from 01011@monero.town to world@lemmy.world on 21 Dec 2023 09:28
https://monero.town/post/1476910
A UK citizen has been sentenced to three months in jail in Dubai after “insulting” airport staff who were slow to bring his mother a wheelchair.
The unnamed man was originally issued a Dh 10,000 (£2,150) fine, but his appeal against this failed and his punishment was extended to a jail term on 6 November.
An airport employee told the court that the man swore at her after she had explained the airport’s wheelchair policy to him, telling him that “a wheelchair would be made available before boarding the bus”.
“When I tried to explain it to him, he insulted me using very bad language. I told the traveller that using such offensive language is not allowed at Dubai airport but he responded that he didn’t care.”
The employee then called the police, and a case was filed against the man in Dubai’s Criminal Court. Following an appeal, which he lost, the fine was escalated into a jail sentence, followed by immediate deportation.
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
A UK citizen has been sentenced to three months in jail in Dubai after “insulting” airport staff who were slow to bring his mother a wheelchair.
The unnamed man was originally issued a Dh 10,000 (£2,150) fine, but his appeal against this failed and his punishment was extended to a jail term on 6 November.
The Court of Appeal heard that the man began to insult staff at Dubai International Airport after they told him that they couldn’t immediately bring his mother a wheelchair, reports the Daily Mail.
“I saw the traveller repeatedly asking an airport desk employee about the wheelchair and expected that he might have not understood her explanation,” she said, reports The National.
In October, an American student briefly faced a year in prison after being accused of assaulting staff during an altercation.
In 2017, a British tourist was also sentenced to a brief jail term after making “rude gestures” and touching a man’s hip in a bar.
The original article contains 299 words, the summary contains 161 words. Saved 46%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
play stupid games win stupid prizes.
I’m not crazy about a lot of these places but I do so hate assholes who treat the waitstaff like their own personal lot in life. Fuck this guy if these
alligatorsallegations are true 🐊Edit: every time I hear the word allegations, my mind immediately turnd to
Edit: even sadder, i first spelled it like
allegators--> what Lawyers should have been called. Allegators, like allocutorsFuck that guy, but at the same time that’s a ridiculous sentence.
Honestly, you have to be mental to go to one of these countries. I know they want to become tourist hubs, but there’s just so many reasons to avoid.
I mean… he had the option of just paying the fine and be done with it - he gambled and he lost.
Sometimes it’s almost impossible to avoid. Dubai and Doha are huge hubs for connecting flights.
(I am also not a huge fan because Dubai airport was the only time in my life where I had to wait in line to take a piss)
The fine is obscene as well.
I don’t think “gambled and lost” is a good enough excuse to imprison someone for 3 months over verbal abuse.
I don’t want to defend this asshole, but the punishment is just too much for what he did.
You’re very much talking from the perspective of somebody who was raised in a society where speaking disrespectfully to strangers is tolerated. The Emirati authorities have put in place laws that reflect their values - one of which is that people should communicate with a civil tongue. If you are unable to do so then it’s best you not go to the UAE.
I come from a society where the government doesn’t imprison people willy nilly.
And I will be avoiding the UAE like the plague, because our values about peoples freedom and rights are polar opposites.
The UAE is a humans rights shithole anyway. This is just the tip of the very shitty, bigoted, racist, hateful iceberg.
Ah, and what country may that be because it certainly isn’t the USA
In my country it’s also not allowed to insult others, but the fine is not that insanely high. I think it was about 20x or 40x too high. The person should pay it and feel bad he lost his money in this stupid way, not lose one or two entire months of pay as a fine or even be jailed over it. This can ruin someones life instead of making him a better person.
How do income levels in your country compare to Dubai?
A fine should be substantial enough that people who would otherwise behave in a despicable manner rethink their behavior. Two months wages is about right.
Wow, two months wages is totally reasonable for having a bad day, and getting mad at the people responsible all because you said a “no no”
Remind me to never visit whatever shithole you consider “good and reasonable” if that’s your take. Two months salary and months of prison time is insane no matter what country you are from.
