Singaporean man executed for importing cannabis (www.straitstimes.com)
from schizoidman@lemmy.zip to world@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 02:55
https://lemmy.zip/post/62859454

#world

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TheTechnician27@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 03:30 next collapse

FYI, The Straits Times is basically a step down from a state mouthpiece. If you don’t believe me, just read the article:

The cannabis seized from Omar is sufficient to feed the addiction of about 144 abusers for a week.

Here’s a Human Rights Watch article from five days ago not flagrantly trying to justify the state-sanctioned murder of a man convicted of an entirely harmless crime. Fuck TST for this journalistic swill.

venusaur@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 06:46 next collapse

I’ll bet AI did that calculation. Either that or a really stoned person.

notastatist@feddit.org on 20 Apr 12:39 collapse

Yeah, thats about 6g per “addict”, this will not be enough for 2 days if they are heavy smokers…

In other words, a kg is like nothing. And getting killed for it is the real crime.

neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works on 20 Apr 12:01 next collapse

Yeah, I saw that and was like, holy fuck, that’s fucked up. What a fucked up country.

wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz on 20 Apr 14:00 next collapse

144 abusers for a week

By my calculations, that’s about 18 ounces (144/8, assuming an eighth per person per week).

That’s not that much, as far as international smuggling goes.

Still, it’s a bullshit reason to execute someone over.

If you wanna smoke weed, Singapore isn’t the place for you…

xep@discuss.online on 21 Apr 10:25 collapse

You think it is harmless, Singapore does not.

TheTechnician27@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 13:24 collapse

You think I think I care what Singapore thinks.

I think Tharman Shanmugaratnam should be tied, blindfolded, and walked into the Port of Singapore over a plank covered in faced-up used heroin needles.

xep@discuss.online on 21 Apr 13:33 collapse

I don’t assume either way. Are you American?

lennybird@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 04:44 next collapse

Singapore is such a fucked up place, yet righties love to act like it’s some utopia.

Lydon_Feen@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 06:57 collapse

And yet, it’s very socialist.

EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com on 20 Apr 07:36 next collapse

Maybe it’s modeled after Star Trek: Next Generation episode “Justice”

An otherwise nice planet/society with some really extreme punishments.

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today on 21 Apr 05:57 collapse

as mariner said" a planet full of sexy people will execute you for the sligthest crime"

mojofrododojo@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 07:49 next collapse

and it promotes harmony between different cultures in a way I’ve never seen - you can’t talk shit about anyone based on religion, for example.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Freedom_of_religion_in_Singapo…

“The Sedition Act also prohibits seditious acts and speech which “promote feelings of ill-will and hostility between different races or classes of the population of Singapore,” and the Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act (MRHA) empowers the Minister for Home Affairs to take a pre-emptive approach by issuing restraining orders against a religious leader that has committed or is attempting to commit certain acts threatening religious harmony.”

it’s a microcosm of different cultures crushed together with little room for debate, should things go partisan conflict tragedies would rapidly ensue; but the restrictions on freedom of speech seem fraught with potential pitfalls…

I look at Singapore like Taiwan - they seem to genuinely try to do the best for a broader range than most, and each face unique ethnic and geographic complexities that they’ve overcome through enginuity and clever, hard working populaces.

But yeah, murdering people for pot… fuck man…

apftwb@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 11:49 next collapse

Singapore’s main party (PAP) doesn’t fit cleanly in the western right-left paradigm.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Action_Party

Center-right, Democratic socialist, anti-communist, “Communitarianism”

marcos@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 13:03 next collapse

No organization in any place fits cleanly in the “western” right-left paradigm. Not even in the US that’s the place people call “western”.

teohhanhui@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 22:15 collapse

They are not democratic socialist. They even got kicked out resigned from Socialist International.

The PAP was officially committed to democratic socialism from its inception in 1954 until its resignation from the Socialist International in 1976.

In 1976, the PAP formally resigned from the Socialist International (SI) after the Dutch Labour Party had initially proposed to expel the PAP for the Singapore government’s internment of political prisoners without trial, and accused it of human rights violations.[116][117]

apftwb@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 03:18 collapse

I think they were referring to Chia Thye Poh and various other crackdowns of “commie scum” boogiemen. Its worth noting Singapore only became a country in the 60s.

As a result, and without ever facing indictment or criminal trial, he became one of the longest-serving political prisoners in the world. Restrictions on his civil rights remained in force for more than 32 years following his arrest, and the duration of his detention was often compared to that of Nelson Mandela, who spent over 27 years in prison following his conviction for treason, sabotage and other political crimes.[1]

(NCMPs kinda sorta address the issue of a single party system. Feels more like a bandaid at best and controlled opposition at worst)

Soulg@ani.social on 21 Apr 10:10 next collapse

Dunno shit about Singapore but even if this is true, the economic style of the country does not dictate its capital punishment statutes

Lydon_Feen@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 12:18 collapse

Of course it doesn’t.

I meant that it was stupid for rightwing conservatives to have a hard-on for Singapore, when it has a lot of socialist economical measures.

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 13:31 collapse

Singapore has a long history of anti-communism. As for its economy, it is… very third positioning.

ohulancutash@feddit.uk on 20 Apr 05:52 next collapse

Disneyland with the death penalty.

texture@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 06:25 next collapse

thats just regular disneyland isnt it?

EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com on 20 Apr 07:32 collapse

Don’t fuck with the mouse.

palordrolap@fedia.io on 20 Apr 12:32 collapse

I guess that explains why he and Minnie never had kids.

lechekaflan@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 08:54 next collapse

William Gibson wrote that Wired article years ago in his brief visit to Singapore.

SippyCup@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 11:23 collapse

So Disneyland.

mrmaplebar@fedia.io on 20 Apr 06:23 next collapse

Imagine killing a human being for possession of a harmless plant. It's wildly unjust.

[deleted] on 20 Apr 09:02 next collapse
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antisoumerde@quokk.au on 20 Apr 09:10 next collapse

lmao as if drivers needed cannabis to be dangerous. Cars should be outlawed, not weed.

Dremor@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 09:29 next collapse

As a cyclist, I’d agree, but there are many place where public transportation and bikes can’t go, especially in the countryside. So cars make sense. Cannabis too, as it has a lot of medical uses. But cannabis in car are where it becomes a problem.

antisoumerde@quokk.au on 20 Apr 09:53 next collapse

If you think im dangerous when I’m driving high you should see me sober :3

(just kidding, I don’t drive)

Dremor@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 10:49 collapse

Thank god you don’t 😂

(Just kidding, you do anything you want as soon as you don’t DUI. I’ve seen enough death from that, don’t want anyone else to loose a loved one to one of those assholes)

ray@sh.itjust.works on 20 Apr 11:30 collapse

there are many place where public transportation and bikes can’t go, especially in the countryside

Are we still talking about Singapore?

Dremor@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 13:46 next collapse

In that case no. If I remember it well, Singapore is quite small, I suppose bike should be enough for most uses except if you have to move big things, or a lot of groceries, in which case cars makes sense.

