No one should be forced to fuck them, not even themselves.
SorryImLate@piefed.social
on 03 Jun 21:59
nextcollapse
Uh, what? No-one but you mentioned politics or religion.
Pakistan has a serious problem with rape culture, which is far worse for Pakistani women than for tourists.
Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Jun 22:13
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this happened in 2021, weird to post it today though right?
edit: it was actually in 2020, crazy how so many ājournalistsā are now intrigued about a specific case in Pakistan.
OpenStars@piefed.social
on 03 Jun 22:27
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There is new information though? As another comment to this OP explains:
ā¦2021, when the original verdict was made. The Daily Mail update here is just saying that the appeal failed and the death sentence is confirmed.
I donāt know the reasoning behind OPās posting it now, but it seems a legitimate issue to be aware of. Especially if the police are blaming the woman for not knowing that it was a bad area to be in, despite all the precautions taken.
Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 04 Jun 00:40
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youre right, the daily mail is acting in good faith
curbstickle@anarchist.nexus
on 04 Jun 01:20
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SorryImLate@piefed.social
on 04 Jun 04:20
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No, it isnāt. However this event lead to discussion and protests about the problem in Pakistan. The international media attention is partly why - local society may judge a local woman but international society was rightfully horrified, including about the victim blaming rhetoric from the police.
Cultural change is a slow process and requires some form of pressure, but maybe the media coverage and the incredibly harsh judgement was enough for some men to rethink and not hurt women, and for more women to step forward when they are hurt. So hate the Daily Mail if you want but please donāt be dismissive of such an important topic.
And yet no one is calling out KSA, Qatar, UAE, USA, Germany...
SorryImLate@piefed.social
on 04 Jun 04:39
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Please stop with the what-aboutism. The reporting is on a particular event that involved a tourist, so the relevant country is being highlighted. In the same way, France was highlighted regarding the poor French woman whose husband drugged her and organised her rapes. If a similar event occurred in another country, they would be in focus. Talkng about the issue in the abstract is unfortunately rarely a catalyst for change.
The Daily Mail is sensationalist, but they didnāt make this up
Ya ok but there are probably 100 other incidents of gang rape at the same time that they completely ignored because the perpetrator werent brownā¦ those stories didnt fit their agenda I guess
SorryImLate@piefed.social
on 03 Jun 21:54
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The BBC article is from 2021, when the original verdict was made. The Daily Mail update here is just saying that the appeal failed and the death sentence is confirmed.
Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz
on 03 Jun 21:57
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It also led to mass protests across Pakistan, after a policeman questioned why the woman had been out late on her own.
The day after the attack, a senior police official in Lahore, Umer Sheikh, appeared in front of the media and implied the woman was partly to blame.
He questioned why she had not taken a busier road, given that she was alone with her young children.
Man what a terrible take. Her car broke down, she had the doors locked, and they broke the windows and dragged her out before raping her at gunpoint. She was also a foreign tourist, and canāt be expected to know all the good/bad parts of town imo.
VitoRobles@lemmy.today
on 04 Jun 00:22
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And thatās why all those victim blamers need to punished.
kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 04 Jun 02:05
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Youāre wrong, because the only reason I havenāt called the guy youāre responding to ret*rded is out of respect for the people who might read this comment.
sonofearth@lemmy.world
on 04 Jun 04:40
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Tge entire Indian subcontinent is unsafe for women w/o a good justice system. Marital rape is still legal in India.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
on 04 Jun 04:49
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The site is called Daily Rag for a reason. Theyāve always been running sensationalist and racist stories since its inception:
āThere landed yesterday at Southampton from the transport Cheshire over 600 so-called refugees, their passages having been paid out of the Lord Mayorās Fund. . .There was scarce a hundred of them that had, by right, deserved such help, and these were the Englishmen of the party. The rest were Jews. . .They fought and jostled for the foremost places at the gangways. . .When the Relief Committee passed by they hid their gold and fawned and whined, and, in broken English, asked for money for their train fare.ā
Daily Mail, February 3, 1900
Because anyone that talks about how Islam countries actually are and act is āislamiphobeicā. Youāre instantly accused of being racist as a shitty defense for pointing out facts. Atheist myself and I think all religions are pieces of shit, but Islam as practiced in modern times is factually probably one of the worst religions. People of all religions do horrible things, but the amount of cruelty, murder, and rape under the guise of Sharia law is absolutely unparalleled in the modern world.
