Alarm as Pentagon Confirms Deployment of US Troops to Israel
(www.commondreams.org)
from return2ozma@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 14 Oct 2024 02:24
https://lemmy.world/post/20826155
from return2ozma@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 14 Oct 2024 02:24
https://lemmy.world/post/20826155
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There is a lot about this that is nuts, but one thing that really jumps out at me.
It seems like Netanyahu is planning an October surprise to shank Harris. And it seems like he is doing it in broad daylight. It certainly seems like a massive offensive strike on Iran one or two weeks before the election is a straightforward way to throw a close election to Trump.
But with this I have to ask: are Biden and Harris assisting with a plan that is clearly intended to cost Harris the election?
I want to say that they surely must’ve told Israel not to launch anything before election day. But based in their actions so far, it doesn’t seem like they’re imposing a “no election interference against us personally” requirement as a condition of their assistance.
I guess we’ll see.
Their messaging so far to Israel has been “do whatever the fuck you want, 💰💰”
“You give me money, I give you weapons of war. You give me money, I ignore the screams of children.”
[the sound of children screaming has been removed]
Oof. Horrific.
I would much rather see a Harris administration handle this than chaos Trump.
This is a weird thing to say, but I actually don’t think that there’s any indication that Harris or Trump would do anything substantially different with regard to Israel, but the biggest change is that if Trump wins, I suspect that coverage of this will disappear behind all the coverage of his domestic chaos. At least if Harris is president I think there is a chance we see the press maintain a modicrum of interest in covering this.
Either way, words can’t describe my anger that Harris appears to be prepared to throw the election over her support for genocide. It is an unreal situation to watch.
There is a lot a gray out there.
Fuckface 45 literally said that Israel should “finish the job”:
middleeastmonitor.com/20240628-trump-let-israel-f…
I’m not voting for that Fuckface. Neither should any intelligent person.
So the one says it out loud, the other just keeps the intention quiet.
Both are equally sending weapons.
However with Trump we saw that he pulled American soldiers out of the region and he is much more unstable. So when American soldiers die, he could just decide to fold the whole thing again.
That would require him to give a shit about the soldiers dying to make a change. His history says the exact opposite of that. Soldiers dying would do absolutely nothing towards whether he changes anything.
Trump pulled most troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Sure he doesnt care about the soldiers life, but he isnt committed to being a war hawk. He just does random stuff.
The troop withdrawal was already being worked before Trump even started campaigning. He just decided to speed it up dramatically so he could say he achieved something, and promised a deadline that was unattainable while doing it well. It’s not random, it’s narcissism at the expense of everything else, including the country.
Yeah it was in the works for like 20 years lol.
No intelligent person should vote for a party supporting a genocide either. Israel government is finishing the job already.
Ok. But either Harris or Trump WILL be our next president with how fucked up our election system is.
Who would you rather fight on this? A run of the mill democrat, or a literal nazi? We’re choosing our opponent, it’s the only choice we get.
Don’t support any of them and use your energies somewhere else, you said yourself that the system is fucked up
Okay black pill bro. When you grow up and understand how things actually work, let us know.
Maybe those of us who are actively trying (while also understanding how our choices work) will acquire Ranked Choice voting before you become mature enough to join in on this non-black-or-white conversation.
Advocating for the government and ruling parties is actively trying to empower them even more.
You some champion of missing the point?
Sure. And then trump wins and i completely lose my reproductive rights and my trans wife loses her healthcare.
There’s more at stake here.
There’s indeed more at stake, there’s an ongoing genocide in gaza where kids are being murdered daily. If you care about human rights that’s even more reason for you to stop supporting the parties that for decades have fuck over these rights.
It’ll disappear by him shutting down all news organizations and outlawing any dissenting opinions. He’s straight up said it. There is no functional difference on this issues between them. It’s the ancillary consequences trump will impose on everyone that is why he should be fired into the sun as an example.
Its also weird that Trump rallies are full of Nazi flags but Israel still sends them similar bribes anyway.
Zionism is an anti-semitic ideology. It was concocted by atheist colonizers, not religious leaders. The goals are colonial, not religious. Most importantly zios commit these crimes while claiming to be the only true jews. This is extremely anti-semitic.
So it’s no surprise that they’ve collaborated with literal nazis before WW2. And it’s no surprise that they continue to collaborate with racists and fascists all over the planet. In the usa the vast majority of zionists are christians that are generally very anti-semitic. They want jews to take over palestine so doomsday will come and kill the jews! These are the allies of zionism smh.
A significant number of jews across the globe say otherwise. The very foundation of your argument is self serving propoganda. And I didnt read past that.
Trump in charge tends to highlight problems not burry them. Like how immigration and the border camps were a huge story, then Biden got elected, kept all the same staff and same facilities and suddenly the border camps weren’t a problem and we went further rightward on immigration. People stop paying attention when Democrats win, that’s how they burry stories, and that’s why the media loves Trump, because hes the one who generates the clicks and engagement they track.
Trump would tell Netanyahu to nuke the place and he’d fucking do it. It would be a catastrophe the likes of which we haven’t seen since WWII.
She most likely was in the room when Biden authorized the troops you know. She is very much on the same page as Biden on this.
Sucks you guys don’t have any other option.
You have no way of knowing that.
She did say she supports Bidens stance on Israel and that israel has the right to
murder innocent childrenprotect itself.To be fair I think most people think it (and other countries) should be able to defend itself… it’s just that they went from defense to all out genocide like a year ago.
The current party doesn’t know where that line is while the other party wants them to “finish the job”.