Having a bad day does not give you the right to be abusive.
Many a domestic abuser has used the same logic to justify assaulting their spouse.
Having a bad day where staff are giving you the customer service bs they don’t even believe, because they can’t be bothered to actually help you, is absolutely understandable why someone might say a thing or two out of anger. It doesn’t justify it, but it doesn’t deserve months in jail and a huge fine.
Nowhere did I see that this person was “being abusive”. The article very much made it sound like it was a quick statement, like using foul language. And sorry but saying “I don’t give a fuck” or something similar is NOT “being abusive”.
Warning, maybe downvoting UAE apologist comments is also illegal.
This wasn’t a bad day. I have bad days all the time and I don’t yell at other people over it.
Okay, I don’t agree with what you said at all. But for argument’s sake, how do you justify that they arbitrarily can raise a fine to a substantial prison sentence? That doesn’t even make sense, not even by your logic. You just said what you think is just, two months of his wage.
So what did he do between insulting somebody and appealing in court that was so bad? Appealing in the first place?
They’re taking 2 months of wages forcibly by holding him!
Laws like the one that forbid that a homosexual couple can share kisses in public places?
Why is homosexuality the big go to when looking to attack the UAE?
There are people in the West who grew up in societies where homosexuality was illegal and where physically assaulting homosexuals was rife.
It is only relatively recently that has ceased to be the case.
Public displays of affection are not cultural norms in the GCC between men and women.
Why not? It fucking sucks and is against human rights, everywhere it happens. And it’s quite a stark contrast for the UAE to behave like this great, modern society and still have this kind of dark age laws…
And that’s a big reason for me to avoid such archaic countries in general.
Yeah how's those apostasy laws? Oh! Lookie there, it's death. Noice. But in fairness I wouldn't recommend the United States to folks based on my experience of having lived here all my life. So I think it's fair to live and let live at the end of the day.
That said, challenging a fine and that challenge resulting in an increased sentence encourages folks to accept guilt when it may not be due. I don't like it when they do it here in the US, I think it's fair to indicate that it's not liked anywhere else.
There was a time that slavery was the custom in the US.
I’m not saying people should go around insulting everyone all day, I’m saying that using “cultural norms” as defense for any sort of punishment is dumb.
Cultural norms are factors in all legal systems, to pretend otherwise is to be (in your parlance) “dumb”.
Just because it’s normal, doesn’t make it any less fucking stupid. Your argument is literally just more “it’s just the way it is”, which is again, fucking stupid. “appeal to tradition”
Again, that is what ALL legal systems do. Judeo-Christian “values” are what underpin legal systems in the Western world. The notion of “rights” and “privileges” stem from local tradition, they are not universal.
It isn’t stupid to point out the truth but your inability to use civilized language is telling - it fully explains to me why you are so offended that somebody is being held to account for using impolite language for no justifiable reason.
Your clear sense of smug superiority is also pretty telling why you feel there’s no problem here. Real “they aren’t hurting the right people” energy. And you can’t defend your argument with anything beyond “it’s the way it is”, so resort to ad hominem. Have a nice day Bruh
If your intention is to provide an explanation, that’s a good point.
If your intention is to justify that law in a broad moral context then “it’s the culture there” really isn’t a valid justification, unless the point you want to make is that the country’s culture is inconsistent with present day broad moral context, in which case it sounds about right.
Who gets to dictate present day broad moral context? Is a vote taken on such?
If a vote was taken, of all the people of the West, and all the people of whatever you define as not the west, and you asked all the free people AND slaves whether they think slavery is good, what do YOU think the results would be? There’s your Present Day Broad Moral Context. Nobody wants to be a slave. You don’t want to be a slave. Slavery is bad for humans to do to one another. This is easy.
So they overreact when their feelings get hurt there and I shouldn’t go. Got it.
It’s a face saving culture. So yeah, by our standards they will over react to embarrassment.
The only standards I’ve got.
