiority.
109 weeks later without a victory, losing twice as many soldiers and equipment, Russian officials swear that the US, not an active combatant, is going to be so embarrassed.
I was watching an analysis on the 2023 progress of the war. The author said that while he acknowledges that Russia seems to have the favour making the war a stalemate and took more strategic, albeit small, locations than Ukraine did; this leads to Catch-22 for Kremlin that the more Ukraine struggles, the more money Ukraine will receive which is not on Russia’s favour.
There’s also the fact that Russia never really seemed to account for most of its monetary and material taps getting turned off. When you’re (ALLEGEDLY) throwing conscripts out there without even a single full magazine of ammo, you’re burning through old post-WWII ammo stocks, and constantly having to beg old SSR states “hey can we buy/borrow some of your tanks and APCs please,” it doesn’t look great.
The trouble is, the material taps haven’t turned off they’ve been rerouted. Apparently enforcing sanctions is hard and more importantly also pisses off your donor base consisting of amoral business types. You can find any number of articles of Ukrainian complaining (even years into the war) that they find western electronics in downed Russian missiles.
Bruh.
Vietnam is a pretty darn poor example for them to be bringing up. A much poorer country fights for its independence against bigger countries with seemingly insurmountable advantages (first France, and then the USA). And by dint of sheer national sacrifice, sustained over 20+ years of fighting, manages to outlast the enemy. Don’t forget also that the Vietnamese started from a vastly poorer and more backward position compared to the Ukrainians.
Also, northern Vietnam had support from greater powers in munitions and training (USSR, China). So, indeed, very analogous situation. Also USSR had its own adventure in Afghanistan. With the same analogy where now US supported … aghmm… Talibans and Al-Qaeda .
Hey HEY, it wasn’t Al Qaeda it was the people who turned into Al Qaeda, completely different situation there Mr(s)
Not just Al Qaeda, but Osama bin Laden in specific got direct aid from the U.S.
Oh well I guess we’ll just take our ball and go home then/s. Jokes on you, we freakin live for failure!
Ruzzia knows all about humiliating fiascoes.
Especially in Afghanistan.
Just like the British. Also especially like Afghanistan.
Maybe great powers should leave Afghanistan the fuck alone.
I think you are correct.
Buried lede: Russia thinks its “three-day special military operation to
de-nazifyremove US biolabsde-NATO Ukraineresurrect the Soviet Union” could take a decade. 😂Also, they think they might need a decade to defeat a power that has a fifth of its military size, and which has, so far, roundly managed to make a laughingstock out of much of the Russian military.
Let’s assume Ukraine and all the funding it receives does delay it a decade and Russia eventually wins.
Isn’t that still a resounding success delaying Russia by 10 years and crippling them from the extended war?
It might suck for Ukraine, but from a foreign policy perspective that’s a success
💯💯💯 these fuckers are enlisting prisoners and using 50 year old tanks. Their readiness is supremely fucked RIGHT NOW let alone a year or more from now.
Any victory, if ever, will be phyrric at best.
Uhh no it isn’t? What the fuck? The very fact of a war is a foreign policy disaster if you care about the well being of Europe at all. God I hate America sometimes
The war is inevitable. America doesn’t decide if Russia invades Ukraine or not. It can only decide if it will help Ukraine or not.
If america helps Ukraine, they will severely cripple Russia, thus making later invasions unlikely.
I america doesn’t help Ukraine, Russia will just get what they want and move on to invade more countries, leading to more wars.
You can’t just give a flower to the invader, say “peace” and suddenly there are no more wars.
If I were to bet, it would be that the US can keep this up for a decade more-readily than you can.
I don’t think that this is going to keep going for a decade, though.
forbes.com/…/the-clock-is-ticking-russia-has-a-on…
That’s the phrase we hear for years now. It shouldn’t be taken into consideration. A country of 140mil and 1\4 of land that won’t back off can fight for a very long time until it runs out of resources or people. After two years it sounds like a copium and a reason to just sit and wait, while another country’s clocks are ticking faster.
Besides, isn’t China already selling ammo to them? I could very well see China selling vehicles to Russia in large quantities, even on loan – and all it will take is Russia to become even more of a Chinese satellite state.
We tried sitting this out and it didn’t work. Ukraine’s new approach of actively making Russia hurt looks more promising.
Russia becoming essentially a Chinese satellite was always how this ended. The question is how much damage is done along the way and how well our nice little international status quo fares in the meantime.
Oddly less scared of China running Russia than I am of Putin running Russia
I guess it's because the Chinese government at least hasn't seemed insane enough to make me seriously ponder if we're about to see nuclear armageddon
All other things being equal, there are no benevolent dictators. One more powerful one isn’t an improvement on two weaker ones.