no_name_dev_from_hell@programming.dev
on 04 Jun 14:49
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Average enlightened Westerner. Youāre probably posting this from a taken land in the US, a slave owning setller colonial state built on the blood of at least 150 million true americans.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world
on 04 Jun 18:09
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i mean iām not OP but to further your point i live in california and the entire town i live in used to be a [not saying the tribe] graveyard. Every time they zone an area for new houses the tribe comes out, searches the land, and rehomes the artifacts.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 04 Jun 12:03
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Yeah.
The relentless upvoting of tabloids may be my biggest issue with Lemmy. Information hygiene here is terrible, and the users donāt seem to care.
One time, calling this out, the OP of a news post responded that they didnāt care an article was fake. It was upvoted to the front page and never got removed.
bigmamoth@lemmy.world
on 04 Jun 06:18
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We should do the same. No place for ppl like that in any civile society. Either death sentence or castration plus prison
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 04 Jun 09:32
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Could just have a death sentence be only passed when thereās beyond doubt of guilt and have it approved by the head of state
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 04 Jun 09:43
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Arenāt all conviction in US beyond doubt likeā¦ by definition? And there are always reviews and appeals and request for clemency to heads of states. And innocent people were executed many many times.
Isnāt all this common knowledge by now?
bigmamoth@lemmy.world
on 04 Jun 11:03
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At some point saying that we ard only sure at 99.99% and not 100% so we fan t do anything about it is utterly ridiculous. No system is perfect and yet u use that argument at the age of cctv dna test and so on
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 04 Jun 11:39
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You can do plenty of things but in a civilized country we tend not to punish people in brutal ways just to get some satisfaction. We isolate them, make sure they canāt hurt anyone and try to rehabilitate them.
And we do this, among other things, because systems are not perfect and doing irreversible harm to people is problematic. Even with CCTV and DNA tests.
bigmamoth@lemmy.world
on 04 Jun 11:58
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Doing irrevserible harm to ppl is problematic āļøš¤
Pls, no country on earth has the ressource to rehabilitate every criminal nor they should try.
U cant just look me in the eyes and say to me yeah he was a neo nazi that killed 20 ppl in a place of cult but have you thinking about his rehabilitation and how horrible you will be if you think it will be a net positive for society if we kill him ?
For context, Iām thinking more of a recent murder case that happened in the UK. Basically a sikh guy stabbed a British student, then called the police on him accusing him of racism. Police arrived and handcuffed the dying student as he bled out, dying on the ground in handcuffs. The Sikhās family were complicit
Obviously, a whole myriad of immigration tension has arisen again (happened with the southport stabbings also) and people are rioting.
I think if we publicly executed people who carried out these atrocities, it would quench the general publicās bloodthirst and restore order, hopefully reducing hate crimes on the innocent immigrants.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 04 Jun 13:14
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Public executionsā¦ yeah, that would bring back the good times for sure.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 04 Jun 13:20
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Public execution. They hanged a guy from a tree and took a nice group photo. They would then make nice postcards out of them and sent out to family. Really brings back the community together. Especially if the criminal is of a different race. The history showed us that there are no risk of discrimination or abuse here. Justice system should do what the mod desires. We could call itā¦ mob justice.
Why do americans always bring race into things? A guilty person is guilty, regardless of race
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 04 Jun 14:55
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Iām not American but you said that executing a sikh guy for killing a British student (who was actually Polish) to stop riots would be a good idea. You specifically mentioned races of the involved and talked about immigration tensions. But yes, I started talking about race out of nowhereā¦
Too much exposure to American media is making you act like one and constantly harp on about the USA
was abducted and lynched in Mississippi in 1955 after being accused of offending a white woman,
Thatās quite a step away from saying āwe should execute murderersā to suddenly jumping to Emmett Till
A whole witch-hunt also happened when James Bulger was murdered. Itās not always race related. Offending white people is not always a crime, and never a capital offence.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 04 Jun 17:12
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I know itās not the same thing as Emmett Till but itās funny that in a 2026 people still think that murdering people to appease racist mobs is a good idea.
