Reverse brain drain: What’s drawing Chinese researchers back from the US? (www.channelnewsasia.com)
from schizoidman@lemmy.zip to world@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 02:06
https://lemmy.zip/post/50364906

Several prominent Chinese figures, including top Harvard mathematician Liu Jun, award-winning computer scientist and blockchain expert Chen Jing and rising AI star Fu Tianfan, have since left the US and returned to China to take up roles in prestigious institutions in cities like Beijing, Nanjing and Shenzhen.

#world

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[deleted] on 06 Oct 02:48 next collapse
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adespoton@lemmy.ca on 06 Oct 03:38 next collapse

Let’s see… choice is: “stay here, be the victim of overt racism and live life with the threat that at any moment masked men may swoop in and carry off you or your family, or be regaled as a hero and given a prestigious position at a university at the front edge of your field, with as much stability as you could ever want….

psx_crab@lemmy.zip on 06 Oct 03:42 next collapse

It’s funny to me that they rather risk random censorship than, idk, humiliatingly detained with a chance of dying. At least CCP is bad in a consistent way, Trump is just bad in a very random way.

bigfondue@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 03:54 next collapse

Also, China acknowledges things like climate change, while now any mention of climate change will get your funding cut in the US.

psx_crab@lemmy.zip on 06 Oct 04:40 collapse

Not only acknowledges, but actively trying to cut down emissions. They’re a growing country(that is still growing because china is crazy huge) and factory of the world, per capita of emission is significantly lower than US. American should be ashamed for letting this happen despite being a developed country, and now its actively screwing over the humanity’s future.

Dragomus@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 23:51 collapse

China learned a lesson from events 10-30 years ago, toxic smog rolling into cities and all that …

It would have been good if the whole world had learned the same thing from their experience, but here we are.

WanderingThoughts@europe.pub on 06 Oct 05:52 collapse

Lawful Evil is at least predictable, contrary to Chaotic Evil.

drmoose@lemmy.world on 07 Oct 08:25 collapse

Lmao imagine thinking that China doesn’t just disappear people they don’t like. China did what ICE is trying to do 30 years ago, America is still playing catch up.

Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org on 06 Oct 03:28 next collapse

Well this is just me thinking out loud but maybe it’s the fascism

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 05:15 next collapse

You can’t even post about Winnie the Pooh in China. Just because America has gotten worse does not mean China has become good.

Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 06 Oct 05:23 collapse

True, but just because China hasn’t become good doesn’t mean that it’s not now a better place to live for someone who looks even vaguely Chinese and is thus at high risk of becoming a victim of ICE

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 05:33 collapse

Many human rights organizations have criticized China’s treatment of minority cultures and ethnicities. Uighurs being the most well known.

Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 06 Oct 05:38 next collapse

Yeah, I know. I’m DEFINITELY not saying that China’s a good place to live.

Just that it’s perhaps a less bad place to live for some people than the fascist-occupied US is.

OctopusNemeses@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 05:41 next collapse

You can’t post about JD Vance because that bloated face meme hurt his feelings. I’m sure any human rights groups worth their salt have had plenty to say about the US. They’ve been disappearing Muslims to black sites for decades. That among the litany of ways minorities are targeted. So what’s your point? That you’re so deep in American propaganda that you thought you had a point?

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 14:39 collapse

You can’t post about JD Vance because that bloated face meme hurt his feelings.

Oh you can’t? Are you afraid for your life after having posted this then? Exactly which journalist has been imprisoned for re-sharing it?

She went missing in Wuhan in May 2020. It later emerged that she had been taken by the Chinese authorities and detained in Shanghai, where she was convicted of “picking quarrels and provoking trouble” after a sham trial. Zhang Zhan was released on 13 May 2024 after completing a four-year prison sentence.

amnesty.org/…/china-journalist-zhang-zhan-sentenc…

People only see black and white. Everything is “completely free” or “it’s all just equally bad.” Sooo frustrating. You have no concept of shades of gray do you?

EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 07 Oct 11:22 collapse

hyperallergic.com/…/us-agencies-say-they-have-no-…

The public records request filed by Mikkelsen and his lawyer also alleged that Mikkelsen was detained for 18 hours, during which his repeated requests to contact the Norwegian consulate were denied in violation of diplomatic conventions. Mikkelsen also claimed he was threatened with imprisonment and fines if he did not turn over passwords to his device or sign certain documents.

