TheDeepState@lemmy.world
on 06 Jun 2024 22:32
nextcollapse
Why does Biden support genocide?
random_character_a@lemmy.world
on 06 Jun 2024 23:24
nextcollapse
Because certain closely knit ethnicity has significant power and wealth in US economy, so neither Republicans or Democrats want to fuck with that setup?
TheDeepState@lemmy.world
on 06 Jun 2024 23:36
nextcollapse
Black people?
sirboozebum@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 00:24
collapse
I wouldn’t say ethnic group.
To be more specific, the lobby group, AIPAC, has immense political power.
TallonMetroid@lemmy.world
on 06 Jun 2024 23:37
nextcollapse
Because he’s a self-proclaimed Zionist and the end goal of Zionism has always been genocide. Now, why is he a Zionist? shrugs
WamGams@lemmy.ca
on 07 Jun 2024 01:20
nextcollapse
The end goal of a Jewish homeland has always been genocide of Arabs?
I suspect that isn’t true but am willing to read whatever you are basing this claim off of.
Well, when you want to establish your homeland somewhere that people are already living, yeah it takes displacement. But they’re not just displacing them, they’re killing them.
WamGams@lemmy.ca
on 07 Jun 2024 04:27
nextcollapse
Where else were the survivors of the holocaust credibly being offered the establishment of their own government beside their actual homeland?
SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jun 2024 15:19
nextcollapse
If being a victim of the Holocaust entitles you to your own government, how comes you’ve never argued for establishing a homeland of the Romani people?
What are you suggesting should have been done with the Jewish survivors if returning to their homeland itself is unacceptable to you?
SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jun 2024 16:32
collapse
For a person born in Germany, raised in Germany, taught to speak, read and write German, their homeland is Germany. German Jewish victims of the Holocaust ought to have been extraordinarily repaired, and given the pleasure of seeing their victimizers fallen in disgrace, tried, condemned and punished (part of which did happen), not told to pack their bags and leave to a country they’ve never set a foot in. The idea that someone who’s born in a specific ethnic group has their “homeland” at some special, historical place is an extremely ideological view that has much more to do with nazism than with the ideals of freedom and human rights.
By the way, you haven’t answered my question. In your racist worldview that ethnicities belong to specific strips of land, where do the Romani belong?
Well, Germany was split in two after the war, and most Jews who survived the holocaust weren’t German Jews, so if we were to send all of European Jews to West Germany, you are still having to deal woth the displacement aspect that you are currently using to build a case for genocide.
I’m also going to set aside your childish accusations of racism, because it isn’t true. You willingly chose to enter a discussion, the bare minimum is mutual respect and if you can’t accomplish that, there will be no discussion going forward. As for the Romani people, the Romania’s homeland wasn’t still under British rule, and thus couldn’t offer to have them go back India. I’m not even sure the Romani people wanted to return to India. Is that something they were pushing for or are you just making a hypothetical?
SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jun 2024 17:33
collapse
Can you connect two and two? I used German Jews as an example, didn’t say that Polish Jews or Russian Jews or French Jews should have been taken to Germany. Also you can migrate to a country, rather than occupy it and have the population that already lived there displaced, as the colonizers who founded the State of Israel did with Palestinians. I genuinely cannot believe you wrote this:
you are still having to deal woth the displacement aspect that you are currently using to build a case for genocide.
In good faith.
I’m also going to set aside your childish accusations of racism, because it isn’t true.
It is, you just don’t understand it yet. A Romani born in Spain who wants to live in Spain has one homeland: Spain. As of today, they have nothing in common with India, nor did they 50, 100, 150 or 400 years ago - much like Ashkenazi Jews didn’t have anything to do with Palestine in 1750. We just have the good sense to practice policies that allow for the healthiest pluralist society possible that respects both Romani and non-Romani, unlike 1940s dumbfuck Brits who thought that a sensible solution for Jews was to invite them to get the fuck out of Europe in a colonial project. Would you tell Italians living in the USA to leave to Italy during the time of the Italian mafias? Would you tell Arabs to go to the Middle East after the 9-11? If you don’t think telling an immigrant ethnicity to leave after or during a tumultuous period where they have or might be the target of hate is usually a good idea, dogmatically changing that principle to argue that it was sensible to ethnically cleanse Palestinians after WWII is indeed a racist bias. But I have faith you will eventually outgrow it, after one month or fifty.
Ethnic nationalism is just racism, whether practiced by white supremacist MAGA Americans or Holocaust survivors. In a liberal democracy, the government serves all people regardless of race. I’m confused by your premise that Holocaust survivors were entitled to their own ethnic state for some reason.
Also, the Zionist movement was not a response to the Holocaust. It was a colonial enterprise that began well before the Holocaust in response to widespread persecution especially in Central Europe. Many Jews opposed the Jewish nationalism undergirding Zionism for the same reasons liberals today reject virtually all nationalist movements. Many emigrated to liberal democracies like the United States where they could live free of ethnic discrimination. Zionists instead chose to respond with their own ethnic persecution.