I believe in cultural relativism, but I don’t think it’s an absolute. It only goes so far. It’s just (like) my opinion (man), but anybody who reacts that way to an insult loses much more face or respect than a person who is big enough to have a measured and reasonable response, rather than taking months of a person’s life as punishment for less than 30 seconds of speech.
Sure, and I’m sure you can just explain that to the legal system of any face saving culture you happen to find yourself in.
I believe I mentioned I wouldn’t be going to such places, but I appreciate your concern for my well-being.
They put laws in place that reflect their desire for control. Is your head so far up your own ass that you think that the people setting those laws actually follow them?
There’s separate laws for the ruling class. They don’t give a flying fuck about “values”, they just want control
As opposed to the Western world where that would never happen…
The judicial system is never used to persecute racial minorities in the West…
Why is the best defense for the actions of the UAE that “the west” has done it as well? I thought you guys wanted to be better than “the west”. If we’re such a poor example of morality, surpass us instead.
Don’t you guys have like a fuck load of slaves?
Civil tongue? Sorry what?
Yeah they really respect women and foreign workers - so much respect. Fuck the UAE and fuck anyone for thinking it’s a respectable nation.
Maybe if we locked up a few more Karen’s retail workers won’t have PTSD as much
Have you never been to a busy bar, concert, restaurant, music festival, street fair, or sporting event before? Hell I’d say I’ve waited in line at an airport almost every other time I travel. When a big flight lands, the nearest bathroom often gets slammed. I’ve experienced this across the US and Europe.
I’m shocked anyone’s made it through life without queuing for the bathroom more than once.
Honestly, nope, never, except that one time. There are usually enough urinals or if I had to wait it was a minute max.
In my case at dubai airport at that time that specific terminal only had one restroom with two urinals, and there was a double queue from the urinals to the outside of the restrom, probably about 30 people long. It did not get any shorter for the hour and a half I was there - I waited.
Ok yeah that's exceptionally bad. Surprising with how much money that country seems to like to blow on everything. Form over function I guess.
Really? The terminal I did a layover in was super modern, bathrooms included. I wonder if you came in a different one?
Possibly. It has been like 10 years ago since I last flew through dubai though, so things might have changed.
Or just don’t be a cunt. They brought this entirely on themselves.
Why should it be legal to shout and swear at people who are just doing their job.
In many places it’s illegal to do this to someone on the street.
In the UK this would be a public order offense for threatening, harassing or intimidating behaviour. 2k fine or 6 months in prison.
It should be illegal and they should be punished, but the fine is ridiculous and 3 months of jail is disgusting.
In the UK you don’t treat someone like this for a single offense, where someone’s annoyed and has an outburst.
If you and the UAE are on the same page about how to punish people, maybe you should reflect on that.
The initial sentence was a fine. The sentence on appeal was 3 months imprisonment. Why should people be allowed to verbally assault others with no recourse?
Because it should be considered free speech (i know, this is Dubai)…unless you physically cause a scene you shouldn’t be arrested. Dubai is nuts, and this whole thing is nutters.
The guy is a dick, but a 10,000 dollar fine for being mean to someone? Come man, this isn’t pre-school.
10 000 Dh is not $10 000. It’s a lot less than that, more like $2700.
As for free speech…
Why differentiate between physically abusing somebody and verbally? Abuse is abuse. It should not be tolerated.
Still, 2.7k fine for an insult, in a single instance, is already bonkers, but three months jail time?
Whatever your stance on whether or not the guy should be punished, the extent of this punishment here really shouldn’t sound fair or just in any way
I’m thinking about it from the staff’s point of view.
I have mental health problems and an interaction like that would make it difficult for me to work.
His little outburst will actively affect the member of staff. Weird how no one is mentioning that.
I think it’s totally fair personally.
To fine an absurd amount and/or send them to jail for 3 whole months?
If one person being an ass causes one to spiral bad enough to warrant that kind of sentences, I would hazard a guess that they are extremely likely on a wrong occupational path. There’s no way interactions like that aren’t weekly for everyone working any service gig.