Not China directly, but Iran and NK as proxies. Some Chinese banks stopped processing russian businesses’ payments since the start of this year. They don’t want to risk their 50% of market in EU and US over merely 3% purchases from Russia, so they themselves started to clean the room.
Well the other option would be a quick NATO operation against the russkis in Ukraine but for some reason no one want to take this route, so were kind of out of options here. I would favor a direct hit against Russia in Ukraine anytime. It would end this war quick, would cause a devastating blow against Putin and I personally think that Russia wouldn’t use any nukes, as they are their life insurance and also their big bluff against the west.
What that operation would consist of?
JDAMs, mostly.
They won’t solve everything, but yeah, they would put a lot of pressure.
It could have different stages depending on the current situation on the battlefield. First could be to secure the airspace over Ukraine, so that we provide air support against rockets, drones, jets and helicopers of the Russians and see what they do next. If they keep the war going the next stage could include the use of JDAM’s or even an armored naval, ground and aerial approach against the russian forcees in the east and south of Ukraine to drive them back to their degenerated motherland.
Last stage would the implementation of a (temporary) defense zone against russia, “peace” and reperations talks and of course the inclusion of Ukraine into the NATO so Russia will think twice about starting this again. Then we will watch what happens in Russia and see if there will be changes for the better so we can try to reestablish our relationships with them. And if not we can keep the sanctions up and let Russia float into insignificance.
I thought your proposed swift response would be less conventional than continuing the land war but with unlocked NATO DLC. I think it would face even more scrutiny than the fast leader-snatching operation and can cause currently undecided countries step in on russian side.
Well with “unlocked NATO DLC” this operation would be swift one. Russia is barely making progress against Ukraine and loosing a lot of soldiers and equipment, what do you think will happen when a real threat enters the battlefield?
Why join a loosing party or risk a global crisis if the war is only located in Ukraine and has the only goal of driving the russian forces out of the country. Why would someone join the fray to support the russians when it’s all about ending their degenerate “special operation”? I would agree to you when it’s against Russia itself, but in this case it would only be against the forces of Russia in a land that is not Russia. I don’t see the benefits for China or anybody relevant. Maybe Iran will join, but those dipshits wold join everything that is against the west…
There’s many of aging dictators around who’d see the fall of russia as being in danger themselves, or seeing NATO being temporally occupied there, thus acting irrationally. No one touches Iran for it’s stable and don’t put much trouble, even Syria is somehow not worthy attention now. And if there’d be a probability of waves of coups or perceived danger of being displaced, NATO risks the need to be deployed here too for it’d hurt way more than whatever these authoritarian regimes do now. It won’t be a symmetric warfare, but random acts of terror and civil wars, imagine Kosovo 2.0. Africa already have some of them, relatively bloodless, some like Houthis or Myanmar never really stopped and can be reignited anew. That’s one of the reasons NATO doesn’t act in full, they perceive this region as a keg of black powder. And they don’t want take responsibility for so much problems at once, as after WW2 when they semi-successfully deprogrammed Germany and Japan via occupation, they had a hard time in Balkans, and recently left Afghanistan for talibs.
Total mobilization, zerg rushes until there’s no one to send, heavy losses on the superior army’s part too, and it counts it’s losses more strictly since Nam, a lot of budget spendings relocated towards replenishing stocks that would probably kill some candidates in democratic countries, weird position in terms of what to do with these two countries after the guns stop shooting that’s still far away from today, thus these politicians can sleep at night. You seem to downplay these things. Besides, current Ukrainian and Russian AF practice warfare now, and even without shiny toys, they manage to use cheap tech efficiently, while using the full might of the US MIC, even just one Abrams, is a logistical puzzle and a costy endeavour. Air and water superiority are examples of what none of them can manage, and there NATO can put it’s weight, but in the field those troops who are currently deployed and survived for years are more experienced than whoever NATO can send. They can teach how to use advanced weaponry right, but there weren’t a conflict like than in Europe for a long time.
I’ve seen some lingo in your answers that paints russian threat as a joke, so if you’d want to answer, first, tell me how ukrainians call opposing side’s soldiers, and how russians usually call them back. This two year massacre is a tragedy and I don’t want to talk to someone who sounds like they read to much /k/ another evening. With all due respect.
you mean 10 years and ongoing…
Talking like it’s even comparable.