It is worth recalling in this connection that at the turn of the century,
Zionism’s similarities to other projects of colonization were not a source of
embarrassment or shame for most of the movement’s adherents; indeed, they
often saw them as a selling point. Zionist leaders studied and sought to learn
from the experience of European colonial-settlement enterprises in places like
Algeria, Rhodesia, and Kenya, and many imagined their own endeavor as
similar in certain ways. Moreover, the Zionist movement readily used such
terms as “colony,” “colonial,” and “colonization” to refer to its activities; thus,
for example, the original name of its financial arm was the Jewish Colonial
Trust. It was only later, after the First World War, that colonialism came to
have strongly pejorative connotations for many Europeans. As a consequence
the Zionist movement sought to dissociate itself from other European projects
of colonization and settlement, began to stress the uniqueness and noncolonial
character of its mission and methods, and stopped using such terms, at least
in languages other than Hebrew.
Zachary Lockman, Comrades and Enemies: Arab and Jewish Workers in
Palestine, 1906-1948 (University of California Press, 1996) 21-57.
You’re not going to get far using a definition of Zionism that practically vanished after WII and the founding of Israel, least of all in the current climate. Simply not the opportune moment.
Also already back then there were Zionists who saw it as an explicitly settler-colonial project.
anticolonialist@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 05:22
nextcollapse
Also notice that he taken more money since the start of the Gaza slaughter
kaffiene@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 06:21
collapse
Zionism doesn’t imply Genocide
PumpkinSkink@lemmy.world
on 08 Jun 2024 21:33
collapse
The fact is, however, that they impinge— as they always have— on the Arab residents of the territories, and then they have a distinct cutting edge to them. Both in theory and in practice their effectiveness lies in how they Judaize territory coterminously with de-Arabizing it.
There is privileged evidence of this fact, I think, in what Joseph Weitz had to say. From 1932 on, Weitz was the director of the Jewish National Land Fund; in 1965 his diaries and papers, My Diary, and Letters to the Children, were published in Israel. On December 19, 1940, he wrote:
_“. . . after the Second World War the question of the land of Israel and the question of the Jews would be raised beyond the framework of “ development”; amongst ourselves. !t must be clear that there is no room for hoth peoples in this country. No ‘development’ will bring us closer to our aim. To be an independent people in this small country. If the Arabs leave the country, it will be broad and wide-open for us. And if the Arabs stay, the country will remain narrow and miserable.
When the War is over and the English have won, and when the judges sit on the throne of Law, our people must bring theirpetitions and their claim before them; and the only solution is Eretz Israel, or at least Western Eretz Israel, without Arabs. There is no room for compromise on this point! The Zionist enterprise so far, in terms of preparing the ground and paving the way for the creation of the Hebrew State in the land of Israel, has been fine and good in its own time, and could do with ‘‘land-buying ’— but this will not bring about the State of Israel; that must come all at once, in the manner of a Salvation (this is the secret of the Messianic idea); and there is no way besides transferring the Arabs from here to the neighboring countries, to transfer them all: except maybe for Bethlehem, Nazareth and Old Jerusalem, we must not leave a singlevillage, not a single tribe. And the transfer must be directed to Iraq, to Syria, and even to Transjordan. For that purpose we’ll find money, and a lot of money. And only with such a transfer will the country be able to absorb millions of our brothers, and the Jewish question shall be solved, once and for all. There is no other way out."_
These are not only prophetic remarks about what was going to happen; they are also policy statements, in which Weitz spoke with the voice of the Zionist consensus. There were literally hundreds of such statements made by Zionists, beginning with Herzl. and when ‘salvation’ came it was with those ideas in mind that the conquest of Palestine, and the eviction of its Arabs, was carried out.
~The Question of Palestine, Edward Said
There’s literally dozens of other quotes like this one from people instrumental in the founding of Israel in this chapter, and they are similarly genocidal. It was honestly pretty transparent what they were going for.
kaffiene@lemmy.world
on 08 Jun 2024 21:53
collapse
The existence of Zionists who wish to erase Palestine (of which there are many) does not change the situation.
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jun 2024 03:26
nextcollapse
Because the calculation has been made, he will lose more votes from people who support Israel than people who support Palestine because the first ones don’t mind the alternative which will support Israel even more and the second ones will be in deep shit if Trump gets elected so they have no choice.
TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 04:09
nextcollapse
Are we always going to be prisoners to these types of choices?
That’s what they’re thinking at any rate. Unfortunately in Pennsylvania it doesn’t seem to have been a campaign issue at all for the Pro Palestinian congresswoman and the Arab American demographics in the rust are what got Biden over the line there last time. There’s a serious question as to whether the rust belt is now in play again because of this.
TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 04:05
nextcollapse
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
on 07 Jun 2024 20:27
collapse
The man is from an era long past, when Israel was the USA’s fault and responsibility, and when it’s presence was necessary to defend against other world powers.
anticolonialist@lemmy.world
on 06 Jun 2024 22:53
nextcollapse
He also claimed there’s no genocide
Excrubulent@slrpnk.net
on 07 Jun 2024 01:36
nextcollapse
This is genocide denial plain and simple.
Also remember that whenever anyone tries to tell you that you shouldn’t be bringing up Biden’s genocide support because it might hurt his chances in the US election, they are also doing genocide denial. They are genocide deniers.
They may not be denying that the genocide is happening, they’re just denying that we should talk about it. They’re denying its importance.
And sure, Trump would probably be worse at this, so vote. But if Biden genuinely needs widespread genocide denial to win then that is not only not an acceptable thing to ask of voters, it is also unhinged. People know about the genocide, they know Biden is dragging his feet on the issue and pretending that’s not happening just to protect him makes his case look extremely weak.
