Hey, Israel has every right to defend themselves from starving children lined up for food. You must be one of those antisemitic people I’ve been hearing about.
/s
givesomefucks@lemmy.world
on 29 Feb 2024 18:49
nextcollapse
Dont worry guys, Biden said we’ll have a ceasefire by this weekend, and obviously he’s not just incredibly out of touch with no idea what reality is like…
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
on 29 Feb 2024 19:19
nextcollapse
Dont worry guys, Biden said we’ll have a ceasefire by this weekend, and obviously he’s not just incredibly out of touch with no idea what reality is like…
Yeah don’t worry about the fact that he vetoed a UN resolution calling for a ceasefire 10 days ago.
Its our fault for bringing forwards this criticism. Guys don’t you understand that if we show Biden how weak he is, we might get Trump who will also uh… support a genocide of the Palestinian people. We need to support Biden no matter what, no questions asked, no criticisms allowed.
Obv, /s, but who are we kidding, there won’t be a Palestinian people in Palestine by November.
wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Feb 2024 19:27
nextcollapse
It’s ok guys. They forgot to condemn Hamas while they were starving and seeking refuge so it’s ok.
wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Feb 2024 19:29
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You see, the food was Kkkhhhhaaamas.
cogman@lemmy.world
on 29 Feb 2024 19:23
nextcollapse
Look at all these human shields… shielding the food and medical aid. Guess we better mow them down.
ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world
on 29 Feb 2024 21:07
nextcollapse
Occupy Israel
foofiepie@lemmy.world
on 29 Feb 2024 23:29
nextcollapse
Ok flame away, as clearly I’m going to be downvoted to oblivion or banned, but:
I read just now on the BBC that most of the casualties were due not to gunfire, as all the posts suggest, but to the aid Lorries driving over people in what seems like scenes of chaos and probable panic… and this is from a news outlet that leans to the left.
I’m not pro Hamas or IDF but I feel like (deserved or not), if what the Beeb say is true, then we’re allowing ourselves to get carried away here.
foofiepie@lemmy.world
on 29 Feb 2024 23:35
nextcollapse
Have you seen much of Jeremy Bowen at all?
In the UK zeitgeist, it’s at least relatively left wing.
Edit: on this specific topic. Not the Toryshambles.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 11:12
nextcollapse
When you’re supporting a far right authoritarian genocide…
Pretty much everything “leans left” compared to your own views…
Aceticon@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 13:31
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I’ve lived in the UK.
The BBC themselves have some years ago published a study by Nottingham University that showed that the BBC favored whatever party was in Government an the time.
The UK Government is currently in the hands of the Brexit faction of the Tories, who are Far-Right populists.
Anybody who thinks the BBC is Left has to be so far to the Right that they’re Fascists of the worse kind, which kinda makes sense given that such people are the ones justifying the actions of the Genocidal Fascist Government of Israel.
HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
on 29 Feb 2024 23:37
nextcollapse
Came here with similar response. Ill join you in the downvotes.
Democracynow.org is horrific for half stories and bias. I went through Al Jazeera and a few points.
Israel did open fire on the civilians. Their response and reasoning is that the trucks were being swarmed and the drivers who did kill some by being run over were Hamas drivers. People were likely killed in stampead prior to opening fire, and in the ensuring panic afterwards.
Hamas is claiming they were deliberate shots at chest level.
the fog of war in this conflict is horrible, and its exponentially worse because of propaganda, poor reporting and uneducated masses having a voice.
foofiepie@lemmy.world
on 29 Feb 2024 23:43
nextcollapse
It all just horrible, any which way you slice it. Gut wrenching.
I don’t doubt for a second the IDF have a shitload to answer for, but the propaganda machine is polarising people into a flat rejection of measured discourse, as usual.
Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
on 01 Mar 2024 04:51
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You should try the Olympics. Those mental gymnastics are crazy.
HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 05:50
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Im curious what you thought I was justifying with my mental gymnastics.
I have no doubt that individuals from both sides have committed war crime/crimes against humanity, and those members should swing.
Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
on 01 Mar 2024 06:29
nextcollapse
I don’t understand how you manage to bring both sides whenever israel does something. I read the article and I’m quite confused about your statement. People do not need to understand what is a war crime or a genocide. When they see something bad, they react to it. Get used to it. You were complaining about the masses having a voice in an earlier comment, idk what to say. The problem is not “certain individuals” doing bad things but systematic oppression happening for 75 years. You can also call it apartheid. It won’t be solved by “swinging” some people.
Edit: After looking at your comment history it’s clear you have an obsession with hanging people on “public ropes” and that you also think it’s legal to carpet bomb civilians. I guess all those smart words you use are only to hide yourself. This is the end of my conversation.
People do not need to understand what is a war crime or a genocide.
Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
on 01 Mar 2024 07:34
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Why are you acting like you understand it? How do I link comments in lemmy. You were justifying carpet bombing with “legality” and then ended the sentence with ‘both sides should swing ropes’ to balance it out. What a troll.
Lmao this guy is a known troll. I saw your comment in the “china speaks against israel” post lol. lemm.ee/comment/9520119
If you getting downvoted so much, maybe take a step back and re evaluate your takes lemm.ee/comment/9265091 but if you qant botted updoots go to reddit.
From a browser there’s a link icon (two interlocking shackles) that creates a link. From mobile, I use an app so I have to open the post through my browser first
I don’t think I ever posted what you said though, but please prove me wrong
Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
on 01 Mar 2024 08:20
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I didn’t find it. Your comments are filled with downvotes so it’s hard to find the specific one but here are some to prove that you are an israeli zionist troll, most probably part of IDF propaganda.
You openly say UN definition of genocide is erong and made up your own one and talking about people understanding it. By your definition, nazis didn’t commit a genocide either cause if they did there wouldn’t be israel or any jews. Re-evaluate yout takes and stop acting like you are intellectually superior.
tldr: lemming went through my entire post history but could not back up his clear accussations
rambaroo@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 08:34
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BoTh SiDeS give me a fucking break
radicalautonomy@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 01:41
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…so the guys driving the fucking aid trucks were Hamas? And Hamas was purposefully using the aid trucks to run over its own people? So Israel started firing at the drivers of the aid trucks but miraculously missed every shot, and them gunning down dozens of civilians was an oopsie?
You believe that? Cuz that’s really fucking stupid.
You know why there was a mob of people? Because there is no food in Gaza. At all. People are subsisting on grains used for animal food, anything with calories. People are desperate when they are starving to death. And Israel, the fucking monsters, engineered this situation by only letting a couple trucks here and there trickle in while hundreds of aid trucks wait at the border, unallowed to enter.
HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 01:47
nextcollapse
Not quite - you are also confusing what one side said the other was.
The very early days, brief timeline
aid trucks went in. Israel says drivers were Hamas.
aid trucks were swarmed, people killed in the crush.
Israel opened fire to protect trucks, Hamas claimed shots fired deliberately at chest level.
people killed in panic stampede, people run over by panicked truck drivers, I haven’t seen any comments that people were killed by gunfire (haven’t seen, not saying it didn’t happen.
i will also ignore any references from MEE or Democracynow, along with any blatantly supporting Israel or Gaza without balance.
nonailsleft@lemm.ee
on 01 Mar 2024 04:37
nextcollapse
Can you point us to a source for “Israel says drivers were Hamas”?
(As they were escorting the convoy, it seems unlikely to me that they were allowing the trucks to be driven by the armed wing of Hamas. Perhaps the unarmed administrative part or Egyptians sounds much more realistic)
HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 05:47
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I cant find the direct link - it was the breaking news link in Al Jazeera around 6 hours ago that has now been changed as news develops. I also suspect that statement has since been recanted as none of their new stories mention it, nor does the improvethenews.org story.
