Russia just accidentally admitted to its staggering troop losses in Ukraine (kyivindependent.com)
from Hubi@feddit.org to world@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 13:48
https://feddit.org/post/14445096

#world

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ThePantser@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 14:35 next collapse

Here’s to a million more.

<img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/52af0969-5ec7-45bb-ab34-76b6ecb63f83.gif">

markko@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 15:18 collapse

They don’t all want to be there…

ThePantser@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 15:55 collapse

Then don’t sign up. 🤷 Article says they are being given incentives to sign up.

Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 15:59 next collapse

Desperate people do desperate things

manxu@piefed.social on 19 Jun 16:25 next collapse

The amount of money they get for signing on is so staggeringly huge, it is one of the drivers of the high inflation they are having.

Bashnagdul@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 17:31 next collapse

Which means the money they get is less and less valuable the more people sign up.

rammer@sopuli.xyz on 20 Jun 12:35 collapse

The amount of money they are told they get for signing…

Some of it goes to corrupt commanders and various middle men.

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 15:29 collapse

Finally a trickle down economy that works!

EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com on 19 Jun 17:48 next collapse

I was under the impression that many were outright forced to fight, as opposed to signing up.

Maalus@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 00:50 collapse

Nope, by law Russia cannot use conscripts outside their own borders. All of them signed a contract to be there.

EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com on 20 Jun 01:03 next collapse

Learn something new every day

Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub on 20 Jun 16:09 next collapse

Russia also has the warped idea that Ukraine is part of Russia and they’re reclaiming it, so who really knows whether any law is being honored.

jaxxed@lemmy.ml on 20 Jun 17:08 collapse

Legally true, but there is of course plenty of coersion.

markko@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 18:35 next collapse

This spring marks the highest rate of military conscription that Russia has seen in 14 years. In late March, Russian President Vladimir Putin issued a decree ordering 160,000 men aged 18 to 30 to be called up.

According to Ukraine’s Eastern Human Rights Group (EHRG), at least 300 people from the occupied territories were conscripted into the Russian army in fall 2024

“After their training, many conscripts are sent to the front upon signing a contract with the Russian army,” Lysianskyi says. This decision is sometimes voluntary, but often made under duress due to a lack of alternatives, he adds.

www.dw.com/en/…/a-72289013

Russian authorities continue to conscript Ukrainian civilians in occupied areas or otherwise try to forcibly enlist them, including those in detention, into the Russian military

hrw.org/…/russia-forces-ukrainians-occupied-areas…

“She explained that it was in a military camp, and that I would be like a caretaker with tasks like cleaning and cooking…”

But once in Russia, Samuel was in for a surprise. Instead of cooking utensils and cleaning products, he was given a Kalashnikov – which he accepted very reluctantly.

Samuel found himself in uniform without knowing exactly who he was fighting for, or in which unit. “The contracts they made us sign are doctored. We don’t have a copy of the document, so we don’t get the salary we were supposed to. Apparently, the Russian commander who made us sign gets part of it back, so it’s a whole chain.”

rfi.fr/…/20250117-african-troops-forced-to-ukrain…

laranis@lemmy.zip on 19 Jun 21:11 collapse

If they’re lying about the casualty rate then even rational people aren’t given the facts to make intelligent decisions.

I’d bet if they were told the truth no amount of incentive would get them to sign up.

wise_pancake@lemmy.ca on 19 Jun 14:38 next collapse

War is basically all logistics and the value Ukraine is getting out of their drone program is insane

pennomi@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 15:01 next collapse

Honestly when they’re done, that manufacturing capacity will do great things for their economy.

rockerface@lemm.ee on 19 Jun 15:05 next collapse

God knows we’ll need every little bit to rebuild

Balaquina@lemmy.ca on 19 Jun 16:11 next collapse

The second it is safe, the second the war is over, I’m coming over and spending tourism dollars over there.

victorz@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:57 next collapse

Love you. Greetings from elsewhere in Europe.

Blackmist@feddit.uk on 20 Jun 16:51 collapse

They’ll need it because the war money will stop immediately. They’re being funded only as much as it hurts Russia. Just like Afghanistan in the 80s.

