from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 15 Mar 23:03
https://lemmy.world/post/44312761
UK and Japan among countries that are considering options but yet to commit warships to blockaded shipping route
Countries including the UK, Japan, China and South Korea have said they are still considering their options but without making commitments after the US president, Donald Trump, urged them to send warships to the strait of Hormuz to secure the vital shipping route.
The effective closure of the strait of Hormuz by Tehran, in retaliation for airstrikes by the US and Israel, has proved catastrophic for global energy and trade flows, causing the largest oil supply disruption in history and soaring global oil prices.
However, the international response to Trump’s call for the dispatch of warships has so far proved vague and reluctant, with countries unwilling to commit to a military response that could prove treacherous for their navies.
#world
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NO country should side with Trump unless Trump is open to negotiated-ceasefire/settlement.
Otherwise, they’re just backing baldfaced imperialism.
& the minute that Trump decides that negotiated isn’t on the table anymore?
Withdraw support.
Principles are what no political-gov’t can have the spine to have, though.
_ /\ _
I have to respectfully disagree. There is no such thing as “negotiation” with Trump and his admin. Serial bad faith actors with no checks and balances from courts or congress. They have no rule of law. It’s a tin pot dictatorship where no deals are ever honoured.
It is pointless to engage at any level. They act and react, everyone else acts and reacts. That’s it. When Trump is dead, the same rules apply because the courts and congress are still populated with the same people that enabled him.
We can save a lot of time and money and just eject US embassies worldwide for at least the next 20 years. US Diplomacy is dead.
Its not dead, its just resting
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He blew it with the Norwegians over the peace prize.
Ummm… no country should do this unless they have super effective defenses against USV (naval drones)
afaik, no country on this planet has that ability.
NO country should side with Trump. Doesn’t need to be more reason.
Nobody should trust anything Trump says he will do, much less anything he would be ’open to’.
The price of energy means that some countries are very much incentivised to do that. Iran is targeting them by intercepting/blocking shipments.
Does just mean that it’s much more complicated than being a clear no.
the us just constantly violates ceasefires and agreements anyway, and have been like this for many decades.
it makes no sense to make a deal with them expecting anything other than buying time until they are inevitably backstabbed.
iran itself refrained from nukes with the agreement that it would be left alone by the empire lmao
Good. Fuck the US, Israel and Trump. And fuck anyone and everyone that supports this pedophilic nazi piece of shit.
Suppose They Gave a War and No One Came.
Suppose we started a war but the other side didn’t want to finish when we did
Then you didn’t start a war, you started a problem.
I’m fairly certain that Putin approves.
This seems to suggest that shitting on our allies, behaving erratically, and stabbing them in the back (and front) isn’t the best way to build a broad coalition devoted to mutual interests, to say nothing of a narrow coalition devoted to obvious imperialism. I look forward to learning more about this hypothesis in The Art of the Deal 2.
Also suggests Trump floated the idea with the press before discussion in detail with, you know, the actual people who would be sending the boats
Even Bush had a coalition of the willing.
I guarantee you they have not made that connection at all.
Everyone is heavily incentivized to watch Trump sweat a bit more.
I imagine there are very few leaders who wouldn’t be happy to see Trump replaced.
Why would we come to his aid to mitigate this catastrophic unforced error.
The US has fucked everyone. I’ve literally been angry about it for a decade now.
The dildo of consequence rarely arrives lubed.
There isn’t a lot of reason for any world leaders to help Trump at the moment. Our strategic oil reserves had some oil in them, it’s always a good idea to make sure you have lots of reserve oil before attacking an petrostate, so we can just sit it out for a couple of months.
Also it takes time to ready a naval fleet they’re not just sitting around on the off chance that some despotic old fart causes an international incident for literally no reason at all.
So between taking the time to equip and it being strategically advantageous to hold off for a while no one’s coming to help any time soon. Also the war is extremely unpopular with the public so there’s not a lot of reason for international politicians to damage their reputations, it’s not like Trump would be grateful.