The president is supposed to be smarter than “most people” not more genocidal.
There was never any “defense” in zionism. It’s always been theft, apartheid, and genocide.
Lastly the vast majority of countries at the UN are strongly opposed to this aggression and they have repeatedly passed resolutions that the zionists should reverse their nonstop aggression.
Of the two she’s the one whose had statements about Israel needing to respect international law. So there’s no evidence she believes Israel should be allowed to conduct a genocide.
Didn’t she just say the other week there’s nothing she wouldn’t do differently from Biden?
Which to this point has been attempts at a cease fire and offshore missile defense help. Putting troops under Iranian missiles is a massive departure from the past year.
No, up to this point it has been billions of dollars and weapons to Israel with the occasional finger wag to them. Troops on the ground is the natural next step of his policy up to now, and congruent with Kamala’s statements that “Iran is the number one enemy”.
Absolutely not. She has never endorsed that.
Oh I’m sure she’ll speak against it any minute now, but I wouldn’t hold my breath…
You should check out her speeches and interviews sometime.
I have. She generally tries to walk a line between fully pro Israel and neutrality.
It feels like they are totally beholden to Israel.
If they push back hard, they alienate swing voters who like Israel from the old days, aka apocalypse.
A majority of Americans are against the action in Gaza. It is a popular opinion not to support it, unless you’re a major donor.
A majority of those who actually turn out to vote are pro Israel (and no, people under 35 don’t vote in other countries where they have more options, so cut the “they don’t vote because of the support for Israel” bullshit, they don’t vote because they’re young and don’t care)
Okay, well the Harris campaign can continue claiming that the reason she’s down in the polls in Michigan has nothing to do with Gaza.
So in the last few weeks, Biden can pull support as much as possible basically giving Bibi the finger. Any funding that dries up is unlikely to have more of an effect than pulling support. This helps Harris win. Then she can re-woo them over the next 4 years.
This is actually a persistent myth: there is no evidence that they are beholden to a constituency that would punish them for any actions that curtail Israel.
Israel’s actions are wildly unpopular across the electorate. They are unpopular with nearly all Democrats as well as most independents and a very large plurally of Republicans. I have seen numerous polls that show that there is a very significant number of voters that Harris is losing over this, and I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate that there is any measurable cost to her speaking out against Israel at all. Which is really sad. Because it means that this is absolutely a moral choice on her part. This is not an electoral choice at all.
truthout.org/…/poll-endorsing-israel-arms-embargo…
I am not religious so I don’t know the details but I have a friend who is very religious and refuses to vote for Trump again. He hates Harris but won’t give me a reason. When I have brought up the Israel stuff he immediately jumps to a very, holy land, must support and defend at any cost mentality. He would never vote Democrat but it makes me wonder how pervasive this weird fairy tale attachment exists throughout the voting base.
That’s a good question. Is your friend an evangelical Christian? A lot of people don’t know this, but the actual biggest plurality of political Zionists in the US are not Jews, but Evangelical Christians who support Israel because they believe it is a chess piece in bringing about the end of the world (which is a good thing in their dogma).
They also happen to often like the idea of ethnofascism, which is a very sad state of affairs.
He is evangelical Christian yes. I don’t have much exposure to religion. I have gone to his church a couple times when he has asked me to in the decade or so we’ve been friends. I’m in my forties. I’ve never felt pressured but I also keep my religion or lack of to myself. I just never really understood the position on Israel and it really stuck out to me. Even though he will freely admit how crazy and hateful things are out of the MAGA crowd, I get the feeling anytime the topic gets close to coming up with me he fends it off by essentially communicating to me that he has unwavering and unquestioned support of Israel and I haven’t been willing to push it since he is otherwise a great person in my life that has helped me through a number of difficulties.
That’s a shame. For what it’s worth, his position isn’t a mystery to me. I believe that he’s been convinced by his church that unquestioningly supporting Israel’s expansionary goals, regardless of any other moral question is an absolute necessity for anyone who truly loves Jesus and believes strongly in his rebirth and in the promise of everlasting life in heaven.
It is – with all due respect – as crazy as anything you’d hear in a Texas cult bunker. But I’m guessing that it’s real as a wildfire to your friend. It makes me sad to think about.
I appreciate the insight and time you have taken to respond. Also your understanding. I have a really difficult time processing the situation. It does feel very cult like and matter of fact. I don’t understand how someone that seems so good can know something so bad is going on, who is so obviously able to recognize the bad in other related areas, and blindly vehemently support them unquestionably. He’s intelligent and successful…yet so lost, the most caring and compassionate person I know; it can’t be ok.
If it makes you feel any better, I remind myself that I myself am subject to the same irrationalities and motivated reasoning as anyone else. We’re all just people, and people aren’t logic machines. We’re bundles of impulses and habits that live within whatever stories our minds have to create to make sense of all of this.
In this context, if you’re looking for some kind of remedy, the best I can offer is that instead of trying to bother disputing with myths and superstitions, recognize that anyone who grows out of them usually does so because they find some other way to the same fundamental bedrock notions. Your friend wants to adhere to the rules laid out by the creator. They want to be worthy of Christ’s love.
I think if you were inclined to change their mind – which I’m not recommending – it would be when this comes up to remind him how many people have been seduced into supporting ungodly things thinking they were following God’s will. That’s Satan’s number one tactic. So all we can do is stay humble and listen to our hearts. If seeing kids living in Bethlehem struggling to survive under an oppressive king just as Jesus and his parents did seems wrong, it’s okay to not have a confident stance. Maybe your pastor says it’s God’s plan, but no one – not even the disciples – could ever no God’s plan for sure. You don’t have to have a stance. You can say “God’s will will be done. He does not require my involvement.”
