Iran says missile attack against Israel was 'legal, rational and legitimate'
(www.middleeasteye.net)
from pete_link@lemmy.ml to world@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 19:36
https://lemmy.ml/post/20958441
from pete_link@lemmy.ml to world@lemmy.world on 02 Oct 19:36
https://lemmy.ml/post/20958441
cross-posted from: lemmy.ml/post/20957893
By MEE staff. Published date: 2 October 2024 11:34 BST
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Legal? Probably not. But there has been little interest for Israels international allies to uphold legal principles when it comes to Israeli actions.
Rational? In order to assess that we would need to know, which information they had when they made the decision. Probably we’ll have historians analyze and discuss this in a few years.
Legitimate? From what we know the strikes were aimed and hit military targets, in particular air bases. Weakening Israels ability to bomb people relentlessly like the continue to do in Gaza and Lebanon will prevent many more civilians being killed in those air raids.
Ultimately the problem with every military escalation is that there is only three possible scenarios. Either one side, or the other side miscalculated their strength and resolve compared to their enemies, or both sides miscalculated. If everyone involved calculated correctly, they wouldn’t bother fighting.
Your assuming those involved are remotely rational. Once you get to the point where someone is willing to kill themselves to kill others it doesn’t really matter about anyone else’s strength and resolve.
Sounds very rational.
Very cool, and very legal.
I definitely support the right of women to uncover their hair in public without getting murdered. Yet you seem to be spending an awful lot of energy defending the regime in Iran.
You went to a lot of trouble to answer a question no one asked.
I ask again, did Rhodesia have a right to exist?
I will remind you that the Europeans in Rhodesia also viewed their existence as an existential fight against barbarism.
Apartheid countries always do.
It was actually no trouble at all to discuss Iran in a post about Iran. What would be weird is if I started bringing up non-existent countries from completely different continents.
In recent history there have been three apartheid countries.
Apartheid South Africa (interestingly enough at the end they were ONLY supported by Israel which even then recognized they were an apartheid country) which peacefully gave equal rights to all citizens, even though they described the citizens with unequal rights as terrorists.
Rhodesia, with delusions of grandeur of their own martial skill (huh, the metaphor is even better than I thought. I mean, who the fuck thought it was a smart idea to have a tank heavy army in an urban setting without screening infantry.) That fought against giving their unequal citizens rights militarily until they were defeated.
And Israel. Whom every black person that lived through apartheid South Africa and has visited the West Bank or Gaza has described as being far worse in terms of humiliation and lack of rights.
And you wonder why I bring up Rhodesia?
At this point, defenders of Israel are as morally repugnant as every white person in the eighties that defended apartheid South Africa or Rhodesia.
And no, a racist (which is a required attribute to defend apartheid) is not a diverse voice that should be represented.
Oh and that racist country is currently trying to do everything in it’s power to start a war with Iran, and drag my country into it. Also, all the weapons that racist country uses is paid for with my tax dollars, so every one of the twenty thousand or more children it has blown up is someone that is dead through my money. So yeah, it’s very relevant. I’m sick of paying for Israel to murder children of a people whose land it wants.
As I already said, you are going to an awful lot of effort to defend a country that executes women for wearing a hair cover improperly.
I saw no defense of Iran in their comment. Like do you think everyone reading this cannot see exactly what you’re trying to do?
context: Iran launched at least 180 missiles into Israel on Tuesday
Yes we do see exactly what they are trying to do here. To be honest, I’m finished indulging it.
Do you really not see how Israel attacked Iran twice in an attack that would constitute an act of war with every other country in the world?
I love how you don’t mention that the US promised Iran a peace treaty if they ignored Israel assassinating an ambassador to the country in Iran’s capital.
How bad faith do you have to be to pretend that Israel isn’t the crazy one attacking everyone first and committing acts that the former head of the CIA described as a terrorist attack.
