U.S. Has Attacked Iran's Nuclear Facilities
(www.twz.com)
from BombOmOm@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 00:22
https://lemmy.world/post/31789842
from BombOmOm@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 00:22
https://lemmy.world/post/31789842
#world
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Can’t wait for all the Americans who haven’t done a thing to stop him or to fight his voter base to show up and loudly proclaim that they don’t support this.
Will also get a nice shitty side of “well what do you EXPECT me to DO?”
Congratulations on having the stupidest comment so far. You should be proud.
It was the only comment, so unfortunately also the most ingenious.
Come on, at least call me a keyboard warrior. You guys are going off-script.
It IS probably their script! You can tell reddit is going down when their toxicity makes it’s way over here.
it’s means “it is”. You wanted “its”. Must be the lead.
Your right! They’re must be alot’ve brain in my lead. Thank’s for helping! 👍
you couldn’t of said it better
Give them a break, a new season of oligarchs housewives just started and it’s not like they can just not go to work. They’ll be out next month on Saturday.
If the weather is nice, and, you know, if they can get all the proper permits for their parade.
Bret McGurk was literally just on CNN… BIDEN’S GUY!.. and basically endorsed the strikes. NOTHING WOULD HAVE CHANGED IF WE VOTED FOR HARRIS. WHEN WILL YOU GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULL?!?
Cool, guess you’ve done all you can. Great work. Sit back, have a coke, watch tv. Be very proud of all you’ve accomplished.
Okay mods I’ll be civil this time. Since voting does nothing positive and only serves as a cudgel for politicians to claim that they legitimately represent their subjects, then if you only voted, it is slightly more useless than doing literally nothing.
You keep telling yourself that
You think Harris would have ignored the constitution like that? Sure buddy
OF COURSE I DO!!!
EVERY administration since the establishment of this country has wiped its ass with the text of the Constitution!
Okay mods I’ll be civil. I basically said “I saw it (what this person is responding to) with my own eyes.”
The only reason you people care so strongly is because of the “51st state” crap. You’re the same small, scared little people that every American is, that any person is, really.
If you think upending your life to start an insurgency on behalf of other people, people on the other side of the planet even, should be expected behavior, why don’t you slide on down here and show us how it’s done? Let’s see your face and a body count on CNN.
Excuses, excuses, excuses
Imagine having the gall to not only say you won’t fix your problems, but then call on others to go and fix it as well.
Americans really are the laziest people.
What’s next? Launching a war against the Ukraine to please Putin?
You dumb fucking orange man.
…do you think Putin wants Iran to be bombed?
Do you think Trump didn’t ask permission to his master before bombing Iran?
Netanyahu?
Although it’s not like Trump is some puppet on a string. The whole US government wants war with Iran and it has for my entire life. There doesn’t need to be some secret master behind this (Israel, Russia, whatever)
Lol Netanyahu is not Trump’s master, he’s his business buddy.
The guy thinks like an 80s caricature of a business man. He wants to build resorts in Gaza so he cozies up with Israel. Plus there’s oil and natural gas in Iran. Iran is a friend of China which Trump desperately wants to look strong against.
He doesn’t care about Israel or Palestinians (or anyone for that matter) he couldn’t give two shits. If the roles were reversed, he would cozy up to the power in charge.
I’m not saying he’s a great strategist, I think he goes with the opportunities and jumps on them when he can and he takes a lot of miscalculated risks, exactly like he run his other businesses.
But one thing for sure, he asked Putin before he did launched his pew pews on Iran.
Do you think Biden wouldn’t have done the exact same thing to “defend” Israel?
This is clearly about Israel and the long-time desire for war with Iran in the US government. Blaming Russia is, frankly, absurd.
Trump certainly would like to have Putin as a business buddy, he’s an 80’s deals guy after all, but there’s no business here that benefits Russia so that’s also absurd. Russia does not benefit from Iran’s collapse. This is very bad for Russia.