In my case I have a cargo bike, and live near a mid-sized city, so I can just go do my groceries cycling. But someone who is further in the countryside wouldn’t be able to. Partly because of the distance, no one want to do a two hours trip (or more) to buy groceries, but also because having cars zooming past you at 70km/h and more is kinda stressful.

Case is, cars have uses, cannabis too, but both shouldn’t be used at the same time.

[deleted] on 21 Apr 02:38 collapse
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SippyCup@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 11:21 next collapse

Cars should be outlawed, not weed.

Sober drivers kill more people every year than weed alone. If we had to choose between staying home and using weed to get high, or driving literally anywhere, the safest option is to stay home and get stoned.

[deleted] on 20 Apr 19:32 collapse
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apftwb@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 11:55 collapse

Cars should be outlawed

Driving and car ownership in Singapore is cartoonishly expensive and heavily regulated.

It probably will be outlawed in a decade or so.

bountygiver@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 02:11 collapse

It’s also now all tracked. Every vehicles are now required to install a tracker that is used for charging for toll roads and automatically fine you for speeding at any time.

antisoumerde@quokk.au on 20 Apr 10:01 next collapse

Weed shouldn’t be a crime. Driving under influence, or tired, or stressed out, should be, but it have nothing to do with cannabis per se.

Dremor@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 10:56 collapse

I agree with you on that. Weed shouldn’t be illegal, no more that alcohol.

But saying that it has nothing to do with cannabis is a bit like saying alcohol as nothing to do either. The averse effects on attention is a direct consequence of those substances consumptions.

It the choice of the user to consume it or not, but as it also impair said persons sense of danger, the choice to go driving despite said substances consumption can partly be attributed to the substance itself.

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:37 collapse

is a bit like saying alcohol as nothing to do either

Yep. Alcohol is legal. Driving while impaired by it is not.

Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 11:43 next collapse

have such hubris that they believe those averse effect only affect others

TBF there is a lot of variability in how cannabis affects different people. I’ve got a friend who had to quit because it made him extremely paranoid, to the point that he’d hallucinate. That isn’t universal by a long shot. I haven’t experienced paranoia or hallucinations, the biggest side effect I’ve experienced is sleepiness. Meanwhile my friend found it harder to sleep while high because his brain kept playing tricks on him. Very different brains, very different results.

Though I don’t doubt that plenty of people misjudge their abilities while high, just as they misjudge their abilities when drunk. But it’s important to note that it isn’t necessarily hubris that makes a person say, “Weed doesn’t do that to me.” Some of us genuinely experience different effects. You can’t truly know what’s going on in someone’s head unless you’re the one living in it.

Dremor@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 13:57 collapse

True.

That’s just my own experience with my own potheads friends. Some of them who got into accidents because they thought they where better than other, and misjudged how much cannabis affected them.

Not everyone is like them, sure. But to this day I never met someone who act rational when under the influence of drugs. Maybe I didn’t met enough drugs user, who knows.

funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works on 20 Apr 17:46 next collapse

so why isn’t insomnia punishable by death or otherwise? That would potentially lead someone to crash a car too.

Dremor@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 19:23 next collapse

Do you chose to take insomnia? I’d doubt that.

But to be clear : I am against death penalty. It robs any chance for someone to change for the better, and even the worst criminal can change and try to repair, even partially, the damages he did. In the current case the death penalty is way overblown. But not everyone would be of that opinion, unfortunately.

funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works on 20 Apr 19:58 next collapse

I can absolutely choose not to go to bed, yes.

Dremor@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 20:13 collapse

Not going to bed and insomnia are two different things. Insomnia is a condition where you try to sleep, and can’t. Not going to bed, well, is a choice.

In both cases, you can be held responsible if you end up falling asleep on the wheel while sleep deprived, and cause an accident.

funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works on 20 Apr 20:39 collapse

In both cases, you can be held responsible if you end up falling asleep on the wheel while sleep deprived, and cause an accident.

But that’s not what you said - you were saying that because people have the potential to cause an accident when smoking weed they should be executed.

Dremor@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 00:40 collapse

If is was the case, I understand better the downvotes. That wasn’t my intention de frame it like that, I’m against death penalty.

What I intended to say is that people who takes substances that impair their judgement, and go drive afterward are a danger to everyone around them. They should be sanctioned, just not by death penalty, which, again, make no sense whatsoever in any situation.

Cannabis isn’t a harmless plant, unless it is a variety without THC (study: pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9940647/). And I doubt a smuggler would import Cannabis without THC. Smuggled cannabis are almost always THC heavy plants, and considering how much he seem to have with him, he either intended to fly to the moon and back, or to sell it around.

Now, THC heavy cannabis is a problem because, like alcohol, it impair the jugement about how ready to drive one is, and I’ve seen many of my friends get into accidents because they thought they where somehow not affected by THC. My words were harsh, no doubt, but I never called for any of them to get death penalties.

Edit: drug resistance exists, of course, but isn’t frequent. I happen to have a mild resistance to opioid based painkillers (found out after a surgery, worst pain I have been for a long time 😅)

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:36 collapse

Cannabis isn’t a harmless plant

Nothing is. Thinking otherwise is fallacious zero-tolerance binary thinking. But in terms of magnitude and incidence rate of harm, it’s far less harmful than just about any other intoxicating substance.

it impair the jugement about how ready to drive one is

I’ve never heard that one before, and it’s contradictory to decades of first-hand experience. Let’s have an anecdata war, but not now, since I’m busy. Meanwhile, got any studies to cite? Evidence from US states that have legalized directly contradicts you.

drug resistance exists, of course, but isn’t frequent

While it’s not physically addictive like cocaine, alcohol, benzos and opioids are, cannabis tolerance builds up quickly in habitual users (if that’s what you mean by resistance).

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 20:55 collapse

People choose to “take insomnia” every second of every minute of every hour of every day, in thousands of ways.

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:27 collapse

Driving while knowingly impaired is an offence in the UK.

funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 15:26 next collapse

again, the comment I was replying to said weed should be illegal just incase you dui and I was saying “why isn’t being tired in case you drive illegal then?”

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:49 collapse

That explains why Starmer has a driver.

ayyy@sh.itjust.works on 20 Apr 18:04 next collapse

Everywhere that has legalized weed had this same bullshit scaremongering about how cars are going to be running over schoolchildren every 5 seconds because everyone would just be driving around high all the time.

That hasn’t happened at all, so why do you still make the bullshit claim?

michaelmrose@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 18:08 collapse

Weed + cars doesn’t seem to be a big problem in a state where legal weed is everywhere unlike alcohol.

A great deal of alcohol is consumed out late at night in places one is likely to drive to and from. Almost all accidents happen to people who are plastered not least of which because drunk people get increasingly confident and simultaneously incapable of judging their ability.

Worse drunk people even quite drunk people can reasonably pilot a car which is why most DUIs are given only after hundreds miles of drunk drinking.

People’s false confidence is rewarded right up until they go to jail or kill someone.