In Maydan times there were brigades of russian martial arts goons in Kiyv, there was Berkut working for a kremlin’s tool who then left, there was a FSB support of coups in regions, but there was nothing like this meatgrinder even in the most heated phase. According to statistics, it died off almost completely until the 2022 invasion and that became a routine to civilians who didn’t lurked in a subway underground for days like they did in 2022.
Seriously, it’s just like crying about 8 years of Donbas. You are either ill informed or have an agenda. Ten years narrative is irrelevant to you unless you actually took your part in fighting back then. You try to take the higher moral ground, but you can’t put your facts straight. And you replied without an answer to my questions. It seems like you are from Germany or Austria. So you don’t have any stakes here either way.
Ah there is our comrad, downtalking the murdering uf Ukranians since 10 years now. I don’t care if the scale has increased, Russia is killing Ukranians for 10 years now and this invasion is going on since 10 years now and it just got worse and worse. And you seem to be the one with an “agenda” if I may say so, talking everything down, making Russia greater then it is, using videogame terms for a war…
German with ukraninan origin and an ukraninan father, so I have my stakes in this and I don’t need a someone like you to tell me what stakes I should have, so now be so kind and fuck off.
Lmao, okay.
Russia lost in Afghanistan so, cool!
Nobody knows more about humiliating fiascos in Afghanistan than Russia.
so us support for ukraine will end up like when the us supported afghanistan. awesome.
Not to be a pedant but the US (and UK) armed and trained the mujahideen who largely went on to become the Taliban who oppressed their population and allowed al’qaeda to reside, train and plan attacks from within their borders which ultimately lead to the 9/11 attacks which precipitated a lengthy occupation by allied forces in which many more thousands died, and the eventual withdraw of said forces resulting in the Taliban taking back control, oppressing their population and no doubt once again providing a safe haven for terrorists aligned against the west.
I would say that if Ukraine ends up “like afghanistan” it would be a very bad thing indeed for everyone. Russia, the west, Ukraine. Everyone.
true. I just found it funny that they would compare that country given they abandoned it do to them being supplied by the US. Agreed though that it bit us. It was where stinger missiles gained fame.
Yeah the irony certainly seems to be lost on them. I guess they just hope everyone had forgotten about how they lost the proxy wars of the cold war era, and are looking for a do-over.
Hey Putin, remind me again how many days into your 3-day special military operation you are?
Their progress bar is showing 2000%, big stonks vibe
funny that the Russkis mention Afghanistan 😅
And as always, as long as the cunts in Russia are complaining and riding their propaganda train at full speed, we are doing something right.
These brainiacs had concerts singing Gruppa Krovi from Kino to recruits early in the war. A literal Afghanistan-era Soviet anti-war anthem. They have no sense of irony.
Irony is caused by memory. Vodka solves that problem.
Russian government spokespeople say lots of things.
Very few of them are true, or accurate.
They seem say whatever would be best for them regardless of truth, so you can’t even rule out what they say like if they consistently lied.
Oh it’s a bit dumber than that. Russia tried to occupy Afghanistan in the 1980s and got fuckin romped worse than the US did and that was with peak Russian power and no near endless supply of Russia surplus for insurgents to use.
USSR went there on the request of their government at the time (unlike America’s rampage invasion) and withdrew after the USA heavily armed extremely backwards Muslim extremists who were doing every war crime in the book
It’s still a better ending than a 20 year war (u lost lmao)
You’re trying to make a point but it’s idiotic since you don’t know my stance on anything, you’re just guessing and poorly at that I might add.
“u lost lmao”?
peak burn, right there. 🙄
Damn so close.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f73a0a50-3ca0-4efe-b383-6a3d69e56cd2.png">
Lmaoooo
it doesn’t take much effort to pick up a history book. You shold try it sometime.
Maybe they’re saying Zelensky will make another 9/11 like Osama did after we supported him in Afghanistan?
e: ya’ll ever hear the old addage “don’t downvote the messenger”? go and downvote putin or something.
They are not wrong, in typical US style they will just declare its done and leave Ukraine in enormous debt and left to fend for itself
Thanks for outing yourself!
Seriously!
God, the people here are the worst.
The block feature has slowly made my experience here a hell of a lot better. These threads tend to give me new fodder for it
Hey, it’s you… from that other thread when you were spewing the same kremlin talking points
“anticolonialist”
<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/967ae009-bc70-4e14-9127-419d0e803cc4.jpeg">
Mccarthy wants his Russian paranoia tropes back. Does your internalized homophobia come rising to the surface everytime you hear something you dont like?
Yeah, my homophobia goes full Russian lmao
A cocksucking meme is homophobic. This is why shit libs can never be seen as allies, but obstacles to progress of the marginalized.