Perhaps if he does that, then Joe and Harris will be forced to materially change their tune and take some real action in an attempt to save the elction.
if they money you get from AIPAC is more than the money you get as US presidency and without the headache of being president, I wounder if Kamala care enough to be a president.
The insanity is not that it is Republicans or Democrats
The insane part is that America is just sleep walking straight into a war that will probably escalate into something much bigger and no one wants to do anything about it.
God help us all
Make me homelander and I’d shut this shit down in a heartbeat. Until such time best I got is a pencil check in a box on paper.
you can still john wick with that tho
Maybe you can.
All the money I’d earmarked for kung fu lessons and a collection of random lethal weapons wound up going into pet care and hobbies. Besides, I definitely don’t have plot armor. I’d get popped by some junior security mail cop. They probably wouldn’t even have to shoot me. They’d run me over with their Segway, I’d fall, crack my head open, and they’d put a little skull and crossbones sticker on their scooter, like a WWII fighter pilot.
“Never underestimate Joe Bidens ability to fuck everything up”. --Barrack Obama
I know this is a dumb question, but is that based on anything? Like a paraphrase of something? Or just headcanon?
I think it was during this series of events: theintercept.com/…/biden-debt-ceiling-harry-reid-…
Wow. Thanks for sharing that.
As every other time the billions the government spend in propaganda are paying off.
If Harris is in on a plan to strike Iran it wouldn’t cost her the election in the US. All they have to do is say, “We received credible intelligence that Iran had decided to sprint for a nuclear warhead. We had to act in a timely manner.”
What would cost her the election is if an American soldier dies to an Iranian missile and Biden/Harris doesn’t immediately go hard on Iran. Which makes this a ridiculously irresponsible move by Biden.
It wouldnt even need to be much of a shanking for her to lose. A simple paper cut might be enough.
Nobody snatches defeat from the jaws of victory like a Democrat.
Do you realize that israel government is waging war only because they are backed by USA?
en.wikipedia.org/…/United_States_support_for_Isra…
Yes, and zios will be even more backed by Trump (supposedly).
It’s not even a hidden thing. Yahoo wants Trump. Grift recognize grift.
I’m not sure what your point is.
I understand that this is in a real sense the US’s war, and that Biden is not being dragged into it, he’s fully committed to it. I’m not sure what that changes about my observation that it’s weird that Harris appears to be facilitating an electoral hit job on herself.
This is one of those times we should remind ourselves that if we as Redditors can plainly see something so out in the open and obvious, then almost certainly the executive branch can see it too. The odds of them knowing something we don’t know are overwhelmingly greater than the reverse.
I see this often, and it’s frequently, consistently not the case.
I understand the sense in this belief, but if you review history over just the last five years you can consistently see this not being true over and over. Going all the way back to the Iraq War: it was obvious at the time that the Bush administration was lying about their claimed evidence that there was an active program creating weapons of mass destruction. And at the time, there was a deafening movement of regular voters who loudly protested that we were absolutely convinced that it was complete and obvious bullshit.
And people like JOE BIDEN loudly expressed exactly what you’re saying: they know things we don’t know. They know what they’re doing.
And they didn’t! They did not have any meaningful information we didn’t have!
Sadly, it’s debatable whether they knew what they were doing. Did they expect it would be such a historic clusterfuck? That it would create decades of worsening outcomes for us? Probably not. But did they know they were making up a fake case for war because they wanted to let off some anger over 9/11 by killing hundreds and hundreds of THOUSANDS uninvolved Muslims, and build some new military bases near oil in the process? Yes. Obviously yes.
And after the fact, the people who claimed that they knew things that we didn’t became president and Secretary of State.
They do not know something we don’t know. They are doing exactly what this looks like. Biden would absolutely go to war with Iran just to serve the cause of Zionism even though he knows that Benjamin Netanyahu is a fascist. That is exactly what this is. There’s not chess logic behind this, you can absolutely know everything you need to if you read newspapers regularly.
The WMD were always a false pretext.
And anyway, you can’t cherry pick any one episode or even several from history where the heads of state were wrong or stupid and say that they don’t know more than we do. They literally have everything we have in the public media and enormous intelligence operations working for them. This doesn’t make them honest or infallible, but anyone who sits in their armchair tut tutting about how “gee I hope this president can see it’s an obvious trap” is, in a word, a fool.
I think you’re arguing a strawman version of my point. I’m not claiming that it’s impossible for them to know something we don’t. I’m just saying that the assumption that there is secret information that makes his actions sensible is not well founded.
There are numerous examples of leaders claiming expertise that wasn’t borne out. And if this were the case, I think it would be reasonable to expect them to at least claim this to be the case.
As it stands, this behavior can be fully explained with the information available to us and Biden’s foreign policy stance. So there is no reason when you see him doing something that can be easily explained by the observation that he has poor judgement and priorities that are wildly different than most Americans to believe that there is a reason outside of the public facts and our existing knowledge of his poor judgement and unpopular priorities.
If you want to narrow your point that’s fine but I never said that there must be some reason their actions make sense. I said they can be wrong or duplicitous but they necessarily have more access to information than we do and that’s a plain fact you can’t talk your way past with all the hindsight in the world.
Oh fuck.
Biden is really trying to start a whole new war and make the Democrats lose this election.
He is petty enough to do that. We’ll and doesn’t seem to give a shit about what terrible things Israel does
Either he’s making too much money from AIPAC to stop now. Or he’s bitter about being pushed out of the race for president this election. Or both.