If Trump doesn’t TACO in the next 6 months then maybe there will be some ships.
I don’t think Trump really can TACO on this one. I’m certain that he would like to turn this one off but Iran will continue attacking US allies in the region.
An easy offramp without resolving nuclear issue is the US will agree to leave if SoH shipping is open to all but Israel. Israel and Iran can make their own deal. This is harder to spin as a victory than buying Iran’s uranium, but it’s something Iran would agree to.
There isn’t even “a nuclear issue” that’s just a made-up nonsense story from the White House with absolutely no basis in fact.
Does Iran want to develop nuclear weapons, well probably. Are they developing nuclear weapons, no.
So what’s the problem?
In terms of a country likely to develop illicit nuclear weapons I would be much more concerned Israel ramping up their supply but surprise surprise Trump doesn’t think that’s a concern.
The United States itself is well outside weapons range, it’s not even clear that they could hit Northern Europe, (Cyprus is the most northernly target they’ve hit so far) so this war is only happening because the US has military forces in the region. If they just left, the war would end, by necessity.
While the real motive for Iran antagonism is to permit more Israel genocide and expansion, there is a lot of “political capital” invested in ending Iranian nuclear program. Buying Iran’s uranium at a high price can satisfy both US victory over denuclearization, and Iran’s demand for reparations as well as trade normalization.
The economic situation will force Trump to negotiate with Iran or the general public will lynch him. Iran’s big problem is that the Americans are attacking them so if they stopped doing that and went away Iran could spin it as a victory and Trump can just lie about it and claim that Iran gave massive concessions which never happened. It’s not like MAGAs will fact check.
I dont think thats true at all.
An external aggressor allows the Iranian regime to consolidate their support.
I dont think they have much incentive to end this war.
The documentaries in ten or twenty years are gonna slap
… If we get there
If he had consulted his allies BEFORE starting this mess, he would now receive more than indifference and contempt.
He pooped on his allies so they’ve turned their backs on him.
He is just looking for someone to be left holding the bag that he has already filled with shit.
Israel.
Israel is the perfect scapegoat on this, all trump has to do is pull his ships back and stop being a defense for Israel.
That’s literally what the American Christian right has always wanted with their support of Israel too.
Their doomsday prophecy is:
Jewish ethnostate in Israel
War in the Middle East, started by Israel
Israel getting wiped off the map which causes the rapture
Nonbelivers have to experience Armageddon
Which was cool with Israel up to step 2, but we just passed that a few weeks ago…
Israel probably has hella kompromat on Trump. Epstein was a Mossad asset after all.
This is really stupid, just from a strategic point of view, let alone from a moral or political perspective. Sending ships into the Strait just puts those ships in the line of fire…so, why would anyone actually agree to send ships there?
Iran has the “high ground” here. There is no way for ships to take back control of the Strait this way. All the US is doing, is asking allies to take losses for no reason.
Or… he’s asking them to take losses because he doesn’t consider them allies. World conquest would be easier with the Chinese and UK navies out of the way.
He really thinks the Chinese navy is going to help?
He loses nothing by asking….
He’s lost any shred of credibility he might have had.
Yes. Nothing.
I lose nothing by asking out Angelina Jolie but she’s going to say no and I’m going to look like a twit.
The fact he included China is the funniest part. Chinese ships are already passing through the strait with Iran’s blessing, why the fuck would they ever help lmfao
Not sending ships is harming the economy and preventing gas and energy going where it is needed. Also forcing it to be flared of potentially.
There are obvious reasons one might want to put assets at risk to prevent that. And benefit from shipments.
The billions we would lose if one of our aircraft carriers were to be sunk is not a price worth paying for slightly cheaper fuel.
Besides, a few days ago Don said he didn’t need us.
