from lemmee_in@lemm.ee to world@lemmy.world on 19 Aug 13:15
https://lemm.ee/post/40036591
Viktor Orbán, Hungary’s right-wing prime minister, has several populist policies, one of which has been to grow Hungary’s native population.
But early successes appear to be running out of steam in Hungary, as its birth rate is still falling despite huge incentives being offered to new parents.
Populations across Western Europe are struggling with falling birth rates, which threaten long-term economic growth and could create a healthcare crisis as fewer young people are forced to care for and subsidize an increasingly older population.
However, financial barriers, such as rising accommodation prices, are a major obstacle to childbearing, which has been compounded by the cost of living crisis. Changing workplace dynamics, with more women enjoying meaningful careers, also push back the average age for couples to have their first child.
Immigration is regarded as the most realistic way of maintaining an optimal average population age, but that has become highly politically contentious since the global financial crash.
Hungary is particularly sensitive to immigration, which Orbán has repeatedly argued would harm the country’s cultural fabric. From 2025, immigrants from non-EU countries will have to pass a Hungarian history and culture test to become residents of the country.
Instead, it is championing the classic populist policy of increased childbirth among natives.
“We do not need numbers, but Hungarian children,” Orbán said in his State of the Nation address in 2019 as he rolled out childbirth incentives.
To do so, Hungary is offering weighty financial incentives to up appearances in its hospital’s midwifery units.
In 2019, Hungary offered parents a €30,000 interest-free loan to spend on anything they wanted. The loan would be forgiven if they had three children.
Mothers of four children or more are exempt from paying income taxes under Orbán’s policy, which could be extended to those with fewer children.
Hungary’s birth rate rose through the 2010s, rising from a record low of 1.25 in 2011 to 1.61 in 2021. But in recent years, growth has halted. In June, Hungary registered a record-low number of 6,000 births.
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hey you. much for a kid. what! Im payiing 10k a head. Get away from me, I don't have children anyway. Thats alright go have some and you will get your dough.
I’d take a 30,000€ interest free loan. I’d be fine with it not being forgiven when I don’t have 3 children too.
The best way to destabilize authoritarian governments is to stop having children. Without the potential for infinite growth on the backs of the underpaid, the business class will have to be generous with compensation and down right responsible for the people working for them.
Far from it, they will encourage migration to maintain the supply of cheap labour.
In my country, it costs €250,000 per child. That €10k per child is like 4% of the total. That’s counting until 18 years. It gets worse when they go to higher education. Kids are damn expensive.
No way in hell does it cost 250k per child, are you saying that your country doesn’t have poor people with kids? These figures are normally wildly exaggerated and assume everything must be bought new, there are no grandparents to help out, and a host of other costs
Usually these costs are including education and childcare. In the US you can easily expect to pay around $1K / Month for full time child care between the ages of 6 months and 5 years (when they’ll start public school). Here’s a recent summary for major cities in Texas reflecting that amount: tootris.com/…/child-care-in-texas-can-cost-up-to-…
That’s over $40K just in childcare costs before entering school. Now, many people don’t have to pay this because they have family (or a non-working spouse) who assist; but from a cost perspective it’s fair to include.
Add on to that food, clothing and such… between ages it’s easy to see how some estimates can reach over $200K through age 18.
You’ve rounded up from 40k to 200k to account for food and clothing. I don’t see how 160k is spent on food and clothing? That’s ~8800/year on average, or 740/month
This is why I’m doubtful of the statistics, it just doesn’t add up when you try to nail it down. We recently got a child, and we’ve splurged on some things, but plenty we’ve been given by friends, neighbours, family or just found second hand for cheap. That obviously changed when they get older but I don’t see 740/month by any stretch
www.usda.gov/media/blog/…/cost-raising-child
The average household will move into a larger and more expensive home for raising children. That already adds a few hundred. Driving to school, various after school activities, camps and stuff adds an additional tank of gas. Once boys are teenagers, they’ll eat more than an adult, and adds a few hundred to the groceries. Driving education or in USA their first car isn’t free either. Not to mention medical costs.
Like they say here, small children, small worries. Big children, big worries.
You’re all assuming the USA, even though the original commenter said euros. That is an important distinction
In the Netherlands, kids cycle to school which is free, medical costs are zero for everyone under 18, and it’s common for kids to have bunk beds until secondary school. But I do agree on some of the costs, like food which is very expensive here.
Raising a child in Canada until age 18 costs a middle-income family approximately $293,000. The breakdown includes:
For lower-income families, the cost is around $238,190, while higher-income families spend about $403,910 per child[3][4]. These figures reflect data adjusted for inflation from 2014-2017 surveys.
Citations: [1] How expensive is raising a child in Canada? - CityNews Vancouver …citynews.ca/…/canada-cost-raising-child/ [2] The Cost of Raising a Child in Canada - My Money Matters rbcroyalbank.com/…/the-cost-of-raising-a-child-in… [3] Here’s how much it costs to raise children in Canada, according to new statistics - KTVZ ktvz.com/…/heres-how-much-it-costs-to-raise-child… [4] Thinking about having a kid? Here’s how much Canadians spend to … globalnews.ca/…/canada-family-spending-children-s… [5] How much does it cost to have children in Canada? - CTV News ctvnews.ca/…/here-s-how-much-it-costs-to-raise-ch… [6] The Cost Of Raising A Child | PlanEasy www.planeasy.ca/the-cost-of-raising-a-child/ [7] Estimating Expenditures on Children by Families in Canada, 2014 to … www150.statcan.gc.ca/…/11f0019m2023007-eng.htm [8] Question on the $250,000 amount on average to raise a child in Canada reddit.com/…/question_on_the_250000_amount_on_ave…
Keep in mind that the “housing” cost includes either moving to a bigger property, or simply assigning part of your current mortgage costs to your child. If your house is sufficiently large, there won’t be any much additional cost here beyond an increase in utility usage.
Similarly, transportation downloads a lot of the cost of a vehicle to your child. Maybe you do need a bigger car, in which case that makes sense. But maybe your car is fine, so the only added expense is gas and maintenance for the extra mileage for children’s activities.
Whenever I see articles on this subject I think that perhaps the answer is not more children, but planning how to manage an overall general decrease in population. Overpopulation is part of the trouble with how we deal with the environment, so perhaps we should embrace it rather than try to avoid it
Thr big problem with this is that pretty much all of our systems rely on infinite uninterrupted growth (e.g. social security) which is just not possible. Rather than tear it down and/or build new systems that dont rely on this, many people who have paid into the system feel ripped off that they have paid into it but will never see the benefits. The people currently collecting hold a lot of political and financial power and would never vote to interrupt that even for the benefit of future generations.
That won't provide a future workforce for the rich and/or powerful in an nationalist society though.
Can't be a shepherd if you don't have sheep.
If you give me £100,000 per child per year, I will definitely have children. And for that price I will be an incredible parent, holy shit.
You are definitely middle class! Absolutely not poor
At present I’m swimming with my nose barely in the working class and the rest of my body in the lumpenproletariat or precariat. I wish I was middle class.
Enjoy who you voted for
Tell ya what. I’ll consider another child in my own country if child care is provided by taxes on corporations, health care is largely subsidized by the same thing, and corporations stop hyper-inflating food costs for record profits.
Im from that same country.
Maybe you population shouldn’t grow if people can’t afford to live in a decent house