Or he’s a true believer. He’s admitted to being a Zionist. The man has a history of being as Pro Israeli as humanly possible to the detriment of everyone else.
This is just who Biden is. His lack of morals make him believe Israel is doing the right thing.
Agreed. It seems Biden decided at some point that he must side with Israel, no matter the cost. (I’m sure Iran intel is not helping.) Netanyahu sees no downside to ruthlessly using this against him, with a bonus of helping elect a more useful idiot.
I’m not sure if Biden has jelly for brains these days. The poor fool has been getting increasingly humiliated by Israel for a year. It’s painful to watch, along with the devastation it’s caused.
Biden has always been a narcissist. And many 80 year olds do get pretty petty and selfish, from what I’ve seen. We really need an age cap on government service so we dont have to go through this again. On supreme court justices and congressman too. Dying on the bench or in office of old age is wildly unacceptable for such important roles. GTFO.
Honestly, I think Biden supports this unwaveringly because it aligns with US policy to keep the region destabilized.
I mean they helped overthrow the Shah, aided the Taliban in fighting the soviets, invaded Iraq and Kuwait (which led directly to the creation of jihadist state – ISIS), aided a US-aligned faction in the Syrian civil war, helped put down the 2011 democratic revolutions… there is so much more.
And for what? To keep them from realizing they are all arabs and are sitting on the largest collective reserves of oil in the world…
Evil Empire.
Holy shit tell me more. I'm an Arab and this is my first time hearing of this.
I found a paper on this here: www.jstor.org/stable/…/arabstudquar.35.3.0255
Seems like they were actually on the side of the dictators in Tunisia, Egypt and Yemen until they realized that they’d collapse. I think Libya is very well remembered, they just completely ruined what was formerly a stable, wealthy country (although a dictatorship of course).
Also especially in Egypt when the elections didn’t turn out the way they wanted it because the Muslim Brotherhood candidate won, they backed the regime change and since then Egypt has a new dictator loyal to the US and Israel.
The MIC has more control over US foreign policy than the US political class (including the president) because America is a shadow plutocracy — controlled by the near-circular venn-diagram of its wealthiest individuals and corporations — masquerading as a “democracy”. Americans are able to vote in free elections, but 90% of the politicians on state and federal ballots are pre-approved, pre-positioned, and directly financed by the plutocracy. Most of the laws passed by congress are directly written by corporate legal teams, packed with unrelated provisions to allocate public money to corporations; they don’t even read or understand exactly what they’re voting on most of the time… This is ultimately the case in every “democracy”, just with varying degrees of gratuity and success.
The proof is honestly in most of the US’s present and past actions, both domestically and internationally (including the undying support for Israel). They’ve been allied with, and militarily supported, countless dictators all around the world for centuries, because dictatorships are more profitable for American plutocrats than democracy. Democracy poses a direct threat to corporate power and profits, and is literally why they overthrew the Shah in Iran. I genuinely believe that MAGA is more a power play by the plutocracy to formally end American democracy once and for all (with thunderous applause) and solidify the corporate dictatorship through a fascist theocracy… Otherwise they will continue to face the threat of left leaning movements like Bernie Sanders actually coming to fruition.
Well time to find out if Iran has a nuke and if we get to solve climate change by inducing a nuclear winter(yes I know nuclear winter isn’t real).
That’s not a consensus view.
Wikipedia
There isn’t currently a scientific consensus, as wikipedia should be pointing out, with studies differing massively depending mostly on what model of soil uptake and preservation in atmosphere is used.
We know that the majority of in air debris would not come from the explosion, which is designed to minimize fallout in all modern weapons and deployment models, but from the resulting fires. We also know from previous tests the resulting fires don’t actually last long as they tend to burn through areas quickly.
In short it’s not a sure thing, and if any cooling effect does occur it wouldn’t start to touch the average heating we’ve introduced through climate change.
That long Wikipedia article conveys quite well how there isn’t consensus. We don’t know how bad it would be, because our various best models give different results. But to say it’s not a sure thing is different from saying “nuclear winter isn’t real,” which suggests a consensus that it won’t happen.
Sounds like someone is trying to immanentize the eschaton.
I feel so bad for the people being deployed and their families. These people are being positioned to be triggers for a war against Iran. They believe it will be easier to manufacture consent for that war if the administration (whichever one we have) can point to dead Americans. Sick shit.
They should point to the Americans killed by Israel
Give me links so I can send them to my maga parents
apnews.com/…/american-shot-killed-west-bank-israe…
edition.cnn.com/2024/10/13/us/…/index.html
They don’t care about kids dying in their own backyards. They definitely don’t give a shit about Americans abroad.
There’s plenty of dead Americans already on both sides of this conflict. But somehow the brown ones don’t get mentioned.
We both know the only color that will matter here is green. The second an American soldier is killed by an Iranian missile Trump and the GOP will campaign on full war with Iran. I honestly don’t know what’s going on with Biden, this is ridiculously bad for any attempt to reduce tensions.
Manufacture consent? That’s gotta be the phrase for what’s been happening with media coverage about anything China related. The media really seems to be playing up the idea of a war with China so that the population would accept and support said war. We should not. I don’t really like China and they’ve even ruined my favorite videogame, but war is good for noone.
Imagine dying not to protect US people or not even their interest.
Won’t be the first time.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
100 troops is not enough to invade Iran, you silly armchair-general fucks commenting here.
No, but 100 dead troops is enough to grandstand about to get enough outrage to justify an all-out war in the region.
