Trump may be unable to end the war he started with Iran, even if he wanted to (www.cnn.com)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 01:38
https://lemmy.world/post/44186644

Trump is now caught in the oldest trap of modern warfare – believing a swift, surgical military operation will yield quick, enduring political results. The Soviets did it in Afghanistan; the US in Iraq in 2003; Putin did it in Ukraine, and is still fighting. Whatever force a military fails or succeeds in applying at the start, the people it is attacking have greater commitment to defending their lands and homes.

The White House may have rushed into this, seizing the opportunity for a decapitation strike, provided by Israeli intelligence. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has very different objectives regionally, and a long US involvement against Tehran suits his desire for an Iran in rolling collapse that is no longer a threat. But the death of Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei on February 28 has caused as many problems as it has solved.

#world

threaded - newest

Kolanaki@pawb.social on 13 Mar 01:39 next collapse

You opened this can of worms, now lie in it.

HowRu68@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 02:17 next collapse

You opened this can of worms, now lie in it.

He’s already choking in them too.

And imo, ofcourse he can end this whenever he wants to. Strategically and morally this operation makes zero sense. Not that anything he’s said or un-said, or started and or ( never) ended ever did. And no, I don’t think Iranians will come better out of this. It’s another humanitarian disaster in the making. He’s a destructive asshole. # edit Iran not Iraq ofc.

daychilde@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 03:47 collapse

And no, I don’t think Iraqis will come better out of this.

And probably Iranians won’t, either. ;-)

HowRu68@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 04:10 collapse

Oeps… will correct. Might have something to with my déjà vu. smh

daychilde@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 05:01 collapse

The intent was clear, I just like poking fun at typos. <3

arrow74@lemmy.zip on 13 Mar 12:57 collapse

He won’t, he’ll be long dead and we all have to live with the consequences

Gullible@sh.itjust.works on 13 Mar 02:39 next collapse

I don’t see why he’d want it to stop. He’s been actively destroying the US for the overwhelming majority of his presidency. If he benefits the US at large, it’s major news to me. A stone rolling downhill shouldn’t be news.

n4ch1sm0@piefed.social on 13 Mar 02:44 next collapse

Generally what happens when you start a forever war.

It’s the only thing Republicans do other than taxcuts for the rich and fucking up the economy.

DivineDev@piefed.social on 13 Mar 02:48 collapse

No no, they also fuck something else!

n7gifmdn@lemmy.ca on 13 Mar 04:38 collapse

Won’t somebody think of the children

ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one on 13 Mar 04:55 collapse

Oh, we’re thinking of the children 😉 - Republicans

diabetic_porcupine@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 18:42 collapse

Fuck them kids!

ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one on 13 Mar 19:30 collapse

Oh buddy, you have no idea how much those kids are getting fucked. - Republicans

someguy3@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 02:45 next collapse

He’s going to bomb until he’s bored and then stop. That’s why it’s going to be air only (maybe ground special ops), air only is easy to stop. Well the US part is easy to stop, then it’s when does Iran stop.

protist@retrofed.com on 13 Mar 03:47 next collapse

Iran seems to making it clear they will not be stopping soon, regardless of what Trump does. Trump has been trying to send Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner back in for “negotiations” (they were in the middle of “negotiations” when Trump attacked), but the Iranians have said “fuck no, it’s too late.”

FaceDeer@fedia.io on 13 Mar 04:23 collapse

It'd be funny if Iran invited Kushner for negotiations and then killed him.

Well, "funny" for certain particularly dark styles of humour, I suppose. And probably not very productive. But turnabout is fair play, eh?

untorquer@quokk.au on 13 Mar 05:27 collapse

Idk, seems like a win-win

FaceDeer@fedia.io on 13 Mar 05:31 collapse

I suspect all it would really accomplish would be to get Trump to double down even harder, possibly pulling the trigger on even more extreme and wantonly destructive attacks. And I have absolutely no expectation that there are checks and balances that would stop them.

So not worth it simply for the sake of doing the funniest thing.

untorquer@quokk.au on 13 Mar 06:39 next collapse

It’s clear the trump admin doesn’t care for anything other than political/popular “wins"(and hurting people/making money), especially after failing to meet their objectives. I’m sure he would talk it up but it would only justify the actions they will take anyways.

0x0@lemmy.zip on 13 Mar 19:06 collapse

there are checks and balances that would stop them.

“His own morals”.

FaceDeer@fedia.io on 13 Mar 19:12 collapse

You chopped my sentence in half when quoting it and reversed its meaning 180 degrees in the process.