Could just have a death sentence be only passed when thereās beyond doubt of guilt
This is the reason civil societies have mostly done away with the death penalty, simply because we cannot ever be 100% we have the guilty people. We like to think the court systems are infallible, but they sure arent.
Iād say itās probably the biggest argument against the death penalty tbh. But then, at the same time, innocent people have died serving life sentences also.
We have litteral tool that doesnāt let any doubt regarding that matter. It s such a terrible bad argument that it never applied in any other situation.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 04 Jun 11:41
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āāāA subsequent investigation revealed that Mr Scott had
become implicated as a result of accidental contamination
of samples within the lab. The day before processing samples
from the alleged rape victim, the lab had handled a DNA
sample from Mr Scott, following a āspitting incidentā in Exeter,
UK. Unfortunately the disposable plastic plate used to analyse
this sample had been inadvertently reused in the rape case,
resulting in the misidentification.āāā
Not to mention corrupt cops and prosecutors.
Why the need to kill people? Why not just isolate them? Do you think itās actually more practical to kill them or itās just so you can feel better knowing they are dead?
Itās actually good that youāre uninformed. You can educate yourself and this may help you evolve your opinions beyond primitive ideas of justice like āeye for an eyeā.
(profiling is part of matching, you match DNA profiles, you donāt sequence the entire genome).
First one say judgment is longer yet doesnāt take into account the cos of prolonged incarceration anywhere. Just that the procedure is longer.
Second is a survey and a comparaison without any source regarding different place where a lot more factor are involved.
Thoses arent study but opinion pieces.
Try again.
Also I dont care about your view about eyes for eyes since death penalty can t never equal thoses. About Christchurch do u think his death will have as much value than every life he took ?
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net
on 04 Jun 13:07
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So you choose not to educate yourself. Sad but understandable.
No place for them in society as they were, but rehabilitation is always possible, always desired. There will be a place for them after rehabilitation.
We have to trust that system. If we donāt, then whatās the point of prisons in the first place? If nobody can ever change, then theyāll always just remain a threat and thereās no sense keeping everyone in prisons indefinitely. Either we believe they can rehabilitate or we should just kill everyone whoās ever unfit for society, I suppose, no?
Ceremonial killing, executions, are an antithesis to the concept of prisons, rehabilitation. Itās never just, if we have a belief that people can and will change.
Its only use would be to act as a scare of some sort, but a lifetime of forced life, contained in cells, always watched, always mistreated, never a chance for a dignified life, is way more of a scare than death. Death is easy. Death is quick. Itās merciful in comparison.
A temporary stay at a prison without the belief of anyone being able to rehabilitate, is just deferring and allowing further crimes and violence in future.
So we have to believe people can change. Because they can, and they do.
And if we hold that belief, killing is not only killing the misfit in question, today, but also any potential good deeds and meaningful life they mightāve lead after rehabilitation. Itās killing someone, in future, who deserves not to die.
I never understand people who advocate for temporary jail stints and death sentences at the same time. It never makes sense, itās irrational.
bigmamoth@lemmy.world
on 04 Jun 11:09
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Right, so you say some deserve the chance and some donāt. Who or what makes the call? I bet the Arab countries that lynch homosexuals for example, they think and reason the same as you. So their well-being isnāt your concern? Or do you consider yourself the better moral compass? Should you make all the calls then? Or do you simultaneously judge others making the same rationale, but with different principles/rules, and advocate for the very same thing but with yours? You are fine with the dissonance, then?
You think pedophile shouylkd be shot omg what horrible person you are im sure you think the same about homosexual.
Basically your argument.
