Why Trump wants Ukraine’s interceptor drones in Iran war (www.politico.eu)
from MicroWave@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 11:43
https://lemmy.world/post/43877308

Ukraine has some of the world’s best expertise on intercepting Iranian drones — and now wants to capitalize on it.

Donald Trump’s attack on Iran reveals that Ukraine does have some cards to play, after all.

The U.S. president lambasted Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy last year in the White House, telling him: “You don’t have the cards right now.” One year on, Ukraine is holding talks with polite American officials in Kyiv keen to get a look-in on Ukraine’s world-leading anti-drone technology.

“Partners are turning to us, to Ukraine, for help,” Zelenskyy said on Wednesday night. “Requests on this matter have also come from the American side.”

Zelenskyy said he was also talking to Arab nations seeking to upgrade defenses against Iran, such as the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Jordan and Bahrain. He was clear that Kyiv was seeking to gain strategic leverage from the talks. ___

#world

threaded - newest

Laser@feddit.org on 05 Mar 11:59 next collapse

WELL WELL WELL

einkorn@feddit.org on 05 Mar 12:14 collapse

How the turn tables!

ramasses@social.ozymandias.club on 05 Mar 12:44 collapse
Bazell@lemmy.zip on 05 Mar 12:11 next collapse

What an epic come back.

ShyFae@piefed.blahaj.zone on 05 Mar 12:16 collapse

Don’t call it a comeback! Been here for years!

blarg_dunsen@sh.itjust.works on 05 Mar 12:31 next collapse

I hope they remember to say “Thank you!”.

a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 16:46 collapse

Was Donald wearing a suit?

HellsBelle@sh.itjust.works on 05 Mar 12:41 next collapse

There’s a reason Ukraine is offering its expertise. The country has been shooting down Russian missiles and drones — especially Iran-designed Shahed drones — for more than four years. In January, Ukraine faced an average of 143 Shahed-type drone and decoys daily, intercepting 122 of them, according to a study by the Institute for Science and International Security.

Ukrainian units haven’t just mastered drone defenses, they’ve reshaped the battlefield with offensive drone tactics — as seen last year during Estonia’s Hedgehog drills, where a 10-person Ukrainian Nemesis drone team outmaneuvered two NATO battalions. As Western and Gulf militaries scramble to adapt to Iran’s expanding drone campaign, Kyiv is signaling it is ready to teach others its battlefield lessons.

Key Ukrainian tactics included attacking NATO troops from the rear (where they thought they were safe), surveying allied formations gathered in large groups (often without proper camouflage), mining the approach roads they were taking, and using electronic warfare to turn off key equipment.

Good for them. I’m somewhat saddened to hear that Zelenskiy is sharing info with tRump, but I get it. Maybe this time the orange dipshit will respect Zelenskiy and Ukraine’s mastery of new tactics.

ThePantser@sh.itjust.works on 05 Mar 13:19 collapse

No, Trump will strong arm him into giving the tech or he will attack Ukraine too. He’s already at war with what 5-6 countries now?

ArgumentativeMonotheist@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 13:59 collapse

Attack Ukraine? I think skipping his monthly check/military support is enough, lol. Ukraine can’t say no to America, they’re entirely dependent on them.

_Nico198X_@piefed.europe.pub on 05 Mar 16:26 next collapse

UA has to buy weapons, they aren’t given. US doesn’t give much of anything, it’s Europe that does.

RamRabbit@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 17:02 next collapse

skipping his monthly check/military support is enough

Ever since Trump has been in power, Trump has not given any weapons to Ukraine. Europe, does however, buy weapons from the US and gives them to Ukraine. There is no ‘monthly check/military support’ for the US to skip, not for the last year.

CouldntCareBear@sh.itjust.works on 05 Mar 18:41 collapse

You’re out of date by 18 months. America doesn’t give Ukraine anything anymore. <img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/1958254c-2782-4f9d-96f2-c55958b4a93d.webp">

kielinstitut.de/…/dd24a73f-4270-46c5-9c40-bcc9df4…

xxce2AAb@feddit.dk on 05 Mar 12:49 next collapse

Then maybe he should fund a drastic expansion of the production of them.

Zier@fedia.io on 05 Mar 13:40 next collapse

Dear Earth, defend Ukraine physically, financially and morally. Get them into the EU & NATO. And maybe you will deserve their help in other matters.

ramble81@lemmy.zip on 05 Mar 14:01 next collapse

“Partners are turning to us…. Requests on this matter have also come from the American side.”

Unless there’s a translation issue, it’s interesting to me that the phrasing very much calls out that the US is not a partner

jaxxed@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 14:59 collapse

More likely, he is trying to not call out the US, as they can be sensitive about needing help.

DragonAce@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 14:12 next collapse

Why the fuck should Zelensky lift a fucking finger for Trump after the fucking circus show they put on during his first official WH visit during Trumps first term?

RamRabbit@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 14:19 next collapse

Zelensky’s goal is to achieve the best outcome for Ukraine and save the country from Russian occupation, not score FU points. If trading interceptors to partners helps Ukraine, Zelensky will do what needs to be done.