WanderingThoughts@europe.pub on 13 Mar 05:09 collapse

Trump can leave, but then everybody knows for sure the USA and Trump despite all the military hardware and billions are weak and can’t force anybody, can’t keep trade going and doesn’t have any allies left to help out. You just need some backbone and cheap drones.

yakko@feddit.uk on 13 Mar 07:14 collapse

It turns out parasitic war profiteers like the military industrial complex don’t actually make you strong, they just make you violent and take all your money.

halcyoncmdr@piefed.social on 13 Mar 02:49 next collapse

They can have him, and his entire cabinet and advisors.

I’d even consider all of Congress and the Supreme Court for dessert. Then we can just start over.

Sunflier@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 12:40 collapse

I dunno about all of Congress. Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar, Corey Bush, and Rashida Talib have stood against the regime since day 1. They shouldn’t have to be handed over.

Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 03:04 next collapse

It’s almost like there was some sort of reason why no one else was stupid enough to do this.

Bustedknuckles@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 03:05 next collapse

I hope it hangs around the neck of every feckless congressperson that votes not to keep their constitutional powers

cenariodantesco@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 03:25 next collapse

i am no expert on the subject, but it seems that this time Americans citizens will experience war beyond the occasional terrorist attack in their soil

protist@retrofed.com on 13 Mar 03:47 next collapse

Not sure what you mean

[deleted] on 13 Mar 04:32 next collapse
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TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 10:53 collapse

Thanks for letting everyone know you’re bigoted, evil, and bloodthirsty

RalfWausE@feddit.org on 13 Mar 12:04 collapse

Bigoted agaist americans? Yeah, guilty. Bloodthirsty? Only in the way the i appreciate that the biggest threat to the world gets a little bit of their own medicine.

TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 14:20 collapse

Ah yes all the “bad” bigots are only bad because they don’t have an excuse to be bigots.

RalfWausE@feddit.org on 13 Mar 16:42 collapse

I don’t need an excuse, I simply want to see the US gone or at least in flames - and I am honest and open about it.

TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 16:50 collapse

But you have an excuse. See it’s okay for you to wish death on innocent people because of where they were born. You’re good dude. Everyone understands.

RalfWausE@feddit.org on 13 Mar 18:45 collapse

Its the same excuse (if it is one) your people (I guess?) used to bomb my grandparents in the Ruhr Valley and the parents of my wife in Hanoi.

TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 20:19 collapse

Yes, TrickDacy is famously in the family of every warmongering US president.

“I’m not a hypocrite because I can pretend you are!”

Yeah, I’m not hoping for innocent strangers to be murdered. I’d have to be a lot more fucked up in the head than I am to hope for that.

Rothe@piefed.social on 13 Mar 07:35 next collapse

In what way? They will experience it in the form of rising fuel prices, sure.

cenariodantesco@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 15:25 collapse

yes, and will trickle down to price increase in other things exponentially

TrickDacy@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 10:55 collapse

No, that’s not clear at all. Unless you want to promote this from creepy conjecture to pointing out anything of substance…

frongt@lemmy.zip on 13 Mar 03:40 next collapse

Also the heritage foundation, and people like Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon.

MrSulu@lemmy.ml on 13 Mar 04:51 next collapse

Israel said that it worked for them, and all they want is sufficient disruption to continue their own invasions. Trump is the fool for so so many reasons.

tomiant@piefed.social on 13 Mar 17:51 collapse

Israel needs lebensraum.

dumbass@piefed.social on 13 Mar 05:02 next collapse

Remember the last world leader who said it’ll be over in a few days…..

Bullerfar@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 05:20 next collapse

This is a great point. It’s like the super powers of the worlds leaders, just thinks its a 1+1 = 2 scenario with war. Because they are so far up their own arses, they can’t see any further than their own stool…

aramis87@fedia.io on 13 Mar 04:40 next collapse

Trump may be unable to end the war he started with Iran, even if he wanted to

Yeah, we know. It's one of the (many) reasons we didn't want this.

Bazell@lemmy.zip on 13 Mar 05:48 next collapse

I love how now the Israel is blamed for the US failures.

yakko@feddit.uk on 13 Mar 07:07 next collapse

Given how rarely any corpo media holds their feet to the fire, that’s almost more interesting than whether it’s true.

Greddan@feddit.org on 13 Mar 10:32 next collapse

Israel is the result of failure from both the US and the UK. Pretty much the same as the Taliban in Afghanistan.

GameOverFlow@lemmy.zip on 13 Mar 10:37 next collapse

Both are at fault.

Yliaster@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 14:16 collapse

It’s a joint failure. Israel is also to blame, as is often the case with US interventionism.

FuglyDuck@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 07:10 next collapse

Trump, as an individual may not have a way out. Remember, Epstein was Mossad-trained and probably shared a lot of useful dirt with Israel.

But there is always a path to peace; and in this case it starts with the US backing off. Iran doesn’t have much capacity for war beyond protecting itself.