I’m not blaming Russia, I’m not saying Dems were not gonna side with Israel. You asked if Putin wanted the strikes on Iran. I’m saying there’s no way he wasn’t on board.
Does he like it? I don’t know but one thing for sure is he knew about the strikes and agreed to them. With all that Trump did to benefit Putin up till then, no way in hell he didn’t ask permission to do that move…
And I’m saying there’s no way Putin wants Iran to be bombed, and so therefore this was done without his permission or knowledge.
Biden wouldn’t have voided and left the Iran nuclear agreement (that he himself helped to negotiate and put in place) though, which was the stone that got all of this rolling in the first place.
Anybody else remember Cheyney singing “bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran?”
Yup. When have established powers ever liked a revolutionary government? We don’t have to like the type of revolution Iran underwent to acknowledge that it was a radical revolutionary government in the literal sense of the term. No country on Earth has a form of government like Iran’s. It’s pretty unique. Any time a decent sized country tries is taken over by revolutionaries who attempt a radically new form of government, they receive immense opposition from the old powers. All of Europe declared war on France for chopping the head off their king. Every western government embargoed the people Haiti for daring to violently overthrow their slavers. An expeditionary army of numerous capitalist powers invaded the nascent Soviet Union to try and shut it down. And Iran has been under massive sanctions since they dared to throw their western-backed dictator out by force.
Established powers always try to clamp down on any kind of revolutionary government. It’s not that they fear the government itself; they fear the ideas that government represents. Iran needed to be punished. It needed to be embargoed into poverty. They couldn’t just let Iran try out its new form of government and let them sort themselves out. Because if Iran can overthrow a western-backed puppet and seize control over their own natural resources? Well that’s an idea that could spread far and wide.
After existing since 1979, Iran’s government is pretty far from “revolutionary”. In fact, looking at their domestic policy, I’ll call them reactionary without a second thought.
Their most “revolutionary” thought probably was: “let’s export our theocracy to other lands”.
They are a symptom however. The shah was so unpopular (read: repressive) that islamists were able to take over. The shah was propped up by the UK and US in the 1950-ties, in a coup, because Iran nationalized oil industries.
Strangely yes. This jacks up the price of oil in a way that doesn’t dirty Putin’s hands. It’s a bit of a weird play but makes some sense.
Iran is a major trade partner and an important partner in the Ukraine War and they were both important allies of Assad and worked closely together in Syria. They have deep ties. There’s no way the price of oil is worth losing one of their key allies in the region.
Why not? They have strategic value sure but Russia is nearly bankrupt, Iran for an extra year or two of solvency makes sense to me. Further weakens the US too.
It told you why not! Because Iran is an important regional ally and business partner and military asset.
Russia sacrificing an ally like this for something as paltry as “gas prices” would be short-sighted in the extreme.
Although since you seem to think Russia is “nearly bankrupt” and that this only buys them “an extra year or two” that explains why you don’t think this matters.
Yeah the condescending really explained your point. Import export numbers, critical resources only Iran provides Russia, strategic geographic and political value. You really covered it all in those… 3 sentences formatted as paragraphs. Worthless. Down vote me if you failed econ 1.
Jesus do you want me to write you an essay?
I will say they just entered a new 20-year bilateral trade and military cooperation treaty on Jan 17th of this year, which is hardly something Russia would do if they were willing to just destroy Iran in a few months. They did this because trade between the countries has risen sharply due to the sanctions against Russia, and that’s not going away any time soon so it would be foolish to sacrifice them at this stage. Then there’s the suspected missiles and drones that Iran has been (possibly) supplying Russia for its war with Ukraine, and blowing them up would disrupt that supply line.
But if you’re determined to believe Russia wants Iran to be bombed, I won’t be able to stop you.
You wanna go look at those numbers or you gonna keep bullshitting based on articles you skimmed? Like I’m aware of the trade and the drones. I’m also aware of Russia’s oil exports and their ghost fleet selling to India and others.
