It does not matter what Belarus does. Fuck them and Lukashenka too obviously. But Poland can’t break international law and make these people suffer because of political bickering.
It’s cruel, inhumane and illegal. Poland is supposed to be better than Belarus on human rights.
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Oct 08:19
nextcollapse
No country has an obligation to carry the burden of serving and\or integrating an endless stream of immigrants from whatever country or conflict they are running from. That’s to to their decision informed not only by their policies, but also their capabilities. Poland is one of the poorer EU countries already, and Belarus (say Russia) use the situation to make EU either accept them and hold the burden or decline and look like they are baaad. But Russia\Belarus don’t want to hold them themselves and treat them like pests unless they can use them as a weapon against the EU, thus pushing them to the border where they themselves keep them in temporal concentration camps to bully Poland and other bordering countries to accept them.
MigratingApe@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 13 Oct 13:41
nextcollapse
Have you even read the links that you use to build an argument?! The Wikipedia page for The Convention itself says that the kind of people on the border with Belarus ARE NOT refugees, they do not match the definition of refugee as defined by The Convention and this problem is highlighted in the article!
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works
on 13 Oct 15:11
collapse
Can you quote some places that work in this exact scenario? These links look exhaustingly vague, and also old in a sense I do not see fresh edits put after the fall of USSR and Balkan wars and genocides - the cause of many running from that place in Europe itself. It is kinda weird. Nothing actualizing that after 9\11 and Syria too. And EU countries put public quotas of how many refugees they can take in with an agreement with the UN, and called out Belarus on using refugee crysis as a weapon… Can you point out what I don’t see there?
That it sometimes runs counter to your Centrist “sure, we can uphold the rights of SOME people, but surely not all” middle of the road nonsense doesn’t change the law.
Besides, contrary to xenophobic popular myth, immigrants are in general a net BENEFIT to the destination country’s economy, refugees especially so.
And that’s not even counting the benefits of a more diverse culture as opposed to the stagnant monoculture that anti-immigration conservatives tend to espouse.
Why’d not you paint me a fascist outright? It seems like you suppose I’m all for ethnostates and hate immigrants, and I’m not to dictate your vision.
I don’t know what experience you generalize by your second paragraph in my quote of you, I guess the american one? It is not a blanket statement because its’ success depends on processes of integration of said immigrants into existing system and coming shenanigans. My Russia does it wrong for example and I can tell about that but not in that thread as it’s irrelevant.
The later paragraph also depends on how they are integrated, if integrated at all.
ed: Like, if there’s no communication between the home community and refugees and they are distanced, there are no benefits to reap.
Can Germany break international law? Because most of the “asylum seekers” go straight for the German border, on which they setup border checks to stop them in Poland. But you won’t see an article about that, huh
And yet they are doing it, keeping the people that Russia and Belarus are pushing onto Poland inside Poland. So they can do it no problem it seems, don’t see many articles about that.
abff08f4813c@j4vcdedmiokf56h3ho4t62mlku.srv.us
on 15 Oct 14:26
collapse
They've been doing it since before the war started in Ukraine.
Unfortunately, there is a key distinguishing factor, as this was an explicit tactic by Belarus to hurt the EU by trying to overload it with asylum seekers (a lot of which were just tourists who wanted a cheap trip to Belarus and didn't expect to get forced into Poland at gun point).
There was a movie about the situation, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Border (which compares the handling unfavorably to the refugee situation caused by the war in Ukraine).
Ideally an agency of the EU would be able to directly step in here and vet and accept genuine asylum seekers and refugees (and transport them to other EU members to lower the burden on Poland) while allowing the rest to be given tickets home.
RudeDuner@lemmy.world
on 13 Oct 15:54
nextcollapse
They need to go back and fix their own problems. Stop expecting the west to fix countries broken by Islam.
You’re not allowed to notice that. You have to applaud that they’re pro-EU, centre-left, well dressed and smile with their perfectly white teeth. Democracy was restored with no legislation and EU loves us now.
…PiS is going to win the next parliamentary elections and I’m not even sorry for my fellow Poles.
“We really would have liked to keep them alive, but we are just forced to kill them now”
The Nazis took a decade and a half of dehumanizing Jews before escalating into the industrial genocide that was the Holocaust. We already had two decades of dehumanizing Arabs and other “brown” people. We already had people argue on major news outlets that it would be “best” to let as many people drown as possible in the Mediterranean so that less people would try fleeing in boats. As things are moving, Europe could become the gas-chamber operator for the US as it sets the entire Middle East ablaze.