Unless the US military is stupid to keep all 100 of them in a single easily bombable location, there’s no fucking way on this green earth a single one of them will die in any combat, especially if they are simply manning air defense outposts spread across the country like what the article that no one here reads actually said.
Fun fact, Air Defense is a priority target in missile saturation attacks because it makes it easier for follow on missiles to hit their targets.
Even funner fact: anyone remember the USS Liberty? A common thought is Israel did that to pull us into their war then. Nowadays you would have a presidential candidate boldly declaring that [insert ‘vile’ country of choice] killed our troops and we must rush to war against them. I bet there are israeli leaders just salivating at the idea of repeating the scenario.
Nah, they didn’t want us seeing what they were doing. They weren’t going to pull us into their war by being the ones to hit our ship. Now? with this though? Absolutely. They want to pull us in until we’re too far to back out without the next president spending all of their political capital on day one. We’re about to see the real danger of a lame duck presidency and the GOP will never let us forget it afterward. Even if they’re the ones beating the drums now.
So why did he send them? To help with tel aviv mcdonalds understaffing issue?
Anti missile and aircraft systems are obviously the #1 targets in any attack. And the Israelis gain much more by letting them get hit than by making sure those units are protected in any way. They might even secretly shoot at them themselves to speed things up. I would not want to be one of those THAAD operators.
Not the point.
What happens when Iran manages to kill an American soldier a week before the election?
I hate how I can't even comfort myself by knowing this idiocy will cost them the election because these fucks are the less horrible option.
Yep, this is coming from the most ‘leftist’ candidates we are allowed to vote for. Pretty fucked up options we get to choose from. I hate it here.
You can always vote more left, and should vote more left if you live in a dem stronghold like California.
As an aside, “THAAD battery” sounds like someone harnessed exasperation towards a rich kid and converted it into electricity 😁
It isn’t bad enough that we’re arming the genocide and the unchecked aggression against Israel’s neighbors? Now we’ve got to fucking participate in it?
You’ve already been participating: The failed aid pier had one use, and it was a military one.
Ah yes, killing all those innocent civilians hidden in incoming Iranian ballistic missiles…
Right. We will be defending Israel from the incoming Iranian ballistic missiles after they kill innocent civilians on a scale larger than they already have been, prompting a response from Iran large enough that the iron dome is not capable of handing it. Which totally doesn’t make us participants. We’re not directly doing the bloodshed, just enabling it and defending Israel from feeling any consequences.
It’s been more than 75 years of participation.
One day closer to World War 3, I guess.
Remember you HAVE to vote for the genocide!
Doubt either GOP or DEM would change course. Any third party that said f Isreal that support abortion rights and right to bear arms?
Some hours later: Biden absolutely, positively sends troops to help Israel out. WTF…
To support UN peacekeepers, right?
… right?
“absolutely, positively”
Wtf is going on in this comments section? They are sending an anti air battery to protect them against rocket fire, but the bulk of the comments are acting like they are sending in troops to go in on the ground into Gaza/Lebanon.
Does really noone even bother to read the article?
I am not a US citizen. My point is not that US troops are being deployed, but that this is a war of aggression that contradicts international law. The US should not support this - not in any way.
I agree that they shouldn’t be supporting it. But we’re talking about defending a country against missile attacks, not violating some potential ceasefire by launching missiles for Israel.
They’re enabling Israel’s aggression by providing military support, even defensive support. Not to mention adding US troops to the area increases chances some will get killed or injured, providing an excuse to enter the conflict even more.
I was responding to someone who claimed that by sending tools to stop weapons from killing people, Biden is violating his call for a ceasefire.
You can disagree with this, but claiming it’s aggressive is just blatantly false.
The thing is that Israel was never attacked in a military sense. It was a terrible terrorist attack, that much is true. Israel retaliated - not only against those responsible, but above all against the Palestinian civilian population. The number of victims is simply disproportionate: the attack on October 7, 2023 claimed 1,200 lives; Israel has now killed more than 40,000 Palestinians (this is a conservative estimate). There is no longer any danger for Israel - and in terms of its military superiority, there hasn’t been any for the last 20 years. Lebanon is only marginally involved in all this. Hezbollah is not Hamas. I don’t want to go too far with all the his. It’s simple: what Israel is doing is wrong on any moral scale. Anyone who doesn’t see that is grossly misinformed.
Noone is defending Israel’s invasion here. Your top level comment implied that Biden is violating his own call to a ceasefire by sending these troops in …when they are a defensive unit. No missile attacks, no need to use the defensive battery.
What do you want me to say? With a view to the US election campaign, I’m glad to say: Vote for Harris/Walz! The apparent alternative Trump/Vance would be much worse even in this matter. I have no problem to say that because it’s true. That does not mean that you are fighting a just cause here - on the contrary. It just means that your political system is in shambles and that your moral compass if way off.
What I would love is for people to read the article and then objectively think about it for a second, rather than just knee-jerk respond to the headline in a way that confirms what they already believe to be true, seemingly regardless of what is actually happening.
All I did was correct the misinformation you were spreading. There are plenty of valid reason to criticize the Biden admin over, no need to make ones up.
What misinformation? I said: Biden said he “criticizes” Israels attacks on UN peacekeepers and - still - he sends additional troops to Israel just a few day later. These are just facts.
You frame it as some contradiction, which it is clearly not.
I did not frame this at all. I just quoted Biden and said that in the light of this quote from just a few days ago I couldn’t understand (“WTF”) why he is sending additional troops. Please don’t pin this on me. I get that you are trying to fight the good fight here (I agree that it would be awful for the whole world if Trump would win). I’m just saying that this is a bad move by Biden because deploying even more troops in support of Israel is not just morally wrong (that was my point as an observer from europe) it’s also very bad PR - that’s what I think at least, because I think the majority of sane Us-citizenens don’t want to have any part in the inhumane actions of the Israeli Government.