Weed rarely produces the degree of impairment and when it does you aren’t going anywhere. Also since there are no legal venues to smoke it you are most commonly at home

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:26 collapse

In places where cannabis has been legalized, a common side-effect is a decline in traffic fatalities. Weed smokers are more likely to be couch-locked when they’ve had too much, rather than going out driving like drunks do.

michaelmrose@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 06:48 collapse

Exactly there are no legal places out and about to smoke so people smoke at home then rather than feeling energetic and pugnacious they are mellow and sleepy so they have neither the need nor desire to drive.

As we speak imbeciles are trying to ruin this by developing testing designed to harass minorities on the side of the road and test whether the have smoked within several days instead of several hours. Soon you may face driving while brown charges for having smoked yesterday because testing cannot accurately measure impairment or recency of usage.

A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 21:39 next collapse

a plant so harmless that someone felt compelled to smuggle it into a country thats known to be extremely hostile to it, ignoring hundreds of warnings, bypassing several opportunities to get rid of it, and ultimately being caught with it and facing the very predictable, very openly warned and expressed repercussions?

A plant that drives someone to do that doesnt sound so harmless to me.

mrmaplebar@fedia.io on 20 Apr 23:06 next collapse

Well that's only natural because you're just a random idiot.

People would smuggle chocolate bars if they were made illegal, that doesn't make them harmful.

So far the Singaporean government has killed a lot more people than cannabis ever did, and for what?

M0oP0o@mander.xyz on 21 Apr 06:15 collapse

People would smuggle chocolate bars if they were made illegal, that doesn’t make them harmful.

What if I told you a chocolate bar killed my family?

Well I would be lying but WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 10:37 next collapse

Well I would be lying but WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

Sounds like something that should be said to the stupid fuckers commiting suicide by government by doing this stupid shit.

FoxtrotDeltaTango@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 19:20 collapse

wOn’T sOmEoNe ThInK oF tHe ChIlDrEn

(You want to legalize Pedophila)

M0oP0o@mander.xyz on 21 Apr 19:35 collapse

Where the literal fuck did you get that idea!?

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:47 collapse

A plant that drives someone to do that doesnt sound so harmless to me.

Audrey II

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 13:18 collapse

It’s a question about respecting a society’s conventions. When you enter a country, you choose to abide with the laws in place, even if you disagree with them. Singapore makes it very clear what happens to those who smuggle drugs.

greenbit@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 13:44 next collapse

While one should avoid getting executed, it’s also fucked up that country does it

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:46 collapse

While one should avoid getting executed,

Wise words to live by.

icelimit@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 15:59 next collapse

Fine people for conventions, sure. You don’t see any mena country straight up executing women for not wearing a hijab, despite their claims that it erodes ‘morality’.

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 21:26 collapse

Their country, their law. The best way to force them to change is to not give them your business.

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 20:14 collapse

Never respect a murderous society, it’s stupid.

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 22 Apr 21:25 collapse

…then, don’t go?

tias@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Apr 06:50 next collapse

I’m not in any way, shape or form defending the policy of Singapore, but… given that they do have a death penalty for this, why the hell did he carry 1 kg into the country? I’ve been to Singapore and I was afraid to even let go of my bags for a second, for fear that someone would plant something on me.

john_t@piefed.ee on 20 Apr 07:59 next collapse

People must sign a paper on the plane acknowledging that import drugs carries the death penalty, even before landing.

The result shouldn’t be surprising for anyone.

Soulg@ani.social on 21 Apr 10:12 collapse

Interesting, is it possible to receive that paper, and surrender yourself immediately and basically say “I’m sorry I don’t want to do this anymore here take it please don’t kill me”?

antisoumerde@quokk.au on 20 Apr 09:11 collapse

Why would you give your money to a country that execute people for a plant

tias@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Apr 10:18 next collapse

Was sent there by my employer, so not my money

noxypaws@pawb.social on 20 Apr 17:30 collapse

could you have refused?

explodicle@sh.itjust.works on 20 Apr 19:41 collapse

Of course, you can refuse anything your voluntary employer asks you to do! 😉

Tortellinius@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 06:39 collapse

Why would you give your money to a country executing children for existing?

paris@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 20 Apr 08:23 next collapse

Two pounds of weed btw. A man’s life because he wanted to get high with friends at a party or something. It’s illegal to import so it’s not unlikely that he wanted to get a bunch and use it over the course of a year. Fucking insane. Also fuck this articles’s loaded language and framing.

MBech@feddit.dk on 20 Apr 08:52 next collapse

Also very likely he was going to sell it.

I’m for legalising weed, but trying to import it to a country that is notorious for executing people for even small amounts is fucking moronic.

SippyCup@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 11:16 collapse

144 people for about a week, per the article.

That’s like 1500 dollars of weed. Hardly worth attempting to smuggle it unless it’s for personal use for a good long while.

boonhet@sopuli.xyz on 20 Apr 13:45 next collapse

Are you sure it’s that cheap in Singapore if it’s illegal there? A kilo is about 20 grand here in Estonia, has been for ages. When buying by the gram anyway, I don’t know anyone who buys it by the kilo. Assume it would be a bit cheaper them. And we don’t execute smugglers, it’s just illegal.

I’d assume if they kill smugglers it’ll be way more expensive in Singapore

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:22 collapse

When buying by the gram anyway

If it’s 20 per G retail, it’s probably about a third of that price per kilo. Risk premium and distributor profit.

And yeah, I’ve never smelled it anywhere I’ve visited in Estonia (or any of the other Baltic states). I like a simple life not involving fines or police shakedowns, so I never buy it unless it’s legal, or (as in the Netherlands and Spain) if not strictly legal, effectively so.

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:17 collapse

A lot of the mules are either extorted into carrying it, or don’t even know that someone has slipped something into their luggage.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 20 Apr 10:08 next collapse

Then why wouldn’t he import 499g to not risk his life

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:23 collapse

Someone calibrates the scale 0.2% off and he’s still dead.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 21 Apr 11:51 collapse

Imagine getting executed over air pressure or humidity

apftwb@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 12:20 collapse

“Oh that? That’s my personal consumption kilo. Reason for visit? Business.”

magnue@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 08:31 next collapse

I feel like if you’re going to have Draconian laws such as this, you should have to be able to prove that the criminal knew the consequences of their actions before doing so. If not, they should be given a non-death sentence with an explicit warning on the record that next time it will be a death sentence.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 20 Apr 10:10 next collapse

Considering that the Singaporean border is covered with signs warning about this, as well as at customs, safe to say he knew

prodigalsorcerer@lemmy.ca on 20 Apr 11:43 collapse

My mom is from Singapore and I’ve visited many times.

I don’t agree with their drug laws (or capital punishment in general), but there are dozens of warnings throughout the airport and on the passport control paperwork (in bold red letters) that you have to ignore to get to this point. They make it as clear as possible that importing drugs is a capital offense.

lechekaflan@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 08:58 next collapse

Horrifying but not surprising given heavy-handed conservatism the island is known for, as conviction rates are much high, the government will keep order at the pleasure of their prime minister.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 20 Apr 10:11 next collapse

The amount of white-knights with colonial mindsets in this comment section is insane. Singapore is an Asian country, you’ll need an objective moral foundation in order to condemn them for this

Numenor@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 10:18 next collapse

I have an objective moral foundation and I condemn them for this

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 20 Apr 10:21 collapse

Good.