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Fuck the new polish government. They’re no better than the Law an Justice one that they were supposed to replace.
Belarus doesn’t take them and forces them further that is said to be a part of a hybrid warfare blind to these people’s woes.
Humanitarian law is law. Fuck politics, these people have right to asylum.
Where? Why not in Belarus? Why are they shoveled up at the border and made to stay there instead of being housed in Bela?
It does not matter what Belarus does. Fuck them and Lukashenka too obviously. But Poland can’t break international law and make these people suffer because of political bickering.
It’s cruel, inhumane and illegal. Poland is supposed to be better than Belarus on human rights.
No country has an obligation to carry the burden of serving and\or integrating an endless stream of immigrants from whatever country or conflict they are running from. That’s to to their decision informed not only by their policies, but also their capabilities. Poland is one of the poorer EU countries already, and Belarus (say Russia) use the situation to make EU either accept them and hold the burden or decline and look like they are baaad. But Russia\Belarus don’t want to hold them themselves and treat them like pests unless they can use them as a weapon against the EU, thus pushing them to the border where they themselves keep them in temporal concentration camps to bully Poland and other bordering countries to accept them.
Have you even read the links that you use to build an argument?! The Wikipedia page for The Convention itself says that the kind of people on the border with Belarus ARE NOT refugees, they do not match the definition of refugee as defined by The Convention and this problem is highlighted in the article!
Can you quote some places that work in this exact scenario? These links look exhaustingly vague, and also old in a sense I do not see fresh edits put after the fall of USSR and Balkan wars and genocides - the cause of many running from that place in Europe itself. It is kinda weird. Nothing actualizing that after 9\11 and Syria too. And EU countries put public quotas of how many refugees they can take in with an agreement with the UN, and called out Belarus on using refugee crysis as a weapon… Can you point out what I don’t see there?
Why’d not you paint me a fascist outright? It seems like you suppose I’m all for ethnostates and hate immigrants, and I’m not to dictate your vision.
I don’t know what experience you generalize by your second paragraph in my quote of you, I guess the american one? It is not a blanket statement because its’ success depends on processes of integration of said immigrants into existing system and coming shenanigans. My Russia does it wrong for example and I can tell about that but not in that thread as it’s irrelevant.
The later paragraph also depends on how they are integrated, if integrated at all.
ed: Like, if there’s no communication between the home community and refugees and they are distanced, there are no benefits to reap.
Can Germany break international law? Because most of the “asylum seekers” go straight for the German border, on which they setup border checks to stop them in Poland. But you won’t see an article about that, huh
And yet they are doing it, keeping the people that Russia and Belarus are pushing onto Poland inside Poland. So they can do it no problem it seems, don’t see many articles about that.
They've been doing it since before the war started in Ukraine.
Unfortunately, there is a key distinguishing factor, as this was an explicit tactic by Belarus to hurt the EU by trying to overload it with asylum seekers (a lot of which were just tourists who wanted a cheap trip to Belarus and didn't expect to get forced into Poland at gun point).
There was a movie about the situation, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Border (which compares the handling unfavorably to the refugee situation caused by the war in Ukraine).
Ideally an agency of the EU would be able to directly step in here and vet and accept genuine asylum seekers and refugees (and transport them to other EU members to lower the burden on Poland) while allowing the rest to be given tickets home.
They need to go back and fix their own problems. Stop expecting the west to fix countries broken by Islam.
No. It absolutely does matter what Belarus does. What the hell is wrong with you?
I obviously meant that in the context of human rights and the basic right to asylum.
un.org/…/universal-declaration-of-human-rights
You’re not allowed to notice that. You have to applaud that they’re pro-EU, centre-left, well dressed and smile with their perfectly white teeth. Democracy was restored with no legislation and EU loves us now.
…PiS is going to win the next parliamentary elections and I’m not even sorry for my fellow Poles.
We are in trouble
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Tell me what changed between one year ago and today without mentioning that there’s someone else in charge. Go ahead.
We can’t deal with migrants now, let’s wait to see what happens when the middle east is inhabitable in summer.
“We really would have liked to keep them alive, but we are just forced to kill them now”
The Nazis took a decade and a half of dehumanizing Jews before escalating into the industrial genocide that was the Holocaust. We already had two decades of dehumanizing Arabs and other “brown” people. We already had people argue on major news outlets that it would be “best” to let as many people drown as possible in the Mediterranean so that less people would try fleeing in boats. As things are moving, Europe could become the gas-chamber operator for the US as it sets the entire Middle East ablaze.