Mikkelsen had planned a months-long trip to the US to visit friends and tour national parks with his mother, he told Hyperallergic in an interview after he returned to Norway in June. However, while passing through passport control at Newark, he was summoned into a room where he said ICE agents asked him if he planned to commit terrorism, belonged to any extremist groups, or was smuggling narcotics.

CBP officers then inspected Mikkelsen’s phone, according to his account of the events, where they found the viral meme of a bald JD Vance and photos of a pipe he said he made in trade school. Publicly, the DHS has stated that Mikkelsen was denied entry because he admitted to using marijuana, which he acknowledges having done twice in places where the substance is legal.

However, DHS’s public narrative does not match what Mikkelsen claims officers told him in the interrogation room, nor does it match documents from CBP reviewed by Hyperallergic.

Officers handed Mikkelsen a document known as an I-877, which is an official sworn report provided by DHS in instances where an individual is denied entry into the US. Mikkelsen’s I-877 states that he was denied entry because he appeared to be seeking illegal employment, which he denies.

Mikkelsen told Hyperallergic that during his interview, however, he remembers that he was told the JD Vance meme was “illegal” and “dangerous.”

Mikkelsen requested a copy of his I-877 in his FOIA request, which the agency claimed it had no record of.

“I’m disappointed in CBP and ICE for not being able to give me the documents that I have a copy of,” Mikkelsen told Hyperallergic. “If anything, it just looks like they are trying to hide something.”

Buffalox@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 09:02 next collapse

Because it’s OK to ban Nazism, and punish people who spread Nazism because Nazism is against our values.
But somehow it’s not OK to ban extreme religion for the exact same reasons.

We need to get over the special pleading for religion. Religious extremism is just as harmful, probably even more than any other type of extreme ideology.
There’s a reason MAGA is called a cult, and that’s because they are in denial of reality, and blindly believe harmful dogma. Just like extreme religion.

In principle the acts of MAGA are also illegal in many ways in USA, but the law was never really upheld against them, and especially their leader. Once upon a time, treason of that kind would be illegal.
And in much the same way, religious cults value their own rules more than the rules that are decided by society.

Freedom of religion is considered a human right, but freedom FROM religion should be an at least equal right, especially for children.

Nazism had roots in extreme religion to persecute the Jews to the point of outright exterminate them, and now MAGA too has roots in extreme religion, and has many of the bad signs Nazism had in Germany.
I can understand why China doesn’t want that shit.

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 15:01 collapse

But somehow it’s not OK to ban extreme religion for the exact same reasons.

Like Israel is doing in Gaza?

Buffalox@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 17:37 collapse

Obviously not, since Israel is doing the exact same the Nazis were, which is an actual genocide.
I have not heard that China is killing off Uighur’s.

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 17:42 collapse

But Israel is fighting against an extremist and verifiably dangerous religious sect (Hamas). Surely that is righteous given your above comments?

And I’ll just leave this here. It’s well cited so follow sources if you like.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Persecution_of_Uyghurs_in_Chin…

Buffalox@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 17:55 next collapse

With regard to Israel/Palestine, both sides are infested with religious dogma, but Israel is an invader of Palestine. Israel should have no say at all on what goes on in Palestine.
You are making a slippery slope argument.

What I said was the religion shouldn’t be allowed “special” pleading. Not that they can’t have rights.

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 18:18 collapse

What I said was the religion shouldn’t be allowed “special” pleading. Not that they can’t have rights.

So perhaps I misunderstood when you said they don’t have a right to exist (e.g. can be banned)?

But somehow it’s not OK to ban extreme religion for the exact same reasons.

Buffalox@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 18:23 collapse

If a extreme religion is against what we stand for as a society, why then is it more wrong to ban a religion than to ban Nazism?
I absolutely stand by my claim that religion should not have special pleading.
Obviously Islam in Palestine is not against the values of Palestine. Palestine is not for Israel to decide over and control.
If in society it is illegal to discriminate against women, religion should not be a free card to discriminate against women.
The religion needs to change to respect humanitarian values, society should not respect religious practices that don’t.

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 18:25 collapse

If a extreme religion is against what we stand for as a society, why then is it more wrong to ban a religion than to ban Nazism?

Gotcha - free speech is at the pleasure of the state then?

Buffalox@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 18:29 collapse

Gotcha

🤣 🤣 🤣

And not even being able to answer the question. 🤣 🤣 🤣
Free speech is not absolute, and I live in probably the only country in the world that actually tried that!
Free speech ends for instance when it encourages crimes or oppress minorities, or is spreading harmful lies Religions often do all 3.