I get that it has an effect and nobody should behave like that, but I can’t believe anyone would deem these as proportional punishments.
You likely get same 3 months jail here where I live (a western social democracy) for manslaughter, if you are first-time offender. Depending on a lot of course, but that anyone would consider these appropriate seems insane to me.
Pretty standard really. This is from the UK
I don’t know UK law, but I’d be surprised if that would be applied in a similar case. Maybe someone can educate me here and give examples of such rulings, but I feel like the wording is so vague and wide, that this very same law could be applied to wildly different and much more serious and alarming cases, entirely on a different level.
If getting frustrated and calling a service worker names in a single, non-recurring instance, warrants anything more than a small fine at the very worst in the UK, I will be very surprised. But I’m willing to accept that’s a thing there, just not convinced by that quote alone.
“Pretty standard really” sounds very wild a statement, but then again, maybe UK is weird like that.
Edit: At this point I’m just very surprised to learn so many are of this opinion, so I’m just trying to get my bearings and understand if this is a common sentiment and way to look at things. I’d really like to know more if something like this truly is commonplace in a western country at this day and age.
At the end of the day people don’t go into work to feel threatened and scared for their safety.
Why the hell should people be allowed to do it? I’m surprised by the amount of people who think this is fine and shouldn’t be punished harshly tbh.
Well, I for one never said that it’s okay. And it isn’t. But there’s a long gap between “not fine, should have consequences” to “3 months in jail”.
Obviously people don’t go to work to get abused, I don’t think anyone claimed that. It’s hard to imagine anyone thinking that people should go to work to get abused. That’s just a weird thing to say.
“Why differentiate between physically abusing somebody and verbally?” Because of the obvious difference in severity. One insult doesn’t need medical attention, while a punch could put someone in the hospital.
You are intentionally underplaying the importance of mental wellbeing to justify odious behavior.
If someone insulting you causes harm to your mental wellbeing, you weren’t well in the first place.
Words have power. Politicians wouldn’t talk if they didn’t. Adverts would be mute.
How’s the mental wellbeing of women and foreign workers in Dubai? Know many gay men who feel safe there?
Ok, so since women already feel unsafe there, they should be allowed to be verbally abused by tourists?
I find it absolutely shocking how many people here are siding with the abusive asshole. 🙄
Because punishment should be proportional.
proportional to what exactly? to your poor ass, or to the rich dubai native? I would say the latter, because, you know, it happened in dubai.
punishemnt should be high enough so that next time he will think twice before he’s abusive. He was warned first, he said he didn’t care. He got a fine, he wasn’t happy with it either. So he’s in jail. I think it’s all perfectly fair. I bet my left nut he will never again be abusive to the staff in dubai.
Proportional to the crime…
how exactly do you objectively decide that? please, specify the methodology, I’d love to hear it. If anything, the crime should be based on what makes it stick, which usually means proportional to the wealth. Obviously the higher the standard in the country the higher the fines are going to be, and that standard is pretty damn high in dubai.
e.g. if you’re living in india where everything is objectively cheap for people in the west and you visit germany, get a 500 eur speeding fine, you cannot just cry “it’s not proportional to my standards!!11!1”.
Would you rather someone beat the shit out of you, or call you a bitch?
Neither.
If you don’t pick, someone beats the shit out of you. Pick one.
Ah, the cowards way out. Why engage with a question that obliterates your argument when you can feign moral superiority and refuse to think about it?
This is a shit application of free speech.
“I should be allowed to verbally assault anyone I want” nah abusive behaviour is not covered by this.
Assault is not free speech.
Did he hit the person, or just was rude, and inconsiderate? If it’s the former. Sure, but if it’s the later, then that’s just unfortunately stuff you deal with when you’re in customer service.
Why should anybody be forced to tolerate verbal assault?