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 20 Apr 10:53 next collapse

Objective moral foundation: capital punishment is bad.

Edit: I think your framing of “white knights” and “colonial mindset” in this context is really fucking bad and toxic.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 20 Apr 17:10 next collapse

You’ll need to justify it on something though

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 20 Apr 17:20 collapse

I actually don’t. It is fundamental enough that I can take it as an axiom. If you want to claim its negation, the burden of the argument is on you, so go ahead and make the case against it.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 20 Apr 17:31 collapse

Fundamental on what?

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 20 Apr 17:42 collapse

I take it to be self evident. See also: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axiom

bountygiver@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 02:30 collapse

The objective moral foundation would also says everyone should deserve to live, yet all the capitalist countries are punishing those who can’t work.

Let’s not cast stones from a glass house

SippyCup@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 11:19 collapse

There’s no such thing as objective morality. At some fundamental level you’re just deciding who benefits from your moral compass and who doesn’t.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 20 Apr 17:10 collapse

If objective morality isn’t real, the only reason you’ll have to condemn this is that it goes against your culture. Which is cultural supremacy to some degree

SippyCup@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 18:10 collapse

Objective morality isn’t real. If it were, you’d be able to prove it.

And it’s difficult to argue, coming from a deeply red area of the US that I’m coming from a culture that vilifies the death penalty.

The closest you’ll ever get to an objective moral truth is that you’re free to believe any fucking thing you want, but your rights stop at you. Imposing your beliefs on another living being is supremacy.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 21 Apr 11:45 collapse

If God is real, then Objective Morality is real. If white society wishes to secularise, they have to realise that they no longer have a justification to tell other cultures what to do.

SippyCup@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:19 collapse

Ok.

God isn’t real. If a being of infinite power does exist, it is apathetic, ignorant, or cruel.

If the source of your objective morality is a fairy tale, you have no basis for claiming your morality is objective, let alone accurate.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 22 Apr 10:33 collapse

How do you define cruelty without God being real? How can you know for sure that God is apathetic or ignorant?

If there is no basis for objective morality at all, we have no grounds to condemn other cultures for actions that go against our culture. I would condemn cruelty happening abroad because I believe everyone is made in the image of God, and God’s commandment for all of Humanity was to love one and other. If God isn’t real, then why should I care what happens in other countries, if the only morality I have is based on my white, western culture?

If there is no God, humans are just lumps of cells anyway, not too far removed from plants and animals. So why would it be my business what is going on abroad?

SippyCup@lemmy.world on 23 Apr 19:04 collapse

How do you define cruelty without God being real?

Pretty simply, do you require help knowing the difference between what is cruel and what is not? You might need psychiatric help my guy

How can you know for sure that God is apathetic or ignorant?

Because of the suffering of innocents. Any all powerful creature that allows suffering on the scale we are familiar with either doesn’t know about it, and is thus ignorant, or doesn’t care, and is thus apathetic. Perhaps this creature both knows and cares, in which case it is either powerless to stop it, and therefore not all powerful, or it is a cruel being, and not one by which to set your moral compass.

If there is no basis for objective morality at all,

There isn’t. Morality is a supposition.

we have no grounds to condemn other cultures for actions that go against our culture.

This relies on a number of assumptions which are mostly wrong. Am I condemning an entire culture or the actions of a few people? Do the people of that culture think this is a good idea? Are there members of that group that condemn this? Are those members represented? Is the practice being condemned harmful?

I would condemn cruelty happening abroad because I believe everyone is made in the image of God, and God’s commandment for all of Humanity was to love one and other. If God isn’t real, then why should I care what happens in other countries, if the only morality I have is based on my white, western culture?

So you require someone else to tell you what is right and what is not? Are you incapable of independent thought? Are you devoid of compassion and empathy?

An empathetic person would abhor the suffering of others without divine intervention.

Should God appear to you and demand you sacrifice your eldest son, would you begin sharpening your knife?

If there is no God, humans are just lumps of cells anyway, not too far removed from plants and animals.

We are not removed greatly from animals no. We are animals. We’re pretty far removed from plants though.

So why would it be my business what is going on abroad

Empathy my guy. I was kind of kidding before but now I’m actually concerned you lack basic emotional skills that are natural and innate to most people. That’s definitionally psychopathy, you might want to look in to that.

Flax_vert@feddit.uk on 23 Apr 21:07 collapse

Pretty simply, do you require help knowing the difference between what is cruel and what is not?

Morality is a supposition

No, because we inherited that knowledge from Adam. The fact that we can tell the difference seems to show that an objective morality exists - this includes things such as taking care of elders and avoiding animal cruelty, something which can’t be explained with evolutionary “survival of the fittest”

Because of the suffering of innocents. Any all powerful creature that allows suffering on the scale we are familiar with either doesn’t know about it, and is thus ignorant, or doesn’t care, and is thus apathetic. Perhaps this creature both knows and cares, in which case it is either powerless to stop it, and therefore not all powerful, or it is a cruel being, and not one by which to set your moral compass.

The suffering is generally called by other people most of the time, and man-made factors. Also, can anyone truly be counted innocent? Humans rebel against authority from the earliesr possible age, often before even their first birthday. Likewise, if humans aren’t innocent, then stopping that suffering would mean immediately wiping out every single one of us. God promises eternal rest where there will be no suffering or crying - God is patient and gives us a fair chance, and then judges us. At that point, the idea of God not caring doesn’t work either- God literally became incarnate as a Human and submitted Himself to death, bearing the punishment for sins. He isn’t uncaring - He’s extremely merciful and doesn’t expect to be “won over” with good deeds.

This relies on a number of assumptions which are mostly wrong. Am I condemning an entire culture or the actions of a few people? Do the people of that culture think this is a good idea? Are there members of that group that condemn this? Are those members represented? Is the practice being condemned harmful?

What if the majority of them were in favour?

So you require someone else to tell you what is right and what is not? Are you incapable of independent thought? Are you devoid of compassion and empathy?

Without God, Human morality can be corrupted, such as chattel slavery or the holocaust.

Should God appear to you and demand you sacrifice your eldest son, would you begin sharpening your knife?

I don’t worship a God who would require me to sacrifice my eldest son, so that question isn’t relevant.

SpaceDogge@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 10:29 next collapse

And yet…Singapore has a very low crime rate, is stable, safe and is incredibly wealthy.

robobop@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 10:53 collapse

Stability and wealth seem poor metrics to use as a argument for this, as they can be affected by so many other aspects of governance. Also I’m not convinced of the effect of capital punishment on crime rate, especially when it comes to illicit substances, as it can cause people to be just be extra cautious.

Although if anyone has any data to the contrary I would love to see it.

apftwb@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 12:33 collapse

theindependent.sg/massive-anti-drug-sweep-leads-t…

Singapore is small and the government is heavy handed in anything drug related. A “massive” anti drug sweep netted less cannabis than the smuggler in this post had.

mha.gov.sg/…/compilation-of-drug-related-studies-…

Based on the survey findings, it is estimated that about 0.7% of Singapore residents had consumed an illicit drug at least once in the last 12 months.

apftwb@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 11:41 next collapse

Singapore makes it extremely clear this is the punishment for smuggling any drugs.