JigglySackles@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 14:54 collapse

Slava Ukraine. Be safe if you can. Wish I could do more to help. I tried to do some things with the digital forces but there isn’t much left I can do that you all need.

PotatoLibre@feddit.it on 19 Jun 15:31 next collapse

It’s what many says, Europe needs Ukraine for many reasons and a big one is (sadly), their knowledge about a mordern war.

ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 16:42 next collapse

Did they get that knowledge from 9 soldiers, one of which carries a cursed burden?

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 16:20 collapse

“We need people from this big war to fight the next big war!” is the line of thinking that’s going to burn everything to the ground, just like it did a century ago.

Between Ukraine/Russia, Israel/Iran, Britain floating warships off the coast of China, Indian and Pakistan firing on one another, North Africa in a decade long bloodbath, the US sending marines to suppress unrest in local cities… its not good folks.

PotatoLibre@feddit.it on 20 Jun 18:39 collapse

Europe has not been aggresive at all. Being ready doesn’t mean you want to go to war.

Many are against reaming Europe, thinking weapon = war, but it’s not that simple. Nuke are scaring as hell, but we haven’t had such a long period of peace before nuke came.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 18:53 collapse

Europe has not been aggresive at all.

France is no stranger to military intervention in Africa. Indeed, a cornerstone of Françafrique, France’s sphere of influence over its former colonies in sub-Saharan Africa, was France’s permanent military presence on the continent. Since decolonization in 1960, the French military has intervened over fifty times in Africa. These interventions have ranged from brief counter-insurgency missions and evacuations to longer-term peacekeeping operations. While France would scale back the scope of its operations in Africa following it’s failure to stop the 1994 Rwandan genocide, it nevertheless maintained a force of 5,500 troops on the continent.

Over Fifty Times.

barsoap@lemm.ee on 20 Jun 19:46 next collapse

Pray tell, how many times without explicit invitation/request by local government?

Because last I checked when the Sahel states wanted them gone they packed up and left. And then things went to shit quite quickly: In some areas Wagner has an even worse reputation among the civilian population than Jihadis (now that is an achievement), and figures because Wagner is not there to fix anything but to make money by “protecting” natural resources they don’t care much about fighting the Jihadis, either. France never shied away from throwing down with them, where they were reluctant is stomping Tuaregs, instead opting for endless negotiations and mediating. Which is perfectly sensible because the Tuareg are sane, they want stuff like autonomy within their regions, not massacre people.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 11:35 collapse

Because last I checked when the Sahel states wanted them gone they packed up and left.

Check again.

Operation Barkhane dragged on for eight years. It sparked domestic protests within the first two years. By the end, the Sahel states were in full revolt against French occupation.

France never shied away from throwing down with them, where they were reluctant is stomping Tuaregs, instead opting for endless negotiations and mediating.

The problem is with your language. You seem to think dropping 200 lb bombs on a city to wipe whole neighborhoods off the map constitutes “throwing down”, like its a bar room brawl everyone will walk away from in the morning. You don’t seem to want to acknowledge that they killed thousands of civilians. A 9/11s worth of people, to put it in a parlance you might appreciate.

And much like in Israel and the US occupation of Iraq/Afghanistan, the response from French allies was always “those civilians had it coming”.

That is what spurred widespread opposition to Françafrique policy.

barsoap@lemm.ee on 21 Jun 14:13 collapse

By the end, the Sahel states were in full revolt against French occupation.

There a) was no occupation and b) not even the Putschists were in “full revolt”.

You seem to think dropping 200 lb bombs on a city to wipe whole neighborhoods off the map constitutes “throwing down”

You seem to be talking about the Russian main forces (which aren’t in the Sahel), not France. Heck, Americans, but again, not France. France drops training ammunition instead of actual bombs on Hilluxes and when Americans make fun of them (“they ran out of ammo”) the French shrug and say “Concrete slabs are perfectly sufficient for pickup trucks”. It’s baked into their core doctrine, they supply their troops with what is necessary, but not more, because they want them to be audacious.

Are you referring to the Bounti airstrike? Like in you strg+f “controversial” and found something? Then just assumed the 200lb and “whole neighbourhoods”? This is Bounti.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 14:19 collapse

There a) was no occupation

The French Defense Minister Florence Parly announced in February 2020 that France would send an additional 600 troops to the Sahel region, bolstering Operation Barkhanes’ force to 5,100 troops.

b) not even the Putschists were in “full revolt”.