It’s not slightly cheaper fuel and a hull loss of a carrier seems unlikely unless being truly daft.
It’s less about fuel being expensive and more about it being available. Otherwise some will go without and the poor tend to suffer the most in affordability crises.
Also I didn’t say you should. Just that it ain’t cut and dry.
Any naval ship in the strait is a sitting duck to AS missiles and drones. Sending British military personnel to risk death defending Trump’s distraction from the epstein files is unacceptable.
I feel like you are not listening to my point and instead panicking headlessly.
I am listening to your point.
I’m disagreeing with it. The USA started this pointless war for vanity reasons. I don’t want to see British troops put in unnecessary danger.
The only way to stop the attacks would be for America and Israel to occupy the coastal areas and mountains of Iran. Or to surrender.
A naval ship sailing near an oil tanker isn’t going to accomplish anything.
I didn’t even say Britain should deploy. Or do so ineffectually.
Yes but the whole topic is about deployment of other forces, including UK ones.
Yes. And I said it’s not trivial whether or not to deploy as there are in fact valid arguments for both. It is not as easy as conflict bad = no deployment, cause people might die.
I hear you.
And this is where we disagree. For us (the UK) it really should be that simple.
This is an illegal war started for spurious reasons that keep changing.
Sending British military personnel to participate in anything other than defensive operations of British assets and interests in the region (such as Cyprus) should be the absolute limit of our involvement.
Sending British ships into a 21 mile wide channel where they’re at the mercy of ASM and drones from Iran, for me its an absolute no brainer. Trump only wants us involved to try and share the blame for when it goes wrong. And I woildnt be surprised if he wants us as cannon fodder
Maybe a certain subset of the US population with have incentive to not act like ignorant fucking clowns when voting the next time if gas gets expensive.
Fuel prices aren’t going up at the moment because we have reserves. It’s likely that Trump will give up before those run out in 6 months time, so why risk the assets?
Fuel prices have gone up by about a third or more. I have no idea where you live but to me this just sounds plainly untrue, since other countries and economies are suffering. And about 20% of global production stopping is obviously a thing.
I didn’t say that it’s not having an effect, I said the effect is not as bad right now as it is for the US because the US doesn’t have access to its oil reserves well actually it does have access to its oil reserves but the administration won’t use it because there’s hardly any left but it amounts to the same thing.
3 weeks ago I could get diesel at €1.60/l.
Now it is over €2 per litre and I am in the weird situation today I cannot fill my tank from empty because the bank does not pre-authorise enough. So fuel prices have absolutely gone up, at least to consumers in rural France, which is all I personally care about.
Local diesel prices in the USA have jumped $1.50 in two weeks. So far.
Yes but the thing about countries that are not the US is they’re not affected by prices in the US. That’s why I said that we’re basing prices on the oil reserve that we have. Obviously that can’t last forever but if there is one thing Trump is famous for it’s giving up when things get marginally difficult.
The mental cage you have, is that the war needs to continue.
My opinion is he knows ships will be sunk so he wants it to be someone else’s ships. Let’s not forget Iran has a ton of mini submarines probably sitting quietly waiting.
Yep. The only way to actually take control of the strait is a bunch of ships and occupying/controlling all the nearby land within drone/missile/artillery range.
I thought he had already won the war? Why does he need help again? We wouldn’t be any help any way. We wouldn’t be anywhere near the front lines according to him.
What front lines? Maybe for celebratory hamburgers, since the war is already won?
Hum… A month ago UK was preparing for a war against the US with the rest of NATO.
And China?! Really?!
Japan barely has a navy, I’m not sure South Korea even has ships on theirs.
??? In case you weren’t aware, we’re an island nation. How do you think we protect our shores?
You are still dancing around the concept of an aircraft carrier. Last time I looked, having a military navy was still illegal for you.
So, yeah, you protect your shores with a coastal navy. Like every other country.
