Iran-US war latest: Swiss peace talks abruptly cancelled after Trump boasts of Tehran’s ‘unconditional surrender’ (www.independent.co.uk)
from stepan@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 05:35
https://lemmy.ca/post/66639095

#world

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Wrongdoer2@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 05:42 next collapse

Hahahahahahahaha fucking hell

Big_Boss_77@fedinsfw.app on 19 Jun 05:51 next collapse

You keep using that word…I do not think it means what you think it means.

Ghyste@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 06:02 next collapse

Fucking idiot.

adam_y@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 06:04 next collapse

I’d unconditionally surrender if I had to change nothing and receive 300 billion.

Mihies@programming.dev on 19 Jun 06:10 next collapse

The remaining Orange’s free few brain cells did an unconditional surrender.

betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 06:34 next collapse

Really makes you feel for the attempted assassins, they had a tough marksmanship challenge when trying to liberate those cells.

Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 12:43 collapse

His sphincter unconditionally surrendered a decade ago

Miller@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 06:45 next collapse

Trump boasts of Tehran’s [start mumble] acceptance of our [end mumble] ‘unconditional surrender’

UncleArthur@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 07:01 next collapse

This is the terrifying bit to me, FTA:

In his latest interview, Trump told Axios that there are “no limits” to his power and the peace deal is “probably is unconditional surrender” of Iran.

Trump was asked what the conflict had taught him about the limits of his power. Trump replied: “I haven’t learned that lesson yet. I know there are, but there are no limits.”

HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club on 19 Jun 12:55 next collapse

Yeah. He is either incredibly delusional about what is going on or his administration is really great at keeping him in the dark.

Pringles@sopuli.xyz on 19 Jun 14:37 next collapse

It would be incredibly sad if it didn’t have such widespread consequences. He always was a dumb narcissist, but he really is deteriorating mentally quickly in the past year, and he never was that bright to begin with. He should be in an elderly home, not the oval office.

anomnom@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 14:40 next collapse

He keeps himself in the dark, because his brain doesn’t work.

Both because of dementia and because of life long narcissism at least.

teyrnon@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 14:57 collapse

He is a dishonest piece of shit, so all of these can be true.

Bogus007@lemmy.zip on 19 Jun 13:04 next collapse

Sounds a bit like this Austrian wannabe painter. He also thought that there is no limit.

loutr@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 17:34 collapse

I know there are, but there are no limits.

The fuck does that mean

MrSulu@lemmy.ml on 19 Jun 07:08 next collapse

He single handedly save the US from the jaws of success

Spacehooks@reddthat.com on 19 Jun 11:31 collapse

In so many ways.

JustJack23@slrpnk.net on 19 Jun 07:08 next collapse

To avoid this the next version of the memorandum of understanding must have a specific clause highlighting that Trump is a little bitch.

redsand@infosec.pub on 19 Jun 07:22 next collapse

Not like Israel was ever going to get on board anyway. Deal was dead from day 1. Same pump n dump every week

Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz on 19 Jun 09:28 collapse

America holds the leash; Israel depends on America’s diplomatic, military, and financial support to continue existing. Every time a US president has tugged at the leash, Israel has come to heel.

Serinus@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 10:42 next collapse

This is the smallest president we’ve ever had.

ITGuyLevi@programming.dev on 19 Jun 12:34 collapse

Plus he is 100% compromised, there is no way they don’t have blackmail on him. Given his (the shitbirds) history, both recent and ancient, I wonder what type of blackmail would actually change the minds of his supporters or convince the US to actually pursue justice on his stained ass.

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 13:24 next collapse

Epstein was literally an Israeli political operative. They know where every single body is buried.

Serinus@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:05 collapse

Honestly I think the reason Russia has a bit less hold is that the pee tape (presuming 14 year olds or so) simply doesn’t matter as much as it once did.

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 13:23 next collapse

America may hold Israel’s leash, but AIPAC holds the GOPs balls in a vice.

Remember, Trump is signing this surrender document because he sees this as the least damaging option politically.Now he’s going to have to weigh the damage of a full scale war with Iran against the damage of angering one of the most powerful political groups in America.

AIPAC have always played both sides; they’re with the GOP right now because the GOP offered full throated support of their genocide in Gaza, while the Dems only offered lukewarm support. But they’ll gladly flip to being all in on the Dems, with whom they still have very close ties, if that’s what it takes to get Trump out of power. Either that or they’ll engineer a Never-Trumper coup within the GOP. Or both.

And that’s before we even consider that Israel certainly has all the real dirt on Epstein.