Here’s a list of Russia’s trading partners with numbers. Notice how Iran isn’t even top 10? Do I need to break down what they’re exporting to Germany or do you get it now? And this ignores India BTW.
…wikipedia.org/…/List_of_the_largest_trading_part…
Strait of Hormuz shuts and that’s gravy for Russian, especially with the Artic ocean melting. Congrads though, now I think you’re a drop out.
If Iran gets their own nukes, then Russia loses a big bargaining chip.
Honestly, that’s probably the only reason why nukes weren’t used.
If Iran gets their own nukes, one of Russia’s most important allies in the region is safe from attack. That seems a lot more useful than a “bargaining chip”. Now, Russia risks losing an important ally and whatever bargaining chip they may have had.
You’re reading the play like Russia wants an ally.
What they want is a dependent.
Only empires can have dependency, Russia isn’t nearly that strong. Russia needs allies or it will be overwhelmed.
Glances at Belarus
Yeah. Okay.
Belarus has basically been driven out of the European economy, but that’s hardly something Russia did. If Russia has become an empire and Belarus has lost its sovereignty it’s because Europe decided to force the issue. Bad move, I guess?
Or maybe Belarus and Russia are just allies and they’re working together like normal allies do.
Either way, comparing this to Iran is absurd! Iran has ten times the population. Plus, China is right there. It wouldn’t work.
Look at that, it’s working.
I think you should look at a map sometime. Unless you are taking about Russia-China relations, but that doesn’t seem to be the context here.
What’s working? Iran isn’t any more dependent on Russia than it was before the strikes.
There are just as many countries between Iran and Russia as there are between Iran and China, I don’t see why Iran would have to allow itself to be dependent on Russia when China is just as close. Granted, Russia and Iran border the Caspian Sea so they can access each others’ ports, but Iran also has ocean coast so it can access Chinese ports as well. In terms of raw numbers, Iran’s exports to China value $4.59B and imports value $10B. Trade with Russia, by comparison, is $1.9B. Total.
China is actually a closer economic partner with Iran than Russia is, so why wouldn’t Iran be able to turn to China?
Also, Iran is a founding member of the Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. Also also, Iran is an observer member of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, and looks to be in the process to become a full member eventually.
Also also also, Taiwan condemned Iran’s strikes against Israel, so you know they’re tight with China lol
Then why would you say China is “right there” as an argument.
Also, the premise is not that Iran is a puppet state of Russia, but that they are dependent on Russia for security from other nuclear-armed countries. Russia doesn’t want Iran to get nukes because they lose that valuable bargaining chip.
Let’s sum up your arguments so far.
You think that Russia can’t maintain control over other nations, and I provided a direct refutation of that.
You think that China was geographically closer to Iran than Russia was, and that is refuted with Google maps.
You need to take a look at the players, their motivations and the “board” and then come back with an actual assessment instead of plainly incorrect and unfounded opinions
I agree with most of the points you’re raising in this thread but Belarus is definitely a Russian puppet state more so than a conventional ally.
But Russia thinks it’s an empire and acts accordingly, reality be damned.
So you think they’re stupid.
I don’t agree with the guy, but Russia has dependencies both in central Asia and in Europe. Without Russia’s support, the current regimes in Turkmenistan, Belarus and Transnistria would not survive.
Iran, however, isn’t one, as you said.
Iran supplies an absolute shit ton of military supplies to Russia.
Yeah. You think Russia is doing shit for free?
Russia is a real country run by actual human beings. They’re not Mordor with a dark lord commanding an army of orcs. And Russia wants allies. They’re up against a vast global US-lead alliance system. Of course they want allies.
Would have been easy enough for them to be allies with Ukraine, but they didn’t do that, did they?
No, they want dependents. Allies have a choice. Dependents have an illusion of choice.
