DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org
on 12 Mar 2025 01:58
nextcollapse
Probably where it should’ve started all along.
Probably won’t see this on Reddit.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 12 Mar 2025 06:51
nextcollapse
Relevant quote from JFK:
Those who make peaceful protest impossible make violent revolution inevitable
Probably only a matter of time before there’s a lot of Italian plumbers all over Europe…
Naevermix@lemmy.world
on 12 Mar 2025 09:47
nextcollapse
Historically speaking, militant environmentalists have been targeting infrastructure, not people. The current mainstream movement is nonviolent to the point of absurdity, whereas their militant counterpart is basically nonexistent. It’s a bit counterintuitive if you think about it; a movement which objects to the very real violence that industry subjects both people and entire ecosystems to is completely nonviolent.
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 12 Mar 2025 11:50
collapse
The current mainstream movement is nonviolent to the point of absurdity, whereas their militant counterpart is basically nonexistent
That’s probably because the politicians in the pockets of the fossil fuel interests made laws declaring it terrorism, with ridiculously long prison sentences.
Now that they’re doing the same with peaceful protest, though, it’s no wonder that people are reverting to direct action.
Not much point in going with the least effective option as long as you’re only hurting corporations and the punishment is roughly the same 🤷
Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
on 12 Mar 2025 18:06
nextcollapse
Finally some prospect!
random_character_a@lemmy.world
on 13 Mar 2025 12:04
nextcollapse
Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 14 Mar 2025 07:35
collapse
I know. I wasn’t trying to self-censor. Mentioning Italy just felt like a fitting way to talk about Luigi in the context of Europe 🤷
Buffalox@lemmy.world
on 12 Mar 2025 09:22
nextcollapse
What a moronic headline?! UK is not Europe, and environmental protests are not criminalized in any other European country AFAIK.
Also there are rules for protests, if you break those, you may be arrested. Disregarding what the protest is about.
Edit:
To those that downvote, it’s the same as writing Asia is making something illegal, but it’s really only Thailand.
Please explain how that’s not moronic?
UK is in Europe. They have left the EU but are still in Europe.
Read the article, it mentions several EU countries where acts of sabotage have been increasing.
Criminalization does not mean “applying the laws”, or at least that is only one aspect of it. It can also mean creating new laws or even have nothing to do with the actual legal framework. In France for example, the government has taken the nasty habit of publically branding nature activists as terrorists. That is a form of criminalization even if it remains largely symbolical.
It can also mean that prosecution takes a harder stance or uses a different, harsher legal framework. In France again, vandalism and destruction of private or public property is of course illegal. However the definition of terrorism is rather loose and can also includes acts of sabotage.
So when nature activists break the law to perform acts of sabotage, the prosecution can choose to decide that it was vandalism and treat it as such, or as terrorism and treat it as such. The latter not only allows harsher punishment, but also gives police and prosecution much larger means and leeway, leveraging legislation that was passed not to fight political activism or sabotage, but as a reaction to a whole other kind of terrorism, you know, the kind that haphazardly murders dozens if not hundreds of citizens.
Criminalization can also mean allowing or encouraging the police to respond much more violently to peaceful protests, or the authorities trying to suppress various organisations taking isolated acts of sabotage as an excuse.
Edit: talking about France because that’s what I know best but there is a similar trend in several other Western European countries.
Buffalox@lemmy.world
on 12 Mar 2025 12:44
collapse
UK is in Europe.
Oh REALLY!!! Do you have MORE information everybody know???
How does that justify writing protests are being made illegal in Europe as if it’s all of Europe???
It’s a bullshit headline plain and simple.
It can also mean creating new laws
No not “also” that’s LITERALLY what it means, that laws are changed to make it illegal, when previously it was not. and that happened in UK under Boris Johnson. There is nothing comparable in other European countries.
Buffalox@lemmy.world
on 12 Mar 2025 19:45
collapse
#1 is in UK.
#2 Could have easily been done legally.
repressive legal measures taken by universities
Which they can only do because they didn’t do the protests legally.
#3 is about the same as #2.
None of these are environmental, and has absolutely zero saying on the headline that claim:
Europe Criminalizes Environmental Protest
And it doesn’t disprove that these protests could have been arranged legally. There are reasons why we have legal frameworks for protests. One of the reasons is that protests need to be peaceful. Violent protests are NOT democratic: en.wikipedia.org/…/January_6_United_States_Capito…
Amnesigenic@lemmy.world
on 12 Mar 2025 23:36
collapse
Peaceful protest has literally never accomplished anything without the credible threat of violence, you are delusional
Amnesigenic@lemmy.world
on 12 Mar 2025 23:35
collapse
Dead wrong, you are historically and politically illiterate
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 12 Mar 2025 16:31
collapse
environmental protests are not criminalized in any other European country AFAIK… there are rules for protests, if you break those, you may be arrested. Disregarding what the protest is about.
Real coherent. lol.
Buffalox@lemmy.world
on 12 Mar 2025 19:49
collapse
Yes that is coherent, there are rules to for instance avoid violent protests. Violent protests are not democratic, violence and lawlessness is how fascism rise.
Like for instance: en.wikipedia.org/…/January_6_United_States_Capito…
Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee
on 12 Mar 2025 18:02
nextcollapse
People in power pretend to forget that protesting is a needlessly polite form of reminding them of our struggles, needs, and injustices.