This is what the paper disimberkment form used to look like before they switched to an electronic version. I think the electronic version says something similar.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c89650f5-6598-4a66-ac38-849b7b254e9c.jpeg">

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 20 Apr 11:52 next collapse

That’s really fucked up.

faintwhenfree@lemmus.org on 20 Apr 15:09 collapse

It probably is fucked up. But if you know the consequences of getting caught, why would you risk it? If freedom to do drugs is important either be in a jurisdiction that is lenient.

I mean you can try to change the laws and try to protest and get political change, but that wouldn’t leave you much off in Singapore’s authoritarian air.

So the question is, was the hit of recreational drug that important to take the risk?

I’m not saying what or what shouldn’t be, I’m just saying knowing you know what IS, why would you? It’s like you know lava is hot, but you step in it anyway because it should be a morally a volcanic rock.

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 20 Apr 15:31 next collapse

The guy was an idiot. Doesn’t change the fact that Singaporean authoritarianism is fucked up. Being an idiot shouldn’t be a death sentence.

agingelderly@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 18:44 next collapse

Death sentence for being an idiot is exactly what the US needs right now

nikopol@lemmy.zip on 20 Apr 21:53 collapse

More than half the population would be executed.

Dotdashdot@feddit.uk on 20 Apr 22:56 collapse

Now now, don’t threaten us with a good time!

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:15 next collapse

Being an idiot shouldn’t be a death sentence.

Sometimes I wish it were. But then I’ll do something idiotic and have second thoughts.

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 20:13 collapse

We know innocent people are found guilty every day, all over the world.

Only an idiot would cheer on a murderous state, it’s a shame.

MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 11:25 next collapse

was the hit of recreational drug that important to take the risk

He didn’t get executed for taking a “hit”.

He got executed for trafficking a kilo.

Which is still pretty stupid, because 500 grams is the cutoff for the death penalty. He would have been better off to bring in 499 grams. But I assume he was going to make a pretty good profit, and that money was his main motivation.

faintwhenfree@lemmus.org on 21 Apr 12:21 next collapse

Right, clearly so was the risk of a quick buck worth his life? Should be the question.

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:45 collapse

Got him a Darwin Award at least.

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 20:11 collapse

How do you know the “guilty” was even aware that they were smuggling?

Figure it out.

Why are you defending a murderous state?

[deleted] on 22 Apr 20:09 next collapse
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Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 20:09 collapse

It probably is fucked up. But if you know the consequences of getting caught, why would you risk it? If freedom to do drugs is important either be in a jurisdiction that is lenient.

Put on your thinking cap for just a few minutes, and imagine that you are a drug supplier and you want a piece of the Singapore market (as it’s very lucrative).

Would you…

a) Nervously smuggle it yourself and possibly be caught and murdered

or…

b) Pay some desperately poor dummy to deliver it for you, unawares?

These are the people that Singapore is murdering. The desperately poor dummies.

bountygiver@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 02:06 next collapse

They also make sure to repeat that on any flights landing there.

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:14 collapse

Once you’re on the plane, you’re already committed.

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 13:05 collapse

If they declare them before disembarking, they will likely avoid capital punishment. Still will result in a heavy sentencing, though.

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:43 next collapse

Death to Allegra Geller!

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 20:06 collapse

Guess what? If you put up 50 signs saying “Trespassers will be shot!!!” all over your property, and some kid trespasses to get his crashed drone and you fill them full of bullets, you’re still a murderer.

Singapore is murdering people, and it’s revolting. Concentration camps were legal… but we still call it murder today, now don’t we?

Singapore is just as guilty

caurvo@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 20 Apr 12:29 next collapse

William Gibson (author of Neuromancer among other things, not all of them good) published an article about Singapore 30 years ago. It’s titled Disneyland with the Death Penalty.

33 years later and much of this is still very relevant. It has dated somewhat, but accurately reflects what I experienced in Singapore during work travel over the past few years.

At the least, if you’re interested in what dystopian science fiction writers think about Singapore it certainly dropped some puzzles pieces into place for me.

captainlezbian@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 16:22 next collapse

Fuck that sounds weird and uncomfortable of a place. I need some sketch to feel comfortable.

Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Apr 17:13 collapse

I need some scotch to feel comfortable.

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:42 collapse

I need some scratch to feel comfortable.
Crotch.

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 10:12 next collapse

Disneyland with the Death Penalty

I’ve also heard it referred to as China Lite.

Long ago, I dated a Singaporean woman, closely connected to the ruling elite, educated at British public schools and a top-tier university. According to her, along with the relentless propaganda claiming Singapore is a meritocracy, there is also a deep underlying culture of corruption. It’s bad for your health and future income to compete in business against ruling-family-connected ventures. When bidding on major contracts, you’ll need insiders or their proxies to be partners or you’ll be frozen out. There’s nothing as vulgar as open bribery happening, but self-dealing, conflicts of interest and biased courts deliver the same outcomes. And whatever you do, don’t be a prominent member of an opposition party if you value your livelihood and freedom.

And if you’re a Singaporean Malay, know your place or you’ll end up in deep trouble. There are a few tokenism opportunities if you don’t rock the boat.

I’ve been there on business a few times. At least it seems they’re not persecuting gay people as much anymore, and civil society is a bit more open than it was a couple of decades ago. They even seem slightly less obsessed with caning and massive fines for minor offences than they used to be. But “less stifling” is far from the same as “free.”

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 13:01 collapse

Disneyland with the Death Penalty.

Actually it is pretty fitting since their judicial system is medieval. They still do caning for example.

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:40 collapse

TIL

[deleted] on 20 Apr 13:03 next collapse
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tutter@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 20 Apr 13:11 collapse

If you care about addicts, advocate for spending money on social services that help these people. Killing (or imprisoning) dealers have no real effect, we have decades of data on this.

mavu@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Apr 13:14 next collapse

“importing” … did a Hemp plant write this?

orioler25@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 17:52 next collapse

And that’s why I’ll never move to Singapore.

A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 21:36 collapse

Because you cant avoid repercussions of easily avoidable actions?

versionc@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 21:44 next collapse

That’s an appropriate username.

[deleted] on 20 Apr 22:18 next collapse
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A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 22:18 collapse

Yep, thats the typical response when people are backed into a corner and cant make a valid retort.

Krauerking@lemy.lol on 21 Apr 13:32 collapse

LOL you didnt realize that wasnt comment OP. Username still fits.

A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 17:06 collapse

And another one attacking the person cause they cant say anything against the message.

orioler25@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 05:42 next collapse

No, because I require prescriptions that would earn me a death sentence there.

pfried@reddthat.com on 21 Apr 17:33 collapse

You might want to get a better doctor. Cannabis has been found to be ineffective for most of the conditions it’s prescribed for. The very few that it has shown effectiveness for have better treatment options available. uclahealth.org/…/evidence-lacking-medical-cannabi…

orioler25@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:05 next collapse

Ain’t cannabis, which is exactly my point since the classification of “narcotic” is too arbitrary to justify the sentence of death, but thanks for the pop medsci slop.

pfried@reddthat.com on 21 Apr 19:16 collapse

As far as I know, all other narcotics prescribed in the US are allowed in Singapore with an HSA approval, which is exactly my point.

orioler25@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:23 collapse

I’m not in the US, and I know for an absolute fact that mine isnt. Even if that were all true, guess what, that permit would not qualify me to move there with my medication as it is not permanent. Even if that wasn’t the fucking case, then I would still not want to risk a lapse in renewing my permit or filing it improperly and losing access to my medication or worse.

