Japan's Honda and Nissan to reportedly begin merger talks
(www.cnbc.com)
from return2ozma@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 17 Dec 18:54
https://lemmy.world/post/23248421
from return2ozma@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 17 Dec 18:54
https://lemmy.world/post/23248421
#world
threaded - newest
GTR Type-R? š³šš
With the current market weāre more likely to see a Juke CRV š¤¢
Maybe a Murano Pilot Cabriolet
Nissan Z with Vtec?
š„ŗ šš
VTEC just kicked in yo
(Ancient meme time)
Edit: I miss my accord
V-Tec Mitsubishi lancer evo (because Nissan has a majority stake in Mitsubishi)? šš
I just want those Skyline R34s back
Nissan has been a dumpster fire for two decades. Honda should steer clear.
On the other hand, maybe a merger will help them get their shit together and compete with Toyota.
Nissan holds a majority stake with Mitsubishi. That actually might be worth something to Honda, and they also seem to be able to produce some cheap evs, like the leaf which Honda doesnāt seem able to do currently.
Mitsubishi the conglomerate or Mitsubishi the automaker? The former seems good but not the latter.
Auto I believe, but that still might be useful. They have access to Cummins engines, which are basically one of the only manufacturers that meet the next phase of ghg emissions requirements. Plus since Honda seems to be retooling their factories for solid state batteries, it might allow them to produce some stop gap evs without relying on other manufacturers like GM (Hondas latest is just a rebadged Chevy Blazer EV).
They definitely need to pump the brakes on this potential merger.
That sounds like a disaster for Honda. Nissan doesnāt hardly have anything to offer except supply/sales volume. Honda beats them on engine tech, transmission tech, chassis tech, basically everything. Honda has lots to lose by taking on their mess, and Nissan doesnāt.
I donāt know about in Japan, but in the US, Nissan has a sub-$30k EV with the Leaf and Honda does not. So that would be worth something to them considering California is trying to phase out ICE cars.
insideevs.com/ā¦/ev-california-gas-car-sales-ban-2ā¦
Thatās still only a single model that is <8% of Nissanās already abysmal US sales volume. Nissanās massive pile of garbage that fills up the rest of portfolio (and institutional problems behind the scenes) is absolutely NOT worth dealing with for the technology in a single model like that, even if it is ānecessaryā to offer to ensure compliance eith wishy washy regulatory soon-to-beās. They would be much better off clean-slating their own, EV tech is significantly easier to develop compared to new ICE designs and if anyone is capable of that, itās Honda.
Itās a single model and virtually the only model of EV less affluent Americans can afford. Thatās a huge market.
It is a big, untapped market but itās not a big market for the Leaf. Tesla sold 3x more Model 3 in the last year alone than Nissan has sold in the entire 14 year production run of the Leaf. Itās a hot mess.
The Model 3 is over $40,000. Itās selling more because Americans are barely even aware cheaper EVs exist.
I think itās more that they donāt want to choose the lowest quality option when making such a large purchase. Iād rather spend an extra few thousand, spread over 5 years or whatever term length you choose, to get something that gives more power, range, and features than be stuck with a low quality EV that barely gets a 100 mile range after my loan is paid off.
The Bolt is another cheap EV that sells quite a bit better than the Leaf but still itās a tiny fraction of what more expensive models like the Model 3 or Ioniq 5 sell because itās so limited. You arenāt going to fit your family of 4 or 5 inside on comfortably, so why not just spend a little more to get something that can be used outside of solo work commutes if youāre going to be spending tens of thousands on it either way?
Itās the same reason why people buy trucks even if they only need a truck 2-3 times a year. Itās better to have a vehicle that can check all the boxes than something thatāll perform well in only a few areas of use.
It must be nice to have an extra few thousand to spend.
Well, we are talking about buying new cars, so I wouldnāt consider that the right choice for someone living paycheck to paycheck.
Iām simply pointing out that it doesnāt make sense to spend $35k on a shitbox when you can spend $40k on something decent. When cash is tight, it makes sense to go for the best value even if it means spending a fraction more up front (or in this case, spread out over multiple years). How will you feel about the $35k you spent on the car when you canāt use it because the range is shit and the battery wears out quickly from constantly draining and recharging its entire capacity?
This is not any different than buying a $1000 used car that costs you $5000 in gas per year versus a $5000 car that costs $1000 in gas per year. Which one would you pick?
Except the chevy volt is in the same sub 30k category and they handily beat the pants off of the leaf in range. The leaf only gets a meager 149 miles per charge. The volt can go about 100 miles further and has the ability to charge faster.