Exactly the same as how there’s a way for Russia to have peace in Ukraine.

Azzu@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 13 Mar 10:21 collapse

The implication I haven’t seen explicitly mentioned in the article (which it should be! Bad article) is “there is no way for Trump to stop the war without losing face and thus his power”.

The reason they keep going is because otherwise they have to admit they were wrong. And probably not only wrong, but knowingly wrong, which equals malicious. And admitting that you’re malicious is bad, even with your most loyal supporters. The only way to not have that happen is to just keep going and act as if everything is fine, which is what’s happening.

The actual “path to peace” is very very simple, you just have to retreat your troops. It’s supremely unlikely Iran will attack halfway around the globe with their infrastructure.

tias@discuss.tchncs.de on 13 Mar 10:31 next collapse

They’ve backed on tons of things before without admitting any wrongdoing, I don’t see how this is different

FuglyDuck@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 10:53 collapse

The implication I haven’t seen explicitly mentioned in the article (which it should be! Bad article) is “there is no way for Trump to stop the war without losing face and thus his power

basically what I was trying to get at. But I’m not sure that it’s a matter of losing face, and rather that Netanyahu is holding some damning evidence (of the epstein files variety) over him.

as mentioned on other posts, the easiest way to deal with blackmail material is to just release it all.

HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club on 13 Mar 12:24 collapse

I don’t know if just stopping the attack is going to work this time. Iran was significantly attacked and will want some form of retribution in order to remind the USA to never do this again.

The USA and Israel will need to pay costs for peace.

explodicle@sh.itjust.works on 13 Mar 15:10 collapse

The last time someone succeeded at that, it made the USA even worse.

Event_Horizon@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 07:17 next collapse

I’m willing to bet this is Trumps and by extension America’s 3 day special operation. And I mean that down to the expectation this would all be over in 3-4 days after the extensive bombing and killing of the upper leadership in the first day.

Instead Iran was all “nah we’re good, we’ve been preparing for this day for 15-20 years”. And started fucking up the whole region.

GameOverFlow@lemmy.zip on 13 Mar 10:36 collapse

This war can go on for years… so you are possible right. 

truthfultemporarily@feddit.org on 13 Mar 08:33 next collapse

This dude started presidency with zero major crises, and has created at least three.

GreenKnight23@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 08:48 next collapse

that’s like guessing how many jelly beans are in a jar.

there’s at least three!

MrsVeggies@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 13 Mar 14:32 collapse

Idk what you’re talking g about, he started with multiple crises and has only made them worse: climate change, health insurance, student loans, genocide in Gaza, etc.

Biden was nearly as incompetent and evil as Trump, he just hid it better and occasionally threw us a bone.

explodicle@sh.itjust.works on 13 Mar 15:07 next collapse

The person people who down voted you went out to brunch the whole Biden administration.

“We’ll push him left after the election!”

balsoft@lemmy.ml on 13 Mar 16:21 collapse

Don’t forget the Ukraine war and the ongoing social, health and economic consequences of the pandemic.

Trump is a dumb, racist, idiotic pile of pedophile shit, but US wasn’t doing great before him either.

smeenz@lemmy.nz on 13 Mar 08:51 next collapse

I mean, he could stop the war tomorrow by handing himself over to the Iranian authorities.

D_C@sh.itjust.works on 13 Mar 09:58 next collapse

That fat cunt is unable to keep it’s trousers clean from it’s own shit.

So how the fuck anyone thinks that that waffling pile of dementia riddled syphilis can unfuck the murdering of schoolgirls in this Epstein war is laughable at best.

WanderWisley@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 11:09 next collapse

The plan was to distract from the Epstein files at any means necessary.

BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today on 13 Mar 11:19 next collapse

EVERY war ever fought was going to be over in a month with an overwhelming victory, and yet, it NEVER happens.

DomeGuy@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 12:16 collapse

Except in the first US gulf war, back in the early 90s. (Kuwait was attacked by Iraq. The USA spent months preparing and then three days attacking. Then stopped when Iraq surrendered.)

Or the fall of the USSR. (Happened in about a month, no major fighting.)

Or the Russian annexation of Crimea.

It isn’t that short military exercises never yield results. It’s that wars persist until both attacker and defender believe peace is the best tactic.

The USA bombing a country for whom fighting the USA is essentially their national myth is possibly the dumbest thing that my country has ever done.

sturmblast@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 12:07 next collapse

War is a choice, he could end it right now.

MrMakabar@slrpnk.net on 13 Mar 12:20 next collapse

He can choose to no longer shoot at Iran, but he can not make Iran stop shooting at the US. It takes only one site to keep a war going.

VitoRobles@lemmy.today on 13 Mar 12:31 next collapse

The Middle East has been in constant threats and instability for the past century.