By military navy, do you mean like landing forces? I fail to see the distinction here. I’m sure these ships are seaworthy enough for open seas, past the coastal region.
en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_active_Japan_Maritime_…
With planes from land bases. Aircraft carriers are everything now. The rest of the navy exists to protect them.
He’s spent the last year alienating all of the United States’ allies and in some cases, directly threatening their sovereignty. So of course nobody wants to get involved in his mess.
Yeah, lol. I wonder if Denmark/Greenland is one of the countries he’s demanding help from.
Trump’s attitude towards the entire world has been nothing but arrogant disrespect. He deserves the same in return.
yeah no fucking shit lol. why would anyone comply? it’s only a matter of time before some iranians 9/11 us and our allies are not itching to prevent something we 100% started at their expense.
if there is a 9/11 style attack, I would bet good money that it would be a false flag from the US. they have many many many instances of false flag attacks in the past.
it wouldn’t surprise me at all.
Apparently it’s illegal for US ships to escort foreign vessels. Seems hard to believe but if it is the case then Trump is really begging.
And now the Trump regime suddenly cares what is and isn’t legal!?!?
No
Can’t ships change flag while at sea? That one taking stuff from south America to Russia carrying who knows what did a few months ago. So all the ship would be to do is declare itself American while it goes through the strait, the revert back to its original flag after.
US can also lease a ship already on the wrong side of SoH, to make it fully American.
Would be par for the course for Americans if it was illegal for their ships to help foreigners
I mean, the US escorted ships there during the Iran/Iraq war in the 1980s…
Is that more illegal than bombing fishing boats? At any rate, just make the totally certain to be successful escort mission use US oil tankers and ships, because the US has so many ships to spare, and the mission is being done because they’ve totally won the war and no one can touch greatest military ever.
Damn, wasn’t it like 5 days ago he said he didn’t need the Royal Navy?
Yes but reality and Trump have never been comfortable bedfellows. He claimed that Iran’s entire naval fleet had been completely wiped out and it turns out it was just one ship they sunk. And now the world’s most powerful military are apparently unable to secure a patch of water about 20 miles across.
There’s a very simple solution to it. The US fucks off. They’ve made things a lot worse for themselves and everyone else as it is, so pull out now and we’ll all try figure out how to clean this mess up over the next year or two.
He should bring this up in donalds peace board.
Never has it been more obvious how important it is to get fossil fuels out and invest in solar, wind and nuclear power.
I hope everyone else leaves the U.S. and every petro state with their garbage oil and go their own way by investing in green energy, E.V.s and mass transit.
Yes, please describe plastics, pharmaceuticals, fertilizers, air travel, sea transport with solar panels.
The “garbage oil” is what allows 8 billion people to exist. It’s what gave you everything that surrounds you.
Makes it even more important that we should stop burning that stuff and using it for more useful things
I understand, but you need to understand that the type of civilization that will result from that will be drastically different than the party humanity had during the cheap energy stage. You think housing and food are expensive now? Ho boy!
Also, your kids won’t be electrical engineers, but farriers and carpenters.
But his great great grand-children will be able to grow crops and feed themselves. Your geat great grand-children will be Mad-Maxing it across a desert for clean drinking water. Either way, everything is about to change.
Yes, what’s going to change is that sustainable energy is what powered humanity all the way up to roughly the 19th century.
There’s no going around that.
If you take out of the equation all the oil burned in engines, Hormuz becomes less relevant. And there are already electric buses, tractors, trucks and soon cargo ships.
This is false. It is a cheaper energy future with more resilience and less reason for war (profiteering for stategic scarcity). Hydrogen-solar economy is cheaper than adding new fossil fuels, and so transitioning away the most economic path, before worrying about the expense of reversing climate damage. That incumbent energy loses in transition as demand fades for their climate terrorism should not be part of equation.
We can synthesize fuels and plastics. There have been days in Germany where the price of electricity was negative because renewables were producing so much.