If you really think that no amount of denouncement and excoriation will influence him to stop supporting genocide then again, you are saying awful things about him without realising it.
jordanlund@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 02:43
nextcollapse
Israel is not only starving Gazans, they’ve BEEN starving Gazans for DECADES.
kaffiene@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 06:20
nextcollapse
Why did he build the pier for aid?
HuntressHimbo@lemm.ee
on 07 Jun 2024 16:43
nextcollapse
To give the appearance of caring while not actually trying to improve the situation
kaffiene@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 20:09
collapse
Well, true. Pretty much everything he’s done pro Palestine has been 99% performative. But my point was that it’s bizarre to claim that Israel is not starving Palestinians while also building a pier because aid (including food) isn’t getting rhrough
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
on 07 Jun 2024 20:23
nextcollapse
Several of the ships sent have been doing similar operations to the region for over a decade, so it probably wasn’t a difficult move to make.
kaffiene@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 21:34
collapse
My point was that it shows he clearly understands that aid, mainly food, wasn’t getting through. He’s a liar
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
on 07 Jun 2024 21:53
collapse
And mine was that he hasn’t done much in general about the situation. I like the pier and airdrops as concepts but I don’t think they were impactful to the scale of what we could accomplish if we really tried.
kaffiene@lemmy.world
on 08 Jun 2024 01:16
collapse
If he really wanted change he would pressure Israel. The US is the sole reason this situation hasn’t ever resolved
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 20:36
collapse
Maybe he will change the function of the pier to “more efficient delivery of military aid to the israeli stormtroopers in Gaza.” Those tank shells blowing up tents aren’t gonna refill themselves.
kaffiene@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 21:34
collapse
Those get delivered to Israel thou
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
on 08 Jun 2024 12:36
collapse
Conveniently we call weapons for Genocide “Aid packages” too.
Why9@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 14:51
nextcollapse
To all those people who keep saying that in order to not have Trump back in 2025, everyone must suck it up and vote Biden, this is why that just can’t happen.
Sure Trump is bad in many ways but Biden’s insistence on helping Netenyahu no matter what will lose him the election.
I’m not making a case for Trump, btw. Both things can be bad at the same time. For people who are seeing Gazans die for no reason, Biden cannot come back into office again. Does that mean we want Trump? Of course not, and that’s why voting for anyone else makes sense.
If voting for anyone else means you’re voting for Trump, so be it!
SuddenDownpour@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Jun 2024 15:15
nextcollapse
People who get anxious at criticism of Biden should dedicate their energy to pressure the US government to grow some brain cells and stop behaving like lunatics, not at berating everyone who expresses angst at their complicity with genocide.
Democratic governments aren’t some force of nature that will do as they please no matter the consequences. You, as their constituents, can signal to them that their actions may make them lose the next election. If you want young people to vote for Biden, what’s more likely to do the trick, to endlessly argue with the few of them you’ll find on Lemmy, or to have Biden stop ruining his own image for no gain?
Delusional@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 16:23
nextcollapse
Yeah if people are angry at Biden for this shit, they’ll for sure be angry with trump because he wants them all killed too along with a litany of other shit that is clearly bad for America and the rest of the world. Voting for trump because you’re mad at Biden’s actions is like chopping your whole arm off because a finger got infected.
IamAnonymous@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 17:21
nextcollapse
Voting for a third party, especially if you are in a key swing state, is a bad idea. If you are a
registered democrat you’ll have to vote democrat to keep Biden.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 20:41
nextcollapse
Voting third party in a swing state is an amazing idea. It shows that they will lose voters if they ignore their voterbase.
IamAnonymous@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 21:15
nextcollapse
Of course. And that’s how we got Trump elected because people didn’t like Hilary, especially in Michigan and Pennsylvania.
People already showed that they don’t want Biden during the primaries. Biden could lose Michigan without Arab-American support, which is evident based on the primary results, but
he is still actively trying to lose the election.
So, should we vote 3rd party and make Biden lose votes to teach him a lesson or just vote for Biden to keep Trump out? Neither of the 2 options are ideal but that’s what we have right now.
Same applies for a Trump supporter. You don’t want to vote for a Felon and you rather let Biden win?
Our election system is outdated and does not represent the needs or wants of the people. We need to have more than 2 viable candidates as options but 70 year olds won’t change anything so that they be President when they turn 80. Hopefully someday they make some changes to the election system.
It’s good to see you finally being openly honest with your wish to fuck up America.
Heads up: your little group of accelerationists don’t represent the Democratic voter base, by the way. You have already been counted out demographically as they know that every four years there will be people that will buy into conservative propaganda and not vote.
Just like what’s happening here.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
on 08 Jun 2024 10:17
nextcollapse
Voting for Biden now is taking the brakes off a car heading towards a cliff.
The Democrats will never ever change course from becoming an extreme right wing party. Actually it’s too late.
Democrats are on board with Genocide and their immigration policy is at Trump levels. There is nothing to gain anymore with Biden winning.
Do you have trouble reading? I’m serious. Is there some problem you have with understanding what the topic of a statement is?
Because I never said anything similar to thinking about voting for Trump. So you either have a reading comprehension issue, or you’re purposefully trolling. Which is against the rules of this community.
“While originally used by the far left, the term has, in a manner strongly distinguished from original accelerationist theorists, been used by right-wing extremists.”