Yeah but usa is russia’s ally
Thinning some of the most geopolitically misinformed shit I’ve read in a while, congratulations.
Great rebuttle. Really drove home your point with facts and evidence. Oh no sorry, didn’t get bogged down with those… Or post any, or even a differing opinion. Just the snide of… Did you by chance drop out of school?
Plus the whole world destabilization thing
Who would stop him?
Never thought I live to see someone fuck up worse than Bush Jr.
He just got the US into a war where there’s nothing to gain, zero upsides other than bending the k we to Israel.
We are only 6 months in…… fuck us
Musta missed 2019 when the US was caught with their pants down during a global pandemic, despite having a pandemic plan in place just a few years prior. Ultimately ended up killing over a million Americans… And the guy got re-elected.
two things can be shite at once buddy.
No one said otherwise.
The original commenter said they hadn’t seen anyone fuck up this bad since Bush. The responder is simply implying that they think the covid response was an equally bad fuck up.
that’s not the math I took from it. but, fair point, I reckon.
Trump is an enemy to the US. He isn’t fucking up, we’re letting him succeed.
Anyone who still thinks Trump is to blame just isn’t paying attention.
These strikes would’ve happened no matter who the president was it’s a geopolitical inevitability.
And yes, it’s becoming increasingly clear that Ukraine is in serious trouble now.
Taiwan and South Korea probably shittting their pants right about now as well. Daddy’s about to be too busy to help out when their possed off neightcome knocking
They’ll be next — just not immediately. Over the next couple of years, Ukraine will likely be partitioned, and as the war with Iran de-escalates, a new conflict will be needed to fill the vacuum. That’s how the cycle tends to work.
I’m waiting to see if Trump/pentagon escalates or does their strike package and goes home.
I doubt this is going to lead to some sort of ground invasion. Biden would have done the exact same although maybe more clandestine.
yes!
Iran and its allies and proxies have to retaliate against US positions in the region. If Iran doesnt respond, they will be considered fair game for bombing whenever the US and Israel are bored. Both US and Israel just proved that diplomacy is off the table with them. Neither country speaks any language but violence.
I don’t know if they can, honestly. Iran has lost air superiority in their own skies as well as, reportedly, a majority of their long range missile launch sites. US bases in the near gulf states might be in range of Irans short range arsenal, but do they really want a strike into their neighbors territory? We’ll see.
What ground invasion lol, americans have zero chance invading Iran.
Ugh. This kind of hits hard.
I know people who are active in the military (yes they are stupid and yes it doesn’t take much analysis to figure out they’re probably magats). In particular I know several who have been to Kuwait and seem to regularly get stationed there.
I’ve known several people who died by suicide from PTSD from Kuwait, or Iraq.
There’s a girl, she’s a sergeant. She’s in until 2028, been to Kuwait already. I don’t know if she’s even 23. She certainly doesn’t come off as a magat. But it doesn’t really matter. 23 is an adult yes. But to me? I’m 34? She’s just starting life out. To get killed in this kind of war is gross.
And your point here besides pointlessly insulting everyone serving in the armed forces?
There’s fucking nothing traumatic happening in Kuwait right now. Or in that last 20 years for that matter. Get your head out of your ass. What is this bullshit pulling on your heartstrings fearmongering nonsense comment. “She’s been to Kuwait already” dumbass I’ve been to all the bases in Kuwait multiple times it’s chill. They train and they have a taco bell. It’s admin HQ for operations nearby
The PTSD folk? They were in the expelling force in '91. The others were in Iraq (mainly after 2003), and came through Kuwait.
Kuwait was chill after the Iraq regime fell.
Kuwait is right over the Persian Gulf by Iran. It won’t be chill for very long.
Of course the PTSD folks went through it. Though I am arguing with you I want to make it clear I meant zero disrespect or antagonization for anyone who lived through that as part of the expelling force. I was there as a citizen. My point was that your comment made it seem as if Kuwait has been a hot zone in between those times and I got upset and perhaps reacted poorly.