We could do it, if we wanted to.
Fossil fuels are mainly used here as a carbon source. Plants contain carbon captured from atmospheric CO₂.
Convert biomass into platform chemicals
Bio-polyethylene
PLA plastics
Create synthetic hydrocarbons Using hydrogen + captured CO₂:
produce methanol
convert to olefins
Most pharmaceuticals rely on organic chemistry
The key fertilizer is ammonia so use green hydrogen produced by electrolysis.
Synthetic jet fuel (Power-to-Liquid) or Biofuels (SAF)
Ammonia fuel
Methanol fuel
Hydrogen fuel cells
Wind-assisted propulsion
Use hydrogen reduction of iron ore:
electric kilns
hydrogen heat
carbon capture
None of these technologies violate physics or chemistry. The challenge is cost, scale, and infrastructure, not feasibility.
If oil is at $200/barrel then these alternatives become much more attractive
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As it should. NATO is a defense alliance, not a pedoking/kingbibi distraction gone bad. I hope the EU can keep holding on, because the influx into far right parties and EU election tampering has become noticeable enough to possibly change this in the future.
NATO only does humanitarian bombing.
haha
Don’t you laugh, damn you.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia
“NATO framed its bombing as a humanitarian intervention”
A purely defensive humanitarian bombing, mind you, according to astute international affairs observer TheObviousSolution.
Now, let me tell you about a country called Russia. They don’t do humanitarian bombings. That’s quite silly of them since all they needed to do is “frame” it as such.
But what can you expect from a country that can apparently invade all of Europe with a single washing machine CPU.
Let’s ask one related question so everyone can decide whether any argument here will be handled in good faith or not.
Do you believe Bosnian Serbs were commiting genocide?
WHAT!! It was “ethnic cleansing”. And what does NATO have to do with this? They have these humanity-loving impulses only in certain cases, it seems.
Original conflict was about Kosovo. 1000 years of progroms by both Ottomans and Serbia to the region. Serbian claims of Albanian gangs doing mean stuff certainly had a basis. Serbian army intervening is like Russia defending Donbas, or like NATO intervention for Kosovo/Albania (both picking a side), and more legitimate than US recent bombing of Carribean fishing boats.
Fighting in Bosnia, even if groups had arms supply support from different sides is much harder to make the usual political BS warcrime accusations that comes from home grown political narratives, and political BS against specifically Bosnian Serbs is an extreme stretch that has never stopped US+Colonial empire scum before.
The Yugoslav Army only does humanitarian ethnic cleansing.
Sorry to offend your favorite country’s pedoking ally that you had to go several decades into the past. Funny though, the love relationship between Trump and Putin, and how offended people like you seem to get when either are criticized.
NATO is a defense alliance. That it has or hasn’t lived up to the designation isn’t a good segue into your propaganda spins and attempts at talking bullshit about other users, it can be criticized when it hasn’t just as it is being criticized now.
NATO was formed by america to control Europe as pawn against soviet union, it has nothing to do with defense.
NATO had many nazis as generals initially, had it been defence alliance they wouldve accepted soviet union in NATO just after WW2 when soviet union asked so, but no their whole intention was to make an enemy and fund lockheed martin
Death to NATO
Go enshittify piefed, some of their promoters seem to want you there.
I dislike increasingly elaborate insult names, absolutely no one who cares about it really needs convincing, they just make it unnecessarily long and random nonsensical jibberish. And I like mangos.
But what if they’re hilarious, like Drumpf
/s
It’s ok to call the namecaller-in-chief names.
If they don’t make any sense to you, you might be clueless. Two words, too “increasingly elaborate” for you, and one of them is literally used by the supporter’s of whom I was referring to.
Why isn’t the Orange ShitGoblin using the ‘Board of Peace’ to sort this trifling issue out?