Homophobic? Nah, it’s just an accurate description of your vatnik love for ruzzia
Yes, homophobic. Where did I defend Russia? Opposing one isn’t support of the opposite. That only exists in the minds of children.
You’re the one assuming cocksucking is derogatory.
Anyone repeating kremlin talking points like zelensky “doing coke” is just another kremlin gremlin, whether they know it or not. But it’s hilarious to see vatniks pretend to care about homophobia lmao
I’m convinced there’s a concentrated effort coming from somewhere
There’s usually a big spike in “grassroots opposition” to anything supporting ukraine whenever ukraine gets support.
Lemmy was originally created by “communists” who kept getting banned on Reddit). They get a bit riled up whenever something that goes against the interests of their favorite formerly sort of red country happens.
They’re fanatics, zealots. they don’t even need to be paid to shill for these despotic regimes. They do it for free.
They’re just like the far right in the US… useful idiots who huff propaganda
The comparison of their style of rhetoric to right wingers in the US makes sense. On the surface it’s hard to tell which group is talking
If Ukraine makes it through 2025, I wonder if they could take 2-3 oblasts in an eventual peace.
Yeah, Afghanistan was pretty embarrasing for the USSR
You mean the one where the USA gave a fuckload of material and immaterial aid as much as they could to any radical extremist willing to hold an AK47?
Yeah, I’m going to put the USSR firmly in the “Right side of history” looking back at USA’s shit
It’s a very weird thing for the USA to be proud of
Wait, so you’re saying Russia is going to lose again?
Don’t feed the .ml.
Says the hamburger
I’m not literally a hamburger. I’m not even American.
Hamburgers are German - Hamburg
But it was a joke
Holy shit. Just wow.
Ahh… lemmy.ml users, so predictable, so dumb.
Yeah Russia just showed up to plant sunflowers and give everyone candy.
it doesn’t take much effort to see the standard of living before the usa came.
Here’s what stories I remember from USSR-Afghanistan war, told by actual veterans:
They would punish extremist acts by throwing women and children out of a helicopter, Pinochet style. The person who told me that drank ever since he got back from the war and never stopped.
There was one man who left his tent for a midnight leak and came back to his entire tent with their throats slit. Had insane PTSD.
My father-in-law got his legs messed up by machine gun fire, got airlifted to East Germany to get put back together, doesn’t talk much, but still drinks a lot.
I was just about to say Russia fucked up pretty bad in Afghanistan as well.
The usa getting involved in Afghanistan is nothing to be proud of. Many War crimes have been committed there by us.
You could say it was their Vietnam.
He knows all about fiascos in afghanistan
The difference is that Vietnam and Afghanistan were civil wars. It’s very difficult to win a war when a sizable portion of the citizens are fighting against you. Ukraine seems to be very united against a common enemy: Russia.
if anything, even if Russia were to magically take Kyiv tomorrow, they are going to be fighting heavy insurgencies for decades to come. it’ll be the Afghanistan war (the one wot killed the USSR) 2.0 on caffeine.
And they are no where near as economically or militarily strong as they were when the USSR was even at its weakest
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
A civil war that’s been ongoing since 2014.
Western Ukraine, sure. But that’s not where Russia’s military is occupying territory.
Of course that Is what Russia says. They were hardly likely to say ‘That’‘s it, game over for us, we’re withdrawing all our troops now.’
Because Russia had so much success against Afghanistan themselves. Pretty sure they’ve had their asses handed to them in the far east as well.
Despite nominally being a staunch supporter of George Bush Jr’s War on Terror, Afghanistan was one place Putin absolutely refused to give support. You can call it cowardice or wisdom or simply being once-bitten-twice-shy, but the Graveyard of Empires isn’t the place you send in troops casually.
Do you mean the Russo-Japan War? That was over a century ago.
With the exception of the First Chechen War, The Post-'91 Russian Federation’s record on the battlefield has generally been successful.
Russian military leadership is well-blooded and one of the only institutions that wasn’t gutted by Perestroika. The folks who were laughing up their sleeves at the “Oversized Gas Station” when the Ukraine fight started may have underestimated the monster that was unleashed.
Ah Afghanistan. Where empires go to die
P-R-O-J-E-C-T-I-O-N.
Russia did so well in Afghanistan after the US supplied the afghans with weapons and training.
It would be nice to see the US launch a full assault on the soviets. FULL ON. I can dream can’t I?
slow down there hitler
Russia’s right. From us supporting the nazis in Israel and Ukraine and stamping out anti-genocide protests at home nothing good can be in store for the USA in the future. EDIT: It’s sad that the userbase here is just as insane as the world news userbase over on reddit.