I doubt Israel was escorting it, but with Hamas stealing aid supplies for the war effort I also wouldn’t be surprised (opinion only, don’t take that as fact). I also doubt that Hamas armed forces were driving, but Hamas is also the Palestine government so could be technically correct if they were government workers???
nonailsleft@lemm.ee
on 01 Mar 2024 06:46
nextcollapse
Times of Israel article has them as ‘private contractors’, Egyptian drivers seem the most logical
I can’t see where Al Jazeera came up with that claim then
HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 20:00
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It may sound like I’m supporting Israel in this thread, but I’m supporting balanced arguements and anti propaganda. I would trust Times of Israel to be as biased as MEE or Democracynow (that is incredibly biased and half the story).
nonailsleft@lemm.ee
on 01 Mar 2024 20:50
nextcollapse
Sure, they’re a sockpuppet for Israel. But still, their claim sounds a lot more plausible than AJ suggesting ‘Hamas’ was driving
If you say anything other than what the hivemind is saying- you’re always going to be accused of being “anti-something.”
I once tried telling people that Biden is not physically committing genocide anywhere and that Israel isn’t enabled entirely as a result of Biden and would be doing it with or without his involvement- and was harassed for hours over it.
They seriously think that Biden is the mastermind of the whole operation.
renedescartes@literature.cafe
on 01 Mar 2024 08:48
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nonailsleft@lemm.ee
on 01 Mar 2024 04:52
nextcollapse
What I’m reading Israel is saying:
They did not fire on the civilians (around the trucks)
Their tanks fired warning shots to disperse the crowd (implying aimed away from the civilians)
Nothing about the drivers being Hamas (as in: if they were escorted there, I don’t think they would consider the drivers a threat, as that’s what’s being suggested by this wording)
A nearby incident (how near? Probably very near) where civilians came towards their checkpoint, didn’t stop after warning shots, and then they started shooting to kill
HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 05:37
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Do you have a link to the article you read? I went through the Al Jazeera one and it didn’t mention this.
It’s impossible to argue with manufactured outrage. They already ate and digested the rhetoric and nothing will change their minds.
[SEE BELOW]
underisk@lemmy.ml
on 01 Mar 2024 00:35
nextcollapse
If someone opens fire at people in a crowded building and causes a crowd crush that kills dozens of people, do you blame the crowd or the dude who started mowing people down? Israel murdered those people by creating that situation regardless of the precise circumstances of their deaths.
HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 01:52
nextcollapse
If people swarm a stadium killing hundreds in their panic do you blame the people who crushed them or the police who intervened?
There is still a timeline to work through, and the full story will take time.
WanderingVentra@lemm.ee
on 01 Mar 2024 07:00
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Let’s start with why were all these people starving and desperate for aid?
Threeme2189@sh.itjust.works
on 01 Mar 2024 08:12
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Easy. Hamas…
HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
on 01 Mar 2024 20:02
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Because their ruling government decided to fuck around, with support from foreign states, and now innocent civilians have to find out.
WanderingVentra@lemm.ee
on 02 Mar 2024 05:59
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Lie about what? Nothing in the article contradicts what I’ve said. Even if you buy the bit about Israel firing “warning shots” after the panic had already started, they still created this entire situation to begin with. They starved those people then tossed in some scraps and shot at them when they reacted pretty much exactly how any rational person would expect. It doesn’t fucking matter if most of the bodies don’t have IDF bullets lodged in them. They killed them all the same.
Above, you arrive at the suggestion that if the IDF was firing off warning shots, this could have set off a panic/stampede through the crowd and the trucks driving. but this would still mean that the IDF was largely responsible through this chain of events. Which I certainly agree with.
But the article says something completely different. It suggests the IDF waited for these victims to gather around the aid trucks and says they then opened fire on them. With artillery, drone missiles and gunfire. It mentions nothing about people being trampled or run over by trucks.