Controlling Israel is easy. Controlling AIPAC is going to be the biggest political bloodbath of our lifetimes.

mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Jun 13:42 next collapse

The so called lukewarm support

During Biden

70% of all structures in Gaza were damaged or destroyed
92% of all housing units destroyed or damaged 88% of school buildings were damaged or destroyed
80% of key water, sanitation, and hygiene (WASH) facilities
Only 16 out of 36 hospitals were partially functioning, facing critical shortages of fuel, medicine, and clean water.
75% of agricultural land, including orchards and greenhouses, was damaged or destroyed

edit: the sources

news.un.org/en/story/2025/01/1158741

ap.org/…/gaza-is-in-ruins-after-israels-yearlong-…

dezeen.com/…/gaza-housing-92-per-cent-destroyed-d…

unosat.org/products/4130

reliefweb.int/…/devastating-lack-shelter-exacerba…

reliefweb.int/…/verification-damages-schools-base…

reliefweb.int/…/gaza-destroying-agricultural-land…

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 15:15 collapse

Yes, exactly. But they also wrung their hands about it and cried some crocodile tears in public, which was enough to get AIPAC to fully side with the GOP.

mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Jun 15:21 collapse

My issue is the word lukewarm. It was not lukewarm in fact it was worse during Biden then during Trump. Both are equally responsible for the genocide regardless.

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 16:07 collapse

The notion that Biden more strongly supported Isreal’s genocide than Trump has is ludicrous. And that’s not a defence of Biden, it’s just a simple fact. It’s like pointing out that John Wayne Gacy killed more people than Ted Bundy. You’re still allowed to consider both of them despicable monsters.

And yes, they’re both equally responsible, but I never mentioned responsibility, did I? The point was always about who AIPAC wanted to hitch their wagon to, not who actually did what harm.

mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Jun 16:28 collapse

I literally gave you the data showing that Biden is worse. Biden lied about seeking a cease fire blamed Hamas for it when it was Israel who kept refusing to accept and add new terms. The term lukewarm is ridiculous whatever you apply it to Biden or Trump.

Since July, all of the sources I have spoken to confirmed that Hamas had accepted Biden’s ceasefire proposal that was endorsed by the UN Security Council, which is premised on an 18-weeks long ceasefire divided into three phases, at the end of which there would be a permanent end to the Gaza war after all hostages have been released. The same sources, as well as Israeli media, and the Egyptian mediators have consistently blamed Netanyahu for obstructing the talks and refusing to end the war. Even in the latest ongoing round of negotiations, senior Israeli security officials are sounding the alarm that their Prime Minister is still sabotaging the talks. Yet, the White House keeps insisting that Hamas is “the obstacle.”

internationalpolicy.org/…/the-biden-administratio…

I am tired about all the talk about Aipac too. Aipac is funded by Americans , shitty American Politicians willfully accepted being funded by them and stupid American willfully voted for them for decades

theacharnian@lemmy.ca on 19 Jun 16:28 collapse

I think you’re underestimating the extent to which if the US establishment decides AIPAC is a problem for its own interests they can destroy its influence overnight. Especially with weakened democratic norms and checks and balances, no group, no matter how well connected can be safe from an unhinged executive acting in the name of “saving the country”. If AIPAC becomes a problem to them, if it no longer serves them, they will deal with it. Similar to how whoever doesn’t play nice with Putin meets various kinds of windows.

It is not an accident that a part of the MAGAsphere has already pivoted against Israel. And remember that the fascists have no actual solutions to anything, just an infinite progression of “purification”. They would have zero qualms about going full antisemite within the US if it suited them. And when that time comes, the Zionists will experience the actual difference between antisemitism and antizionism in practice.

redsand@infosec.pub on 19 Jun 16:47 collapse

Oh. You were serious. Let me laugh harder. HAHAHAHAHA!

Israel led a successful campaign to capture political assets through a combination of blackmail, political lobbying (it’s not only AIPAC), spying through government software they sell and decades of interweaving into US defense.

The 80 year old man has the leash tied on and can’t let go

ms_lane@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 08:09 next collapse

Tehran Surrender

Wrong.

Unconditional

Also wrong.

Conditional US Surrender

There it is.

teyrnon@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 14:48 collapse

He promised unconditional surrender, the media is saying he did not deliver that, and he looks like a bitch, which he is, and so now is just guiding his sheep and trolls and thralls to pretend he won so he doesn’t look like a bitch.

He’s not fooling anyone outside the flock though. President dickhead is a bitch. He’s Israel’s bitch.