Unless your boy is a conservative posing as a left wing propagandist, I’m not accusing anyone of being a “terrorist.“
What you’re all doing though, is your very best to ensure this country collapses under Trump. And you’re all insisting everyone not vote for the one person with the chance to keep him from overthrowing America over a single issue you didnt even give a shit about less than a year ago…
A. That’s your opinion. Nobody here has said they want the country to collapse. Accusing them of accelerationism is unfounded at best.
B. Left wing violent accelerationism very much exists in extreme anarchist movements. Not sure why wiki ignored that. But the number of non violent accelerationists is incredibly small. As an ideology it quickly moves people along into violence as the only way to truly move faster.
C. It would be entirely inside their ideology for a conservative accelerationist to depress the vote by any means. They want the democracy gone.
So, again. You do not get to accuse people of being terrorists or political extremists just because they won’t vote for your fearless leader. It’s ridiculous, self serving, and bad faith in a democracy.
Unfortunately fear sells. And people like you are selling it hardcore. God forbid we hold anyone accountable, we might have to face team B being in office if team A doesn’t actually make themselves amenable to their voting base.
Enjoy team B while they’re carpet bombing Palestine into dust. I’d imagine it’ll be horrible to be held accountable for it when that time comes, but we both know you’ll be nowhere to be found.
IamAnonymous@lemmy.world
on 08 Jun 2024 02:49
collapse
Do you think people love their candidates? They are voting for lesser of the 2 evils. If you vote 3rd party if you just wasting your vote, so you could at least try to stop the other from winning. It’s basically what people are doing.
That’s just not true. You do not have to vote with your party, you do not have to vote for every position on the ballot, and you do not have to vote at all if you do not want to.
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
on 07 Jun 2024 20:21
collapse
Not how US Elections work. Only the winner writes the laws, if you want election reform then vote Dem. If you want Trump, don’t vote dem. Those are the only two options, voting third party does nothing to help. The cumulative sum of all EC Votes given to third party candidates in the USA for 47 years is 0, and we’re risking a lot by not firmly establishing DNC leadership as the lesser evil.
No. Biden must be worthy of the office on his own merits. Or else this voting thing is useless. the people cannot hold their officials accountable if they must vote for them. That’s just an oligarchy with extra steps.
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
on 08 Jun 2024 18:23
nextcollapse
No. You have a responsibility to help the people that you can. Doing nothing while a worse person takes office is the same as you advocating for harm, directly.
Trump has the advantage of being a challenger, he can just say shit. Biden needs to be pressured right now, to save people right now. Is that more clear to you?
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
on 09 Jun 2024 00:38
collapse
Pressured by not voting for him in the general election?
How is voting only for people you actually want running the country in any way symbolic? Versus just always voting for a color. This is possibly the most ridiculous thing you’ve said to me in the last few weeks.
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
on 09 Jun 2024 03:46
nextcollapse
Because then you’re voting for an outcome that won’t exist, or even no outcome at all, and meanwhile somebody far worse gets elected instead.
Maggoty@lemmy.world
on 09 Jun 2024 04:05
nextcollapse
No. In no world is not voting for someone somehow a vote. You cannot coerce votes and still call it a democracy. The entire point is freedom to vote for your choice.
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
on 09 Jun 2024 04:16
collapse
Your votes do decide. The primaries selected Joe Biden in 2020, and this general election is going to be 51:49 in Trumps favor based on polls. We have a choice.
You understate how voting works, right? Like… this was taught to you as some point? Because if You don’t, then I can excuse the ignorance. Otherwise, you really should know better.
Not voting won’t cancel an election. Someone is STILL getting elected. So you can either go with “genocide Lite,” or SUPER-MEGA-ULTRA-GYRO GENOCIDE 3000 v2.0.
But you’re getting one or the other regardless. You have the choice to help this country along with those in Palestine from suffering worse.
Oh yes I understand how you think voting works. You go in and pull the lever for whoever the party tells you or you get the stick again. But that’s not a democracy. In a democracy the party bends to the will of the people. Not the people to the party. Or else the Party gets the stick again.
Ahh. I get it. You haven’t yet figured out how things work yet. You’re still at that age where you think that you get what you want by simply asking for it, and when reality doesn’t comply- you throw temper tantrums and threaten to take your ball and go home when the other kids don’t play by your rules.
I think it’s called…. Idealism?
It’s all good. was the same way when I was young. Granted, I grew up and learned how things work before I could partake in anything too stupid- like… socialism.
I’m going to just ignore you now as I feel arguing with you is unfair and pointless.
Real democracy is voting. And I’m not about to be lectured on politics by someone that’s not voting over a single issue they didn’t give two shits about less than a year ago.
I never said I’m not voting. I said I’m not voting for Biden. And being forced to vote for someone still isn’t a democracy, no matter how much make up you put on it.
Trump isn’t the reason for Biden to be elected. That way lies authoritarianism of it’s own kind because it makes it impossible to hold anyone accountable. You might as well let the oligarchy directly tell you who to vote for.
jordanlund@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 19:10
collapse
Trump will be actively worse than Biden because he would bring the worst Israeli policies HERE.
Illegal invasion of Lebanon? Yeah, Trump wants that for Mexico.
So, yeah, that’s what you’re voting for if you don’t vote Biden.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world
on 07 Jun 2024 20:51
nextcollapse
Id trust the people on the streets there before any out of touch government second guesser
WindyRebel@lemmy.world
on 08 Jun 2024 10:32
collapse
Yeah, but in typical c-suite fashion they (e.g., Biden in this case) listen but don’t hear or care what the people who are actually in the shit of it all think/say because agendas.