You don’t see a little bit of contradiction there?
My dude I’m not arriving at any conclusion about what specifically happened. I saying even the most favorable interpretation toward Israel is damning. It doesn’t matter when or how they shot into the crowd, the only reason a starving crowd on the edge of panic existed in the first place is because Israel created it. That, for me, is enough to lay all the deaths at their feet regardless of whether they were shot, trampled, or run over.
If you’re concerned that I might be taking Israel at their word for some reason, let me assure you: I do not buy their version of events for even a second.
And in so many more ways than that. There was a crush of people trying to “loot” food because they were starving. Which was also caused by Israel. If aid trucks were regularly coming into Gaza, they wouldn’t be dealing with desperate people when they got through.
nonailsleft@lemm.ee
on 01 Mar 2024 04:55
nextcollapse
Well tbf you’re not supposed to want to find out about the details of these headlines
Just upvote downvote along with the flow, maybe post something about how horrible things are, and wait for the next one
It’s wild how you read that article and just take the Israeli claim as truth when they’re contradicted by others right there in the article:
All or most of the casualties being treated at two other hospitals, Kamal Adwan and al-Awda, were said by officials there to have bullet or shrapnel wounds.
I didn’t take any of them as truth, because we don’t know. We do know Israel lies, frequently and blatantly, so believing them over other sources is dumb.
Well it’s actually because I read the context that made me jump in to ask the question
That poster also said
if what the Beeb say is true, then
And linked an article that has different angles on these killings. I didn’t see any suggestion where he said any of the cited sources were right or wrong
The Beeb didn’t say “most of the casualties were due no to gunfire”. They didn’t say any particular side was true. The OP just chose one side and ignored the other. They’re not trusting BBC, I don’t think any of us think the BBC is making up quotes, they’re selecting trusting a specific source among multiple relayed by BBC.
threaded - newest
Definitely not genocide /s
Hey, Israel has every right to defend themselves from starving children lined up for food. You must be one of those antisemitic people I’ve been hearing about.
/s
Dont worry guys, Biden said we’ll have a ceasefire by this weekend, and obviously he’s not just incredibly out of touch with no idea what reality is like…
Yeah don’t worry about the fact that he vetoed a UN resolution calling for a ceasefire 10 days ago.
Its our fault for bringing forwards this criticism. Guys don’t you understand that if we show Biden how weak he is, we might get Trump who will also uh… support a genocide of the Palestinian people. We need to support Biden no matter what, no questions asked, no criticisms allowed.
Obv, /s, but who are we kidding, there won’t be a Palestinian people in Palestine by November.
Yeah that’s what a Trump supporter would say. You’re just mad cause your guy is loosing! (/s)
Never let facts get in the way of a good brow-beating.
It increases political pressure on Israel, which does matter. What did vetoing it achieve?
On the off chance that they do have some shred of real power, I would prefer they use it to try and end the genocide, rather than ignore it.
I don’t care if it works or not I still want them to do it. I will take futile benevolence over callous apathy any day.
Don’t worry, the US will just politely ask the Israelis to stop acting like Nazis.
What is quite amazing is that so much of US foreign policy is based on presenting strength.
They do this while being absolutely cucked by the Israelis on the world stage.
But he must finish his ice cream first.
It’s ok guys. They forgot to condemn Hamas while they were starving and seeking refuge so it’s ok.
You see, the food was Kkkhhhhaaamas.
Look at all these human shields… shielding the food and medical aid. Guess we better mow them down.
Occupy Israel
Ok flame away, as clearly I’m going to be downvoted to oblivion or banned, but:
I read just now on the BBC that most of the casualties were due not to gunfire, as all the posts suggest, but to the aid Lorries driving over people in what seems like scenes of chaos and probable panic… and this is from a news outlet that leans to the left.