Oh, no, not at all. It’s purely about its location and importance than worry me.
The US empire is a cancer on humanity
Hey dude, we didn’t all vote for him
I said empire, not president. Dems aren’t opposing the war.
Trump didn’t seek congressional approval before the strike.
He doesn’t have to, if it’s an “emergency”.
And how have democrat politicians responded?
The other half voted for Biden (yes, I know, different election, but they did, minus rounding errors). 17.8 billion in military aid to Israel under his leadership, in addition to the 3.8 billion a year for an entire decade that Obama set up. It is not the president, it’s not the GOP, it’s the country. When Harris bragged at the DNC that she would make the US military the most lethal fighting force on the planet, do you feel like she was implying that she would have them sit on their hands?
Half of you did. What a dumb nation
These young kids are a waste of life…
You’re right, and what you need to understand is that the reason half of our idiots voted for an idiot is because we allowed corporations to atomize society so people didn’t mix anymore, we don’t have shared perspectives of the world anymore, everyone gets their information about literally everything algorithmically. This atomization of society is what took down the USA and it’s coming for you next if it’s not already happening wherever you are.
Not even close half, us democracy is a joke that loser can win and not everyone gets to vote. 22,5% of US population voted for trump. That is still way too much, but it is still minority.
Almost every American just wants to stay home and play video games, we didn’t want any of this. We wanted healthcare.
I fully agree: Americans need to liberate themselves from the chains of their government. Join a local socialist organization, mutual aid, or union
They should vote that way then, being dumbasses serves no-one good
Hello world war 3.
It’s being nice knowing you, humans
Doesn’t a world war require someone backing Iran? Or do you mean “the whole world vs Iran”?
Russia is busy, Hamas is not available, Hisbollah is not available, Syria is not interested anymore, Huthis will send a few rockets again…
Well. China will invade Taiwan, pearl harbouring us bases in Japan before hand.
Bada Bing. Bada boom. Shooting war starts
When China invades Taiwan, that itself has a lot of potential for escalation. Bada Bing. Bada boom. Iran might be completely irrelevant in such a war.
How is Iran even a factor in that case then?
How was tiny little Serbia a factor triggering WW1?
Little things spiral into bigger things, which then spiral into yet bigger things.
This could very easily spiral into a full-on WW3 scenario. Note, WW3 may not look like what you expect it to look like. We’ve been culturally conditioned to think WW3 will look like thousands of mushroom clouds over major cities, but that need not be the case. WW3 could be a large conventional war just like the previous world wars.
Russia is already bogged down in Ukraine, and the US and NATO are supplying them. Israel is at war with a half a dozen countries, and the US is supporting them, including directly entering the war on Iran. The danger of WW3 lies is revealed when you ask, why did Israel choose this time to attack Iran? They chose to because now was simply the perfect opportunity. With Iran’s proxy fighters around Israel devastated, with the Gaza a smoking ruin, Iranian power is lower than it has been in years. That’s why they decided to do this now - kick them while they’re down.
Us getting bogged down in Iran, however, presents other countries with their own windows of opportunity. And the biggest one is China invading Taiwan. China has been saber-rattling and openly planning an invasion of Taiwan, to be done at some point in the next few years. What better time to launch it than when the US has already been depleting their limited weapon stocks in Ukraine, and just got bogged down in Iran?
China is already involved in the Ukraine conflict; they’re one of Russia’s biggest suppliers. Iran also is a Russian ally, providing them thousands of drones. The alliance system of a potential world war is already laid out. It would be Russia/Iran/China vs the US, NATO, and assorted allies.
This would be unlikely to end up in a full nuclear exchange. Direct invasion of the homelands of Russia, China, or the US are not going to happen. But we could see multiple large conventional armed conflicts breaking out in multiple theaters, a conflict between two vast alliance systems that between them encompass most of the world’s population.
