from Keeponstalin@lemmy.world to world@lemmy.world on 21 Oct 16:23
https://lemmy.world/post/21109620
An Israeli settler leader has told a conference on Israel’s frontier with Gaza that Palestinians will “disappear” from the territory and said that thousands of people stand ready to move there “from north to south”.
Addressing a conference on Monday also attended by Israeli Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir and Knesset members from Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, Daniella Weiss called for Palestinians living in Gaza to be relocated to other countries.
“We came here with one clear purpose: the purpose is to settle the entire Gaza Strip, not just part of it, not just a few settlements, the entire Gaza Strip from north to south,” said Weiss.
Weiss, the leader of Nachala, an orthodox settler movement which organised the conference, said there were six settler groups and more than 700 families looking to settle in Gaza, where more than 42,600 Palestinians have been killed since Israel launched its war against Hamas in October last year following the Hamas-led attacks in southern Israel.
Weiss’s comments were echoed by Ben Gvir, who later told the crowd: “We are the owners of the land”. Ben Gvir also called for Palestinians in Gaza to “voluntarily” transfer to other countries.
Monday’s conference, which was billed by organisers as “a celebration for the preparation of settling Gaza”, took place near Reim kibbutz, with the sound of Israel’s ongoing bombardment of northern Gaza audible in the background and with smoke rising over the horizon a few kilometres to the west.
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Are more and more people of orthodox faith turning against the humanitarian values that religion supposedly have?
There have always been some Orthodox Jewish people that have objected to Zionism since it’s inception. I’m not sure if they have grown or not recently, but it’s important to recognize that Zionism is not and doesn’t represent Judaism
Absolutely. And it’s also important to remember that the inhabitants of a group are all individuals with different traits and characteristics. One example could be that there are clearly a lot of batshit crazy republicans, but I’m sure there are republicans who are decent people too. Arnie seems to have mellowed into a pretty ok bloke.
Adi Callai touches on the concept of a counter-identity, one available to anyone who participates in the struggle of resistance. It’s about 10 min into the last section, Lessons from the Resistance, in his latest video The Gaza Ghetto Uprising. All of his videos are really well sourced and presented concisely, highly recommended.
While Anti-zionists may be a small minority in Israel right now, it can certainly still grow. I think the idea about how anyone who participates in anti-colonialst resistance against the State can belong to that counter-identity is powerful. It can extend to not only Israelis but anyone globally who joins the resistance by whatever means they can. It comes from the works of Basil Al-Araj who drew from the works of Franz Fanon.
Yes, we shouldn’t blame all Jews, but I’m a little confused, isn’t the concept of a promise land pretty central to Judaism?
I don’t really like any religion but I think there is a religious “justification” here.
I guess my question is, how is Zionism different than the concept of the promise land?
Ilan Pappe discusses the difference well. There were/are a few reasons, one being:
Chapter 2 and 3 tackle your question pretty comprehensively
Quotes
> More serious analysis came from biblical scholars who were not influenced by Zionism, such as Keith Whitelam, Thomas Thompson, and the Israeli scholar, Israel Finkelstein, all of whom reject the Bible as a factual account of any significance. Whitelam and Thompson also doubt the existence of anything like a nation in biblical times and, like others, criticize what they call the “invention of modern Israel” as the work of pro-Zionist Christian theologians. > In the particular case of the claims of nineteenth-century Zionism, it is not the historical accuracy of those claims that matters. What matters is not whether the present Jews in Israel are the authentic descendants of those who lived in the Roman era, but rather the state of Israel’s insistence that it represents all the Jews in the world and that everything it does is for their sake and on their behalf. Until 1967, this claim was very helpful for the state of Israel. > The third critique on Zionism in its early days came from the ultra-Orthodox Jewish establishment. To this day, many ultra-Orthodox Jewish communities vehemently oppose Zionism, although they are much smaller than they were in the late nineteenth century and some of them moved to Israel and are now part of its political system. Nonetheless, as in the past, they constitute yet another non-Zionist way of being Jewish. When Zionism made its first appearance in Europe, many traditional rabbis in fact forbade their followers from having anything to do with Zionist activists. They viewed Zionism as meddling with God’s will to retain the Jews in exile until the coming of the Messiah. They totally rejected the idea that Jews should do all they can to end the “Exile.” Instead, they had to wait for God’s word on this and in the meantime practice the traditional way of life. While individuals were allowed to visit and study in Palestine as pilgrims, this was not to be interpreted as permission for a mass movement. The great Hasidic German Rabbi of Dzikover summed up this approach bitterly when he said that Zionism asks him to replace centuries of Jewish wisdom and law for a rag, soil, and a song (i.e. a flag, a land, and an anthem)
Well this is a fantastic explanation, thank you!
you have been duped
I had a hunch 😉
This woman is evil. I’d like to “resettle” her to prison.