So far pretend to teach us how protesting is wrong. How the bigger of the two classes shouldn’t protest due to fear of consequences.
b161@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 13 Mar 2025 20:12
nextcollapse
Sabotage is more effective and requires smaller groups of people.
RubberElectrons@lemmy.world
on 13 Mar 2025 21:34
collapse
I don’t understand who would be dense enough to expect any other outcome here.
We’re talking about survival of the species long term, some of us absolutely are not afraid of “jail” or “juries” other than for it slowing their ability to foster change.
threaded - newest
Probably where it should’ve started all along.
Probably won’t see this on Reddit.
Relevant quote from JFK:
Probably only a matter of time before there’s a lot of Italian plumbers all over Europe…
Historically speaking, militant environmentalists have been targeting infrastructure, not people. The current mainstream movement is nonviolent to the point of absurdity, whereas their militant counterpart is basically nonexistent. It’s a bit counterintuitive if you think about it; a movement which objects to the very real violence that industry subjects both people and entire ecosystems to is completely nonviolent.
That’s probably because the politicians in the pockets of the fossil fuel interests made laws declaring it terrorism, with ridiculously long prison sentences.
Now that they’re doing the same with peaceful protest, though, it’s no wonder that people are reverting to direct action.
Not much point in going with the least effective option as long as you’re only hurting corporations and the punishment is roughly the same 🤷
Finally some prospect!
Mamma mia!
You can say Luigi here
I know. I wasn’t trying to self-censor. Mentioning Italy just felt like a fitting way to talk about Luigi in the context of Europe 🤷
What a moronic headline?! UK is not Europe, and environmental protests are not criminalized in any other European country AFAIK.
Also there are rules for protests, if you break those, you may be arrested. Disregarding what the protest is about.
Edit:
To those that downvote, it’s the same as writing Asia is making something illegal, but it’s really only Thailand.
Please explain how that’s not moronic?
PS: There are rules to prevent protests to turn violent, because violent protests are NOT democratic:
en.wikipedia.org/…/January_6_United_States_Capito…
UK is in Europe. They have left the EU but are still in Europe.
Read the article, it mentions several EU countries where acts of sabotage have been increasing.
Criminalization does not mean “applying the laws”, or at least that is only one aspect of it. It can also mean creating new laws or even have nothing to do with the actual legal framework. In France for example, the government has taken the nasty habit of publically branding nature activists as terrorists. That is a form of criminalization even if it remains largely symbolical.
It can also mean that prosecution takes a harder stance or uses a different, harsher legal framework. In France again, vandalism and destruction of private or public property is of course illegal. However the definition of terrorism is rather loose and can also includes acts of sabotage.
So when nature activists break the law to perform acts of sabotage, the prosecution can choose to decide that it was vandalism and treat it as such, or as terrorism and treat it as such. The latter not only allows harsher punishment, but also gives police and prosecution much larger means and leeway, leveraging legislation that was passed not to fight political activism or sabotage, but as a reaction to a whole other kind of terrorism, you know, the kind that haphazardly murders dozens if not hundreds of citizens.
Criminalization can also mean allowing or encouraging the police to respond much more violently to peaceful protests, or the authorities trying to suppress various organisations taking isolated acts of sabotage as an excuse.
Edit: talking about France because that’s what I know best but there is a similar trend in several other Western European countries.
Oh REALLY!!! Do you have MORE information everybody know???
How does that justify writing protests are being made illegal in Europe as if it’s all of Europe???
It’s a bullshit headline plain and simple.
No not “also” that’s LITERALLY what it means, that laws are changed to make it illegal, when previously it was not. and that happened in UK under Boris Johnson. There is nothing comparable in other European countries.
Wow. Chatgpt really is coming along.
If you think any protest anywhere ever is about following rules then you have completely missed the point of protest
Bullshit!!
Protests are part of the democratic process, and allowed in democracies.
Lol ok whatever. Keep telling yourself that.
#1 is in UK.
#2 Could have easily been done legally.
Which they can only do because they didn’t do the protests legally.
#3 is about the same as #2.
None of these are environmental, and has absolutely zero saying on the headline that claim:
And it doesn’t disprove that these protests could have been arranged legally. There are reasons why we have legal frameworks for protests. One of the reasons is that protests need to be peaceful. Violent protests are NOT democratic:
en.wikipedia.org/…/January_6_United_States_Capito…
Peaceful protest has literally never accomplished anything without the credible threat of violence, you are delusional
Dead wrong, you are historically and politically illiterate
Real coherent. lol.
Yes that is coherent, there are rules to for instance avoid violent protests. Violent protests are not democratic, violence and lawlessness is how fascism rise.
Like for instance:
en.wikipedia.org/…/January_6_United_States_Capito…
People in power pretend to forget that protesting is a needlessly polite form of reminding them of our struggles, needs, and injustices.
So far pretend to teach us how protesting is wrong. How the bigger of the two classes shouldn’t protest due to fear of consequences.
Sabotage is more effective and requires smaller groups of people.
I don’t understand who would be dense enough to expect any other outcome here.
We’re talking about survival of the species long term, some of us absolutely are not afraid of “jail” or “juries” other than for it slowing their ability to foster change.