LOL… this is a new argument I’ve been noticing more & more. It goes something like this… “Hamas made Israel commit a genocide.” If I was paying $7,000 per comment on social media, I’d be asking for a refund for such low effort Israeli propaganda.
I never read about Jews attacking and killing thousands of Germans, capturing and holding a portion of German territory, and kidnapping hundreds of civilians.
I never read that Israel represents all Jews, nor how opposing genocide is antisemitic. I’d strongly argue that a country committing genocide while claiming to represent all Jews are actually engaging in antisemitism, especially since those they are genociding are semitic people.
SARGE@startrek.website
on 07 Oct 14:03
nextcollapse
People like this want you conflate “the country of Israel” with “all ethnic/religious Jewish people everywhere”
It allows them to more easily call people antisemitic when you criticize the Israeli government.
Even IF Israeli intelligence hadn’t ignored reports of potential attacks, and even IF they hadn’t intentionally lowered security in order to make potential attacks worse, all in order to give them and excuse to do the thing they already wanted to do, committing genocide in response is a FULL FUCKING STOP “no”
gedaliyah@lemmy.world
on 07 Oct 14:08
nextcollapse
Antisemitism refers specifically to hatred against Jews, not all Semitic people in general.
Just like antibiotics don’t kill all biological life. Words have meaning.
hi. cultural inheritor of the jewish identity here. a genocide in my name against my semitic cousins is antisemitic in that the core value of my jewish identity is standing against opression. to say that my identity is meant to be a particular form of oppressor is hate towards the jewish identity. that is how i read that other comment. yes. words do have meanings, and those meanings matter, and you have to look at them and take them on instead of just ignoring them like your comment did
They was attempt that would seriously hurt civilians. If they succeded it wouldn’t justify the holocust ike the jewish resistance group Nakam who attempted to poison water supplies
I like how you casually claim Hamas held Israeli territory IN THE FRONTIER OF OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND.
FFS. The Gaza Prison Breakout is analogous to the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, a response to 75 years of ethnic cleansing and shooting children in the knees for sport, 16 years of illegal military land sea and air siege where Israel calculated the caloric input to keep Palestinians in Gaza on a “starvation plus” diet.
I’ve never read about Palestinian children or moms or civilians attacking Israel in any way shape or form and yet the vast VAST VAST majority of these victims of GENOCIDE are innocent civilians that had NOTHING to do with Hamas.
I wouldn’t t give a single fuck if Israel obliterated every last member of Hamas in the sort of targeted surgical strikes that an advanced military/intelligence power like Israel is capable of, but instead they chose to level Gaza and starve it’s people into submission. Not even Putin’s Russia have been so egregious with their targeting of innocent civilians, meanwhile Gaza has an 83% CIVILIAN CASUALTY RATE
Stop wasting time trying to convince people blatant genocide isn’t genocide. Stop being a fucking genocidal Nazi.
They won’t permit any social-services to be neutral, they won’t permit any operating-business to be neutral, they won’t tolerate neutrality.
Same as the zionists won’t.
Ideology is threatened by neutrality, so they force-eradicate it, wherever it tries growing.
Leninism eradicates considered-reasoning from “education” in order to produce the ideological-population that Leninism wants,
exactly the same as the Republicans eradicate considered-reasoning from their “education”, in order to produce the ideological-population that their ideology wants.
Ideology HATES neutrality, rabidly
The ONLY way that Palestine could possibly have been kept from this, is if decades ago the UN had displaced all the ideologues from authority in the territory, & absolutely-blocked them from from even influencing gov’t, essential-services, education, etc, until 3-ish generations of people had grown-up in that considered-reasoning-and-meritocracy paradigm,
& then the ideologues-murdering-considered-reasoning-from-our-world would be retired-out from all authority
( Max Planck’s ~ Science progresses funeral by funeral: as the old-guard die off, the population becomes made-of people who grew-up-with the new paradigm, & they accept it ~ is exactly this principle, simply in a different domain )
But NO ideology would tolerate that: not zionist not hamas.