Typo, it was supposed to be ‘Bored of Peace’ ^/s^
The next world war is gonna be governments vs people. World civil war
Isn’t that what MAGA claims Jan. 6th was about? People are getting increasingly put into bubbles to work against their own countries by networks bought up by billionaires exactly for that purpose, and they are spinning it just as you have.
That’s really what they all are.
The scary far right parties tend to be against NATO. CDU implemented all of the hateful anti-immigrant legislation the AfD wanted. Its those “pure liberal hearts” that want war on Russia, and digital ID surveillance.
Sorry bud, Russia launched the “three day” invasion of Ukraine, not the other way around. Digital ID surveillance, that’s not party dependent, how blind do you have to be to not see Palantir over in the US. From the power hungry to the people seeing fake Internet theory work out in social networks, they all want “digital ID surveillance”.
The United States needs a regime change
And a system change to boot. This is a symptom.
Personally I think this is a Yugoslavia type situation. Better to just dissolve it all and contain all the stupid shit to one country, who’s the Serbia in this situation though since all the old regions of the US outside of the Carolinas are ambivalent at best towards this shit.
Why should any sane country even respond? This is an American-Israeli undertaking. They started it out of folly, they deal with it.
Maybe he should ask his “Board of Peace” for support. There are more than enough bootlickers.
Or the ships should simply follow the law of the seas: the country responsible for the ships’ security in such cases is the one they are sailing under. Let’s see how Panama, Nigeria, Philippines (or whatever is the cheapest flag of fancy at the moment) run to help.
Maybe some FIFA warships will do the trick 🤡🤡🤡👌🏻👌🏻😂😂 Sorry i can’t… its the only way for me to digest this timeline xddd
If someone should protect the strait, its UAE, Saudi-Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, Kuwait and everyone who’s exports are dependent of it.
According to Iran, some of the strikes on those territories are black flag ops by Mossad/Israel. Israel would do this to keep GCC allied with “US mission”. GCC is faced with choice of attacks by Iran or by axis of demonism. All of the countries you listed, KSA excepted, have outsourced their military to the US.
All of the countries you listed are opposed to the war, and would be thrilled with full cease fire, and Iran giving everyone permission to transit Gulf, and trade.
When will they ever learn that the only winners from war are the ones who make peace.
Starting a war is easy. Ending a war is difficult. Winning a war is impossible.
The only winners from war are the military industrial complex and the very rich.
I thought he didn’t need any help with the war he had already won?
Mission accomplished! We won the war!…Now everyone help me out with this war! 🫲🍊🫱
He could ask Spain.
Spain says he should send your children to the battlefield.
Once again, the USA being the only NATO member to ask ‘allies’ for help, only to later call all of them freeloaders.
Moron calls for aid. Crickets
Right now North Korea looks like more respected and competent country than USA. I’d even say any country
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After mistreating all of his allies, after humiliating Ukrainians in the Oval Office, and after saying he already won this thing multiple times, he keeps requesting others to take risks for him.
Other countries should wait for his navy to get there first before risking their ships and people.
Please stop sane-washing calling any of the military or government “his”. It’s supposed to be our government and our military. Don’t let him normalize that it belongs to him.
until Congress authorizes a war with Iran (and they explicitly refused to restrict the 30 day do whatever you want authorization wrt Iran) it most definitely is “his”. the Statesian people’s representatives ceded their rights and responsibilities over the military to the despot.
Remember the Greenland thing?
Europe remembers!
I thought it was “already won” and he didn’t need anybody else’s help?
Wtf would China, of all countries, join us? That’s just fucking stupid.
The #1 solar country with one of the highest totals of electric cars gives a shit about oil, why? Also they don’t really have the capacity to project power. So they’re like wtf, why are you looking at us?
Plus Iran is letting the tankers heading from them to China through. It’s Taiwan and South Korea who are in trouble
Oil is the raw material for plastics and China is the place where they make everything?
It’s the usual tactic employed by this admin. Flood the zone and see what sticks.