If that isn’t a world war, I don’t know what is. Nukes don’t need to fly to have a conflict that leaves millions dead.
IMO, there is a lot of conjuntive in it.
For now, there were only bombs on nuclear facilities from the US side… No foot troops getting bogged down. Nothing getting bogged down for now…
You can always imagine how something could link to a word war. That would have already worked for Ukraine. That would have worked with Afghanistan as well.
The question is how realistic it is. I’m not a fan of painting the devil on the wall by declaring WW3 myself on Lemmy and saying goodbye to others…
US weapons stockpiles aren’t depleted in the slightest. You guys sent your old stuff to Ukraine and not much more, and you haven’t sent anything substantial in over a year.
Iran will, most likely, not involve more than an air campaign and the US can do that with a bomber wing and a carrier strike group. I can’t imagine a case where this evolves into a full invasion (but of course with trump you can never be sure).
If anything, seeing Iran getting dominated by Israel and the US would probably give China some doubts about a possible operation against Taiwan.
I honestly don’t think the US has its traditional allies any more. Why should Canada get involved in defense of a bully who is threatening to invade it?
Israel is the third variable in the equation since everyone is subservient to it, so who knows what will happen there
Precisely so it doesn’t end up on the wrong side and end up getting invaded.
Pakistan could back Iran while India backs Israel. It has the potential to escalate.
There is never 0 potential for escalation in a world political context. The question is how realistic it is…
And Pakistan and Iran are not really best buddies. There is also the potential of them attacking each other. edition.cnn.com/2024/01/18/world/…/index.html
Furthermore: From a few weeks ago, we already know that it doesn’t need Iran for India and Pakistan to attack each other… Last time, it did not end in a world war.
The US is going to war with Iran on behalf of Israel. Russia is at war with Ukraine. Russia is Iran’s ally. The US thinks it’s Russia’s ally. The EU is supposed to be helping Ukraine. Israel is on a conquest mission, backed by the US, to colonize the Middle East. India and Pakistan have their thing going on. The US is threatening to invade Mexico, Canada, and Greenland. And that’s just a small slice of the world.
Do you not see how this can easily spiral into an absolute clusterfuck?
Happy 3rd war in the Middle East everyone!
Sure glad we dodged that Harris bullet though, right guys! I super wish I hadn’t voted like all the other cool kids though.
I have to say, the one good part of Trump in office is at least you lot aren’t lecturing people on why invading Iran is good, actually!
“BOTH SIDES!” say both the MAGAs and leftists in unison.
Yeah, you’re right. I’m sure the Democrats would not have supported Israel in Iran, same as how they didn’t support Israel in Yemen, or in Lebanon, or in Gaza, or in Syria, or in…
You’re doing the leftist reductive thing so complex issues become a simplistic “it’s all the system, man…”
This doesn’t make you look as clever as you think it does. It’ll eventually turn you into a conspiracy nut where everything is because of “them”. Please make an effort to stay on topic.
Oh, it’s not the “system, man”, it’s you. As in, you, @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca, personally. You are the exact person I’m thinking about when I say this, and it’s frankly amazing you decided to throw your hat in ring here, while simultaneously defending attacks on Iran elsewhere.
Aren’t you the genocide denialist?
Edit:
Aged like milk.
Do you deny that Iran is committing genocide. Then you’re the genocide denialist!
Or maybe we shouldn’t weaponize the word genocide and discuss serious issues like adults instead of playing word games?
On the internet words like terrorist, fascist, and genocide seemingly has lost all meaning. It’s just an expression of dumb emotions.
Yeah pretty much. Which is a little disturbing because with the waters so muddied, it makes it difficult to know when these things are really happening.
It’s already a problem when you say a country is fascist because the reply is often “well people call everything fascist now.” And they aren’t wrong.
Soon it will be “people call everything a genocide now.” The power of these words are getting diluted by attention seekers. It’s becoming a word that no longer grabs attention anymore.