I’m not pro Hamas or IDF but I feel like (deserved or not), if what the Beeb say is true, then we’re allowing ourselves to get carried away here.
Israel-Gaza war: More than 100 reported killed in crowd near Gaza aid convoy, Hamas-run health ministry says
The Beeb.
Leans Left.
Uh…
Have you seen much of Jeremy Bowen at all?
In the UK zeitgeist, it’s at least relatively left wing.
Edit: on this specific topic. Not the Toryshambles.
When you’re supporting a far right authoritarian genocide…
Pretty much everything “leans left” compared to your own views…
I’ve lived in the UK.
The BBC themselves have some years ago published a study by Nottingham University that showed that the BBC favored whatever party was in Government an the time.
The UK Government is currently in the hands of the Brexit faction of the Tories, who are Far-Right populists.
Anybody who thinks the BBC is Left has to be so far to the Right that they’re Fascists of the worse kind, which kinda makes sense given that such people are the ones justifying the actions of the Genocidal Fascist Government of Israel.
Came here with similar response. Ill join you in the downvotes.
Democracynow.org is horrific for half stories and bias. I went through Al Jazeera and a few points.
Israel did open fire on the civilians. Their response and reasoning is that the trucks were being swarmed and the drivers who did kill some by being run over were Hamas drivers. People were likely killed in stampead prior to opening fire, and in the ensuring panic afterwards.
Hamas is claiming they were deliberate shots at chest level.
the fog of war in this conflict is horrible, and its exponentially worse because of propaganda, poor reporting and uneducated masses having a voice.
It all just horrible, any which way you slice it. Gut wrenching.
I don’t doubt for a second the IDF have a shitload to answer for, but the propaganda machine is polarising people into a flat rejection of measured discourse, as usual.
You should try the Olympics. Those mental gymnastics are crazy.
Im curious what you thought I was justifying with my mental gymnastics.
I have no doubt that individuals from both sides have committed war crime/crimes against humanity, and those members should swing.
I don’t understand how you manage to bring both sides whenever israel does something. I read the article and I’m quite confused about your statement. People do not need to understand what is a war crime or a genocide. When they see something bad, they react to it. Get used to it. You were complaining about the masses having a voice in an earlier comment, idk what to say. The problem is not “certain individuals” doing bad things but systematic oppression happening for 75 years. You can also call it apartheid. It won’t be solved by “swinging” some people.
Edit: After looking at your comment history it’s clear you have an obsession with hanging people on “public ropes” and that you also think it’s legal to carpet bomb civilians. I guess all those smart words you use are only to hide yourself. This is the end of my conversation.
Why are you acting like you understand it? How do I link comments in lemmy. You were justifying carpet bombing with “legality” and then ended the sentence with ‘both sides should swing ropes’ to balance it out. What a troll.
Lmao this guy is a known troll. I saw your comment in the “china speaks against israel” post lol. lemm.ee/comment/9520119
If you getting downvoted so much, maybe take a step back and re evaluate your takes lemm.ee/comment/9265091 but if you qant botted updoots go to reddit.
From a browser there’s a link icon (two interlocking shackles) that creates a link. From mobile, I use an app so I have to open the post through my browser first
I don’t think I ever posted what you said though, but please prove me wrong
I didn’t find it. Your comments are filled with downvotes so it’s hard to find the specific one but here are some to prove that you are an israeli zionist troll, most probably part of IDF propaganda.
lemm.ee/comment/5583079 lemm.ee/comment/5467524 lemm.ee/comment/5268781 lemm.ee/comment/9098956 lemm.ee/comment/5875832
You openly say UN definition of genocide is erong and made up your own one and talking about people understanding it. By your definition, nazis didn’t commit a genocide either cause if they did there wouldn’t be israel or any jews. Re-evaluate yout takes and stop acting like you are intellectually superior.