Some crime are so horrible and against any possible once of humanity that yes they should deserve death.
I dont see any dissonance and u trying to make one by comparing me with some third world country is dishonest.
I mean, if I asked them about it, their answer would likely be the very same as yours. They just have different view on what crimes are so horrible as to deserve death, otherwise itās the same argument.
Iām not trying to dishonestly compare or liken you to them or anyone for that matter. Just trying to make you aware that their reasoning is the same, so the question I have is, which one of you is right, or are both right? And if not both, who makes the objective call on all these thresholds of horribleness that demand executions.
Which is to say, we canāt eat our cake and have it too. You canāt just say death is fine for my reasons, but not for someone elseās reasons, because that is dishonest. Either executions are fine, or they arenāt, but anything in between is just trying to have it both ways and assuming that your point of view is the better one than the othersā who do this same argument and ideology. Which is fair and all, you are you, these are subjective things. But the subjectivity is precisely what makes it such a disingenuous argument in the first place. Everybody defines those lines that get crossed, differently. Then based on whose point of view do we make the calls? Itās not obvious, itās never going to be unanimous, and it will lead to further conflict and disdain in the long run, as we very well know and see ourselves, today.
But itās a valid stance, itās very human, Iām not saying you are wrong to think so. Itās just not very rational, is what Iām saying, which makes it, in my opinion, not a good argument for things that lead to deaths of peopleā¦
HubertManne@piefed.social
on 04 Jun 16:38
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Many who are against the death penalty have issues on several fronts. If its found the conviction was in error then there is not reversing it. The response that well only for cases we are sure but its impossible to have that as we run into the lack of perfecttion both in our legal system and the people agreeing on when we are sure. After that there is if rehabilitation is possible and some believe its always possible. Then also you simply have the acceptance of group murder or institutional murder. The state as a collective is doing a thing that would be a crime from an individual but its fine because its the group or state (generally the state would not allow it from a group as well). With that its the hypocrisy of it. Now of course the state is allowed to go to war but usually that is predicated on a right to defend onesself.
Depends on who you ask. But, thereās plenty of people that believe strongly in a punitive system. Prison is primarily for punishment and retributionāthe state empowering the (assumed) revenge desires of the victims. If there was a painless way to execute someone they wouldnāt want to use it; the suffering of the convicted is a feature, not a bug.
I agree with you that we should focus and rehabilitation and restoration, but the U.S. prison-industrial complex is not actually currently oriented with that being the primary purposes.
Nop.Iām in an european country that way too lenient with criminals. Recent case we have an active disparition alert of a 10yo. The suspect had several complaint against him send to the police for several rape on multiple minor. This was more than on year ago. Nothing had been done. He was never auditioned.
Coountry is France.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 04 Jun 15:44
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Pakistanis who gang-raped
Itās two guys.
Please donāt ever post this disgusting racist rag.
Are you quibbling over two vs several? Or are you insinuating the title would be different if they were white? Because Iāve definitely seen the term applied to all races and any number of attackers.
Personally I donāt think we should worry that much about being politically correct when weāre talking about convicted sexual predators.
Thereās a very concerted effort by certain European publications to sensationalize crime by immigrants from India and Pakistan. Kinda similar to publications in usa to sensationalize crime by black and muslims
threaded - newest
Red scare, Islamophobia, and idpol oh my! š±
Oh go fuck yourself!
No one should be forced to fuck them, not even themselves.
Uh, what? No-one but you mentioned politics or religion.
Pakistan has a serious problem with rape culture, which is far worse for Pakistani women than for tourists.
this happened in 2021, weird to post it today though right?
edit: it was actually in 2020, crazy how so many ājournalistsā are now intrigued about a specific case in Pakistan.
There is new information though? As another comment to this OP explains:
I donāt know the reasoning behind OPās posting it now, but it seems a legitimate issue to be aware of. Especially if the police are blaming the woman for not knowing that it was a bad area to be in, despite all the precautions taken.
youre right, the daily mail is acting in good faith
The appeal just was denied.
This is news from today, not 5 years ago.