You’re much kinder than I.
Yeah, how about hell.
I think she should be settled into a hole in the ground.
Once again, all of these colonizers need to be sent back to their countries of origin and the state of Israel dismantled. They are geonicidal colonialist and there isn’t an innocent among them.
Ironically I think that ship has sailed
Jesus Christ
Was a Palestinian Jew and would probably be persecuted, tortured and killed by the modern state of Israel.
Sadly, this tracks
The Jews in Jerusalem sent him to be crucified, so maybe not all that much has changed.
I’m very much opposed to the zionist colonial project in it’s entirety.
However, what you are espousing here is blatant anti-semitism.
I mean, I’m neither a biblical scholar nor someone who holds a group of people accountable today for actions melenia ago, but isn’t he correct? Could you explain what’s wrong with the statement?
The Implication in that sentence is that the jewish people were firstly responsible for the death of christ, and also that this refers to some underlying nefarious murderous aspect to jewish people that the commenter is suggesting persists to the modern day. How else would you read this comment in the context of this conversation? What else could be intended by “so maybe not all that much has changed.”
I am speaking only about extremists like Zionists. I imply nothing.
Interesting then that you chose to link modern zionism with jews in ancient Jerusalem. Also interesting is your omission of the term zionist. No, your comment states a continuity from ancient jews to modern ones in the context of the ancient ones having murdered christ. That’s anti-semitism. Whether you will openly agree or not isn’t particularly relevant.
I omitted the term “Zionist” because I doubt that is an accurate term for the Jewish extremists in the first century.
Why did you say “jews” and not “jewish extremists” like… what are you even talking about… Who are the jewish extremists youre even talking about in the first century lmao and what do present day zionists have to do with jewish extremists from the first century besides them both being jewish??
You clearly haven’t even thought for 2 seconds about what it is that you said. Maybe you ought to when making claims about jewish people. I despise zionism, just as I despise the IDF and the state of Israel. I would never make an allusion to some connection between modern zionists and ancient jewish people. You said jews and you meant it. Get out of the anti-zionist movement for god sake.
Also “the Jews killed Jesus” is a classic antisemitic trope.
what a load of crap.
I guess calling ancient Jewish people murderers and then saying, “maybe nothing has changed” is totally cool to you or something?
It’s also a Bible story, so probably not even true in the first place.
And in my next trick I’ll teleport Palestinians to their early grave
Relocated to where? Israel? What she means is to kill them all, right?
Remember in the Bible how Jews had no home for the entirety of history and then they went to Canaan and threw the Canaanites out?
That.
Seems like she doesn’t care if they are killed or not. They just can’t occupy Gaza.
Presumably they don’t especially care, as long as they’re able to take their land
But I expect a lot of the refugees will go to Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Turkiye, probably a handful to Egypt but from what I’ve heard the Egyptian border is pretty much closed
None of those countries want to take refugees tho
This is their plan. They’re doing it right now. I can’t imagine how folks will deny this, I guess they’ll move onto justify.
Gross
I hope this cunt and all her friends are dragged through Nuremberg 2.0. “Never again”, right guys?
Nononono…“never again” means "never again for Jews". Other genocides are a-okay.
Sounds like bog standard language of ethnic cleansing to me. Still amazed how many people refuse to call a Nazi a Nazi.
This needs to be marked as another case in point for all the people who want to argue it’s not a genocide.
This is the opinions of one person.
If that makes this genocide then Palestine are committing genocide to a much much greater degree.
this is the opinion of the overhwelming majority of Israelis. “90% of Jewish Israelis supported the decision to start the offensive against Hezbollah even while the war was continuing in Gaza.” timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-is-riding-success-vs-…
Only 19% of Israelis think the IDF has gone too far in Gaza pewresearch.org/…/israeli-views-of-the-israel-ham…
90% of people support the decision to attack a foreign hostile enemy that is launching thousands of rockets into Israel.