So, genociding it is, then, inevitably…
Until the rampaging-rabies has overwhelmed the entire world, all religions, all political-ideologies, all food-insecurity-migrations, all supremacisms, all together, combined, & then humankind can manufacture the “apocalypse” that makes its unconscious-mind/ego feel important ( which is mostly what’s really going on, during this ClimatePunctuation, tbh )
The Great Filter: unconscious-mind’s ego-rabies rampaging in a manufactured ClimatePunctuation, trying to prove that ego-importance and unconscious-ignorance is “THE ONLY GOD”, until … until there’s nothing left.
We’re failing The Great Filter, iow, & digging our world-species’s grave, with every such torquing/ignoring.
Here’s another angle:
Have you noticed that the “populist” ideologues are gaining power throughout the West?
They’re no-more tolerating of neutrality than hamas or the zionists are.
It isn’t just the people in Palestine who got highjacked & machiavellianly pwned, it is us, too!
We’re just not-yet at the final-butchery stage, yet ( wait a few more years, & look around the remains of our countries … & see, then, what happens when right-wing ideologues, equivalents to hamas, rule our countries )
ttbomk, the “fear the Jews: they are behind all evil” conspiracist-nationalists do hold such things to be true.
And they are vocal about it, so your not having heard about such things doesn’t mean that such assertions are not made.
I was told, a few decades ago, that in Europe the centuries-long sequence went sorta like this:
Jews are farmers
conspiracist-nationalists spread fear about “Jews are taking/owning all our farmland”, so therefore…
farmland gets taken away from Jews, which means, that they have to earn a living by other means, so therefore
they become clockmakers, lawyers, doctors, etc, which therefore
creates leverage for conspiracists to assert that they’re conspiring & taking all these skilled-work jobs, because it’s their world-subjugation program…
etc…
IOW, it doesn’t matter what people do: prejudice is going to claim “justification”, relentlessly.
Machiavellianism is a mental-illness, or worse, a hardwiring-of-brain.
what point do you think this proves? you think this genocide being part of a larger war initiated by the side committing the genocide makes it okay? because that’s how this reads. i do not endorse hamas or any of their actions, but that does not justify killing hundreds of civilians every day for 2 years. nothing does. and israel being a settler colonial project also does not in any way make this fine, that’s completely absurd
If you’re going to steal land & displace a million people, don’t be surprised when they revolt. The whole world sees Israel as the colonizing imperialists they’ve always been, and the colonizing monarchy that claimed back then Zionists could steal the land have ragrets.
I wish all I needed to tell me what to trust is a simple graph. According to that, I should be relying a lot more on CNN & NYT. If a majority of Americans don’t know at this point that MSM media outlets & politicians on both sides are highly influenced by the Israeli lobby, then they might as well start sending their taxpayer dollars to Israel themself.
mmcintyre@lemmy.world
on 07 Oct 11:53
nextcollapse
I’m like… that’s right, Israel didn’t just start their shit in 2023, they’ve been attacking Palestinians and assassinating Israelis who wanted anything else my whole life… but then I kept reading.
This whole site has strong bias and miced facts see this link :
Bias Rating: FAR LEFT
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: United Kingdom
MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE
Media Type: Organization/Foundation
Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: MEDIUM CREDIBILITY
Also , the BBC is deliberately being targeted of foreign disinformation and influence campaigns, particularly from state-sponsored actors seeking to discredit its reporting. Not saying they are perfect, but they are discredited by the Zino- Rizzian propaganda machine.
okwithmydecay@leminal.space
on 07 Oct 12:42
nextcollapse
There is no denying that Novara Media has a left-wing bias, however is there any news outlet that has unbiased reporting of this conflict?
Opposing objective bad things is not biases. Israel is the settler colonial power who been occupying Gaza and the west bank for 57 years and oppressing Palestinians for 78 years
Once Israel end occupation, i will stop criticizing Israel
Added.
Ah I see , you edited your original comment I reacted to, by adding a whole new context; after I had reacted. Talking about good faith. Well, whatever.