More and more voices are being raised against the presence of the French soldiers of Operation Barkhane, despite the lack of alternatives.

You’re either deeply misinformed or deliberately lying.

barsoap@lemm.ee on 21 Jun 14:48 collapse

And… where’s the revolt? Did you read your source? Did you even check the date? What it said about the opinion of the Mali military?

As said: The French left once uninvited by the government. Who are Putschists but meh that’s usual down there, and not likely to change without a prolonged period of stability. I do expect another Putsch to come in soonish as they’re not getting things handled either, as said Wagner is often worse than the Jihadis, and on top of that Russia is way overextended as it is. Won’t take long until they can’t supply their goons down there.

Did you, btw, read up on Russia’s media campaign down there. The French are arrogant, no doubt, but that’s different from wanting to rule the area or wishing it ill. What you can legitimately blame them for is a disinterest in building up those states, training their militaries, enable them to secure their own territory on their own. Russia saw an opening for its actually colonial ambitions and went for it.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 16:13 collapse

The French are arrogant, no doubt, but that’s different from wanting to rule the area or wishing it ill.

Explain it to the 2700+ dead that the French are responsible for.

barsoap@lemm.ee on 21 Jun 16:28 collapse

Don’t be a Jihadi? Don’t try to force your way onto others trying to establish a Caliphate? Are you seriously taking the side of Al fucking Qaeda here.

How do you explain Wagner’s actions to the survivors of Moura. “Don’t be a civilian?”

Detainees were subjected to torture and other ill-treatment during questioning, and dozens of women and girls were raped or subjected to other forms of sexual violence, the report claims. In one instance, soldiers brought bedding from a house, placed it under trees in the garden, and took turns raping women they had forced there.

And that’s just the tip of the iceberg, most of the atrocities don’t get investigated at all due to the fucked-up overall situation. It’s all Wagner MO though.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 16:31 collapse

Don’t be a Jihadi?

There it is. Everyone’s guilty once you’ve flung shrapnel through their chest.

But you still can’t imagine why the French-aligned government got ousted in a coup on these terms.

barsoap@lemm.ee on 21 Jun 16:45 collapse

What were the residents of Moura guilty of? Answer.

Jihadis came in, enforced their perverse interpretation of Islam, Sharia courts, dress codes, the lot. Then Wagner+Mali army came, first stomped the Jihadis, then Wagner moved on to rape the locals. Mali army looked on for a while, then stepped in and said “Ok Russians, that’s enough, stop it”, and it stopped.

That doesn’t happen with French forces, you don’t have to tell French forces to stop torturing and raping the local civilians, and they also won’t tell you that it’s a valuable strategy of war. And that’s why there’s going to be another putsch because as fucked-up as the Mali military is they’re not inherently cruel. They just have no idea of how to achieve stability, and were dissatisfied by the progress of the French – but seeing the Russians, yep, the French are very much preferable. Or ask Nigeria for help instead. China if you can convince them, that’d certainly be interesting. Anyone, but not Russia.

Because you know what? You don’t win the hearts and minds of the people if your reputation is even worse than that of the Jihadis. Say what you want about Al Qaeda but they’re not as bad as ISIS or Wagner, they do have a sense of decency. A very twisted one, but it exists.

PotatoLibre@feddit.it on 21 Jun 11:23 collapse

Good god, I’m talking about today, and I’m confronting EU against Russia, USA or China.

barneypiccolo@lemm.ee on 19 Jun 16:56 next collapse

Then they can become the world’s supplier of battle-tested drones.

Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 15:37 next collapse

Do they manufacture them in Ukraine? I always assumed they got them for elsewhere.

pennomi@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 15:50 next collapse
el_bhm@lemm.ee on 20 Jun 15:56 next collapse

Given the volume they quote each year they either have sourcing figured out or produce at least some of the parts internally. Keep in mind, in FPV drones a lot of the tech is not some cutting edge stuff.

Some of the strikes at the residential complexes can be targeted attacks at distributed micro factories.

barsoap@lemm.ee on 20 Jun 19:39 collapse

Very much so, though they import lots of parts. Generally speaking the Ukrainian defence industry is operating under capacity because cashflow.