It ain't just Pakistan.
No, it isnāt. However this event lead to discussion and protests about the problem in Pakistan. The international media attention is partly why - local society may judge a local woman but international society was rightfully horrified, including about the victim blaming rhetoric from the police.
Cultural change is a slow process and requires some form of pressure, but maybe the media coverage and the incredibly harsh judgement was enough for some men to rethink and not hurt women, and for more women to step forward when they are hurt. So hate the Daily Mail if you want but please donāt be dismissive of such an important topic.
And yet no one is calling out KSA, Qatar, UAE, USA, Germany...
Please stop with the what-aboutism. The reporting is on a particular event that involved a tourist, so the relevant country is being highlighted. In the same way, France was highlighted regarding the poor French woman whose husband drugged her and organised her rapes. If a similar event occurred in another country, they would be in focus. Talkng about the issue in the abstract is unfortunately rarely a catalyst for change.
For you
Daily Mail? If thereās no better source, it didnāt happen to me.
The Daily Mail is sensationalist, but they didnāt make this up.
indiatoday.in/ā¦/lahore-motorway-case-pakistani-meā¦
www.dawn.com/news/2004896
aol.com/ā¦/two-gunmen-raped-mom-her-175157000.html
French media:
lefigaro.fr/ā¦/pakistan-la-justice-confirme-la-peiā¦
thank you! AOL is a news aggregator and itās just mirroring The Mirror here, another illrepute sensationalist tabloid, but dawn and figaro seem good
That they choose to report on it at all is not because itās newsworthy, but because they want to stoke tensions.
Ya ok but there are probably 100 other incidents of gang rape at the same time that they completely ignored because the perpetrator werent brownā¦ those stories didnt fit their agenda I guess
BBC good enough?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56472645
The BBC article is from 2021, when the original verdict was made. The Daily Mail update here is just saying that the appeal failed and the death sentence is confirmed.
Man what a terrible take. Her car broke down, she had the doors locked, and they broke the windows and dragged her out before raping her at gunpoint. She was also a foreign tourist, and canāt be expected to know all the good/bad parts of town imo.
And thatās why all those victim blamers need to punished.
ACAB
Retard.
I might be stupid,
The kind of idiot who supports pigs WOULD be the kind of person still using retard as an insult in 2026. Zero thought, zero maturity.
Youāre wrong, because the only reason I havenāt called the guy youāre responding to ret*rded is out of respect for the people who might read this comment.
ACAB
why do tourist still go to these places?
like a brown person going to America in 2026
like iām not blaming her and fuck that cop but why would you risk going there, minorities coming for the world cup are crazy given current america
or people that visit north korea
Every part of that sentence escalated quickly.
<img alt="" src="http://www.quickmeme.com/img/d0/d0cf7e7c617a0bda2884bb3d9415c393a1b832e270139662d9845a8c98d92ec8.jpg">
Tge entire Indian subcontinent is unsafe for women w/o a good justice system. Marital rape is still legal in India.
The site is called Daily Rag for a reason. Theyāve always been running sensationalist and racist stories since its inception:
theguardian.com/ā¦/immigration.immigrationandpubliā¦
I canāt find the article, but i remember seeing an anti-refugee headline from them at the outbreak of the Second World War.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI
how was the posted story racist?
Thereās always a fash trying to sanewash The Rag.
Because anyone that talks about how Islam countries actually are and act is āislamiphobeicā. Youāre instantly accused of being racist as a shitty defense for pointing out facts. Atheist myself and I think all religions are pieces of shit, but Islam as practiced in modern times is factually probably one of the worst religions. People of all religions do horrible things, but the amount of cruelty, murder, and rape under the guise of Sharia law is absolutely unparalleled in the modern world.
Average enlightened Westerner. Youāre probably posting this from a taken land in the US, a slave owning setller colonial state built on the blood of at least 150 million true americans.
i mean iām not OP but to further your point i live in california and the entire town i live in used to be a [not saying the tribe] graveyard. Every time they zone an area for new houses the tribe comes out, searches the land, and rehomes the artifacts.