Zios are in danger as long as the rightful inheritors of the stolen land are alive.
That’s the whole point of their genocide.
This emboldens the bully Israel. Now they know that no matter who they pick on, they will never feel any real counter-attacks because the US will stop them all. This encourages them to continue their attacks and to pick new fights because there will never be any consequences. If Biden wants to encourage Netanyahu to stop his wars of aggression, he needs to make Israel second guess their attacks.
This move absolutely counters his message for a ceasefire. This will embolden them to keep fighting.
Lemmy is too obsessed with elections and swallowed the bait. Seeing everyone’s reaction I did.
Luckily I’ve looked a bit further down the thread to find something not about elections, and saw this comment.
The title is hella misleading and clickbait. We should restrict people from posting such BS.
The people are fools and leaders are cunts.
Oh shit. Either he’s trolling Harris’s campaign or they really are a cult. Very popular decision joe, sure people will forget till november.
I got to believe Bibi has him by the balls somehow. It’s the only thing that makes sense.
Can we article 25 this fool? Harris might have a better chance if she’s already been president for a bit anyway.
But Harris will most likely just send more troops. She did confirm she „supports” israel.
You think it’s just Biden that has hands in this? Israel would never have been so bold if the USA didn’t move it’s embassy to Jerusalem and that choice was not Bidens.
It’s quite obvious the Israelis have many US politicians either in their payroll, or have dirt on them. That-s pretty much standard operating procedure for the Israeli intelligence services. They are masters at those things. All you have to see is their depth of infiltration in Muslim countries.
I hate that, but I must admit they are impressive.
Or, old fucks who were born around the time of the holocaust still think of all Jewish people as victims of the holocaust and can’t wrap their head around the fact that some Jewish people can be just as horrible as anyone else.
Governments and rulers had every peasant below them by the balls for centuries. What are you going to do about troops being deployed to aid israel?
For sure. Good luck grabbing her by the balls.
I have only heard this used in referring to Republicans. How did you come up with that description, especially in this context?
Probably from the talking points that were sent over by their handlers this morning.
Seems it could be a good guess
Don’t even try that both sides are the same shit.
They’re pretty damn close on middle east policy
Harris thanked Dick Cheney for all that he’s done last week…
Always were.
Zionism is a genocidal cult that branched off from judaism.
This happens with every religion where the fascists start their own cult.
So hold on, no troops in Ukraine, because they’re not NATO, but troops in Israel no problem?
Or is it because US is scared shitless of Putin? Or is it because a lot of prople sympathise eith Putin?
Maybe there’s no profit in aiding Ukraine?
If Putin didn’t have the nuclear card in his pocket US boots would have been on the ground in Ukraine 2 years ago.
Doesn’t Iran have nuclear weapons as well?
Not currently
They literally tested one like a week ago.
You absorb disinfo like a sponge? Citations needed.
Not that we know of, it’s possible they are getting there though.
We have a top secret base there, just like Korea and Vietnam early troops usually come in and break shit you can’t let go.
No it’s because Russia is preoccupied and we’re testing near peer weapons from 3+decades ago there with little to no risk to mainland usa. It’s morally wrong sure but it does at least make sense.
I mean sorta but not really, we’re selling most stuff at a loss. The benefit is really seeing how well our stuff works against the enemy or was designed to fight. Don’t get me wrong people are getting rich but that’s from buying more weapons to replace the ones we sold.
We want Israel to win and we want Ukraine to be an expensive quagmire for Russia.
It’ll be the reverse.
Extending Russia, Rand Corporation 2019
www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/…/RAND_RR3063.pdf
Im referring to reality, not the intentions of the US
I want Ukraine to win, for Lebanon to be an expensive quagmire for Israel, and for Russia to burn on principle.
Who is “we”?
Its because Putin has nukes.
So does Iran
Afaik they, as a principle, do not have nukes but retain the capability to manufacture them. Probably a good one since having nukes makes them a target of America and not having nukes also makes them a target of America and others. Every soverign state looks at what president nobel peace prize did to Libya as a reminder of what happens to states that denuclearize.
Iran is not threatening the USA in any meaningful way.
On the other hand, USA is constantly invading the middle east, promoting genocide and terrorism, and literally trying to nuke Iran.
I agree. What does that have to do with Iran having nukes? I don’t consider having a deterrent to be an aggressive act on its own and its weird that that’s how you took it
They got lithium? Or oil? Or Jesus Christ! They got jeebus?
It’s oil… as usual.
middleeasteye.net/…/israel-palestine-war-geopolit…
Now why exactly are we doing that?
Gotta secure the pipeline route thru Gaza and then onto the West Bank probz.
The second paragraph of the article provides their explanation.
Yeah, the “explanation” is so dumb and misleading that it’s not worth quoting. Just say that it exists. That’s good enough for the imperial core.
So, a couple weeks ago Biden was “feeling comfortable” with a ceasefire, but now it seems that he’s comfortable with escalating it by sending american troops. Very cool!
Oh come on, the header is a clickbait. There is a US military base in Israel already, it’s been there for years. The article is about an announcement that they are sending another missile defense battery with personnel alongside
There are 100 more US soldiers deployed, aren’t there? I’m not a US citizen, but I still wonder why more troops are needed to help Israel in an war of aggression that violates international law.