PumpkinSkink@lemmy.world
on 08 Jun 2024 20:58
collapse
Says the guy who literally built a fucking pier to delivery food because Israel won’t let trucks go through on the road.
threaded - newest
Why does Biden support genocide?
Because certain closely knit ethnicity has significant power and wealth in US economy, so neither Republicans or Democrats want to fuck with that setup?
Black people?
I wouldn’t say ethnic group.
To be more specific, the lobby group, AIPAC, has immense political power.
Because he’s a self-proclaimed Zionist and the end goal of Zionism has always been genocide. Now, why is he a Zionist? shrugs
The end goal of a Jewish homeland has always been genocide of Arabs?
I suspect that isn’t true but am willing to read whatever you are basing this claim off of.
Well, when you want to establish your homeland somewhere that people are already living, yeah it takes displacement. But they’re not just displacing them, they’re killing them.
Where else were the survivors of the holocaust credibly being offered the establishment of their own government beside their actual homeland?
Dingdingding and there we have it, antisemitism by calling all Jews zionist.
What?
If being a victim of the Holocaust entitles you to your own government, how comes you’ve never argued for establishing a homeland of the Romani people?
What are you suggesting should have been done with the Jewish survivors if returning to their homeland itself is unacceptable to you?
For a person born in Germany, raised in Germany, taught to speak, read and write German, their homeland is Germany. German Jewish victims of the Holocaust ought to have been extraordinarily repaired, and given the pleasure of seeing their victimizers fallen in disgrace, tried, condemned and punished (part of which did happen), not told to pack their bags and leave to a country they’ve never set a foot in. The idea that someone who’s born in a specific ethnic group has their “homeland” at some special, historical place is an extremely ideological view that has much more to do with nazism than with the ideals of freedom and human rights.
By the way, you haven’t answered my question. In your racist worldview that ethnicities belong to specific strips of land, where do the Romani belong?
Well, Germany was split in two after the war, and most Jews who survived the holocaust weren’t German Jews, so if we were to send all of European Jews to West Germany, you are still having to deal woth the displacement aspect that you are currently using to build a case for genocide.
I’m also going to set aside your childish accusations of racism, because it isn’t true. You willingly chose to enter a discussion, the bare minimum is mutual respect and if you can’t accomplish that, there will be no discussion going forward. As for the Romani people, the Romania’s homeland wasn’t still under British rule, and thus couldn’t offer to have them go back India. I’m not even sure the Romani people wanted to return to India. Is that something they were pushing for or are you just making a hypothetical?
Can you connect two and two? I used German Jews as an example, didn’t say that Polish Jews or Russian Jews or French Jews should have been taken to Germany. Also you can migrate to a country, rather than occupy it and have the population that already lived there displaced, as the colonizers who founded the State of Israel did with Palestinians. I genuinely cannot believe you wrote this:
In good faith.
It is, you just don’t understand it yet. A Romani born in Spain who wants to live in Spain has one homeland: Spain. As of today, they have nothing in common with India, nor did they 50, 100, 150 or 400 years ago - much like Ashkenazi Jews didn’t have anything to do with Palestine in 1750. We just have the good sense to practice policies that allow for the healthiest pluralist society possible that respects both Romani and non-Romani, unlike 1940s dumbfuck Brits who thought that a sensible solution for Jews was to invite them to get the fuck out of Europe in a colonial project. Would you tell Italians living in the USA to leave to Italy during the time of the Italian mafias? Would you tell Arabs to go to the Middle East after the 9-11? If you don’t think telling an immigrant ethnicity to leave after or during a tumultuous period where they have or might be the target of hate is usually a good idea, dogmatically changing that principle to argue that it was sensible to ethnically cleanse Palestinians after WWII is indeed a racist bias. But I have faith you will eventually outgrow it, after one month or fifty.
…so you would be against the Native Americans of the US and Canada being given their homeland back?
Ethnic nationalism is just racism, whether practiced by white supremacist MAGA Americans or Holocaust survivors. In a liberal democracy, the government serves all people regardless of race. I’m confused by your premise that Holocaust survivors were entitled to their own ethnic state for some reason.
Also, the Zionist movement was not a response to the Holocaust. It was a colonial enterprise that began well before the Holocaust in response to widespread persecution especially in Central Europe. Many Jews opposed the Jewish nationalism undergirding Zionism for the same reasons liberals today reject virtually all nationalist movements. Many emigrated to liberal democracies like the United States where they could live free of ethnic discrimination. Zionists instead chose to respond with their own ethnic persecution.
Zachary Lockman, Comrades and Enemies: Arab and Jewish Workers in Palestine, 1906-1948 (University of California Press, 1996) 21-57.
Why did you respond to a question yet refuse to answer the question?
www.google.com/search?q=define+zionism
Trusting Google results? In the days of the LLM takeover? Nah
You don’t trust the Google result for defining a word? Really? You think this is an LLM mediated result? Really?
You’re not going to get far using a definition of Zionism that practically vanished after WII and the founding of Israel, least of all in the current climate. Simply not the opportune moment.
Also already back then there were Zionists who saw it as an explicitly settler-colonial project.