Yeah.
The relentless upvoting of tabloids may be my biggest issue with Lemmy. Information hygiene here is terrible, and the users donāt seem to care.
One time, calling this out, the OP of a news post responded that they didnāt care an article was fake. It was upvoted to the front page and never got removed.
We should do the same. No place for ppl like that in any civile society. Either death sentence or castration plus prison
Ever heard about wrongful convictions?
Could just have a death sentence be only passed when thereās beyond doubt of guilt and have it approved by the head of state
Arenāt all conviction in US beyond doubt likeā¦ by definition? And there are always reviews and appeals and request for clemency to heads of states. And innocent people were executed many many times.
Isnāt all this common knowledge by now?
At some point saying that we ard only sure at 99.99% and not 100% so we fan t do anything about it is utterly ridiculous. No system is perfect and yet u use that argument at the age of cctv dna test and so on
You can do plenty of things but in a civilized country we tend not to punish people in brutal ways just to get some satisfaction. We isolate them, make sure they canāt hurt anyone and try to rehabilitate them.
And we do this, among other things, because systems are not perfect and doing irreversible harm to people is problematic. Even with CCTV and DNA tests.
Doing irrevserible harm to ppl is problematic āļøš¤
Pls, no country on earth has the ressource to rehabilitate every criminal nor they should try. U cant just look me in the eyes and say to me yeah he was a neo nazi that killed 20 ppl in a place of cult but have you thinking about his rehabilitation and how horrible you will be if you think it will be a net positive for society if we kill him ?
Mother of god you really are a fucking moronā¦ Every day I grow more ABs more weary existing here.
And me thinking nobody will ever defend nazi here, here u are doing it with litteral nazi terrorist.
They may type like a moron, but they have a point. Itās easy for someone to sit behind a screen and type ājust rehabilitate themā online.
For context, Iām thinking more of a recent murder case that happened in the UK. Basically a sikh guy stabbed a British student, then called the police on him accusing him of racism. Police arrived and handcuffed the dying student as he bled out, dying on the ground in handcuffs. The Sikhās family were complicit
Obviously, a whole myriad of immigration tension has arisen again (happened with the southport stabbings also) and people are rioting.
I think if we publicly executed people who carried out these atrocities, it would quench the general publicās bloodthirst and restore order, hopefully reducing hate crimes on the innocent immigrants.
Public executionsā¦ yeah, that would bring back the good times for sure.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.curiana.net/pictrs/image/7b282367-ac35-43e2-b282-d66ef50bfe4d.png">
What am I looking at exactly
Public execution. They hanged a guy from a tree and took a nice group photo. They would then make nice postcards out of them and sent out to family. Really brings back the community together. Especially if the criminal is of a different race. The history showed us that there are no risk of discrimination or abuse here. Justice system should do what the mod desires. We could call itā¦ mob justice.
Why do americans always bring race into things? A guilty person is guilty, regardless of race
Iām not American but you said that executing a sikh guy for killing a British student (who was actually Polish) to stop riots would be a good idea. You specifically mentioned races of the involved and talked about immigration tensions. But yes, I started talking about race out of nowhereā¦
Does this really not sound familiar to you?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till
Too much exposure to American media is making you act like one and constantly harp on about the USA
Thatās quite a step away from saying āwe should execute murderersā to suddenly jumping to Emmett Till
A whole witch-hunt also happened when James Bulger was murdered. Itās not always race related. Offending white people is not always a crime, and never a capital offence.
I know itās not the same thing as Emmett Till but itās funny that in a 2026 people still think that murdering people to appease racist mobs is a good idea.
Executing murderers to appease angry mobs*
I basically mean cctv footage where itās clearly them, or a guilty plea
innocenceproject.org/coerced-pleas/
Do you people not read at all?
I wasnāt referring to underdeveloped disorderly countries.
Like US?
Yes
Implying people get locked up when there is still reasonable doubt? That sounds like a massive problem.
It does happen, such as Lucy Letby. I donāt think she should be executed.