They may enter definitional or rhetorical argumentation.
We’re reading wikipedia now?
Here’s some nice light reading on wikipedia for you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel
If Kamala had won, I (trans latina) would not have had to flee the US. But they’re both the exact same amirite? (I’m honestly a little grateful for that. The US is trash. I’m never moving back)
Edit: my point is that people are literally fleeing the US because it’s a sinking ship. Under Kamala, immigration and tourism wouldn’t have changed much
…Here’s a thought exercise for you: The year is 2028, Trump is running for a third term, and the Dem ticket is… IDK, Newsom/Buttigieg or whatever, and the big thinkers of the DNC have come up with a foolproof plan to steal away MAGA voters: they will agree with exterminating trans people, but! BUT! will firmly, and I mean FIRMLY stand behind gay marriage. And you’re trying to explain that both of those choices are unacceptable to you, and in response are met with an avalanche of mockery because “sure, yeah, one side wants gay marriage banned, but they’re both the exact same amirite?”
Seriously, though, best of luck. Not to assume stuff about your situation, but getting out sooner rather than later sounds like a good move.
Here’s a thought exercise for you:
Try it for a fucking change.
Ah yes you’re the victim in this story
“I would be alright”.
I don’t understand how anyone could be so blatant about their own mental gymnastics.
Are you not aware of the treaty? en.wikipedia.org/…/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Ac…
Or are you not aware that Obama won the Noble Peace Prize?
Or maybe you just don’t have a sense of humour so you think a joke about Obama getting the Nobel Prize before doing the treaty is “mental gymnastics”?
Ah, sorry a lot of folks here are getting a bit wacky with apologia, and I could see them actually putting forward the nobel peace price as an argument for Obama not being a war criminal, so I did take it a bit too seriously. Poe’s law I guess. My apologies!
That said, he is a war criminal though, and I feel like you’re cherry picking little bits out of all the presidencies to confirm your point.
Here’s an example in the other direction, maybe it’ll help you see how unconvincing an argument you’re making:
You’ll note that I omitted Bush. He was really bad. Like, Hitler bad. Not a redeeming quality about him.
At any rate the point is that every single president since Eisenhower, every single one, no exceptions, has been a war criminal, and pretending that any one of them was pro peace is a joke.
Well, at least your inability to do the bare minimum to keep a tyrant king from being elected resulted in you being able to find a bright side to all the suffering he has caused.
So happy for you
Man, you Americans really do think everything is some foreigner’s fault?
Well, when a clown pops in to argue against a comment that calls out AMERICANS that refused to vote in protest, one would assume said clown is American.
Forgive me, clown. The fault is my own.
The fact that you think the constant whining and blamecasting at nobody in particular constitutes a callout speaks volumes. And the fact that your first resort on being challenged is a barrage of insults speaks even more. Someone more intellectually minded might even use it as a jumping off point for some introspection, or see the parallel with US politics in general and foreign policy in particular - but, of course, that would risk recognizing the nose and rainbow hair as the reflection in the window pane that they are.
Honk-honk, Buttons. Honk-honk.
Cool story. But, I’m not going to get into a senseless slap fight with someone that is irrelevant to the topic, so you’re going to have to just go find the argument you’re so clearly desperate for- somewhere else.
Yeah sure. Kamala would never support Israel. Y’all are so braindead lol.
Kamala wouldn’t have started a war, and it’s pretty safe to assume she wouldn’t have done ANY of the additional kazillion crimes Trump has committed.
But sure. You go ahead and keep up the ruse that both sides are the same. I’ll ask though, that you take a look around and see that less and less people are buying that bullshit every day.
I’m not an American so what I see maybe different than what you see. But you know you would be lying if you say US would just allow iran to bomb tel aviv and sit watching. Both sides may not be same but both of em are held by balls by Israel.
I wouldn’t be lying because I don’t presume to know what would happen. You see, I’m one of those rare Americans that understand nuance- and how it actually works in the real world.