Israel is trying to enact a nihilistic regional murder spree, and it is obvious to everyone that isn’t okay with the systematic slaughter of children.
Twenty thousand child blown up, or shredded by shrapnel, or buried alive in a year. Multiple torture camps that keep civilians and doctors tied up tight enough that limbs are amputated regularly, the regular intentional targeting of medical personal, an apartheid government based on race.
That’s what you defend.
I don’t agree or like Iran’s government, but I don’t want a war with them. It says so much to everyone here that you read that as supporting them.
I don’t agree with or like Israel’s government, which I have stated publicly multiple times.
I’m not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, or what your obsession is with a country that existed for a dozen or so years half a century ago.
I try and raise awareness of biased mods when I can.
The Rhodesia option is the direction the Israel government and people have decided to take.
Morally they are the same thing. Defending one is the same thing as defending the other.
Apartheid governments are intrinsically racist.
I just scrolled through three months of your posts while waiting for my wife to wake up, and had to stop cause that is boring as hell. Ugh. Not doing that again.
I found a single critical post of Israel when they intentionally killed the American woman in the west bank. But you didn’t acknowledge that they lied about it before acknowledging it, or that or was obviously intentional.
That is it. Now, I didn’t go the full year, so maybe there were comments before that.
I did find out about the Futo keyboard though. So thanks for that.
Also, just a heads up, Thunderbird for android has inserted trackers. The ui of fair email isn’t as nice, but at least it isn’t tracking you.
And yeah, ‘say it ain’t so’ about Neil Gaimen. Why is it so hard to not be a scumbag?
Also, the movie tusk was horrible.
… Just out of curiosity, and not a pointed question like the Rhodesia one, but how do you feel about New York City/State?
Netanyahu has been a criminal for many years, not just the past 3 months. His far-right partners should be disturbing to anyone who cares about freedom and human dignity. I’m not going to scroll through old comments to find examples for you though.
I like Thunderbird. They use telemetry in a way that is pretty standard, and it can be switched off completely if you don’t like it. I understand the philosophical objection, but I support the project.
Holy shit, seriously, thanks for the futo keyboard suggestion.
Oh that explains a lot. Wonder when they’ll go full r/worldnews levels of post and comments control
That’s why we have a diverse moderation team. My politics don’t effect my moderation decisions. But even if they did, other mods would step in to correct it. And vice-versa.
Great in theory, in practice the others seem to have it going that way
If you have questions about a moderation decision, you can always message me or another mod. We have frequent discussions and often make changes to past and future moderation decisions based on user feedback.
So you are denying South Sudan has a right to exist?
maybe stop harbouring terrorists and you won’t get bombed by israel pre-emptive strikes??
i have no love for these terrorists but if they are all gathered at one place…i can deal with the diplomatic fallout later.
Israel is the terrorist. They should go back to Germany and stop stealing Arab lands and this would all be over tomorrow.
Huh, I wonder why all the Jews left Germany in the first place…
last i checked arabs have been stealing lands from each other, including jewish lands.
if you wanna call jewish people thieves,maybe ensure the arabs aren’t thieves themselves.
When was the last you checked, during the Ottoman fucking Empire?
what does it fucking matter to you?
Damn, and here I thought that was a clever retort lol
fuck if i care.
Cool
Iran should definitely stop harbouring terrorism. SO SHOULD FUCKING ISRAEL.
if you meant hamas,they are in gaza not israel unless these hamas terrorists managed to dig a hole to israel.
No I mean Israel. Israel is a sponsor of terrorism. In the Occupied Territories, the IDF and the Israeli state are continuously aiding and abetting radical settler militias in terrorizing the indigenous population, like their terrorist forefathers in the Irgun in the 1940s. In Gaza, the IDF itself is employing mass terror tactics against the population in service of ethnic cleansing. In Lebanon, the Mossad employed terror tactics with the mass detonation of battery-operated devices a couple of weeks ago. They are also currently employing mass terror tactics against the Lebanese population. They have also engaged in extra-judicial assassinations of political figures, another terror tactic. Israel is a major source of terror and destabilization in the Middle East. They should fucking stop.
gee,i wonder who attacked israel and called for the destruction of israel when they decided to proclaim independence??
who was it that decided to leave no stone unturned and ensure something something from the river to the sea?
can’t really blame the jewish people for being jittery after experiencing ww2.
wanna stablise middle east??? maybe stop calling for the genocide of the jewish state,her people and stop wanting to something something river to the sea.