You do not know enough about this topic to be so dedicated to pushing misinformation. Fuckin internet dudes die on hills they don’t even care about enough to look up shit, why?

pfried@reddthat.com on 21 Apr 19:29 collapse

Take a chill pill. I did look up the HSA application for medicines. Cannabis and chewing gums were specifically banned, but nothing else was called out.

orioler25@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 20:19 collapse

You embarrassed yourself online because you have a weird offense to even the notion that weed can be used for medicinal purposes. So much so that you didn’t just smugly say shit that is demonstrably false, but even refused to admit you didn’t research well enough or consider what a person who actually has to check these things would need to look out for in this sort of bureaucratic control.

Clownish. Won’t be reading whatever you send next.

pfried@reddthat.com on 21 Apr 22:22 collapse

You embarrassed yourself online because you have a weird offense to even the notion that weed can be used for medicinal purposes

Not embarrassed at all. If anything, I take offense to people being given bad medical advice. If you were prescribed cannabis, you would be among them.

What have I said that is demonstrably false? Please demonstrate. I’m all ears. What should I have researched instead of the HSA website?

Chill.

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 20:01 collapse

YOU’RE not embarrassed, of course. We are embarrassed for you.

You don’t know enough to be embarrassed.

I take offense at your ignorance, things are tough all over.

pfried@reddthat.com on 22 Apr 20:14 collapse

What am I ignorant about? Are you just going to let me wallow in my ignorance? So far, I have only stated things that are true as far as I know and presented my sources. You and the other lady say that I am misinformed but don’t care to inform me.

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 19:56 collapse

Cannabis has been found to be ineffective for most of the conditions it’s prescribed for.

No, it hasn’t.

Cannabis has been proven to be a very effective treatment for nausea and seizures and more (as your source clearly indicates immediately).

Reading is hard ¯\(ツ)/¯

Also, studies were quite impossible until recently (with the relaxation of The Drug War). We’re still learning about the efficacy.

Regardless, cannabis has been an effective treatment for many medical issues for centuries for a reason, as we are still discovering, as your source clearly indicates.

pfried@reddthat.com on 22 Apr 20:33 collapse

Cannabis has been found to be ineffective for most of the conditions it’s prescribed for.

No, it hasn’t.

From the very beginning of the linked article: “Medical cannabis lacks adequate scientific backing for most of the conditions it is commonly used to treat”

Reading is hard, as you say.

Cannabis has been proven to be a very effective treatment for nausea and seizures

Not “very” and not for “nausea and seizures” in general. It has shown effectiveness specifically for “chemotherapy-induced nausea” and “certain severe pediatric seizure disorders such as Dravet syndrome and Lennox-Gastaut syndrome” according to the very article that you claim to have read. For more, Dr. Chung explains

“Recently, cannabidiol (CBD) is the one that showed efficacy, but people tend to extend that into any other epilepsy… It is confined, as evidence suggests, to those 2 syndromes, but not other types of epilepsy.”

The standard of care treatment for chemotherapy induced nausea is antiemetics. More recently, Dravet Syndrome can be treated with Zorevunerson with over 90% efficacy. This is without the risk of cannabis associated psychotic symptoms. I have personally witnessed a smart kid at a top university succumb to debilitating marijuana induced schizophrenia and get banned from campus as a safety risk. That is not a side effect that patients should accept.

Regardless, cannabis has been an effective treatment for many medical issues for centuries for a reason,

Mercury was a mainstay in medicine for treating syphilis, constipation, and infections (using calomel) from the 16th to 20th centuries, often causing severe toxicity. Medical science is a relatively new concept. Doctors didn’t start sterilizing their instruments until the late 19th century.

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 12:58 next collapse

Because they will never let him in in the first place. Vast majority of countries don’t take in immigrants.

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 17:29 collapse

Very smug, how many innocent deaths are you comfortable with?

Cops are found planting evidence all around the world… the judged are proven innocent with DNA every day.

… and even if everything above wasn’t the case, even IF every one of the guilty were truly guilty… they were each murdered by the State, many with no blood on their hands.

It’s an abomination. But be smug about it, it lets everybody know what you are

You know what else is easily avoidable? Not murdering people. Singapore should try it

A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 18:37 collapse

Singapore does try it.

Thats why there are warnings everywhere about what will happen to you if you are so unfathomably self centered and stupid to try and do it anyways.

Basically begging people NOT to do it.

And no amount of your performative pearl clutching will change the fact that this is the smugglers fault and that he faced the very publicly known consequences of it.

Trying to compare it to police planting evidence is a fucking insult to actual victims.

But I’m the smug one. Yeah, sure buddy.

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 18:58 collapse

Singapore does try it.

Not very hard. Stop murdering people over transporting plants.

Simple.

Thats why there are warnings everywhere about what will happen to you if you are so unfathomably self centered and stupid to try and do it anyways. Basically begging people NOT to do it.

Doesn’t matter, still murder.

And no amount of your performative pearl clutching will change the fact that this is the smugglers fault and that he faced the very publicly known consequences of it.

Not the smuggler’s fault often; many are doing this unaware. For example, driving a vehicle for work without knowing your coworker is a smuggler.

But, even IF every single one was 100% guilty (even though this is not the case), it’s murder.

Many are totally innocent. It doesn’t matter to you.

Trying to compare it to police planting evidence is a fucking insult to actual victims.

Wrong. Imprisoning and murdering people over plants is a fucking insult to all humanity

But I’m the smug one. Yeah, sure buddy.

You’re revolting to me, pal. You are defending murder.

GreenKnight23@lemmy.world on 20 Apr 19:26 next collapse

well I’m sure he won’t ever do that again!

surely he learned his lesson.

MrSulu@lemmy.ml on 20 Apr 22:01 next collapse

Challenging to criticize Singapore if you’re from somewhere with monthly massacres of school children.

NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 05:41 next collapse

the monthly massacres aren’t government policy. executing a cannabis trafficker is.

Riverside@reddthat.com on 21 Apr 06:12 next collapse

Not very relevant distinction for the murdered children

NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 17:25 collapse

not really relevant to the topic at hand.

Tortellinius@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 06:35 next collapse

Good news! Lemme just go to the parents and tell them!

NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 17:32 collapse

I don’t see what schoolkids parents has to do with a government sanctioned execution of a cannabis trafficker.

slickgoat@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 08:54 next collapse

That makes a ton of difference to the dead schoolkids.

NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 17:24 collapse

the article doesn’t say anything about the schoolkids POV on the dead traffickers or maybe you should just stay on topic

slickgoat@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 23:51 collapse

This is probably a shock for you to learn, but on a public forum it’s possible to draw conclusions from any source and not just repeat the OPs post.