Ukraine builds rockets and the biggest airplanes in the world and has a vibrant IT sector, they can manage drones. Much of the Soviet high-tech design and manufacturing was Ukrainian, that’s one of the reasons why Russia wants its colony back.

ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jun 16:36 collapse

The shareholders will benefit greatly from more war.

NikkiDimes@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 19:48 collapse

Never let a good tragedy go to waste.

SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 21:01 collapse

And when enlistment keeps dropping like a rock they will give the suicide drones to our local PDs! :D

Lyra_Lycan@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 19 Jun 15:44 next collapse

I like to call it (Soviet) Star Wars: the Drone Wars (star for clarity)

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/96f917bc-6cff-491e-9395-7d7edf06880d.webp">

krimson@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:06 next collapse

Ukraine playing it smart and understanding how modern warfare is done. Russia only throwing in more and more soldiers.

real_squids@sopuli.xyz on 19 Jun 16:32 next collapse

It works though, that’s why they keep doing it. It’s slow as hell and inhumane, but they can afford it for many more years I’d wager. Their capabilities of data gathering/transmission are much better these days as well. Also don’t forget they set up wired drone production (in serious numbers at least) first, they can be smart at times.

Underestimating them irl is pointless.

wise_pancake@lemmy.ca on 19 Jun 16:48 next collapse

In Russia’s defence, who could have possibly have thought that invading Ukraine in the winter wasn’t going to be a simple 3 day weekend kind of thing?

Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jun 17:22 next collapse

If they assassinated Zelensky like they had planned, it probably would have been.

wise_pancake@lemmy.ca on 20 Jun 18:18 collapse

That feels like a big contingency that they failed to adequately plan for

Plus wouldn’t the armed forces still fight?

Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jun 19:02 collapse

They would have fought, but they would have been demoralized.

They also would have likely been replaced by a Russian sympathizer or asset and the US/West would be very wary to send all sorts of expensive weapon systems to Ukraine.

wise_pancake@lemmy.ca on 20 Jun 20:12 collapse

All good points, thanks for expanding my understanding

PlexSheep@infosec.pub on 21 Jun 17:14 collapse

Losing a generation in war that could have added much value to their economy can’t really be smart or worth it, can it?

UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 19:45 collapse

Pulling a Napoleon when he went to Russia. Too cocky

AlexLost@lemm.ee on 20 Jun 21:45 collapse

A man fighting for his home is worth 100 fighting for someone else’s cause. Russia was never going to win the numbers game.

DontAskAboutUpdog@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 07:02 collapse

I read that as a man fighting for his drone…

PotatoLibre@feddit.it on 19 Jun 14:43 next collapse

Russia it was already a mess before but considering their median age, after a 1mln loss they’re as good as fucked.

Putin doesn’t care about his country, but Russians then?

real_squids@sopuli.xyz on 19 Jun 16:36 next collapse

They don’t care either. The majority, that is, there are some good apples who left the bunch

barsoap@lemm.ee on 20 Jun 19:51 collapse

Tho’ it is hard – the earthly load,
The Cart is easy in its move,
The reckless couch-time, on road,
Will not get of his bench above.

In early morn we take our places;
We glad to break our empty head,
And leaving leisure for the races,
We cry, “Go on, you idler, damned!”

At noon, our bravery’s diminished;
We have been tossed and more afraid
Of slopes, steep, and ravines, peevish,
And cry, “Be easier, you, brat!”

The cart rolls in the former fashion,
By evening, we have used to it,
Wait for night lodgings, doze, patient, –
And Time tends horses to full speed.

– Pushkin, “The cart of life”, translated by Yevgeny Bonver

tl;dr it doesn’t really matter the cart keeps on racing until it crashes. And then they Slav it back up and it keeps on racing. Nobody knows who or what the fuck actually holds the reigns. Also that “go on, you ildler, damned” does not give the profanity used in the original credit. Like, not even close. English isn’t capable of it.

someguy3@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 14:58 next collapse

Kelin was then asked about Russian army recruitment.

“I’m not a specialist in this area, but as I understand it we have 50-60,000 a month, those volunteers who are coming, recruiting, posting, and they would like to get engaged in this thing (in Ukraine),” he replied.