Lol,maybe because Hezbollah rockets are getting launched and we’d like to shoot them down before US personnel are killed potentially escalating this even further?
Gtfo. If you need to play wargames maybe send some more support to Ukraine instead.
Yeah, USA would rather participate in a genocide in palestine than prevent one in ukraine.
Maybe we should get the US personnel out instead of sending more, then.
You’re both right. We want to protect our servicemen there from Hezzbollah rockets and they shouldn’t be there in the first place.
I’ve got an idea to prevent this from escelating further: Depose Netan-fucking-Yahu.
The UN and the US Citizens would praise it if anything. China and Russia would say shit about it but they also say shit about us doing nothing. We can literally only gain from destroying the Israel current administration.
Absolutely. However, there is no need to destroy anyone. It would be enough for the US to give up its unconditional support for the Netanyahu regime. Then Netanyahu would be voted out and would go to prison for corruption in his own country.
Ok but that does nothing to stop genocide, land theft, terrorism, invasions, etc.
It’s a joke to pretend like yahoo is the root problem.
I’m just trying to suggest a somewhat reasonable solution. I don’t think Israel could afford to keep this inhumane war going if they didn’t have the support of the US. Let us also not forget that it was radical right-wing Zionists who assassinated Yitzchak Rabin, the Israeli politician who first credibly promised peace in the region. What I want to say is this: Violence and hatred cannot be a solution - this only leads to more violence and more hatred, more misery and more suffering.
Who is “we”?
Maybe I’d have some sympathy for you if y’all stop with the genocide, terrorism, ethnic cleansing, land theft, invasions, etc.
Let the rockets rain down and stop this madness before the fascist state of Israel kills us all.
Do Americans really believe they’ll be able to get their pet monster under control once they genocide the entire Middle East?
“Greater Israel” is just going to keep expanding unless they’re stopped now. Do you think Nazi Germany would just say “ok we have enough land for the master race / chosen people let’s stop now”.
Do you really think America will have any power once it gets to that point?
The world let Zionists get away with the Nakba at the time because of the Holocaust, but now the Zionists and the United States are the ones doing a Holocaust.
Israel is a failure of humanity and an affront to Jewish people everywhere, hijacking the religion in order to build a white supremacist, genocidal, settler-colonial apartheid ethnostate with a Star of David slapped on it.
Israel must now be dismantled, land back to the Palestinians, the architects of this Holocaust brought to justice, and the people deprogrammed out of their genocidal cult.
I don’t think any Americans who truly support this think further than the next quarter of Raytheon profits.
Its clear they don’t care about american lives. Civilian ones that is.
So we’re sending more personal instead of getting them out of the situation? Gymnastics.
Yes it’s an anti-missle battery and a crew of 100 to operate it. Presumably this includes 7-day around the clock shift coverage so it sounds like a reasonable number for a large missle array.
Oh thank you
Nothing to see here, y’all! \s
It’s only a huge deal if we talk about doing the same for actual allies like Ukraine instead of Netanyahu’s rogue regime
I’d like to refer you to my reply to a similar comment: slrpnk.net/post/14228501/11555288
Yeah, I see someone already told you that American soldiers have been there already, long ago this new deployment. But they didn’t bother to prove it to you, and you didn’t believe them.
Well, let me Google it for you. Very quick search reveals this article from 2017:
apnews.com/general-news-2ccf317f293d4be59b92cec55…
Back then it was “dozens of soldiers”, nothing close to thousands another person claimed, though. But I think it’s safe to assume the numbers grew since then.
I’m not disputing this, I’m just asking for clarity so I can understand key facts. Are there soldiers actively serving in Israel? How many? Since when?
That article didn’t actually provide much clarity. I tried searching for more, and found a bit in this article:
theintercept.com/…/secret-military-base-israel-ga…
The main thing this says is that US military presence in Israel is deliberately ambiguous. For instance, the day after the commemoration in the article you shared, US European Command actually denied that this was a us military base, insisting that it was actually a “living facility”.
I don’t doubt that we have troops there. But historically the army doesn’t seem to acknowledge them. So announcing sending people does seem significant.
In an alternative timeline, Biden finally grows a pair, cancels this and other weapon shipments and the election ends with a landslide.
It’s right there Joe, it would be a bigger power move than him stepping down.
In the alternate universe where that could happen, we wouldn’t have gotten anywhere close to the Israel situation, or a string of conservative Democrats in office.
Our best hope is to pull a multiverse switcheroo and swap our Biden (and our Harris) with doppelgangers from the universe where the Democrats are the party of the left.
He needed 2 or 3 years to explore student loans. Maybe this is more complicated, so it will take infinitely longer.
Genocidal cult, meet your daddy.
Biden is trying really hard to lose the election for the democrats.
What blackmail does Netanyahu have on the guy? This is such a bad move.
It’s a numbers game. There are WAY more Jewish people in the US than there are Arabs (~7.5 vs 3.5 million, according to a quick Google search).
Strategically, those Jewish voters are also more likely to switch to a Republican vote than the Arabs, regardless. It would take 2 Arabs (or any other Democratic voter) sitting out to counter a single Democratic voter switching to a Republican vote.
Granted, none of this accounts for voter locations (because only the 7 swing states matter), voter enthusiasm, claims of national security, or (most importantly of all) ethics.
Everything can be justified in this way.
“Adolf Hitler identified he needed to blame all problems on Jews. And systematically put them in concentration camps. This was a political move necessary to advance his career and appeal to voters.”
To be clear, at no point was I trying to justify any actions. My only goal was to explain the strategic path that would lead to it. And of course there are additional nuances, which I alluded to at the end.