Akasazh@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 08:33 next collapse

There weren’t any conditions left after you fulfilled them all…

Signtist@bookwyr.me on 19 Jun 11:16 collapse

I got a free banana from the store! All I had to do was give them $10 first!

Akasazh@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 11:49 collapse

I mean what can a banana cost?

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 13:14 next collapse

For the people who didn’t read the article - apparently everyone in this thread - the reason for the postponement is not Trump’s comments, despite how the headline makes it sound.

Iran are smart enough to let Trump mouth off. What killed the talks is that Israel killed a bunch more people in Lebanon today.

This was inevitable. Iran wants a muzzled Israel as a condition of the war ending. Israel doesn’t want the war to end with anything less than the total destruction of Iran (they certainly don’t want a capitulation that actually leaves Iran stronger). So Israel are going to deliberately break the ceasefire until one of three things happens;

  1. Iran stops calling them on it (there is zero evidence that this will happen).
  2. Trump gives up on peace and commits to a full scale invasion.
  3. Trump finds a way to make Israel do what he tells them.

As I’ve noted elsewhere, this war isn’t remotely close to over. US vs Iran was the pre-show. Defeating AIPAC’s iron grip on US politics is the main event.

Agent641@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 13:50 next collapse

A forever war, then?

stringere@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 14:46 next collapse

We have ways been at war with Eastasia.

dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Jun 16:17 collapse

West Asia

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 15:13 collapse

Currently, based on public statements from him and Vance, it actually looks like Trump thinks a fight with AIPAC is more winnable than a fight with the global oil market. Both he and Vance have been pretty openly threatening Israel. Whether they’ll have the spine to put some steel in those threats is to be seen, but that seems to be the direction they’re leaning, at least for now.

badgermurphy@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:41 collapse

I had thought all this time that he and others had never even publicly entertained the idea of breaking with Israel on policy due to a combination of a steady stream of bribes and a dossier of compromising information on many prominent figures with the implicit threat of intentional leak.

I guess we might be about to see if that was true!

ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net on 19 Jun 14:12 next collapse

My bet is on 1. I don’t see a way for 3 to happen and 1 is a better outcome for Iran than 2.

It makes sense for Iran to sacrifice Lebanon now and use their control over the strait to pressure other countries to stop supporting Israel. They will not defeat Israel now but if this deal is implemented they have a chance to do it in the future.

teyrnon@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 14:45 next collapse

Nah, it’s forever war. That is the reason for this, not the stated ones, Israel is using it’s epstein blackmail to keep war going for domestic political purposes. War is fun when you have overwhelming technological superiority and unlimited money.

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 15:11 collapse

That’s certainly Israel’s goal.

That said, Trump and Vance have now both progressed to openly threatening Israel in public, which suggests that either Israel haven’t fully played their hand yet, aren’t holding as much as we think, or have too much to lose from any blackmail material getting out in the open. Keep in mind that Epstein being an Israeli political operative cuts both ways; I’m sure there’s a lot in those files that could seriously damage Israel if it got out. If it were publicly known that they were, say, trafficking children for political favour with US politicians, that’s the sort of thing that could be really bad for them. Not saying that happened, but we’ve not got much reason to believe it didn’t at this point.

If Israel had enough usable blackmail on Trump and his crew to get their way here, I think we’d already be two months into an invasion, not discussing US surrender. Why wait this long to use it if you have it?

teyrnon@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 15:25 collapse

Nah, Israel has the usuable blackmail, not just epstein stuff either to be sure. Invading Iran was never feasible, it would seriously take a million troops even for a half assed iraq style invasion, and Iran has mountains, and is 5x the size.

Israel doesn’t actually care about Iran, they are a foil for their politicians. They know they’ve been lying about them for decades, and while they do want to hurt them, that is not their reason, forever war for domestic political purposes is.

This will not end, even when it seems like it ended, it will keep on, this is forever war, and Israel is going to turn lenanon into a series of ghettos.

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 16:04 next collapse

Invading Iran was never feasible, it would seriously take a million troops even for a half assed iraq style invasion, and Iran has mountains, and is 5x the size.

You’re correct, but I think what you’re missing is that this has nothing to do with the political calculus currently taking place in the White House. If they were capable of realistically assessing military threats they wouldn’t have been blindsided by Iran’s ability to strike at their military bases or by the closure of the strait. Trump truly believes that the power of the US military is infinite. What’s holding him back from an invasion isn’t a fear of losing, it’s a fear of the political cost of being seen to sign up the US to another decades long occupation.