This is the reason civil societies have mostly done away with the death penalty, simply because we cannot ever be 100% we have the guilty people. We like to think the court systems are infallible, but they sure arent.
Iād say itās probably the biggest argument against the death penalty tbh. But then, at the same time, innocent people have died serving life sentences also.
We have litteral tool that doesnāt let any doubt regarding that matter. It s such a terrible bad argument that it never applied in any other situation.
What āliteral toolā is that?
Dna CCTV localisation any numeric trace
senseaboutscience.org/ā¦/making-sense-of-forensic-ā¦
āāāA subsequent investigation revealed that Mr Scott had become implicated as a result of accidental contamination of samples within the lab. The day before processing samples from the alleged rape victim, the lab had handled a DNA sample from Mr Scott, following a āspitting incidentā in Exeter, UK. Unfortunately the disposable plastic plate used to analyse this sample had been inadvertently reused in the rape case, resulting in the misidentification.āāā
Not to mention corrupt cops and prosecutors.
Why the need to kill people? Why not just isolate them? Do you think itās actually more practical to kill them or itās just so you can feel better knowing they are dead?
Practical, economical, dissuasive and also justified.
Your paper is about dna profiling and not matching.
Itās not economical, itās common knowledge that the whole appeal process is more expensive then housing someone for life:
deathpenaltyinfo.org/dpi-series-facts-about-the-dā¦
Itās also not dissuasive:
amnestyusa.org/ā¦/the-death-penalty-and-deterrenceā¦
deathpenaltyproject.org/ā¦/The-Death-Penalty-Projeā¦
Itās actually good that youāre uninformed. You can educate yourself and this may help you evolve your opinions beyond primitive ideas of justice like āeye for an eyeā.
(profiling is part of matching, you match DNA profiles, you donāt sequence the entire genome).
Your link lmao.
First one say judgment is longer yet doesnāt take into account the cos of prolonged incarceration anywhere. Just that the procedure is longer.
Second is a survey and a comparaison without any source regarding different place where a lot more factor are involved.
Thoses arent study but opinion pieces.
Try again.
Also I dont care about your view about eyes for eyes since death penalty can t never equal thoses. About Christchurch do u think his death will have as much value than every life he took ?
So you choose not to educate yourself. Sad but understandable.
I litteraly rebuke your link that were opinion pieces and you accuse me of refusing to educate myslef. Ok dude
I think we should do it publicly also
Yeah. The kill all men crowd really quiet when u say kill the rappist
No place for them in society as they were, but rehabilitation is always possible, always desired. There will be a place for them after rehabilitation.
We have to trust that system. If we donāt, then whatās the point of prisons in the first place? If nobody can ever change, then theyāll always just remain a threat and thereās no sense keeping everyone in prisons indefinitely. Either we believe they can rehabilitate or we should just kill everyone whoās ever unfit for society, I suppose, no?
Ceremonial killing, executions, are an antithesis to the concept of prisons, rehabilitation. Itās never just, if we have a belief that people can and will change.
Its only use would be to act as a scare of some sort, but a lifetime of forced life, contained in cells, always watched, always mistreated, never a chance for a dignified life, is way more of a scare than death. Death is easy. Death is quick. Itās merciful in comparison.
A temporary stay at a prison without the belief of anyone being able to rehabilitate, is just deferring and allowing further crimes and violence in future.
So we have to believe people can change. Because they can, and they do.
And if we hold that belief, killing is not only killing the misfit in question, today, but also any potential good deeds and meaningful life they mightāve lead after rehabilitation. Itās killing someone, in future, who deserves not to die.
I never understand people who advocate for temporary jail stints and death sentences at the same time. It never makes sense, itās irrational.
Oh my god
No it s not and even some ppl donāt deserve it simply. When u do some heinous shit you pay the consĆ©quence for it and your wellbeing and repentance isnāt my concern.
Right, so you say some deserve the chance and some donāt. Who or what makes the call? I bet the Arab countries that lynch homosexuals for example, they think and reason the same as you. So their well-being isnāt your concern? Or do you consider yourself the better moral compass? Should you make all the calls then? Or do you simultaneously judge others making the same rationale, but with different principles/rules, and advocate for the very same thing but with yours? You are fine with the dissonance, then?