Besides, a winning strategy is not an indicator of ethics.
Except a lot of Jewish voters are anti Netanyahu and want a ceasefire too
Not at the expense of democracy, at least I hope. There is no other option this year.
And this will be repeated every election year from here on out now that the DNC knows they can get away with it.
There are other avenues that can be taken in a democracy between now and the next election. Ranked choice voting would be great.
How would a trump win help the genocide happening in Gaza??
Is this the only thing any of you can say?
No remotely sane person is saying trump would be better. That doesn’t mean the DNC isn’t fucking us over a barrel. Sitting around parroting “Hur dur but trump worse” is just enabling them. After trump there will be someone else and the DNC will just keep following the overton window to the right because they just need to keep pointing out that the other guy is worse. Plus all their online enablers will just shut down any discussion by repeating “well you must love trump if you don’t like the DNC stepping on your balls. Yum yum tasty boot.”
Newsflash they will never give us RCV. RCV would take this new powerful tool of “but other guy worse” away from them and they are never going to sacrifice that power.
Ur dumb.
I agree. That was an additional detail that I did not cover, as I wanted to keep it relatively simple. I expect that the anti-Netanyahu Jewish voters are unlikely to switch to voting Trump, given that the latter is firmly and openly pro-genocide.
That’s a good point, but I don’t think it’s about Jewish voters at all. It’s about AIPAC.
And most major U.S. media outlets are highly biased toward Israel for some reason. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen the U.S. media this biased on an issue; I have to resort to small outlets like The Intercept or foreign media like Al Jazeera (which are biased in their own way), to stay informed. The only things comparable I can think of is the Iraq-WMD thing, and their perpetual bias against labor rights/for capital.
AIPAC disagrees with you.
Wait until after the election to see who really stands where.
AIPAC ≠ Jews
AIPAC = Zionists
Its an important distinction.
AIPAC = heavy influence on US politics, including elections.
Edit: replied to wrong person
And if the government were so inclined, they could declare AIPAC a foreign lobby group and stop them the same way they did RT.
It is importance but it’s unclear why you are mentioning it here.
Because they were responding to this comment by saying “AIPAC disagrees with you” implying that Jewish Voters = AIPAC.
Not saying all Jewish voters = AIPAC. Some would, but not all.
I’m sating AIPAC has an oversized influence in US politics.
The only strategy here is AIPAC campaign donations.
All the rest of what you said is BS
What, specifically, did I say that you disagree with?
No one is supporting Israel because they are calculating Jewish population for votes, that’s ridiculous.
They support Israel because of aipac campaign donations. The only calculation is how much money is in their pocket. Nothing else matters, including the ongoing genocide.
People are downvoting you because they don’t like the outcome, not because they disagree with your argument.
Ask Epstein
Good thing Harris was not an associate?
Well, the FBI have a collection of CDs and hard drives with labels like [name] + young [name] so they know about the kompramat.
I highly doubt Harris has a CD though.
It’s either court centrist Zionists or let Trump win. There’s no alternative.
Is anyone really alarmed, this was inevitable.
to stop Netanyahu right… right ??? padme shook face*
Stop him? But he isn’t finished yet…?
Clickbait bullshit. The Department of Defense statement clarifies the US “troops” are just the crew required to operate the air defense battery equipment the US has been supplying to Israel for a while now.
Again, nothing new or different about this. The US is not putting boots on the ground to shoot people up. At least not yet.
No, you’re very mistaken. Let me explain.
In the past, the US has stationed supporting troops off of Israel, in battleships far away. It’s meant to provide support while keeping things calm.
The reason that putting any soldiers IN Israel is significant is that it means that if Iran tries to kill any Israeli soldiers, they can’t do it without risking killing Americans. And if they kill an American, it is understood that we will retaliate and they will be at war with the United States of America.
That’s the point of sending 100 troops to offer “tech support”. It’s to deliberately create conditions that could start a war. If you ask a general, they’ll claim that it’s just shrewd tactics, because letting Iran know all this means that good judgment will prevent them from attacking Israel. But every war in history is preceded by people making those claims (even when they don’t believe them) before going to war.
This is foreplay. This is how you flirt when you’re a NatSec pervert thinking of going to war against someone.
Spot on
We’ve had thousands of troops stationed in the tel-aviv base for decades… This isn’t anything new. That’s why it’s a click bait headline
Do you have more info?
This ain’t the war thunder forums, pal
“Love the troops” as in, “Fuck, I love meat shields.”
A tale as old as time.
And don’t you think that 100 troops deployed in Israel means that the US is actively defending Israel? We’re already past the point of the US enabling Israel aggressions and rabid rogue actions and the large scale genocide. The US will fight the wars started by Israel
Yeah we don’t share our real defense tech with allies, even Israel. THAAD is legit platform we field and this would not let any IDF forces near.
<img alt="“Holden Bloodfeast” meme corrected to change “R (Iowa)” to “Democrat, apparently”" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/2ce2df16-0e27-4910-9726-81df4a845191.jpeg">
This has me very worried. What the heck are they planning that the US would send its troops to operate a THAAD? What are they going to do that would cause that severe of a response from Iranian forces?
Alas, that's technically wrong, because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_of_2001#Efforts_for_repeal
Vance is right about one thing - the 2001 AUMF has got to be repealed.
If you only had scrolled down just a little bit:
sh.itjust.works/comment/14456282
That's funny (but sadly very true). I see it now, it just federated late to my instance.
BTW, why'd you downvote me? I'd have thought from that comment we're actually agreed, but your downvote confused me on your viewpoint..