Because they are not 5 years old and bursting into tears when someone does it. Get a grip dude, the world isn’t full of nice people dancing around the campfire, someone bitching at you for whatever reason out of your control is a normal day in the life of any customer service worker.
You are not harmed by mean words.
Apparently the Emiratis had the good sense not to take such a position, hence the legal consequences for vile and abusive language.
Sounds like another day in an authoritarian hell hole if you ask me, but language like that would get me locked up there. Cheers from Canada, fascist!
Because it’s part of their fucking job.
It’s not their job to be an emotional punching bag. That is not in any job description that I’ve read nor posted.
You wouldn’t have your sentence increased from a fine to a prison sentence for trying to appeal against it though. Let’s not pretend that the legal system in Dubai and UK are similar
If it’s a first time offence and non-violent it’s more likely not going to be custodial. Even if it was anything under 12 months custodial will be suspended.
Especially with prisons as packed as they currently are.
Read the article. No mention of what was said that I could see.
Yeah I refuse to ever take a flight route through any of those countries. I don’t care if it’s a 15 min layover.
Same. I wont even get close to that region of the world.
Eh, I’ve been through Dubai on a layover. It’s fine as long as you act normal and dress conservatively. Obviously there are people who can’t or won’t meet that standard but it’s genuinely fine for most people.
I’ll pass
Eh, okay.
Yea nah fuck that noise. I could dress in a burka wrapped around a hazmat suit and it would still take one “security” personnel to google me, see I’m queer, and hatecrime me with the full support of his autocratic, theocratic government.
Is it likely to happen? Prolly not. Do I want to take the risk? Nah, because it’s just way too dumb of a reason to end up gang raped in a UAE prison. In fact I’ll stick to democratic countries in general thankyouverymuch.
Yeah, absolutely. I didn’t want to get into all the people who can’t go through there without being at risk just for who they are. I’d never expect you or anyone else in the same situation to put yourself at risk just because the UAE doesn’t care about a middle age white guy.
Love how much OP is shilling for UAE. I doubt OP would be so okay with the jail sentence if it were them who had to serve it.
Just because I’m not accepting of much of the vile behavior that is tolerated in the West does not mean that I am shilling for the UAE.
You’re right, yelling at someone is super vile behavior. It should definitely be punished. I assume you also believe that freely expressing options about politics, or religion is also super vile and should be punished.
The west has its own issues, and the way people interact with each other is one of them, but the UAE is not in a position to pass judgement. The forced civility between civilians while the government carries out mass executions by beheading of dissidents is a thin vail over the same vile behavior you are decrying in your comments.
I’ve read all of your comments in this thread, you are 1000% shilling for UAE
Your assumptions are false and quite the leap from my objections to verbal assault. I am not a religious man, I take no issue with discussing politics.
Nowhere have I mentioned religious discourse or politics. The mere fact that you would bring such topics to the fore is suggestive of the bigoted lens through which many people in the West view other parts of the world.
Potty mouth language is ViLe wEstErn bEhavIor, meanwhile UAE has slaves and treats women as 2nd class citizens.
Thanks for proving my point.
Charging a person for three months for being an asshole is too much tho. With all diferent cultures and stuff, what can even grant such a sentence? Article didn’t specify it. I can’t believe a ranting brit can cause that much of a problem to lock him up.
2008: Authorities released father-of-three Andrew Brown, 43, from Birmingham, who had been serving a four-year jail sentence after police at Dubai airport found 0.003 grams (0.0001 ounce) of cannabis stuck to the sole of a shoe in his luggage last September, the daily 7 Days said.
A disgraceful incident but a completely different case.
What sucks is you know the rich fuckers in Dubai are doing every drug underneath the sun.
The rich fuckers abuse their slaves daily too.
I’m not a big fan of the UAE, but I do like the idea of criminalizing the abuse of service workers. The American “kiss their ass faster and more thoroughly” style isn’t fair to employees, and only rewards bad behavior.
That’s easily solvable by refusing service to someone who uses abusive language.
The only instance where words should get you jail time is if it’s a specific and targeted threat against someone, just being a douche is far too grey of an area to put people in prison for.