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 06 Oct 21:27 collapse

Free speech is not absolute, and I live in probably the only country in the world that actually tried that!

So it’s at the pleasure of the state then?

Buffalox@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 21:40 collapse

I already answered your question, free speech is regulated everywhere, it’s a moronic question, but I refuse to accept your rhetoric, as it has nothing to do with pleasure, that’s a loaded question.

I answered your question, but you never answered mine!
Again: If an extreme religion is against what we stand for as a society, why then is it more wrong to ban a religion than to ban Nazism?

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 07 Oct 00:48 collapse

I already answered your question, free speech is regulated everywhere, it’s a moronic question, but I refuse to accept your rhetoric, as it has nothing to do with pleasure, that’s a loaded question.

I mean - you have completely agreed with me. You just like to phrase it in a way that is more weasel-wordy.

Again: If an extreme religion is against what we stand for as a society, why then is it more wrong to ban a religion than to ban Nazism?

Let me piss you off by answering your question with yet another question - who is determining what is a “religion that is against what we stand for as a society”. And let me remind you who the current US president is.

Buffalox@lemmy.world on 07 Oct 08:16 collapse

Man how dense are you? I used USA together with Nazism as examples of how religion is harmful.
Iran is running a patriarchy, that’s their decision. But the way USA is turning is against everything USA stood for for half a century, and the decline of American values to an authoritarian regime that persecute minorities, completely against the idea of freedom that used to be important for Americans, and it is all driven by religion.

3abas@lemmy.world on 07 Oct 03:04 collapse

They are shooting toddlers in the head, you Nazi.

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 07 Oct 04:08 collapse

Fascist.

3abas@lemmy.world on 07 Oct 04:40 collapse

Yes, you are indeed.

atzanteol@sh.itjust.works on 07 Oct 04:55 collapse

“I know you are but what am I?”

🙄

[deleted] on 07 Oct 12:41 collapse
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[deleted] on 07 Oct 12:56 collapse
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Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 07:20 collapse

Going to China to avoid fascism is quite the self own, though.

AA5B@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 22:03 next collapse

But who’s the self getting owned? In this case it’s the us

  • with a mythology as the bastion of freedom, nation of immigrants, melting pot, etc leaning fascist hard enough to drive people toward a known fascist country
  • with pride in science and innovation, leaning fascist hard enough to drive away the best and the brightest, the future of our science and innovation
taygaloocat@leminal.space on 07 Oct 00:56 next collapse

China is becoming the lesser of two evils

[deleted] on 07 Oct 05:54 collapse
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notsure@fedia.io on 06 Oct 04:56 next collapse

...after reading the article, money, greed, opportunity...

Tollana1234567@lemmy.today on 06 Oct 05:07 next collapse

i wouldnt call it reverse brain drain, the problem with china is having the CCP as the govt, which they can disallow any type of research they dont like. also china has a problem innovation, instead going for reverse engineering through industrial espionage which is much easier to do then performing hypothetical research. the most useful research they done is mostly around botany/discovery, dinosaurs, because plants have a massive biodeversity in china

andallthat@lemmy.world on 06 Oct 06:57 next collapse

What is drawing top comedians to Saudi, a place where you get killed for saying or writing things the ruling family doesn’t like?

I see a trend there but I can’t quite… Wait, could it be loads of money?

whereyaaat@lemmings.world on 06 Oct 07:23 next collapse

www.channelnewsasia.com

This is propaganda.

MrMakabar@slrpnk.net on 06 Oct 07:42 collapse

From Singapore…

whereyaaat@lemmings.world on 06 Oct 07:51 collapse

So what?

MrMakabar@slrpnk.net on 06 Oct 11:46 collapse

All media is propaganda, so the question is whoes. This is from Singapore, which is very well placed to take in Chinese researches itself. So saying China is an option, is not extacly positive for them.

fodor@lemmy.zip on 06 Oct 21:48 next collapse

What the fuck is this headline. Say the cause already. Jesus Christ people, you can’t hide death camps from international audiences.

Quexotic@infosec.pub on 07 Oct 01:21 next collapse

Wow. This article…

Danquebec@sh.itjust.works on 07 Oct 11:51 next collapse

This is not reverse brain drain. This is just brain drain.

But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world on 07 Oct 12:07 collapse

Maybe the fact that the US is a fascist, racist shithole of a country that’s killing its own economy?