And through the use of this magical skill of nuance, I am able to understand, that the entire conflict with Iran, Israel, and Palestine is far more compacted than what a random blowhard on a podunk backwoods social media platform tries to assume.
There are more moving parts to this than you will ever understand. But that surely doesn’t stop you from trying to look like you know what you’re taking about, does it?
The point is- what we DO know, Harris wouldn’t be illegally deporting tens of thousands of people. She would t have abolished trans rights and gutted their healthcare. She wouldn’t have installed Elon and his good squad into America’s financial system. She wouldn’t have put a lunatic antivaxer in charge of our healthcare.
This we know. And I will debate this. However, to avoid coming off looking like people like you- I tend to avoid arguing about things I can’t know enough about to be certain.
Do better.
None of that is about intervening in the war. Do better.
ALL of it is relevant to my original point-which I’m not letting you distract from as you kids seem to love doing. And as long as I stick to the topic, everything you have to say will be irrelevant to it.
You might actually be slow. You are the one that’s being irrelevant. Anyways you made up your mind. I can’t change it. Like it or not Israel is your president. Kiss their boots like you have been doing for the last century
Grow up, kid.
Yankee go home. And stay there.
When the corporations start dividing your population and guaranteeing their own interests over democracy, look at what happened to us and learn from it. It doesn’t stop here.
Hey dude, we didn’t all vote for him
You remember when Russia invaded Ukraine, and the whole western world collectively decided being Russian made you ontologically evil?
Well, that.
Collectively Russian are good people. It’s all Putin’s fault.
I’m gonna need the world to do this to us Americans after this. Make us a pariah state. Toxic. Radioactive even. The announcement of joining hands with the US or US Corporations should be met with broad condemnations and a revisiting of treaties.
No, no we did not. Actions by a state doesn’t justify collectively dehumanising an entire population. Gazans didn’t become inherently evil because Hamas did October 7, Chinese aren’t inherently evil because of the Uighur Genocide, Russians aren’t inherently evil because of the invasion of Ukraine…
You may think that now, but I distinctly remember the then-prime minister of Estonia and current vice-president of the EC honouring a summit where the participants were carrying around a blow-up shark. Why a shark? Well, a random Russian tourist got killed in a shark attack some time earlier, and, well, dead Russian, ha-ha.
It’s good to see the sentiment has receded somewhat, but it is concerning that it literally took the tables turning to get people to self-reflect.
You mean the 1.000.000 russians who went to war? Yeah they were evil. The basic vatnic I don’t know. Putin and the Kremlin for sure.
I was kinda hoping the US would collapse into civil war before they helped start WW3.
Bugger.
The drives too long for your average US Citizen. at least that was the common excuse on the other site. “Drive is too long to DC” or “I have a job that’s tied to my medical insurance” Best they could do was ONE day of protest. On a Saturday.
We can do both.
So usa dropping another 1 trillion and 20 years for nothing?
We spent way more than one Trillion…
Im sure it will trickle back anyday now…any… day…
What do you mean for nothing? That’s $1Tril going to Trump’s buddies! /s
Defense contractors after hearing the bombings: <img alt="" src="https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/a9566f56-cd78-4d45-9ffc-cc8681a8707b.jpeg">
What do you mean nothing, think of all the billionaires adding more billions to their bank accounts, isn’t that what this country is all about
The American war machine was getting light pocketbooks. Gotta start another conflict.
Yea, the American MIC stocks are getting outpaced by European ones, we gotta start a new war to make the stocks up!
It’s called efficiency, look it up.
When it comes to democracy in foreign countries usa always go all in war, bombing civilians… but when it comes to their own democracy they are to scared they will do/say something that will get them cancelled
Democracy was not even mentioned by any one in the orange mans administration. The us is well past such excuses.
We need to remove this cyst of an administration before they start WW3
Some of them have.
Fuck all you Trumpers, this is your fault