True. Jail time would often be overkill, but people need to understand that it’s not acceptable to threaten to take away someone’s livelihood (and often their health insurance) just because the employee is following company policy. That can be a much more serious threat than customers realize.
In order to refuse service, employees have to feel comfortable doing so. That means being certain that there will be no negative repercussions from management, and that management will back their decision 100%. Service workers shouldn’t have to choose between keeping their dignity or paying their rent.
Badly-behaved person meets a black sheep country.
I mean, insulting staff is disgusting behaviour, but 3 months of prison is absolutely insane. These countries are still hellholes stuck in the past, and I’ll make sure never to visit them.
He could have just paid the £2,150 fine, but instead he chose to appeal…
Engaging in legal action in a foreign country isn’t exactly the brightest idea. Pay the fine and get out.
Like, 3 months is an insane sentence, but it sounds like he just leaned in at every opportunity.
Ah, yes, the victim blaming.
The victim here is the abused worker, not the entitled tourist.
Okay bud, tell me more about how the hurt feefees justify jailtime in a shithole country.
This is more leopards ate my face territory. Go for a little trip to the place that’s kind of known for human rights abuses and a touch of disdain for western cultural values, and proceed to engage in activities that cause you to have to deal with their legal system. Twice.
If the UAE is a shithole then what is the UK? They have a similar law in place with a stiffer sentence if found guilty - www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/4
There is no world in which male Karen is the victim.
In the UK it could be up to 6 months jail. He got off light.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/4
Fuck Sharia law, fuck draconian abrahamic religions, fuck their way of life and their culture.
These asshats are going to drag us into the dark ages because of their make believe gods.
Yeah I’ll admit it. I hate religious people. Even the ones that don’t push these practices onto others.
It’s funny to me how the ones who fully follow their religious doctrine are called extremists when they’re actually the only ones actually following the written rules.
So you’re either aggressively trying to expand your influence on the world or your hypocritically cherry picking details to make you feel better about it.
Either way I’m sick of fucking hearing about it. Idgaf which sky daddy you pray to or believe is real. Idgaf about what your special book says you can or can’t do. Absolutely none of it holds any weight to me at all and it’s just modern barbarism using religious persecution as a shield to hide behind.
“They made fun of my religion 😭😭😭”
Yeah cause you just killed 3 women for not wearing the right piece of fuckin cloth on their heads.
Western bigotry… I’m a bit rusty, is that 6 months or 9 months in a decrepit cell?
Embrace science over religion. Socialism over cronyism.
Fuck Dubai.
It makes sense that a penalty is set proportional to the harm caused, so the 3 months sentence might make sense if the victim was genuinelly psychologically affected by it in a way that lasted a significant period, but for merelly feeling insulted 3 months seems the kind of “Justice not at all trying to be Just” you get when authoritarian moralism is encoded in Law, not at all what law-making should strive for in a country aiming for Rule Of Law were sentencing is guided by harm caused rather than the iron-fist enforcing of moral behaviours.
Of course, this being the UAE, I’m not at all surprised that the Law is not at all about doing what is Just, since unlike in Democracies that country doesn’t even attempt to have real Rule Of Law.
And yet, stupid games.
Wow my games aren’t stupid. Saying that is worth like a zillion months in a cell.
Yeah the punishment was extreme but what was the guy thinking? If you’re gonna travel to another country the least you should do is make yourself aware of the shit you might be in for.
A long flight can be stressful, sure, but you’re not in England now you silly sausage.
Man travels outside of UK and expects to be treated as if at home!!
It’s a crime in the UK too.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/64/section/4
Why do people still visit Dubai? There’s all kinds of harmless or relatively minor stuff that can get you thrown in prison there. I wouldn’t even change planes in that theocratic shithole.
I was told that they have cheap stuff in duty-free and the flights are cheaper than with some other transits.
But I agree with the sentiment, it’s probably not the best thing to support them by visiting and leaving your money with them