The world may never know
Also notice that he taken more money since the start of the Gaza slaughter
Zionism doesn’t imply Genocide
The fact is, however, that they impinge— as they always have— on the Arab residents of the territories, and then they have a distinct cutting edge to them. Both in theory and in practice their effectiveness lies in how they Judaize territory coterminously with de-Arabizing it. There is privileged evidence of this fact, I think, in what Joseph Weitz had to say. From 1932 on, Weitz was the director of the Jewish National Land Fund; in 1965 his diaries and papers, My Diary, and Letters to the Children, were published in Israel. On December 19, 1940, he wrote:
_“. . . after the Second World War the question of the land of Israel and the question of the Jews would be raised beyond the framework of “ development”; amongst ourselves. !t must be clear that there is no room for hoth peoples in this country. No ‘development’ will bring us closer to our aim. To be an independent people in this small country. If the Arabs leave the country, it will be broad and wide-open for us. And if the Arabs stay, the country will remain narrow and miserable.
These are not only prophetic remarks about what was going to happen; they are also policy statements, in which Weitz spoke with the voice of the Zionist consensus. There were literally hundreds of such statements made by Zionists, beginning with Herzl. and when ‘salvation’ came it was with those ideas in mind that the conquest of Palestine, and the eviction of its Arabs, was carried out.
~The Question of Palestine, Edward Said
There’s literally dozens of other quotes like this one from people instrumental in the founding of Israel in this chapter, and they are similarly genocidal. It was honestly pretty transparent what they were going for.
The existence of Zionists who wish to erase Palestine (of which there are many) does not change the situation.
Because the calculation has been made, he will lose more votes from people who support Israel than people who support Palestine because the first ones don’t mind the alternative which will support Israel even more and the second ones will be in deep shit if Trump gets elected so they have no choice.
Are we always going to be prisoners to these types of choices?
No, you could also elect a dictator like China or Russia did.
That’s what they’re thinking at any rate. Unfortunately in Pennsylvania it doesn’t seem to have been a campaign issue at all for the Pro Palestinian congresswoman and the Arab American demographics in the rust are what got Biden over the line there last time. There’s a serious question as to whether the rust belt is now in play again because of this.
There’s almost 6 million reasons why.
The man is from an era long past, when Israel was the USA’s fault and responsibility, and when it’s presence was necessary to defend against other world powers.
He also claimed there’s no genocide
This is genocide denial plain and simple.
Also remember that whenever anyone tries to tell you that you shouldn’t be bringing up Biden’s genocide support because it might hurt his chances in the US election, they are also doing genocide denial. They are genocide deniers.
They may not be denying that the genocide is happening, they’re just denying that we should talk about it. They’re denying its importance.
And sure, Trump would probably be worse at this, so vote. But if Biden genuinely needs widespread genocide denial to win then that is not only not an acceptable thing to ask of voters, it is also unhinged. People know about the genocide, they know Biden is dragging his feet on the issue and pretending that’s not happening just to protect him makes his case look extremely weak.
If you really think that no amount of denouncement and excoriation will influence him to stop supporting genocide then again, you are saying awful things about him without realising it.
Israel is not only starving Gazans, they’ve BEEN starving Gazans for DECADES.
That’s been the whole point of the blockade.
en.m.wikipedia.org/…/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
Why did he build the pier for aid?
To give the appearance of caring while not actually trying to improve the situation
Well, true. Pretty much everything he’s done pro Palestine has been 99% performative. But my point was that it’s bizarre to claim that Israel is not starving Palestinians while also building a pier because aid (including food) isn’t getting rhrough
Several of the ships sent have been doing similar operations to the region for over a decade, so it probably wasn’t a difficult move to make.
My point was that it shows he clearly understands that aid, mainly food, wasn’t getting through. He’s a liar
And mine was that he hasn’t done much in general about the situation. I like the pier and airdrops as concepts but I don’t think they were impactful to the scale of what we could accomplish if we really tried.
If he really wanted change he would pressure Israel. The US is the sole reason this situation hasn’t ever resolved
Maybe he will change the function of the pier to “more efficient delivery of military aid to the israeli stormtroopers in Gaza.” Those tank shells blowing up tents aren’t gonna refill themselves.
Those get delivered to Israel thou
Conveniently we call weapons for Genocide “Aid packages” too.
To all those people who keep saying that in order to not have Trump back in 2025, everyone must suck it up and vote Biden, this is why that just can’t happen.
Sure Trump is bad in many ways but Biden’s insistence on helping Netenyahu no matter what will lose him the election.
I’m not making a case for Trump, btw. Both things can be bad at the same time. For people who are seeing Gazans die for no reason, Biden cannot come back into office again. Does that mean we want Trump? Of course not, and that’s why voting for anyone else makes sense.
If voting for anyone else means you’re voting for Trump, so be it!
People who get anxious at criticism of Biden should dedicate their energy to pressure the US government to grow some brain cells and stop behaving like lunatics, not at berating everyone who expresses angst at their complicity with genocide.
Democratic governments aren’t some force of nature that will do as they please no matter the consequences. You, as their constituents, can signal to them that their actions may make them lose the next election. If you want young people to vote for Biden, what’s more likely to do the trick, to endlessly argue with the few of them you’ll find on Lemmy, or to have Biden stop ruining his own image for no gain?
Yeah if people are angry at Biden for this shit, they’ll for sure be angry with trump because he wants them all killed too along with a litany of other shit that is clearly bad for America and the rest of the world. Voting for trump because you’re mad at Biden’s actions is like chopping your whole arm off because a finger got infected.