I called for the end of Israeli state terror and you name that a call for genociding jews. That’s batshit insane and paranoid buddy. (By the way, you can’t “genocide a state”, that’s bullshit.)
And quit it with the zionist apologia. None of the “ooo who did that 70 years ago” matters, this is the post-Oslo world, when the PLO/PA has formally accepted Israel’s right to exist, all while Israel colonizes their lands in clear violation of their own signed agreements. Save it for evangelical fundamentalist bootlickers and impressionable young diaspora kids who haven’t been deprogrammed yet.
can’t read well can you?
everyone arbitrary decides how far back in time they get to use to justify their genocidal action,hamas,plo,pla and whichever islamic terrorists sees fit to use.
then we have the idiots chiming in to regurgitate the islamic propaganda and rant about zionists this and zionists that.
mofo,if you want middle east to be at peace,end hamas,their supporters and the rest of the Islamic terrorist organizations.
saudi arabia and israel were on the cusp of normalizing relations until Oct 7th where hamas terrorists decides to do what they do best and today we have people like you blaming israel for anything and everything. if israel is such a terror state,i am pretty sure it wouldn’t have survived until today and prosper unlike gaza with their terrorist tendencies and supporters.
Get off your nationalist garrison mentality and you’ll immediately see that I’m not blaming Israel for everything. I specifically started by saying that “Iran should definitely stop harbouring terrorism”. Literally my very first fucking sentence in this interaction. I have no hesitation to also label Hezbollah and Hamas as despicable terrorists as well. Fuck. Them.
What I am also doing is blaming Israel for what Israel does, something that you are having trouble computing because you’re trapped in an “us and them” knuckle-dragging mentality. Super conveniently for your terror narrative, the ONE accusation that you don’t even mention is my very FIRST one: that Israel is aiding and abetting terrorism by radical settler militias against the indigenous population of the West Bank. That alone is enough to 100% condemn Israel as a state sponsor of terror.
We have an actual A/B testing scenario here, a perfect natural experiment. The West Bank is what “Palestine without Hamas” looks like. And damningly for kahanist bootlickers “Palestine without Hamas” is an apartheid state/bantustan where the Israeli state apparatus has banalized the extreme degradation, oppression, murder and dehumanization of 2 million people.
blag blah blah,israel bad,hamas bad but lets focus on israel and remeber hamas isnt part of palestine but lump israel and the zionist together.
mofo,there are people in Israel that doesn’t support the settlers doing their shit on the west bank or bibi using Oct 7th as an excuse to go all out.
you conveniently lump all israel and zionist together and then back tracked so fast separating hamas and palestine when being pointed out for your bias.
wanna fuck bibi and those settlers,i am all for it,be specific instead of lumping israel and the rest of the zionists as one and then proceeds to separate hamas,their supporters from the palestinians.
i swear,you people cannot even be consistent with your propaganda and fuckery.
What the fuck are you even talking about? What is Bibi, some pariah, some exception? In the 21st century, there are more years where Netanyahu has been PM of Israel than there are when he wasn’t. Before him it was Ariel fucking Sharon. For the vast majority of time since Oslo, it’s been either Likud or some Likud splinter in power. The basic outlines of the original Likud program are by now Israel’s official policy. Fuck, they have been building “facts on the ground” for 30 years. The facts on the ground are now just the FACTS. Israel took a dump on Oslo, and its shit stinks.