Careful with these kind of bias or fact checkers, as they’re only relevant on the left/center/right axis, which is a biased framework in and of itself. A centered position, which these checkers claim to be the least biased, are absolutely dependant on the Overton window and that window is currently so far off to the right, that any slightly leftist position might seem radical or even unthinkable.
It also only makes sense, if you are some kind of hyper centrist, absolutely ignoring what “right” and “left” actually mean and then proclaim that the center is a good thing and any extreme perspective off from the center is a bad thing. That’s either willfully ignorant or a right-wing perspective trying to appease to unpolitical people.
This fact checker also proclaims mixed factual reporting in their summary, but in the segment it says “Failed Fact Checks: None in the Last 5 years”. This is dumb and misleading.
One can see this kind of bias by them branding “concern for climate change, and racial-social equality” as far-left perspectives, while a sane person would see these things as the fucking bare minimum. Everything less than that is de facto regressive and right-wing.
Ofc. But you are only talking about the Left/ Right Pol. spectrum. Its the " Mixed Reporting" bit which to me is relevant.
Also, if I were to report for example about Trump from the Rep. or Right side, would you say the same? Or if I used a zionist new-soutlet. Not that I would though, it’s an example.
Overall, we rate Novara Media Far-Left Biased based on editorial positions that favor anti-capitalism and the promotion of Luxury Communism. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to the use of poor sources and one-sided hyper-partisan perspectives. (D. Van Zandt 05/08/2022) Updated (02/21/2024)
Reason number what 20 why mbfc is terrible at being both a bias checker and fact checker.
threaded - newest
LOL… this is a new argument I’ve been noticing more & more. It goes something like this… “Hamas made Israel commit a genocide.” If I was paying $7,000 per comment on social media, I’d be asking for a refund for such low effort Israeli propaganda.
"Jews started this when they blah blah blah…"
I never read about Jews attacking and killing thousands of Germans, capturing and holding a portion of German territory, and kidnapping hundreds of civilians.
I never read that Israel represents all Jews, nor how opposing genocide is antisemitic. I’d strongly argue that a country committing genocide while claiming to represent all Jews are actually engaging in antisemitism, especially since those they are genociding are semitic people.
People like this want you conflate “the country of Israel” with “all ethnic/religious Jewish people everywhere”
It allows them to more easily call people antisemitic when you criticize the Israeli government.
Even IF Israeli intelligence hadn’t ignored reports of potential attacks, and even IF they hadn’t intentionally lowered security in order to make potential attacks worse, all in order to give them and excuse to do the thing they already wanted to do, committing genocide in response is a FULL FUCKING STOP “no”
Antisemitism refers specifically to hatred against Jews, not all Semitic people in general.
Just like antibiotics don’t kill all biological life. Words have meaning.
hi. cultural inheritor of the jewish identity here. a genocide in my name against my semitic cousins is antisemitic in that the core value of my jewish identity is standing against opression. to say that my identity is meant to be a particular form of oppressor is hate towards the jewish identity. that is how i read that other comment. yes. words do have meanings, and those meanings matter, and you have to look at them and take them on instead of just ignoring them like your comment did
Yeah: how come Israel now pretends that Arabs are not semitic??
& how come everybody’s been accommodating that?
“Anti-semitic” originally meant anti semitic people, which included Jews & Arabs, both…
en.wikipedia.org/…/Ancient_Semitic-speaking_peopl…
And multiple other peoples, too! ( I didn’t know, until now! : )
_ /\ _
They was attempt that would seriously hurt civilians. If they succeded it wouldn’t justify the holocust ike the jewish resistance group Nakam who attempted to poison water supplies
I like how you casually claim Hamas held Israeli territory IN THE FRONTIER OF OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN LAND.
FFS. The Gaza Prison Breakout is analogous to the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, a response to 75 years of ethnic cleansing and shooting children in the knees for sport, 16 years of illegal military land sea and air siege where Israel calculated the caloric input to keep Palestinians in Gaza on a “starvation plus” diet.
I’ve never read about Palestinian children or moms or civilians attacking Israel in any way shape or form and yet the vast VAST VAST majority of these victims of GENOCIDE are innocent civilians that had NOTHING to do with Hamas.