Blocked :)
tldr: lemming went through my entire post history but could not back up his clear accussations
BoTh SiDeS give me a fucking break
…so the guys driving the fucking aid trucks were Hamas? And Hamas was purposefully using the aid trucks to run over its own people? So Israel started firing at the drivers of the aid trucks but miraculously missed every shot, and them gunning down dozens of civilians was an oopsie?
You believe that? Cuz that’s really fucking stupid.
You know why there was a mob of people? Because there is no food in Gaza. At all. People are subsisting on grains used for animal food, anything with calories. People are desperate when they are starving to death. And Israel, the fucking monsters, engineered this situation by only letting a couple trucks here and there trickle in while hundreds of aid trucks wait at the border, unallowed to enter.
Not quite - you are also confusing what one side said the other was.
The very early days, brief timeline
aid trucks went in. Israel says drivers were Hamas.
aid trucks were swarmed, people killed in the crush.
Israel opened fire to protect trucks, Hamas claimed shots fired deliberately at chest level.
people killed in panic stampede, people run over by panicked truck drivers, I haven’t seen any comments that people were killed by gunfire (haven’t seen, not saying it didn’t happen.
i will also ignore any references from MEE or Democracynow, along with any blatantly supporting Israel or Gaza without balance.
Can you point us to a source for “Israel says drivers were Hamas”?
(As they were escorting the convoy, it seems unlikely to me that they were allowing the trucks to be driven by the armed wing of Hamas. Perhaps the unarmed administrative part or Egyptians sounds much more realistic)
I cant find the direct link - it was the breaking news link in Al Jazeera around 6 hours ago that has now been changed as news develops. I also suspect that statement has since been recanted as none of their new stories mention it, nor does the improvethenews.org story.
I doubt Israel was escorting it, but with Hamas stealing aid supplies for the war effort I also wouldn’t be surprised (opinion only, don’t take that as fact). I also doubt that Hamas armed forces were driving, but Hamas is also the Palestine government so could be technically correct if they were government workers???
Times of Israel article has them as ‘private contractors’, Egyptian drivers seem the most logical
I can’t see where Al Jazeera came up with that claim then
It may sound like I’m supporting Israel in this thread, but I’m supporting balanced arguements and anti propaganda. I would trust Times of Israel to be as biased as MEE or Democracynow (that is incredibly biased and half the story).
Sure, they’re a sockpuppet for Israel. But still, their claim sounds a lot more plausible than AJ suggesting ‘Hamas’ was driving
If you say anything other than what the hivemind is saying- you’re always going to be accused of being “anti-something.”
I once tried telling people that Biden is not physically committing genocide anywhere and that Israel isn’t enabled entirely as a result of Biden and would be doing it with or without his involvement- and was harassed for hours over it.
They seriously think that Biden is the mastermind of the whole operation.
Doubt is the origin of wisdom.
You’re a rare breed man. Thanks for staying true to the facts, regardless of the results of them. Non-bias is impossible to find nowadays.
youtu.be/rTrMBI5fvfA
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/rTrMBI5fvfA
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
What I’m reading Israel is saying:
They did not fire on the civilians (around the trucks)
Their tanks fired warning shots to disperse the crowd (implying aimed away from the civilians)
Nothing about the drivers being Hamas (as in: if they were escorted there, I don’t think they would consider the drivers a threat, as that’s what’s being suggested by this wording)
A nearby incident (how near? Probably very near) where civilians came towards their checkpoint, didn’t stop after warning shots, and then they started shooting to kill
Do you have a link to the article you read? I went through the Al Jazeera one and it didn’t mention this.
It’s at the start of this comment thread we’re both replying to
It’s impossible to argue with manufactured outrage. They already ate and digested the rhetoric and nothing will change their minds.
[SEE BELOW]
If someone opens fire at people in a crowded building and causes a crowd crush that kills dozens of people, do you blame the crowd or the dude who started mowing people down? Israel murdered those people by creating that situation regardless of the precise circumstances of their deaths.