Donny boy has been living peacefully golfing and surrounded by yes men.

He’s kicked a lot of bee hives.

Miaou@jlai.lu on 13 Mar 12:44 collapse

Good thing Iran has never struck at the US then. Although “good” might not be appropriate at this point.

Catma@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 13:20 collapse

I know the first thing I would do is stop shooting at the nation that bombed and killed my family and 100+ kids because they stopped first.

We have radicalized an entire nation against the US for no reason anyone can actually explain. The only thing we taught every nation is that we can bomb you and take your leaders captive if you do not have nukes.

Jankatarch@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 15:54 collapse

Not just a nation, a whole region. We did commit genocides in Afghanistan and Iraq too.

poopkins@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 12:12 next collapse

Modern? Nobody remembers the blitzkrieg?

melsaskca@lemmy.ca on 13 Mar 12:56 next collapse

Of course he cannot stop it now. The world and it’s history is way bigger than the current blip that is trump.

FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 13:20 next collapse

Iran gets a vote.

And that’s it. This war is going to at least last through November because Iran now wants to hurt Donald politically.

Triasha@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 13:59 next collapse

Calling it now, when striking military targets fails to get surrender, we will switch to war crimes, Israel and then the US will start hitting water, food, and transportation infrastructure.

The only way to get victory from this war is genocide.

Lushed_Lungfish@lemmy.ca on 13 Mar 14:01 next collapse

Uh, y’all already all in on that.

ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works on 13 Mar 14:06 next collapse

This war?

FatVegan@leminal.space on 13 Mar 14:07 next collapse

Because bombing a school isn’t a war crime in the US. It’s just a Tuesday

Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 15:27 next collapse

It’s not a war crime is it’s the first time.

Wonder what new horrors the torment nexus can cook up.

Mrkawfee@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 15:38 next collapse

And we know the Zionists are intensely relaxed about perpetrating genocide.

samus12345@sh.itjust.works on 13 Mar 15:38 next collapse

We blew up a school. It was war crimes from the start.

davepleasebehave@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 18:08 collapse

right out of the gate!

balsoft@lemmy.ml on 13 Mar 16:19 next collapse

You’re about 2 weeks too late for that, US&Israel have committed multiple war crimes already.

sobchak@programming.dev on 13 Mar 16:32 collapse

They already have been. I know that at least one water desalination plant was hit. Civilian fuel infrastructure has been hit. The US openly stated they’re going to try to cripple their industrial capacity. Seems the US has adopted Israel’s Dahiya doctrine which targets civilian infrastructure. I think Trump said once the US is done there will be nobody left to surrender…

“At some point I don’t think there will be anybody left, maybe to say ‘we surrender.’ They’re being decimated.”

  • Donald Trump
ZephyrXero@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 16:22 next collapse

Correction: the war Netanyahu started, and Trump followed along with

Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works on 13 Mar 16:26 next collapse

The man isn’t even able to prevent himself from shitting his pants.

DisgruntledPelican@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 17:07 next collapse

The only thing « they » won is a larger distraction from the Epstein files of a pedophile president.

a9249@lemmy.ca on 13 Mar 17:57 collapse

Yeah real odd the timing of this attack is the same day they released evidence of him diddling kids…

arcine@jlai.lu on 13 Mar 17:47 next collapse

The US started this war decades ago. The “Cold War” did not end, it was merely renamed “Peace”.

Jax@sh.itjust.works on 13 Mar 18:02 next collapse

How did the Iraq war yield quick results? Wasn’t the U.S. military there for like 9 years?

einkorn@feddit.org on 13 Mar 18:11 collapse

The military collapsed in a matter of days. Yet the conflict didn’t end for years, which is the whole premise of the article and every conflict mentioned.

Jax@sh.itjust.works on 13 Mar 18:16 next collapse

Ah, so you’re talking about the benefits we reap after the dust settles following the initial military actions.

That makes more sense, admittedly I did skim.

The_Almighty_Walrus@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 18:20 collapse

This will end the same as every other middle east conflict. We destroy the government and make 12 new terrorist organizations. But they keep trying to cut the heads off a hydra.

SippyCup@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 18:58 collapse

Because the entire army went home, the US wouldn’t allow them to work in security, fired many of those that were working in security, and then did a big ole surprise Pikachu when the army just kind of became an insurgency.

TwilitSky@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 18:04 next collapse

“Wars begin when you will, but they do not end when you please” - Niccolo Machiavelli

DarkFuture@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 20:06 next collapse

Well, now we all know what happens when you make a felon rapist pedo the most influential person on the planet.

MehBlah@lemmy.world on 13 Mar 20:12 collapse

That would be funny if it were not for all the dead people he will create as a result.