Voting for a third party, especially if you are in a key swing state, is a bad idea. If you are a registered democrat you’ll have to vote democrat to keep Biden.
Voting third party in a swing state is an amazing idea. It shows that they will lose voters if they ignore their voterbase.
Of course. And that’s how we got Trump elected because people didn’t like Hilary, especially in Michigan and Pennsylvania.
People already showed that they don’t want Biden during the primaries. Biden could lose Michigan without Arab-American support, which is evident based on the primary results, but he is still actively trying to lose the election.
So, should we vote 3rd party and make Biden lose votes to teach him a lesson or just vote for Biden to keep Trump out? Neither of the 2 options are ideal but that’s what we have right now.
Same applies for a Trump supporter. You don’t want to vote for a Felon and you rather let Biden win?
Our election system is outdated and does not represent the needs or wants of the people. We need to have more than 2 viable candidates as options but 70 year olds won’t change anything so that they be President when they turn 80. Hopefully someday they make some changes to the election system.
Yeah, they love their power. Pretty evident when they serve until they die and stop younger people from getting an opportunity.
It’s good to see you finally being openly honest with your wish to fuck up America.
Heads up: your little group of accelerationists don’t represent the Democratic voter base, by the way. You have already been counted out demographically as they know that every four years there will be people that will buy into conservative propaganda and not vote.
Just like what’s happening here.
Voting for Biden now is taking the brakes off a car heading towards a cliff.
The Democrats will never ever change course from becoming an extreme right wing party. Actually it’s too late.
Democrats are on board with Genocide and their immigration policy is at Trump levels. There is nothing to gain anymore with Biden winning.
And voting for Trump is what exactly? Because that is what you are accomplishing with your propaganda here. You’re getting Trump elected.
And everyone knows when that happens, you will disappear from here and resurface as a victim like the rest of the far left.
Every four years…
Not sure why you thinking about voting for Trump now.
Do you have trouble reading? I’m serious. Is there some problem you have with understanding what the topic of a statement is?
Because I never said anything similar to thinking about voting for Trump. So you either have a reading comprehension issue, or you’re purposefully trolling. Which is against the rules of this community.
Dude, you cannot just go around calling people you disagree with terrorists. Not voting for Biden for one time is not Accelerationism.
“While originally used by the far left, the term has, in a manner strongly distinguished from original accelerationist theorists, been used by right-wing extremists.”
Unless your boy is a conservative posing as a left wing propagandist, I’m not accusing anyone of being a “terrorist.“
What you’re all doing though, is your very best to ensure this country collapses under Trump. And you’re all insisting everyone not vote for the one person with the chance to keep him from overthrowing America over a single issue you didnt even give a shit about less than a year ago…
That means….
A. That’s your opinion. Nobody here has said they want the country to collapse. Accusing them of accelerationism is unfounded at best.
B. Left wing violent accelerationism very much exists in extreme anarchist movements. Not sure why wiki ignored that. But the number of non violent accelerationists is incredibly small. As an ideology it quickly moves people along into violence as the only way to truly move faster.
C. It would be entirely inside their ideology for a conservative accelerationist to depress the vote by any means. They want the democracy gone.
So, again. You do not get to accuse people of being terrorists or political extremists just because they won’t vote for your fearless leader. It’s ridiculous, self serving, and bad faith in a democracy.
“They want democracy gone”
You mean like the idiots shouting at everyone not to vote so Trump gets the win?
You’re not fooling anyone.
Again. Your opinion. Not mine.
It’s not just my opinion.
Yup it sure is.
Riiight. Ratios my friend. Pay attention to the ratios. On a far left leaning social media platform….
YOU still get downvoted into the dirt.
Unfortunately fear sells. And people like you are selling it hardcore. God forbid we hold anyone accountable, we might have to face team B being in office if team A doesn’t actually make themselves amenable to their voting base.
Enjoy team B while they’re carpet bombing Palestine into dust. I’d imagine it’ll be horrible to be held accountable for it when that time comes, but we both know you’ll be nowhere to be found.
Wow, first in my inbox, democracy is a kids temper tantrum and now you want to hold people “accountable” for voting.
The mask is coming off here.
It’s hilarious you think NOT voting is democratic. It’s legal, and a freedom you have, but it’s absolutely NOT democratic at all.
You’re by appearances, trying to get Trump elected- which is also- part of democracy…
But will also end it as we know it. And again… I’m sure you’re fully aware of it.
Removed, civility.
Removed, civility
Do you think people love their candidates? They are voting for lesser of the 2 evils. If you vote 3rd party if you just wasting your vote, so you could at least try to stop the other from winning. It’s basically what people are doing.
Well, that’s your opinion and you are entitled to believe in it.
That’s just not true. You do not have to vote with your party, you do not have to vote for every position on the ballot, and you do not have to vote at all if you do not want to.
Not how US Elections work. Only the winner writes the laws, if you want election reform then vote Dem. If you want Trump, don’t vote dem. Those are the only two options, voting third party does nothing to help. The cumulative sum of all EC Votes given to third party candidates in the USA for 47 years is 0, and we’re risking a lot by not firmly establishing DNC leadership as the lesser evil.
Is this a troll comment or do you actually believe this shit? “Double Genocide?”
Got it, you’re a troll.
No. Biden must be worthy of the office on his own merits. Or else this voting thing is useless. the people cannot hold their officials accountable if they must vote for them. That’s just an oligarchy with extra steps.