If people swarm a stadium killing hundreds in their panic do you blame the people who crushed them or the police who intervened?
There is still a timeline to work through, and the full story will take time.
Let’s start with why were all these people starving and desperate for aid?
Easy. Hamas…
Because their ruling government decided to fuck around, with support from foreign states, and now innocent civilians have to find out.
Not quite…
And it goes back awhile.
Your claim that this started with the IDF firing into the crowd around the trucks is exactly what’s being discussed here
could you explain to me how the anxious, starving crowd of people trying to reach aid “started” it?
Are you suggesting an anxious crowd couldn’t have started trampling eachother or couldn’t have caused the drivers to panic?
Are you suggesting that an anxious crowd devolving into a panic is improved by the addition of weapons fire?
If that is what happened, why would the article in the OP lie about it?
Why would you brush off these lies as unimportant?
Lie about what? Nothing in the article contradicts what I’ve said. Even if you buy the bit about Israel firing “warning shots” after the panic had already started, they still created this entire situation to begin with. They starved those people then tossed in some scraps and shot at them when they reacted pretty much exactly how any rational person would expect. It doesn’t fucking matter if most of the bodies don’t have IDF bullets lodged in them. They killed them all the same.
Above, you arrive at the suggestion that if the IDF was firing off warning shots, this could have set off a panic/stampede through the crowd and the trucks driving. but this would still mean that the IDF was largely responsible through this chain of events. Which I certainly agree with.
But the article says something completely different. It suggests the IDF waited for these victims to gather around the aid trucks and says they then opened fire on them. With artillery, drone missiles and gunfire. It mentions nothing about people being trampled or run over by trucks.
You don’t see a little bit of contradiction there?
My dude I’m not arriving at any conclusion about what specifically happened. I saying even the most favorable interpretation toward Israel is damning. It doesn’t matter when or how they shot into the crowd, the only reason a starving crowd on the edge of panic existed in the first place is because Israel created it. That, for me, is enough to lay all the deaths at their feet regardless of whether they were shot, trampled, or run over.
If you’re concerned that I might be taking Israel at their word for some reason, let me assure you: I do not buy their version of events for even a second.
And in so many more ways than that. There was a crush of people trying to “loot” food because they were starving. Which was also caused by Israel. If aid trucks were regularly coming into Gaza, they wouldn’t be dealing with desperate people when they got through.
Well tbf you’re not supposed to want to find out about the details of these headlines
Just upvote downvote along with the flow, maybe post something about how horrible things are, and wait for the next one
It’s wild how you read that article and just take the Israeli claim as truth when they’re contradicted by others right there in the article:
It’s wild you just take those officials’ claims as truth when they’re contradicted by others right there in the article:
I didn’t take any of them as truth, because we don’t know. We do know Israel lies, frequently and blatantly, so believing them over other sources is dumb.
Who is believing them over other sources?
You are
The person I was replying to before you jumped in for some reason apparently without reading the context.
Well it’s actually because I read the context that made me jump in to ask the question
That poster also said
And linked an article that has different angles on these killings. I didn’t see any suggestion where he said any of the cited sources were right or wrong
The Beeb didn’t say “most of the casualties were due no to gunfire”. They didn’t say any particular side was true. The OP just chose one side and ignored the other. They’re not trusting BBC, I don’t think any of us think the BBC is making up quotes, they’re selecting trusting a specific source among multiple relayed by BBC.
The OP was saying: “let’s also consider the other side instead of just the one before we jump to conclusions”
By the way, if you see the aerial footage it’s very unlikely that most of the 100 casualties would not be from the trucks running over the crowd
Horrible horrible horrible
It’s no fault of IDF: those people were clearly shielding Hummus!
I feel bad about giving you the chuckle but the vote counts let me know it’s okay to laugh instead of cry once in a while at times like these