MrSulu@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 13:58 collapse

There is an active policy of not preventing cold massacres. Hope that clarifies the point.

[deleted] on 21 Apr 17:35 next collapse
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Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 17:36 next collapse

… and Singapore has an active policy of condoning and committing murder. That’s bad.

I pray that clears things up for you.

MrSulu@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 22:42 collapse

Oh dear

NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 18:04 collapse

There is no official “active policy” at the national level that I’m aware of. -As for unofficial policy, that varies from one municipality to the next, and from one state to the next. Is the Singaporean policy of executing cannabis traffickers not an official national policy carried out uniformly across the country?

MrSulu@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 22:45 collapse

Deaths arising from acts of omission can be prosecuted. Doesn’t work with Government given the Amendment arguments.

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 09:54 next collapse

Two things can both be bad.

Soulg@ani.social on 21 Apr 10:06 collapse

Impossible

qaz@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 17:28 next collapse

Not everyone on the internet lives in the US

MrSulu@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 22:40 collapse

My comment was too subtle?

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 17:35 collapse

Not at all. Murder is murder regardless of the country.

How could you possibly think that is challenging? Of course it should be criticized.

vantablack@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 21 Apr 00:29 next collapse

what a shithole

BillCheddar@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 03:25 collapse

Is that a mirror or a microphone?

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 18:55 collapse

It’s a statement. It means Singapore is unpleasant.

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today on 21 Apr 05:57 next collapse

Asia pretty much will execute people for importing drugs

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 09:53 next collapse

Yet China manufactures a large percentage of the fentanyl sold on the US black market.

I can’t help wondering if this is Opium Wars payback against the anglophones.

Soulg@ani.social on 21 Apr 10:05 collapse

You’d think they’d be targeting the UK then, no?

MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 11:18 collapse

“Asia” is a HUGE place, with all kinds of different people, countries and cultures.

60% of the world’s population lives in Asia.

I am currently smoking a joint in Asia. I bought it legally, in the shop down the street.

So…yeah…no death penalty for me.

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:34 collapse

Savage!

kablez@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 06:47 next collapse

Singapore loves to pretend it’s a modern country with it’s gardens and fancy buildings.

But beneath the surface is an overworked population ruled by a family dictatorship.

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 12:56 next collapse

The dictatorship is how you get the gardens and fancy buildings.

SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 21 Apr 18:15 collapse

No, that’s from science and engineers and public works. Fascists just like to co-opt that because it LOOKS socialist and try to use that to trick people.

Giant bronze statues of themselves, castles, starvation, fear, poor decisions, and heavy militarization is what dictatorships ACTUALLY get you.

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 21:23 collapse

No, that’s from science and engineers and public works.

We have scientists, engineers, and city planners too in America, despite what anyone says. But we don’t have the draconian enforcement that these places have.

zaphod@sopuli.xyz on 21 Apr 13:59 next collapse

family dictatorship.

It’s effectively a single party state with an elected dictator, but AFAIK their prime ministers and presidents don’t come all from the same family.

kablez@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 14:11 collapse

You’re right it’s not a dictatorship like North Korea, but it’s elections are also not as clean and fair as other modern democracies.

The same ruling party has dominated since independence, and maintained structural imbalance suppressing the ability for any meaningful opposition to rise.

While leadership in Singapore isn’t hereditary, the nation has been guided by a very small political elite originating from Lee Kuan Yew.

icelimit@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 14:46 next collapse

It’s china with a better passport. There is no freedom of press there.

andxz@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:12 collapse

Disneyland with the death penalty. - William Gibson

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:33 collapse

Well… there’s a Disneyland in California, USA… which does have the death penalty.

Mangoholic@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 07:05 next collapse

No matter how you spin it thats barbaric

itisileclerk@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 08:02 next collapse

I am reading “Singaporean man executed for importing cannibals” and I am thinking “why would anyone import cannibals???”

Psythik@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 08:45 next collapse

The cannabis seized from Omar is sufficient to feed the addiction of about 144 abusers for a week.

What the hell is up with this bizarre line in the article? “Addiction”? “Abusers”? Is the the article writer fucking serious with this Reefer Madness shit? What a god damn clown.

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 09:24 next collapse

Those hopeless addicts are consuming a bit over 3 grams of weed per week. Definite threat to society there.

And of course the guy being executed is not from the Chinese elite, he’s a Singaporean Malay.

Lemmyme@lemmy.ml on 21 Apr 13:37 collapse

No, 1009.1g divided by 144 potheads is 7g. So the article assumes they are smoking a gram a day each. There should be protests about this, and I think the author of this article should be fired, it’s so insensitive.

rwrwefwef@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 12:56 next collapse

It’s an Asian outlet. They never really had much sympathy for them.

ohshit604@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 17:58 next collapse

As someone who has smoked weed for nearly 10 years now, it is addictive and can be abused.

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 18:49 collapse

“addiction” used to mean physical withdrawals… now it means weed, television, working out, phones, sex, and more.

Weed withdrawal is milder than caffeine withdrawal for most people.

With 10 being death from withdrawal (like from alcohol), on a scale of 1 to 10 cannabis is a 1.

Squizzy@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:14 next collapse

This is what we all told eachother in school yeah, its not that simple though. There are habitual users with mental issues stemming from its use.

Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:27 next collapse

Yeah, when I had a heroin addiction it kind of used to piss me off when people would talk about addictions to porn and stuff. I’d think they had no idea what addiction really meant. Try going cold turkey from smack. But TBF even though maybe the word addiction doesn’t apply in the same way, it’s certainly true that any compulsive behaviour that’s detrimental to your life is a problem that needs help.

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:31 next collapse

Nice to see you left it behind, congrats.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:52 collapse

Anytime someone compares those two, you can just point out that people aren’t dependent on porn or gaming. That their bodies won’t shock themselves to death if they go cold turkey.

The keyword being dependency. People use those interchangeably, but they’re two medically distinct things and you usually have both to a drug, but not necessarily. You can be addicted and not dependent or dependent without addiction. The first one would be someone who still wants to use and dreams about it despite having had no substance for years, and the second one is for instance a long term pain patient who didn’t even know what medication they were on but start shivering and getting nauseous as they forget to take their meds, despite them not having any psychological need to take them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_dependence

It’s somewhat okay to use them interchangeably but it would be super rude to talk about how addicted to one’s phone one is while someone is talking about having gone through actual substance use disorder, addiction, dependency and all.

Good job on pulling through man!

Dasus@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:46 collapse

addiction" used to mean physical withdrawals

No it didn’t. That’s dependency. They’re two medically distinct things. Addiction is a brain disorder, dependency isn’t.

If stupid people didn’t exist and the world wasn’t as unjust as it is, I wouldn’t get any withdrawal from quitting weed. As it is, I get quite irate, but I think that’s just my default setting nowadays, not a withdrawal symptom.

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 19:33 collapse

Yeah, it did, and does.

I’m speaking of common vernacular, not in medical terms. The common vernacular has changed over the years (as it always does).

Things without (and with) dependency are called addictions often, even “habits”. I see it constantly in social media. The term “addiction” used to be much more limited.