No. You have a responsibility to help the people that you can. Doing nothing while a worse person takes office is the same as you advocating for harm, directly.
And we can help people by pressuring Biden.
Trump is leading in the majority of polls, you’re not going to be able to pressure anybody when he wins.
That’s irrelevant. Trump is not the President. Pressuring him will do us no good.
Lmao, feigning ignorance of a US Election in a comment thread that literally started by talking about the US Election.
Trump has the advantage of being a challenger, he can just say shit. Biden needs to be pressured right now, to save people right now. Is that more clear to you?
Pressured by not voting for him in the general election?
Yup. But also signposting the shit out of that and being willing to vote for him if he just stops supporting genocide.
Lmao again you can’t pressure him if he doesn’t win.
If he wins while supporting a genocide then no amount of pressure after the election will work.
If you think that, then it’s not a problem you can solve by voting or a partisan stance. So it shouldn’t affect who you vote for.
So who’s worthy of the office that has a chance to win in November then?
Let’s see you name someone.
It’s easy to suggest people not vote- but let’s see you offer up a candidate in Biden’s stead since you hate him so much.
It’s entirely possible to leave the field blank.
“Just don’t vote”
“Idk, sounds kind of fascist to me, bro”
How the fuck is it fascism to use a feature of a democracy? You’ve gone completely off the cliff.
The part where Representative Democracy involves Voting to elect a leader, not just voting as a symbolic gesture.
How is voting only for people you actually want running the country in any way symbolic? Versus just always voting for a color. This is possibly the most ridiculous thing you’ve said to me in the last few weeks.
Because then you’re voting for an outcome that won’t exist, or even no outcome at all, and meanwhile somebody far worse gets elected instead.
No. In no world is not voting for someone somehow a vote. You cannot coerce votes and still call it a democracy. The entire point is freedom to vote for your choice.
Your votes do decide. The primaries selected Joe Biden in 2020, and this general election is going to be 51:49 in Trumps favor based on polls. We have a choice.
Not with that attitude. According to you it’s already decided.
Oh wow you really hit me with the “nuh uh.”
Dude seems to think that not voting will result in no one being elected. I don’t think they’re teaching this shit in schools anymore.
You understate how voting works, right? Like… this was taught to you as some point? Because if You don’t, then I can excuse the ignorance. Otherwise, you really should know better.
Not voting won’t cancel an election. Someone is STILL getting elected. So you can either go with “genocide Lite,” or SUPER-MEGA-ULTRA-GYRO GENOCIDE 3000 v2.0.
But you’re getting one or the other regardless. You have the choice to help this country along with those in Palestine from suffering worse.
And it provenly will be worse.
Oh yes I understand how you think voting works. You go in and pull the lever for whoever the party tells you or you get the stick again. But that’s not a democracy. In a democracy the party bends to the will of the people. Not the people to the party. Or else the Party gets the stick again.
Ahh. I get it. You haven’t yet figured out how things work yet. You’re still at that age where you think that you get what you want by simply asking for it, and when reality doesn’t comply- you throw temper tantrums and threaten to take your ball and go home when the other kids don’t play by your rules.
I think it’s called…. Idealism?
It’s all good. was the same way when I was young. Granted, I grew up and learned how things work before I could partake in anything too stupid- like… socialism.
I’m going to just ignore you now as I feel arguing with you is unfair and pointless.
Lmao. Real democracy is a temper tantrum? Are you sure you aren’t trying to stooge for an oligarchy?
Real democracy is voting. And I’m not about to be lectured on politics by someone that’s not voting over a single issue they didn’t give two shits about less than a year ago.
I never said I’m not voting. I said I’m not voting for Biden. And being forced to vote for someone still isn’t a democracy, no matter how much make up you put on it.
Right… all over something you didn’t give a shit about before it became something that could help you get your boy elected.
Did you go check my reddit history? My liveleak history? Read my college papers? No? You’re ridiculous.
Nope. Not going to either. I’ve read your history here. And what you say here is what matters. I don’t even know what liveleak is and don’t care.
Be responsible for your words here.
You had nothing to say about Palestine prior to October. Period. End of argument.
Nope. Name someone. Because leaving the field blank doesn’t negate an election. Someone is still going to be president.
Name someone.
Mr. Blank Field
So there it is. You cannot answer a simple question to support your entire ideology.
Just:
“biDeN bAD!” … but no alternative suggestions. Which clearly shows you are here in to disrupt.
My entire ideology here is not to support genocide. Everything else has been your projection.
You absolutely WILL be supporting genocide by allowing trump to get elected
Bit you know that. Don’t you?
Trump isn’t the reason for Biden to be elected. That way lies authoritarianism of it’s own kind because it makes it impossible to hold anyone accountable. You might as well let the oligarchy directly tell you who to vote for.
Trump will be actively worse than Biden because he would bring the worst Israeli policies HERE.
Illegal invasion of Lebanon? Yeah, Trump wants that for Mexico.
rollingstone.com/…/donald-trump-mexico-military-c…
So, yeah, that’s what you’re voting for if you don’t vote Biden.
Id trust the people on the streets there before any out of touch government second guesser
Yeah, but in typical c-suite fashion they (e.g., Biden in this case) listen but don’t hear or care what the people who are actually in the shit of it all think/say because agendas.
Says the guy who literally built a fucking pier to delivery food because Israel won’t let trucks go through on the road.