? I own a leaf and get 215 miles per chargeā¦ Plus for most peoples the 149 on the base model is fine to go to work and back daily
2020 leaf sv plus owner here. Range is 212 officially but when my car is full charge it tells me 215 iirc
Why are you giving a question mark? The only leaf under $30k is the base with a 149 mile range. The sv plus with the 212 range is like $37k. Thatās $10,000 more than a volt and still like 30 or 40 miles less range.
Also, yes, 149 would be enough for most people who never want a vehicleto take out of town, but youāre leaving out a huge amount of problems with a range like that. First, if youāre going to charge it every day it means you better own a house and garage to keep it in and charge, because charging stations for 45 minutes every other day or so would be terrible to deal with. Then if you live in a place where it gets really cold that mileage will be hacked down to about 110 miles. Plus, your battery will not last nearly as long if you have to use most of its range all the time and always have to charge it up to 100% full. Charging an EV up to just 80% or so capacity and recharging it at about 20% will literally double the lifespan of the battery. A small capacity EV like that wonāt last nearly as long as one with a bigger battery.
Public perception is also a factor. Even seeing collaborated cars like their EV Chevy thing takes away from Hondaās perception of reliability.
I absolutely agree with you there. For consumer space this merger doesnāt make sense for Honda. For Nissan share holder, this is fantasticā¦ Only thing I can think of is Nissan has some EV tech that Honda could use but thatās quite the stretch. Nissan actually jumped into EV relatively early but they didnāt iterate on it quickly enough to matter. Honda has been dragging their feet on EV and they both completely missed the boat on bridge tech offering like plug in hybrid. This merger isnāt going to do anything to fix that.
Since Nissan is now a low end brand and Honda is moving more towards premium side perhaps being together would cover the market segments better. The merger absolutely does nothing for the high end market though.
The one thing that I donāt know anything about is the commercial market domestically in Japan. Perhaps Nissan has good market share which Honda could gain from this merger. Maybe someone could chime in on this.
Guaranteed this just turns Honda into Nissan quality
Drop a honda NA 4 cylinder drivetrain into a nissan vehicle and sell it for a lower price than a Honda and Iād be cool with it. Nissans only really issue is their engines and trannys they use.
A good point, but I do like the observation that the only problems Nissan has are with the two most important parts of a vehicle.
This is some pretty good spaghetti, just the noodles and sauce are trash.
And now itās some great spaghetti because it was good before, but now the noodles and sauce are way better?
sparks
radio goes out
I didnāt need it anyway.
I dunno. There are some very enthusiastic Honda fanboys that will be watching like a hawk.
This could just be Nissan reading the writing on the wall and choosing to do something about it before itās too late.
Honda still needs to rely on more than ānationalismā to sell their cars, unlike American brands.
They were on their way.
You donāt go less and less and less and less displacement forever and not expect some hiccups. Their new engines have been less engine, more pressure-cooker.
Aināt like the old K and J engine bro-team that took the 2000ās and 2010ās.
no donāt nissan my hondas :(
Honestly thoughā¦ā¦ I wouldnāt be against a Hondaād Nissanā¦ā¦.
*Except the electronics
There goes another dependable car, motorcycle and outboard manufacturer. Nissan is the Japanese Renault, or any of the Stellantis brands. I have owned 2 Nissans and a Honda. Iād buy a currrent Honda in a heartbeat. I wonāt touch a Nissan with a 10 ft pole.
Oh yay more whittling down of an already conglomerated industry surely this will be good for people
Japanese companies have a history of consolidating to be able to compete with foreign companies. This is in response to the sudden rise of Chinese companies and China replacing Japan as the top automotive exporter.
Do they though? Foreign companies are far more consolidated.
Better tech for Mitsubishi will also be well received
Bye bye Honda
Could Honda's interest be based on Nissan's frame-based trucks? I don't think Honda has any recent history in those markets.
Hamimsmaham
Honda, Nissan-> Hinsan or Nosda or Honsan or Nisda. Or if we can randomizeā¦ Nionhassdan would be popular with the ladies.
How about a Datsun?
Your Ford Lincoln Mercury dealer. BMW Volkswagen dealer. Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep. There are tons of companies owned together that keep names around because they can use them for various reasons. Whether it be quality lines they want seperated due to market. People donāt go to the Bentley dealer looking to buy a VW Beetle.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/33488c34-e6de-46ce-817e-62c1691de59c.jpeg">
RIP Mitsubishi motors. Went bankrupt and then got nissanād into the void.
Thatās not true, they still exist in 2077