Goldman Sachs says Iran war is just distraction from private markets archive.ph/fz9AZ
The world should say “Drop the tariffs and we will talk”
Then say “No”.
I’m not sure the American people have learned their lesson yet. I say let the Tariffs continue until they realize they should never elect another Republican again. I say that as an American paying for the tariffs. The answer should just be “No.”
The average American reads and comprehends at a sixth grade level. Learning is not the America strong suit here.
Wrong, that’s way too high of a grade level.
Then why would other countries send ships to help in a war that the United States of Israel started without consulting them??? Trump, again, shitting himself and expecting others to clean him.
This looks like a job for the Board of Peace!
In Plane interview last night, Trump threatened NATO members to join the war. “We will remember their inaction/US has a long memory” after a year of threats and extortion against all allies. There is no known offer to allies to “be paid” to help. Meanwhile, Israel has authorized, for first time in history, to pay for its own weapons. Trump’s threats come with declaring it a victory if oil prices increase for allies, because US oil companies getting richer is “good for America”.
Despite “ahead of schedule on plan” claims, this is all obvious defeat. Every other country in the world is much better off getting Iran’s permission to cross without military escorts. They need to extort and threaten the US to get them to declare victory and lift sanctions on Iran. Just buy Iran’s uranium, and STFU. US would need to pay more to allies for their help than they’d pay Iran to save face.
The US has a demonstrated very SHORT memory. Who came through for them after 9/11 by landing US bound flights, then fed and sheltered those stranded folks and finally sent their troops to die in Afghanistan?
Only to be ridiculed, tariffed and threatened now.
oooh, i know this one… Canada.
The strategy has been to turn allies against us in every way possible. Gee I wonder why they’re not clamoring to risk life and limb for trump now. And lol, his first instinct is to threaten them to get their help.
He simply cannot fathom how to handle a situation where he doesn’t hold all the cards. He was born rich and through his entire life he’s only had any success because of combining that unearned wealth with psychopathy. He holds no cards right now.
Iran has already offered all countries the out of kicking out the US and Israel embassadors so that their ships are allowed to pass the Straight.
Further, my impression is that at least in Europe and especially after the Greenland affair, most of the public opinion thinks Trump is an untrustworthy liar AND because they attacked Iran unprovoked, America and Israel are the ones to blame for the increase in fuel and gas prices they’re already feeling.
(There’s enough independent press in most of Europe that the “blame Iran” messaging is far from dominant)
The idea of sending European ships into Trump’s war is incredibly unpopular and whilst I don’t think we’re quite yet at the stage were kicking out the American embassador would be popular, the more fuel and gas prices go up the more acceptable it looks.
Then the whole Epstein files thing throws suspicion in people’s minds on any European politician that’s a little too eager to do what America or Israel wants.
At the very least the offer from Iran introduces doubt and confusion making it far harder for blackmailed European politicians to find a way to justify the incredibly unpopular idea of putting European ships and military at risk because of a war of pure aggression started by America and Israel.
I don’t know about you but my youtube feed is now filled with NATO propaganda…
Consume American media and media hosted by American companies, get fed pure propaganda.
The old Soviet joke of “There is no pravda (truth) in Pravda, there’s no isvestia (news) in the Isvestia” also applies to the American (and British, Australian and possibly Canadian) Press and other modern means of “opinion forming”.
Most countries in Europe aren’t quite as bad, but even here at least some of the Press is very biased and even Propagandistic (Germany what from what I’ve heard is especially bad, Britain I know from personal experience is horrible in that sense, possibly worse than the US)
Thankfully we still have the CBC. Privately owned news here is all dog whistling and hand wringing now.
Is that offer still open to friendly nations? As I understand it, they have been mining the strait, and things just seem a bit chaotic to mine it in a way that leaves a safe and known path, plus how to communicate that path to those they want to let through while denying those they don’t. Unless the minea are remote instead of proximity, but I think part of the point was to make the embargo passive so that carpet bombing the area wouldn’t be an effective counter.
