Islamists or Zionists, I know which one I’d put my money on the next time there’s a random terrorist attack somewhere in the western world…
The Palestinians were handed a nation on a silver platter after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, but they were too stupid and greedy for their own good and decided to wage an unsuccessful war of genocide against Israel in 1947, only to have the entire thing blow up in their face and cost them almost half of their territory. Sound familiar?
NatakuNox@lemmy.world
on 19 Nov 06:20
nextcollapse
Uhhhhhh what does that have to do with a 7 year old starving to death in Gaza? Honestly you just showed your hand. Good bye bigot. I already have you blocked and screened
Uhhhhhh what does that have to do with a 7 year old starving to death in Gaza?
What does “a 7 year old starving to death in Gaza” have to do with anything we were talking about?
People have been successfully living, thriving even, on every edge of the Mediterranean Sea since human pre-history, If people who lived there ~4000 years could figure out how to fish and farm, then I’m sure the Palestinians can to, regardless of how much they’ve failed to elect effective and reasonable leaders in favor of Islamic militant groups like Hamas. Put down the AK-47 and pick up a fishing rod, and the starvation issue goes away.
Honestly you just showed your hand. Good bye bigot.
Like all religions, Islam is a cult, an ideology that people choose to subscribe to and potentially become radicalized by. It is not above scrutiny or criticism.
Other than that it’s just a matter of historical record that the Arab League attacked Israel in the 1940s, entering a war that they ultimately lost and thus ending up in a worse position with lost territory as a result. The very definition of “fuck around and find out”. en.wikipedia.org/…/Arab_League_and_the_Arab–Israe…
Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
> Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.
> Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.
- Page 105
> Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986.
- page 240
>In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.
- Page 402
- The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
- Gaza Policy Forum summary: Experts agree that Israel’s dual-use policy causes acute distress
>The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.
- Amnesty International Report pg 26-27
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders fo
Zionism is a Settler Colonialist Ideology that planned the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1947
Partition
> The Zionist position changed in 1928, when the pragmatic Palestinian leaders agreed to the principle of parity in a rare moment in which clannish and religious differences were overcome for the sake of consensus. The Palestinian leaders feared that without parity the Zionists would gain control of the political system. The unexpected Palestinian agreement threw the Zionist leaders into temporary confusion. When they recovered, they sent a refusal to the British, but at the same time offered an alternative solution: the partitioning of Palestine into two political units.
- Pg 132 of Ilan Pappe - A History of Modern Palestine
> On 31 August 1947, UNSCOP presented its recommendations to the UN General Assembly. Three of its members were allowed to put forward an alternative recommendation. The majority report advocated the partition of Palestine into two states, with an economic union. The designated Jewish state was to have most of the coastal area, western Galilee, and the Negev, and the rest was to become the Palestinian state. The minority report proposed a unitary state in Palestine based on the principle of democracy. It took considerable American Jewish lobbying and American diplomatic pressure, as well as a powerful speech by the Russian ambassador to the UN, to gain the necessary two-thirds majority in the Assembly for partition. Even though hardly any Palestinian or Arab diplomat made an effort to promote the alternative scheme, it won an equal number of supporters and detractors, showing that a considerable number of member states realized that imposing partition amounted to supporting one side and opposing the other.
- Pg 181 of Ilan Pappe - A History of Modern Palestine
Ethnic Cleansing and Settler Colonialism
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
- The Transfer Committee, and the JNF Ethnic Cleansing, which led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate before the Nakba
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
- Plan Dalet
- Declassified Massacres of 1948
- Details of Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948) .
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
- Haaretz, Forward
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
- (Oslo Accord Sources: MEE,NYT,Haaretz,AJ).
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
- m.btselem.org/settler_violence
homura1650@lemmy.world
on 19 Nov 00:42
nextcollapse
You don’t make peace with your friends. You make peace with your enemies.
Unless you actually plan on commiting a full scale and thorough genocide, eliminating terrorists is simply not a viable strategy for defeating terrorism. If you don’t go all the way to genocide, then a sizable portion of the non-terrorists you didn’t kill will become terrorist
You act as if people in Hamas and Hezbollah have no agency in the matter.
Becoming a terrorist isn’t some predetermined act of destiny, it’s a deliberate life choice–the cost of which is having your dick blown off by an exploding pager.
Why did they kill Haniyeh when he was the guy they were negotiating with as Hamas’s head diplomat? All while both sides were apparently “days away from an agreement”?
threaded - newest
Zio terrorism is completely normal.
How can there be a negotiations if they keep killing the person on the other side of negotiations?!
You don’t negotiate with terrorists, you eliminate them.