And yea I know that other types of Zionism exist, and that “not all Zionists” are rabid genocidal lunatics. But for the last 30 years, the Israeli Right has DOMINATED what it means to be a zionist. The Sharon-Netanyahu style of Zionism, is the really existing Zionism that is in POWER. And fuck no, I don’t need to be doing the “not all Israelis” dance, not any more than when the Greek government does shit. When Modi sends assassination squads to kill Sikhs in Canada, we don’t say “not all Indians”, we condemn Indian sponsorship of terror. I’m not going to give Israeli terrorism a pass just because it’s Israeli. ISRAEL IS NOT SPECIAL. Israeli shit smells just as bad as Greek shit or Turkish shit or Lebanese shit.
That’s why I’m saying that Israel the country, is a sponsor of settler terrorism. The country’s army protects them. The country’s government arms them and leaves them unpunished. The country’s services over time legalize their land grabs and offer them amenities. THIS IS WHAT STATE SPONSORSHIP OF TERROR LOOKS LIKE. If you can’t wrap your head around the fact that this does not constitute a condemnation of every israeli out there, or worse of every jew out there, that’s a You problem. And if your feefees about what Zionism should be are hurt by the reality of what Really Existing Zionism actually does are hurt, too bad for your feefees.
so when hamas commits acts of terror,state sponsorship from palestine and her people or they get a pass because,palestine?
Hamas is the government of Gaza. So yes, when they order the killing of some random civilians in Tel Aviv’s mass transit, that’s literally state terrorism, with the only qualifier that Gaza is a quasi-state, so I guess “quasi-state sponsored terrorism”? But yes, that’s it. The quasi-state of Gaza is condemnable for its support of terrorism. The state of Israel is condemnable for its support of terrorism.
I don’t get why you keep repeating on the “and the people” bit. I clearly said above that condemning Israeli state terrorism is not a condemnation of every Israeli. Similarly, condemning Hamas terrorism is not a condemnation of every Gazan.
So there you have my position clear as day. What’s yours? Do you condemn Israel for its systematic sponsorship of terrorism?
do you condemn palestine for its systematic sponsorship of terrorism?? no need for theatrics or mincing words like quasi this or quasi that.
if you are condeming state sponsorships of terrorism,be consistent and make your stance clear, don’t mince words.
and yes,state sponsorships of terrorism is to be condemned both on israel and palestine. do not portray any one party as innocent or victim,none of them are. jewish settlers occupying land illegally in west bank should be removed and laws set in place to prevent such illegal settlements.
if you want to put the spotlight on israel for their terrorism,do not forget palestine,iran and their supporters,each one of them are equally deserving of it.
now,i’ll state is clearly for you,i condemn israel state sponsorship of terror,DO YOU CONDEMN PALESTINE OF STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM? and try not to mince your words this time.
If you recognize Palestine as a sovereign state and therefore the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza as illegal, sure I’ll condemn Palestinian sponsorship of terrorism. If not, there is nothing to condemn right? There can’t be state sponsored terrorism by an entity that is not a state. Logic.
And for the record, I’m unequivocally condemning Iran and Hezbollah and the Houthis for their terrorism.
Still waiting on an answer to my question, buddy. Israeli policy of sponsorship of terror. Do you condemn Israel for it.
bad reading comprehension.
i already stated clearly i condem israel’s state sponsored terrorism. not only that,i stated clearly jewish settlers who are illegally occupying the west bank should be removed and laws be put in place to remove them and prevent it from happening again.
there is no ifs regarding palestine as a state,it is recognized by the UN. hamas is an extension of that state.
now,be clear and stop putting caveats and conditions. DO YOU CONDEM PALESTINE OF STATE SPONSORED TERRORISM???
Sure buddy. Thanks for the clarification.