He did not explain why the size of the Russian army fighting in Ukraine has gone down despite what would amount to around 250,000 extra troops being recruited and sent to the front since the beginning of the year.

From I figure, basically by giving recruitment numbers and total numbers in Ukraine, the West can calculate number of casualties, which the West figures is 1 million. Remember casualties includes injured.

SkyezOpen@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:08 collapse

Ukraine has been keeping a tally of Russian losses since pretty early on, and it’s been pretty much perfectly accurate.

MolecularCactus1324@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:55 next collapse

I fall asleep at night watching Russian soldiers get droned. Helps me sleep well.

barneypiccolo@lemm.ee on 19 Jun 17:11 next collapse

For context, the America lost about 55,000 soldiers in the Vietnam War, which lasted about 10-12 years. Russian has already lost at least 600,000 in a couple of years.

IttihadChe@lemmy.ml on 19 Jun 19:20 next collapse

The article does not say that there have been 600k casualties. It says there are 600k fighting in Ukraine.

Where did you get “already lost at least 600,000”?

thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works on 20 Jun 00:59 collapse

I agree that the 600K figure is a mis-read of the article; however:

According to figures from Ukraine's General Staff, Russia has lost 217,440 troops since Jan. 1, 2025.

The discrepancy tallies with Western analysis of Russia's staggering losses.

"They lose somewhere in the ballpark of 35,000 to 45,000 people per month, and perhaps they recruit a little bit north of that number," George Barros, Russia team lead at the Institute for the Study of War (ISW), told the Kyiv Independent earlier this month.

I am generally inclined to believe Ukraine’s official figures of over 1 million dead, injured or captured Russian soldiers so far in this “3 day special military operation”.

Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Jun 15:42 collapse

Holy shit. Over 1k people killed every day? How the hell do you maintain any kind of morale?

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 16:22 next collapse

You don’t. You have lots of conscription to supplant your front lines. You do all sorts of corruption in the middle-ranks of the military, so junior officers can generate income off the desperation of their greener soldiers. You create an industry around the war, such that everyone hates it but someone is always profiting off the misery of others.

And then the machine grinds on.

InternetCitizen2@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 18:53 next collapse

Blocker units aren’t there for fun.

IhaveCrabs111@lemmy.world on 20 Jun 21:56 collapse

Talk about Gaza instead

Anonymaus@feddit.org on 19 Jun 20:09 collapse

Its says 600,000 dead, wounded or missing in action and also usa wasnt the only one at war with north vietnam, they had help from their puppet south vietnam

Spacehooks@reddthat.com on 19 Jun 17:25 next collapse

Reminds of of that scene in tiberian sun when NOD installs the new AI

EVA: “Casualties rates unacceptable, this course of action -”

Anton: “stop, Activate the reprogramming”

EVA:“Casualty rates well within acceptable parameters”

I get the feeling they take ww2 loses before they even notice.

seven_phone@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 18:12 next collapse

It alludes to the staggering number in the title and in the abstract but does not give the number which means it’s clickbait.

Hubi@feddit.org on 19 Jun 18:46 collapse

The discrepancy tallies with Western analysis of Russia’s staggering losses. “They lose somewhere in the ballpark of 35,000 to 45,000 people per month, and perhaps they recruit a little bit north of that number,” George Barros, Russia team lead at the Institute for the Study of War (ISW), told the Kyiv Independent earlier this month.

Mavytan@feddit.nl on 20 Jun 22:30 next collapse

So there’s a stable inflow and outflow. I wonder what fractions are dead, wounded (disabled permanently), wounded (temporary), and retired (back to civilian life in one form or another, likely traumatized).

Alternatively, Russia is building up a massive army outside of Ukraine. That seems unlikely though, there’s no news about that, I’ll discard that hypothesis for now.

macaw_dean_settle@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 01:37 next collapse

What a fucking waste.

TheDeadlySquid@lemm.ee on 21 Jun 13:02 next collapse

Maybe they should pull out of the region entirely.

some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org on 21 Jun 14:07 collapse

I keep reading about how Russia’s economy is on the brink of collapse just like how I keep reading about how Trump’s voters are turning on him. I believe that both are (somewhat) true, but I don’t think anything will come from either one.