If you don’t believe me, feel free to consult a dictionary.

Medical terms are a different matter. Like the word “retarded”, a word can mean one thing medically, and quite another in common parlance.

Your correction has been corrected.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 19:59 collapse

Your correction has been corrected.

Lol no. You’re just angry I corrected you. “Nuh-uh, I’m actually right, also go and do your own research.”

I have. I’ve also been using the terms for like 30 years in several languages.

Addiction is a brain disorder. Even in common vernacular. Dependence is different. Usually with SUD they overlap, but for instance cannabis doesn’t cause dependency (because there’s really no physical withdrawal) which is why you hear a lot of addicted teenager weeders saying “weed isn’t addictive, man”, because they don’t understand the difference between those two words.

Just because they are using a word prescriptively wrong because they don’t understand what it means doesn’t make it wrong for them to use in that context, descriptively. And no, not everyone who knows the difference of “addiction” and “dependence” is speaking in ‘a medical context’. They’re really not that challenging as concepts.

Feel free to consult a dictionary for what “prescriptive” and “descriptive” mean. ;> Perhaps you should also check what “vernacular” means?

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:29 collapse

Regardless… that’s enough to be considered trafficking pretty much everywhere… and he did it in Singapore?! Nice Darwin Award.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:42 collapse

A single kilo?

That’s literally barely the limit of a “severe” drug crime in Finland, and if you had exactly 1kg you wouldn’t get sentenced for a severe/serious/aggravated (“felony” as the Americans would say) drug crime.

Having to go to prison for an amount like this wouldn’t even happen in Finland. Our justice system sucks in lots of places, yeah, and the attitudes towards drugs are verifiably archaic, especially on a social level, but you wouldn’t have to actually go to prison unless you managed to get caught with a kilo at least once a year for a few years in a row, and the chances are that they still wouldn’t put you in as a non-violent offender.

Drugs are everywhere. The severity of the laws only affects the price and quality, not availability. (Case in point, there’s a booming drug industry inside prisons, everywhere.)

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 19:58 collapse

That’s literally barely the limit of a “severe” drug crime in Finland,

The article’s about Singapore.
Laws vary widely by country and a kilo is not a small amount (unless you’re a murican troll). Most countries are in the grams.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 20:19 collapse

The article’s about Singapore.

Yes, I know. I can read the title just as I can read your comment saying “pretty much anywhere” and afterwards incredulously pointing out Singapore. Meaning your “anywhere” means actually anywhere, and not just “anywhere in Singapore.” Last I checked “anywhere” did indeed contain Finland as well.

nd a kilo is not a small amount (unless you’re a murican troll)

No I’m a person who’s been growing weed for the past 20 years. I once had three large tents, hundreds of grams and more than two dozen plants taken from me. They didn’t even try accusing me of a “felony”, but the basic non-aggravated version of the crime. The production capability I had was about 400-500g/m2 and I had 2.49m2 of growing room plus my balcony. Kilo is a medium amount. It’s not a small amount, no, but it’s by no means a huge amount. It’s one good harvest, grown in a couple of tents (or one really large one but I’ve never liked >1.2m tents) in an apartment building.

Are you aware of the distinction of de jure and de facto?

Because de jure we have quite draconian drug laws, but de facto you never go to prison for drugs unless you’re dealing “harder” stuff and there’s also violence/properly organised crime (which we don’t have a lot of in the first place.)

For instance de jure I have all sorts of rights as a person. But de facto, I was literally tortured by the cops in a jail when they took my plants away. And they didn’t even have a reason to put me in jail in the first place. None of my friends who’ve been caught growing have been taken to jail and the other time I got caught I didn’t either.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/fd267a61-8378-4577-9d2e-bf4ac3c66cd3.jpeg">

Yet the cops kept me in an isolation cell with the lights constantly on while denying me my prescription medication while I went psychotic over three days and drew on the walls with my blood. And that mattress and blanket weren’t there, they took them away and only put them back for the photo.

My point being ALL COPS ARE BASTARDS, even if some laws in other places are harsher than some.

But you said a kilo is “traffficking” almost anywhere. That’s just not true. Especially in a lot of places you actually have to prove the trafficking or intent to traffic. For instance the cops asked me about my small plastic baggies, told them they’re for freezing food. He laughed, obviously. They missed my scale, despite the fact it was literally right on the table next to my keyboard. But… if you look at the colour scheme it’s not entirely unreasonable they missed it.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ce421662-40e7-4730-a731-94fadaaf47a2.jpeg"> (and yes I need to clean ik)

But to add to that, they also missed a massive glass jar sitting on my kitchen table with almost a hecto of bud in it. Which was a nice surprise once I got home.

I ended up influencing Finnish law since the cops prevented me from filming them and I got that part on video (them taking my phone away saying “youre not allowed to film the police when they work”) and it went all the way to the supremely court.

Anyways, I ramble, I’m aware. I’m not sorry about it though it’s all related I just know most people can’t handle lots of language and prefer shorter comments.

0x0@lemmy.zip on 21 Apr 20:51 collapse

Riiiiight… Claude was it? You pro’lly should get high on your own supply then. Bye.

Dasus@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 21:29 next collapse

Jesus, before the last couple of years it used to be “get a therapist” now it’s all “lol you use LLM’s” to write your comments. Sure I do buddy. Because… … Why exactly? Genuinely? I see about the same amount of reason as using hacks in gaming (only LLM’s would make any non-developmentally challenged persons comments shittier, not better). You wouldn’t be able to repeat the performance in real life so you’d never impress anyone so why would you bother?

Do you want photos of my grows? Can’t really be arsed to go on PC to retrieve older ones but let’s see

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/130de6b6-a57b-453c-86c1-cb8e68a69c63.jpeg">

Oh and the supreme court thing

www.hs.fi/suomi/art-2000009654524.html

Ofc I get high on my own supply. That’s why I grow it, dumbo. Can I please have some more platitudes as bad jokes?

Mulligrubs@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 19:47 collapse

You’ve had enough Jagermeister, I’m cutting you off. Adios.

Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works on 21 Apr 11:15 next collapse

Is picture related or not? If so, looks like he’s got a few keys of coke or meth, a key of heroin or MDMA (tan powder bag) and a bunch of bags of pills that I assume are meth because they are into taking that shit orally in Asia.

arc99@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 19:46 next collapse

Singapore - “we straight up kill drug smugglers to death and have done so for 50 years”. Drug smuggler - “I’m sure they’re exaggerating”

silentdon@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 20:06 next collapse

Singapore is notorious for having extreme penalties for relatively minor crimes

Agent641@lemmy.world on 21 Apr 22:54 collapse

“Eating a meal? A succulent Chinese meal?!”

Sound of firing squad loading rifles

Pman@lemmy.org on 21 Apr 22:56 collapse

“This is democracy manifest!”

firing squad fires

enphurgen@lemmy.world on 22 Apr 00:03 collapse

Here I am in Canada, Just finished a perfectly legal grow for my own personal use and got 28 oz from it

lordziv@lemmy.nz on 22 Apr 03:12 collapse

784 grams is wiiild :o