Edit: only Palestine is not a state. There is the PA and there might be something to actually condemn about a “martyrs fund” but that’s about it. And Hamas is obviously not controlled in any way by the PA. On the other hand, Israel is a regional superpower with a victim compelx and a genocidal army. In my list of dangerous maniacs, the Israeli state, its army and intelligence services are way way higher than the …PA. But regardless. Good to hear a Zionist condemn Israel for state sponsored terror. Have a nice evening.
lol, can’t condemn palestine state terrorism and putting caveats in place to avoid condemnation while asking others to condemn israel.
fucking hypocrisy its finest. you,like many other terrorist apologists, just simply cannot keep your stance consistent and wriggle your way out of making your stance clear while spreading hate and islamic propaganda. good to see i have proven you to be one.
palestine is a state,recognised by at least 100 over UN members. their state sponsored terrorism,be it through hamas or plo or pla is still state sponsored terrorism. if people like you want to liken israel as a terrorist state,then palestine is one as well.
next time,be clear you are a terrorist apologist,spreading israel hate and islamic propaganda while excusing hamas/palestine terrorists of their actions and promoting genocide.
Unhinged much?
nah, can’t really be unhinged when i deal with liars and hypocrites much less terrorist sympathisers. 😀
So I’m guessing you would’ve been against the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising? Zionists do tend to have a lot in common with Nazis so I shouldn’t be too surprised…
you shouldn’t be surprised,hamas terrorists and their supporters have alot in common with the nazis as well.
i guess both sides learned well from the nazis.
Did you miss the part where they said to save it? Nobody here is going to ever read this exchange and change their mind to agree with you. This isn’t reddit or Facebook
did you miss the part where i just don’t give a fuck??
did you expect these idiots to change my mind and agree with them??
this isn’t facebook/reddit or you are that oblivious?
god damn left wing nutjobs,i swear they make the right wing nutjobs look sane.
The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he’s not Palestinian.
You again are conflating Zionism with Judaism, which are 2 very different things. Israel has never represented all Jewish people and never will, nor are it’s actions done to benefit all Jewish people. The conflation is itself antisemitic. Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized (see 29:01) by Zionism during its history.
Origins of Zionism
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe. Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources. That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it. Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
>Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers. > The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat. > An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades. This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice. - The
AKA literally state-sponsored terrorism. Or were those babies terrorists too?
“I’m sorry but we just can’t not genocide. Anyone trying to stop us from genociding is anti-Semitic and will also need to be genocided. It just cannot be helped.”
That’s you.
Palestine state sponsored terrorism,do you condemn it or not??
anything else is just you being a terrorist sympathiser.
So you recognize that Palestine is a state?
do you condemn Palestine’s state sponsored terrorism??
yes or no?
anything else is just hogwash and terrorist sympathies.
I don’t condemn resistance against illegal occupation. By all means necessary, in accordance with multiple UN resolutions.
Now you answer the question.
then i support israel in whatever they are doing to eliminate terrorists,including occupying lands where it can be used by said terrorists. whatever means necessary,whether it’s in accordance to UN resolution or not.
Its just as legal as israel’s attacks. Not that I think those are legal.
They’re not at all comparable. Iran’s missile’s killed one person, a Palestinian man but were not targeting civilians.
This is in retaliation for Israel’s full year of genocide, terrorism and attacks on its neighbours.
Israel uses bunker busters, and the most cruel and gruesome bombs dropped directly on refugee camps, hospitals, schools, humanitarian aid vans, journalist’s homes.
So your saying that one is more legal than the other. Nonsense.
Edit: Its funny how many people confuse their personal sense of morality for legal and illegal.
By funny I’m saying pathetic.
You’re making an argument for legitimacy not legality. All of the bombing that all of the parties have been doing is illegal under a strict reading of international law in that war is generally not allowed unless approved by some UN resolution.
Yes.
Honestly, considering the whole “land invasion of Lebanon” thing, I’d even say it was gentle.
well, there’s a first time for everything. i just agreed the first time with an Iranian conservative.
Very legal, very cool
Very demeure very mindful
Nope. Just as illegal as Israel’s.