You think pedophile shouylkd be shot omg what horrible person you are im sure you think the same about homosexual. Basically your argument. Some crime are so horrible and against any possible once of humanity that yes they should deserve death. I dont see any dissonance and u trying to make one by comparing me with some third world country is dishonest.
I mean, if I asked them about it, their answer would likely be the very same as yours. They just have different view on what crimes are so horrible as to deserve death, otherwise itās the same argument.
Iām not trying to dishonestly compare or liken you to them or anyone for that matter. Just trying to make you aware that their reasoning is the same, so the question I have is, which one of you is right, or are both right? And if not both, who makes the objective call on all these thresholds of horribleness that demand executions.
Which is to say, we canāt eat our cake and have it too. You canāt just say death is fine for my reasons, but not for someone elseās reasons, because that is dishonest. Either executions are fine, or they arenāt, but anything in between is just trying to have it both ways and assuming that your point of view is the better one than the othersā who do this same argument and ideology. Which is fair and all, you are you, these are subjective things. But the subjectivity is precisely what makes it such a disingenuous argument in the first place. Everybody defines those lines that get crossed, differently. Then based on whose point of view do we make the calls? Itās not obvious, itās never going to be unanimous, and it will lead to further conflict and disdain in the long run, as we very well know and see ourselves, today.
But itās a valid stance, itās very human, Iām not saying you are wrong to think so. Itās just not very rational, is what Iām saying, which makes it, in my opinion, not a good argument for things that lead to deaths of peopleā¦
I understand the point you making. But I think we fan clearly and with a large majority agree on some case that deserve death sentence. Like for terrorism, rĆ©pĆ©ter offense of murder rape and pedophilia. I dont think saying thoses are subjective but rather objective. I think the stance of we shouldnāt kill anyone cause somme could disagree is a weak argument. Some ppl think rape is ok, that doesnāt mean it should be ok or we shouldnāt punish it.
Many who are against the death penalty have issues on several fronts. If its found the conviction was in error then there is not reversing it. The response that well only for cases we are sure but its impossible to have that as we run into the lack of perfecttion both in our legal system and the people agreeing on when we are sure. After that there is if rehabilitation is possible and some believe its always possible. Then also you simply have the acceptance of group murder or institutional murder. The state as a collective is doing a thing that would be a crime from an individual but its fine because its the group or state (generally the state would not allow it from a group as well). With that its the hypocrisy of it. Now of course the state is allowed to go to war but usually that is predicated on a right to defend onesself.
Depends on who you ask. But, thereās plenty of people that believe strongly in a punitive system. Prison is primarily for punishment and retributionāthe state empowering the (assumed) revenge desires of the victims. If there was a painless way to execute someone they wouldnāt want to use it; the suffering of the convicted is a feature, not a bug.
I agree with you that we should focus and rehabilitation and restoration, but the U.S. prison-industrial complex is not actually currently oriented with that being the primary purposes.
Are you in the US? I have some bad news for you thenā¦
Nop.Iām in an european country that way too lenient with criminals. Recent case we have an active disparition alert of a 10yo. The suspect had several complaint against him send to the police for several rape on multiple minor. This was more than on year ago. Nothing had been done. He was never auditioned. Coountry is France.
Itās two guys.
Please donāt ever post this disgusting racist rag.
Gang rape: the rape of one person by several attackers in succession
Are you quibbling over two vs several? Or are you insinuating the title would be different if they were white? Because Iāve definitely seen the term applied to all races and any number of attackers.
Personally I donāt think we should worry that much about being politically correct when weāre talking about convicted sexual predators.
Maybe headlines like this stick in my head, but it seems thereās a rather large rape problem in Pakistan and India.
Thereās a very concerted effort by certain European publications to sensationalize crime by immigrants from India and Pakistan. Kinda similar to publications in usa to sensationalize crime by black and muslims