I wouldn’t t give a single fuck if Israel obliterated every last member of Hamas in the sort of targeted surgical strikes that an advanced military/intelligence power like Israel is capable of, but instead they chose to level Gaza and starve it’s people into submission. Not even Putin’s Russia have been so egregious with their targeting of innocent civilians, meanwhile Gaza has an 83% CIVILIAN CASUALTY RATE
Stop wasting time trying to convince people blatant genocide isn’t genocide. Stop being a fucking genocidal Nazi.
ttbomk, hamas won’t allow non-involvement:
They won’t permit any social-services to be neutral, they won’t permit any operating-business to be neutral, they won’t tolerate neutrality.
Same as the zionists won’t.
Ideology is threatened by neutrality, so they force-eradicate it, wherever it tries growing.
Leninism eradicates considered-reasoning from “education” in order to produce the ideological-population that Leninism wants,
exactly the same as the Republicans eradicate considered-reasoning from their “education”, in order to produce the ideological-population that their ideology wants.
Ideology HATES neutrality, rabidly
The ONLY way that Palestine could possibly have been kept from this, is if decades ago the UN had displaced all the ideologues from authority in the territory, & absolutely-blocked them from from even influencing gov’t, essential-services, education, etc, until 3-ish generations of people had grown-up in that considered-reasoning-and-meritocracy paradigm,
& then the ideologues-murdering-considered-reasoning-from-our-world would be retired-out from all authority
( Max Planck’s ~ Science progresses funeral by funeral: as the old-guard die off, the population becomes made-of people who grew-up-with the new paradigm, & they accept it ~ is exactly this principle, simply in a different domain )
But NO ideology would tolerate that: not zionist not hamas.
So, genociding it is, then, inevitably…
Until the rampaging-rabies has overwhelmed the entire world, all religions, all political-ideologies, all food-insecurity-migrations, all supremacisms, all together, combined, & then humankind can manufacture the “apocalypse” that makes its unconscious-mind/ego feel important ( which is mostly what’s really going on, during this ClimatePunctuation, tbh )
The Great Filter: unconscious-mind’s ego-rabies rampaging in a manufactured ClimatePunctuation, trying to prove that ego-importance and unconscious-ignorance is “THE ONLY GOD”, until … until there’s nothing left.
We’re failing The Great Filter, iow, & digging our world-species’s grave, with every such torquing/ignoring.
Here’s another angle:
Have you noticed that the “populist” ideologues are gaining power throughout the West?
They’re no-more tolerating of neutrality than hamas or the zionists are.
It isn’t just the people in Palestine who got highjacked & machiavellianly pwned, it is us, too!
We’re just not-yet at the final-butchery stage, yet ( wait a few more years, & look around the remains of our countries … & see, then, what happens when right-wing ideologues, equivalents to hamas, rule our countries )
_ /\ _
ttbomk, the “fear the Jews: they are behind all evil” conspiracist-nationalists do hold such things to be true.
And they are vocal about it, so your not having heard about such things doesn’t mean that such assertions are not made.
I was told, a few decades ago, that in Europe the centuries-long sequence went sorta like this:
etc…
IOW, it doesn’t matter what people do: prejudice is going to claim “justification”, relentlessly.
Machiavellianism is a mental-illness, or worse, a hardwiring-of-brain.
Here’s some objectivity, however…
statista.com/…/palestinian-territories-israel-num…
How about you go back to Voat?
Lulz, that hasn’t existed for years.
what point do you think this proves? you think this genocide being part of a larger war initiated by the side committing the genocide makes it okay? because that’s how this reads. i do not endorse hamas or any of their actions, but that does not justify killing hundreds of civilians every day for 2 years. nothing does. and israel being a settler colonial project also does not in any way make this fine, that’s completely absurd
You’re leaving out the most pertinent details, their bruh:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
If you’re going to steal land & displace a million people, don’t be surprised when they revolt. The whole world sees Israel as the colonizing imperialists they’ve always been, and the colonizing monarchy that claimed back then Zionists could steal the land have ragrets.