Shock.
Hamas still exists so obviously they haven’t finished yet.
Israel haa no plans to stop committing Genocide
They do. The death or at the very least the displacement of every single Palestinian in Gaza and the West bank will be the end of their Genocide. Unless someone intervene.
They will most likely continue, why stop there?
Nah they are particularly rabid now and want Iran Syria and lebanon
Just like when Hitler stopped at Austria, right?
Daniella Weiss is not just any “one person” just line Steve Banon is not just any “one person”. She has the ear of the government and significant political pull with the settlers and the settler parties.
I think you’re lost. reddit.com/r/worldnews is that way ->
hey look… we found the zionist
I agree, one person’s opinion doesn’t make it a fact. But the shrinking of Palestines borders over time tell a clear story. This is a genocide
I wonder if any of this will at all backfire for Israel in the near future, especially considering they have the complete backing of the USA.
Serbia’s genocide backfired when the Bosnians suddenly started covertly receiving ATGMs via Pakistan which changed the tide of the war.
I just don’t see that happening here when Gaza doesn’t even have a friendly/neutral neighbor to the south, let alone a country willing to actually help. Egypt doesn’t even want to take refugees. Seems like Israel is just gonna steamroll ahead and we won’t even learn the full extent of the genocide for several decades :/
Things will change in smaller ways after the presidential election, when polititions have less to fear from aipac.
Longer term, as muslims from the region who live in the states have a more powerful voting block, the USs stance to Israel will also begin to change.
This is, and has always been, a generational paced thing.
The same way jews disappeared from Warsaw.
Still can’t be called a genocide, huh?
I never really understood what these “Settlers” are exactly doing. Do they just go to a House and be like “Yeah that’s mine now, GTFO!” or are they building Homes on somebody else’s Property? Or are they tearing down houses and building new ones for themselves? I never really understood how you can settle in an already developed place. Or all of the above?
I think most Israeli settlements were built in previously undeveloped places.
Previously undeveloped places that did not belong to Israel.
Forgot an important part there.
My comment was in no way a defense of Israeli settlement activity, which I find indefensible and the main obstacle to peace in the region. But to my understanding it is still factually correct that the land the settlements were built on didn’t (at least for the most part) have any residents immediately before they were built.
That’s like if some randos came to your area, built houses on the farmland around the town you live in, and then put up a wall preventing in your town from coming or going. It’s a slow seige.
When you have the Israeli military supporting you, you can do a lot of things.
First they blow up the place, flatten it, and then build their vacation homes on top of the people they killed.
They settle right next to existing Palestinian towns. Then surround them by expanding. Create better infrastructure. Then exclude the Palestinians and ensure they are treat as other or not equal.
That’s the very best of situations. Ignoring that a majority are armed takeovers of occupied buildings.
I find it helps if you just call them “invaders”.
I think you could only call yourself a settler if you went somewhere uninhabitable and made it livable. Antarctica maybe. I don’t think “arable farmland right next door with brown people living on it” counts for much.
From B’TSelem, an Israeli Human Rights Organization that has covered this since the 1960’s:
Quotes
> The state allows settlers to use land violently taken from Palestinians. Dozens of outposts and “farms” – settlements for all intents and purposes, which were built without authorization by the government and without plans that enable construction in them – receive support from Israeli authorities and remain standing. Israel has ordered the military to defend the outposts or paid for their security, as well as paved roads and laid down water and electricity infrastructure for most of them. It has provided support through various government ministries, the Settlement Division of the World Zionist Organization and regional councils in the West Bank. It has also subsidized financial endeavors in the outposts, including agricultural facilities, provided support for new farmers and for shepherding, allocated water and legally defended outposts in petitions for their removal. > The violent acts include beating, throwing stones, issuing threats, torching fields, destroying trees and crops, stealing crops, damaging homes and cars, blocking roads, using live fire, and, in rare cases, killing. Settlers from so-called farms violently chase Palestinian farmers and shepherds away from their fields, and from pastureland and water sources they have used for generations. They initiate violent altercations on a daily basis and use drones to scare flocks belonging to Palestinians into scattering.
www.btselem.org/settler_violence
That’s the plan. Look at the borders of Palestine over time. What Israel does speaks louder than what they say they are doing