DragonAce@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 14:22 collapse

But thats my point, there are no gains to be had making a deal with Trump. The man is notorious for refusing to uphold agreements. So its not about FU point and more about not getting caught up in the US bullshit machine.

FaceDeer@fedia.io on 05 Mar 15:06 collapse

Back in his youth, my dad worked for a steel manufacturing company that sold materials to building contractors. Some of them were extremely shady and had a reputation for not paying what they owed so those ones were charged literally by the truckload and drivers were instructed not to offload a cargo at the construction site until they'd received confirmation that the load had been paid for. Something like that could work with Trump, I suppose.

Kind of amazing that the United States needs to be treated this way, but here we are.

Treczoks@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 15:06 next collapse

Because his goal is saving Ukraine. He does not care about what the US puts him through, as long as it helps his country.

And if they make a deal like “OK, here are the plans, and we get 20% of the drones you build for free as payment”, it would be a win.

bstix@feddit.dk on 05 Mar 18:11 collapse

Money.

Money up front this time.

perestroika@slrpnk.net on 05 Mar 20:07 collapse

Not money, but continued deliveries of antiballistic missiles. Trump’s war is wasting them away at an unbelievable pace, but Ukraine needs them to function and survive.

Chivera@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 14:33 next collapse

Only if Vance says thank you on national news.

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 05 Mar 15:42 next collapse

I understand he's desperate but I'd lose a lot of respect for Zelensky if he went ahead with this. He of all people should know what it's like when murderous imperialists try to force regime change on you.

Lumisal@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 16:55 next collapse

Counterpoint : Iran has been helping Russia and is by extension an enemy of Ukraine, and unlike Americans, his country is literally still fighting off the murderous imperialists of Russia, therefore they still need supplies and equipment for their own battles.

The reason Ukraine has this tech in the first place is because Iran’s help by giving said drones to Russia and having to defend against them.

Currently, there’s a no lose option here for Ukraine. Either they help I’m exchange for supplies and equipment, or they don’t help and still don’t really have to deal with Iran’s drones now at least, and Russia has become further weakened.

Option 3 would be Americans actually do shit and pull a French on the US government so Ukraine doesn’t have to give the tech to the US

RamRabbit@lemmy.world on 05 Mar 16:59 collapse

Trading interceptors helps keep Russian occupation at bay; it’s what he must and will do. Putting aside his personal reservations (about working with someone who hates him) for the betterment of the country he leads, I respect him even more. Zelensky knows he doesn’t need to score FU points, he needs to save his country.

_Nico198X_@piefed.europe.pub on 05 Mar 16:28 next collapse

Z easily the greatest leader of the 21st century.

SalmiakDragon@feddit.nu on 05 Mar 21:17 collapse
perestroika@slrpnk.net on 05 Mar 19:47 collapse

and now wants to capitalize on it.

Ukraine is forced to trade its anti-drone expertise at this time. Explanation below.

Around Iran, during 3 days, the US, Israel and Arab countries have shot off the same amount of Patriot missiles as Ukraine has consumed in 4 years. They are doing something wrong, overconsuming missiles at a crazy pace.

This is unrelated to drones, but the balance of ballistic attack and defense is tilted heavily in favour of attack. If you are over 50% sane, you only defend if you absolutely must. Most of time, you calculate the trajectory, sound the alarm in relevant areas, everyone takes cover - and you absorb the hits. Because defending would bankrupt you. For example, an Iranian “Zolfaghar” ballistic missile costs around 150 K euros, while a Patriot PAC-3 interceptor might cost 4 M euros, and typical defensive tactics involve shooting 2 per target. (It is very fortunate that the Russian Iskander is a precision weapon with midcourse corrections and not comparably cheap.)

Ukraine has a dependency they cannot alleviate. About 75% of Ukraininan antiballistic defense relies on Patriot imports from the US to knock down Iskander, Kinzhal and similar items on certain trajectories (not all trajectories). European production of Aster and South Korean production of KM-SAM is unlikely to have enough volume. Buying from South Korea is doubtful if the US is pulling out Patriot and THAAD deployments for sending to the Middle East (South Korea has North Korea to worry about).

If Ukraine does not apply every political lever to ensure continued supply of Patriot missiles, a time will come when Putin will be given a menu every morning - to decide which Ukrainian power plants must stop working next evening.

This is not something that Ukraine can afford. So they will leverage their antidrone knowledge to get a continued supply of missiles, at least until their own missiles start reaching Russian missile factories. Currently they rarely catch Russian launch vehicles. They have made a good attempt at attacking a factory producing Russian “Iskander” missiles, but only 1 building was hit. They will be fired at, and need a sufficient number of interceptors to stay functioning.

So, they will smile and offer an exchange on some mutually bearable terms. Then they return home and curse - properly. Foremost they will be cursing the utter stupidity of the orange toddler who picked an avoidable battle at the wrong time (or allowed a certain war criminal to drag him into it).