I wish all I needed to tell me what to trust is a simple graph. According to that, I should be relying a lot more on CNN & NYT. If a majority of Americans don’t know at this point that MSM media outlets & politicians on both sides are highly influenced by the Israeli lobby, then they might as well start sending their taxpayer dollars to Israel themself.
Go back to reddit zionazi
Coward
Fun fact: nothing justifies genocide. Nothing.
There is no denying that Novara Media are left-wing, they proudly wear that badge. Is it possible to cover a war without opinion or an agenda?
First sentence was correct. Your version sounds like more Zionist victim bullshit to me.
First letter is wrong. Stopped reading after it was Zionazi genocide loving bullshit to me.
Go back to reddit, troll.
I’m like… that’s right, Israel didn’t just start their shit in 2023, they’ve been attacking Palestinians and assassinating Israelis who wanted anything else my whole life… but then I kept reading.
This whole site has strong bias and miced facts see this link :
Bias Rating: FAR LEFT Factual Reporting: MIXED Country: United Kingdom MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: MOSTLY FREE Media Type: Organization/Foundation Traffic/Popularity: Medium Traffic MBFC Credibility Rating: MEDIUM CREDIBILITY
Also , the BBC is deliberately being targeted of foreign disinformation and influence campaigns, particularly from state-sponsored actors seeking to discredit its reporting. Not saying they are perfect, but they are discredited by the Zino- Rizzian propaganda machine.
There is no denying that Novara Media has a left-wing bias, however is there any news outlet that has unbiased reporting of this conflict?
So what are you saying? all media is biased. so doesn’t matter?
I am saying that all media has a bias, but I am not saying that doesn’t matter. I’d argue that Novara Media is quite transparent about its bias.
Being transparent is better than lying about it
Had never heard of this site before, that’s why I checked.
Yes… Democracy Now for example, but they’d probably be considered even more left for reporting the truth.
So does reality.
But some people are, perplexingly, still concerned with “being fair”.
Many bbc journalists admit that bbc was biased towards Israel and use your brain instead of “factcheckers”
So they did.
Now you sound pedantic.
It is not pedantic to not trust factcheckers blindly. Even factcheckers has biases
And so do you.
Opposing objective bad things is not biases. Israel is the settler colonial power who been occupying Gaza and the west bank for 57 years and oppressing Palestinians for 78 years
Once Israel end occupation, i will stop criticizing Israel
You are not discussing in good faith.
Added. Ah I see , you edited your original comment I reacted to, by adding a whole new context; after I had reacted. Talking about good faith. Well, whatever.
Haha typical response when you don’t have any arguments
Careful with these kind of bias or fact checkers, as they’re only relevant on the left/center/right axis, which is a biased framework in and of itself. A centered position, which these checkers claim to be the least biased, are absolutely dependant on the Overton window and that window is currently so far off to the right, that any slightly leftist position might seem radical or even unthinkable.
It also only makes sense, if you are some kind of hyper centrist, absolutely ignoring what “right” and “left” actually mean and then proclaim that the center is a good thing and any extreme perspective off from the center is a bad thing. That’s either willfully ignorant or a right-wing perspective trying to appease to unpolitical people.
This fact checker also proclaims mixed factual reporting in their summary, but in the segment it says “Failed Fact Checks: None in the Last 5 years”. This is dumb and misleading.
One can see this kind of bias by them branding “concern for climate change, and racial-social equality” as far-left perspectives, while a sane person would see these things as the fucking bare minimum. Everything less than that is de facto regressive and right-wing.
Ofc. But you are only talking about the Left/ Right Pol. spectrum. Its the " Mixed Reporting" bit which to me is relevant.
Also, if I were to report for example about Trump from the Rep. or Right side, would you say the same? Or if I used a zionist new-soutlet. Not that I would though, it’s an example.
Reason number what 20 why mbfc is terrible at being both a bias checker and fact checker.
Which is why the Germans just had to exterminate the jews. I mean, they burned down the Reichstag building, what were they supposed to do?
Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself.
Am I doing it right?
Fun fact: History did not start on October 7th.
Israel did every crime hamas did on 7 of october. Israel stsrted the conflict by ethenic cleansing