I’m a tyrant, why won’t anyone play with me.
He’d get more help if he resigned.
Were we not in a trade war with everyone all year? Why would they help us? Should have got the details worked out before starting shit if you were going to need help you stupid orange fuck.
Technically the straight is vital for all countries. So Trump went and fucked the world with his war mongering. And countries may be wishing to workout a deal that if they help him, they get something if he is successful, but imo, that would be a mistake, since his agreements aren’t worth shit.
So, to me, the only solution is to wait and see and leave trump on his own.
He will definitely use that later on and accuse of not helping etc… but thats fine. If countries do help, it wont score them with brownie points, because trump always wants more, so if he can back out of a deal, and you dont have much leverage to force him not to, he will just TACO right out of it.
I’d sooner help Iran secure the straight, and china, and bring the entire american economy to its knees, before I helped it win its war.
And if I ever DID consider sending ships, I’d ask for 20 billion$ up front, and once the check clears, i will send my ships.
Yeah, agreed, this sucks for everyone but if they help it will only enable him further and he’ll have forgotten about it when he starts up on whatever the next distraction is. They’d be better off making a deal with Iran.
Ya, unfortunately Iran, Russia, China, these countries all suck as well. But Israel/US are a much more immediate threat. Unless you’re Ukraine, as russia is obviously the more immediate threat, and you dont want to help Iran for that reason, since they are team russia, but I agree Trump should not be enabled. Let him waste his resources and Iran’s and russia in a fight together, and we will pay the cost of inflation for it. It’s not a bad deal.
Maybe FIFA can step in with the ‘straight out of Hormuz’ award. Also does anyone seriously think that China will assist the US after the way they have been and still are being treated?
The US has the largest military navy in the world, by far. They can very well choose to “escort ships” on their own, if they’re ready to accept the risks that comes with it.
The US is essentially looking for a sucker to stick his neck out for them. The British would be smart to keep out of this one, but again, they’re British.
American here.
Our asshole government started this fucking war and is fully responsible for the consequences. Other countries should embargo us until we agree to pay reparations to cover the economic damage caused by the war. Or better yet - seize any assets of American oligarchs to cover damages.
It sounds like I’m ignoring the human cost of the war, and that’s because the human cost isn’t a concern for those behind Trump. The billionaire class running this country doesn’t care about how many innocent people suffer, so they need to be attacked economically.
I like the idea of them seizing the assets of the oligarchs, but I’m sure they’d come up with a way to make the 99% pay for it like they did after 08 and like they already are with the private credit collapse.
Oh wait until Trump is out of office, there will be an aftermatch.
Calling us is lovely, but what exactly would you like us to do?
We warned you that they would close the strait and that the world would be powerless. Now you went and did it anyway.
So… Exactly WHAT would you like us to do?
There are mines in that narrow gap now. We need to clear them while Iran is taking potshots at us. Clearing mines takes weeks. Even when NOT being shot at.
No Trump. You break it, you own it.
Why on earth would anyone be willing to [insert] themselves into this conflict that wasn’t even necessary…
I’m pretty sure Trump and Netanyahu expects to have regime change in Iran just like that and now they are wondering why it wasn’t going well. It seems like Iran’s strong resistance came to the surprise to them. This is totally the most stupid of all wars, not a single plan what to do or how to do it.
They might have thought they could hold the world economy hostage to force other counties to act. Or the whole wanting things to get better is an act and the economic disruption is the whole point.
Not completely muted. Spain and italy made it very clear how they felt.
So we’re out of nato but we expect nato to help? Eat a brick trump
Nato AND China
And you already won the war.
“CLEAN my MESS! CLEAN my MESS!”
Made from real gorilla chest!
And this sweater, it’s no better, made from real Irish Setter!
Lol what a child