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter… All Zionest are terrorists too so if that’s the standard…
Islamists or Zionists, I know which one I’d put my money on the next time there’s a random terrorist attack somewhere in the western world…
The Palestinians were handed a nation on a silver platter after the fall of the Ottoman Empire, but they were too stupid and greedy for their own good and decided to wage an unsuccessful war of genocide against Israel in 1947, only to have the entire thing blow up in their face and cost them almost half of their territory. Sound familiar?
Uhhhhhh what does that have to do with a 7 year old starving to death in Gaza? Honestly you just showed your hand. Good bye bigot. I already have you blocked and screened
What does “a 7 year old starving to death in Gaza” have to do with anything we were talking about?
People have been successfully living, thriving even, on every edge of the Mediterranean Sea since human pre-history, If people who lived there ~4000 years could figure out how to fish and farm, then I’m sure the Palestinians can to, regardless of how much they’ve failed to elect effective and reasonable leaders in favor of Islamic militant groups like Hamas. Put down the AK-47 and pick up a fishing rod, and the starvation issue goes away.
Like all religions, Islam is a cult, an ideology that people choose to subscribe to and potentially become radicalized by. It is not above scrutiny or criticism.
Other than that it’s just a matter of historical record that the Arab League attacked Israel in the 1940s, entering a war that they ultimately lost and thus ending up in a worse position with lost territory as a result. The very definition of “fuck around and find out”. en.wikipedia.org/…/Arab_League_and_the_Arab–Israe…
🙉
Gaza has never stopped being under Israeli occupation since 1967. Hamas only exists because of the Apartheid Occupation of Israel and the daily violence that has subjected Palestinians to for generations. Israel has always been the obstacle for peace, and has been the one preventing a ceasefire.
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
> Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah. > Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah. - Page 105 > Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. - page 240 >In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60% over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50% decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (combined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million. - Page 402 - The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid. After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted. - Gaza Policy Forum summary: Experts agree that Israel’s dual-use policy causes acute distress >The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials. - Amnesty International Report pg 26-27
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders fo
Zionism is a Settler Colonialist Ideology that planned the ethnic cleansing of Palestine in 1947
Partition
> The Zionist position changed in 1928, when the pragmatic Palestinian leaders agreed to the principle of parity in a rare moment in which clannish and religious differences were overcome for the sake of consensus. The Palestinian leaders feared that without parity the Zionists would gain control of the political system. The unexpected Palestinian agreement threw the Zionist leaders into temporary confusion. When they recovered, they sent a refusal to the British, but at the same time offered an alternative solution: the partitioning of Palestine into two political units. - Pg 132 of Ilan Pappe - A History of Modern Palestine > On 31 August 1947, UNSCOP presented its recommendations to the UN General Assembly. Three of its members were allowed to put forward an alternative recommendation. The majority report advocated the partition of Palestine into two states, with an economic union. The designated Jewish state was to have most of the coastal area, western Galilee, and the Negev, and the rest was to become the Palestinian state. The minority report proposed a unitary state in Palestine based on the principle of democracy. It took considerable American Jewish lobbying and American diplomatic pressure, as well as a powerful speech by the Russian ambassador to the UN, to gain the necessary two-thirds majority in the Assembly for partition. Even though hardly any Palestinian or Arab diplomat made an effort to promote the alternative scheme, it won an equal number of supporters and detractors, showing that a considerable number of member states realized that imposing partition amounted to supporting one side and opposing the other. - Pg 181 of Ilan Pappe - A History of Modern Palestine
Ethnic Cleansing and Settler Colonialism
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades. This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice. - The Transfer Committee, and the JNF Ethnic Cleansing, which led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate before the Nakba The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948: - Plan Dalet - Declassified Massacres of 1948 - Details of Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948) . Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967: - Haaretz, Forward While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements - (Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ). The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians. - m.btselem.org/settler_violence
Apartheid Evidence
Amnesty Report Human Rights Watch Report B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4ff554fe-39d5-4e28-8fc3-3f5cd63ff2d7.jpeg">
You don’t make peace with your friends. You make peace with your enemies.
Unless you actually plan on commiting a full scale and thorough genocide, eliminating terrorists is simply not a viable strategy for defeating terrorism. If you don’t go all the way to genocide, then a sizable portion of the non-terrorists you didn’t kill will become terrorist
You act as if people in Hamas and Hezbollah have no agency in the matter.
Becoming a terrorist isn’t some predetermined act of destiny, it’s a deliberate life choice–the cost of which is having your dick blown off by an exploding pager.
A good example of this is the Taliban.
So Israel should be eliminated?
<img alt="" src="https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/e6a13ca8-2d90-45d4-918f-f40dcde813f8.jpeg">
Why did they kill Haniyeh when he was the guy they were negotiating with as Hamas’s head diplomat? All while both sides were apparently “days away from an agreement”?