Israel cares very much about Iran, because Iran is still a serious threat to them. They can have their forever war without Iran in the picture, they’ve got an almost unlimited supply of local adversaries to pick fights with. But Iran is currently by far the most dangerous of those allies to Israel, at least in Israel’s estimation.

teyrnon@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 16:13 collapse

I was going to take issue with the calculus term you used, but as I believe calculus is measuring the area of probability curves, it might fit. The probability curve of fucking children on tape being released.

That said, Iran is not a real threat to Israel and we all know it. Iran can’t do shit to Israel, that has overwhelming advantage. Any suggestion to the contrary is Israel playing their sheep.

To get back to the calculus, it has nothing to do with winning or stopping Iran from whatever. Why anyone would take them at their word at this point is beyond me, not the least on this issue.

mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Jun 17:06 collapse

Israel do care about Iran. It want is fully destroyed. It thought arming some protesters and factions like the kurd would have created an civil war

teyrnon@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 17:38 collapse

No, they didn’t. They have betrayed the kurds a number of times, and knew they wouldn’t trust them, rightly so.

You are confusing what the Israelis say they are doing with what they are actually doing.

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 15:05 collapse

Hard disagree. Right now I give 1 less than about a 5% chance. Iran have repeatedly demonstrated that they fully believe they have the US by the balls (they’re right). And Iran stakes a lot of their regional power on their control over groups like Hezbollah. Abandoning one of them would be a huge blow. They’re not going to resort to that unless they get desperate, and currently they’re as far from desperate as they could possibly be. They have no reason to back down on this and plenty to lose by doing so. The only way that math changes is if Trump pulls out some crazy left field move to radically reshape the power balance. I don’t think he’s capable of that.

ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net on 19 Jun 16:17 collapse

So what do you think will happen? The strait is closed permanently?

badgermurphy@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 16:46 collapse

Not the OP, but I think this issue will continue to rise in temperature until it is more heavily influential on US domestic politics. I believe at some point, support of Israel on these recent events will become politically suicidal, and slowly the compromised politicians rendered unable to break with Israel will get drummed out of office by primary or normal election.

Then, US will officially drop support and the math in the middle east gets a lot less complex for them.

ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net on 19 Jun 16:53 collapse

This would take many years. I don’t think Trump or Lebanon can wait that long, he seams pretty desperate. We already know he’s unable to pressure Israel so his only option is to pressure Iran by doing something stupid. I really home Iran will take the huge win they already got and pass on Lebanon for now. The other options are pretty terrible for everyone.

badgermurphy@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 17:36 collapse

I just dont see any useful results before then. For practically my whole life, the situation in the Middle-east has been unstable. It seems to me that the reason for this is because Israel has continually agitated its neighbors from behind a metaphorical force field provided by their larger international allies. The “force field” seems completely unearned, and is the result of diabolical lobbying/bribery and blackmail of powerful foreign politicians in the USA and elsewhere.

Until the circumstances change, I dont see a ton of reason to expect the conditions to, either. Moves will be made as always, but I expect more of this ineffectual war-play: retreat from hill today, re-take same hill tomorrow, repeat forever. All the while the waste and corruption in the military operations continue to flow.

I too hope for a return to prosperity for the Iranian people that I have seen from the 1970s and before, but I dont see that happening until the unconditional military pact with Israel starts getting some conditions.

tired_n_bored@lemmy.world on 19 Jun 14:51 next collapse

Stupid headlines

Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 15:00 collapse

Annoyingly, it’s technically accurate, but extremely misleading.

If I say my friend died after eating at Arby’s, while neglecting to mention the part where he went to a bar, got stinking drunk and wrapped his car around a tree, the entire statement is technically true. Those events did happen, in that order. He certainly didn’t die before eating at Arby’s. But there’s an implied cause and effect that has nothing to do with the reality.

Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Jun 17:49 collapse

The fortune teller gave me some grim news, she said that I’m going to die after eating at Arby’s 8(. I haven’t been to one in decades but now I’ll never go back for sure.

HubertManne@piefed.social on 19 Jun 16:37 next collapse
  1. trump declares mission accomplished and invades cuba so he can feel stronk.
mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Jun 17:02 collapse

4 - like in 2006. Hezbollah force israel to retreat

teyrnon@sh.itjust.works on 19 Jun 14:43 next collapse

I hate to be right, but this deal being bullshit was the easiest call in the world.

com@mander.xyz on 19 Jun 17:01 collapse

What can be done about these terrible click-bait “news” headlines? It’s just awful. A high school newspaper has more accurate headlines. Personally, I’d like to see news organizations that do this banned from being shared here if the poster uses the canned spam title with the post.

Maybe there is a news instance that doesn’t allow this. I’ll be outside shouting at clouds.