‘We will not survive’: Toyota, Honda and Ford CEOs issue chilling warning about China — and it could hit your portfolio
(moneywise.com)
from schizoidman@lemmy.zip to world@lemmy.world on 27 Apr 04:23
https://lemmy.zip/post/63264799
from schizoidman@lemmy.zip to world@lemmy.world on 27 Apr 04:23
https://lemmy.zip/post/63264799
And, a recent tour of one of the Asian powerhouse’s vehicle plants has proved this beyond a shadow of a doubt, at least to Honda President and CEO Toshihiro Mibe.
“We have no chance against this,” Mibe said upon a visit to a Shanghai parts factory, commenting on its seamless automation across all levels of production. Logistics, procurement and all aspects of the process were so automated, in fact, that he did not spot a single human worker on the supplier’s floor.
Ford executives saying even three years ago that China was way ahead of the game
Toyota’s CEO has likewise said regarding not just his company, but the industry in general, “unless things change, we will not survive”
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Well that’s capitalism. It’s what you wanted right? Competition to keep you on your toes?
Looks like the invisible hand of the market favors what the people want more than what bosses think we can take.
Please keep buying our shitty cars, we won’t survive otherwise.
This is not about pure capitalism, though. The reason Chinese EVs are so successful is that the Chinese government heavily subsidizes those companies. I would not be surprised if they sell cars at a loss. So the issue is exactly the opposite of capitalism. It’s pure capitalism being crushed by big government
The government investing in infrastructure upgrades instead of forever bring lobbied by the fossil fuel industry is big government now?
Not saying CCP isn’t big government, but “crushed by big government” is very strong imagery
What do you think Walmart does when they go to a new market?
This is not capitalism as China is net-lossing market acquisition.
This is called “dumping” and is not a feature of capitalism in any way. In fact, every single economic school that likes capitalism is against it. Generally net-loss market acquisition is very bad thing for our society as it privatizes gains and socializes losses. i.e. if EV market suddenly implodes many people would be holding the bag and if EV market succeeds then only a few people profit.
Marxists themselves classify net-loss acquisition as a failure of late-stage capitalism (which is fair) but when .ml’s favorite flavor of authoritarians do it then it’s ok lmao
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I’ve been wanting Honda to make an affordable all-electric car for years. Based on how BYD is selling, I’m guessing I’m not the only one.
Instead they keep making bigger and bigger, gas-guzzling vehicles, with bells and whistles we don’t need, saying that’s what sells and they can’t make an electric vehicle they’re happy with.
Well, too bad. It seems I’ve bought my last Honda, sadly, because my next vehicle will not burn gasoline.
On the same boat and yes it’s depressing. It’s also depressing that nobody seems to be thinking about all electric small cars, or even normal width cars, at least where I live. Teslas and BYDs here are about as wide as buses. I can only dream of Honda or Toyota making an electric vehicle no wider than 70% of the lanes they’re supposed to drive on.
Renault seem to offer quite a few these days that are fairly small.
Renaults are rare in Australia (and for some reason also disliked by aussies in general ). I would say the most popular brands are BYD, Tesla, Honda, Toyota, Kia, and Hyundai, easily more than half the cars you see in circulation today. I can probably count with my fingers the amount of times I’ve seen a Renault while driving.
They did. The Honda e was the perfect tiny EV, except for its massive price tag and small-ish range. And of course, in classic Honda fashion, as a promising but flawed attempt didn’t succeed immediately, they promptly abandoned the segment instead of capitalizing on acquired knowledge, battery technology advances and price drops. Given how successful the Renault 5 is, I’m pretty sure a 2nd gen e at half the price would have been a massive success.
Of course, being Honda, they changed their mind and came back with a significantly worse SUV.
They would probably not have managed to slash the price in half with one generation.
The original Honda E was € 35.330 in 2020, which was a difficult sell given the small 170km range.
Half price would mean an electric car for ~€ 18.000
Looking at other Western manufacturers (e.g. Peugeot, Citroen, Volkswagen, Dacia) for a fair comparison, that is a stretch even today. Most EVs don’t really go below 20k, and 25k seems to be the current range for affordable EVs.
The issue is largely the cost of the battery. That cost has come down over the years, but not to the extent that Honda could have suddenly slashed the price of their EV in half.
Edit: That is not to say Honda shouldn’t have kept releasing more EVs.
I’m just pointing out that they probably would follow the same path as the other Western automakers that have pretty consistently been releasing EVs over the past decade orso.
The new Honda Super-N looks pretty small and is way better value than the Honda E was.
I don’t need a car, but if I did that would be what I’d get.
Maybe the US needs to take a play out of China’s book - require >50% ownership stake of any Chinese company doing business in the US and allow American companies to just take that technology and roll with it.
This is the very same extreme capitalism that they have enjoyed, engineered, abused. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Or, rapidly change expectations for what they charge. They cannot have it both ways
Good these are companies that fought the transition to EVs every step of the way. Toyota in particular. Which was ironic after releasing the Prius
Toyota is way too conservative. After nailing hybrid tech early on, it seems like they wasted the opportunity to put it on every vehicle they make which would have been such an amazing step forward, instead of treating it as a weird niche for so long.
Also that bz4x or whatever deserves a spot on the worst cars of all time list, just straight up ewaste.
No, no. Build big beautiful F150, Tundras and other mastodonts running on dinosaur fuel. Fail to adapt, fail to exist.
MFW the communists beat the capitalists at their own game
Good morning. You old style car companies (and it is not just the US ones, count the European companies in, too) slept through the last decades. They tried everything in the book to supress EVs, and still keep developing fossil fuel cars to be released in ten years.
And now they start to wake up, seeing that the world moved onwithout them, and they cry.
I work in a USA manufacturing plant that has nine figures worth of EV motor manufacturing lines cancelled, sitting around collecting dust since the new administration changed all the regulations and incentives.
I genuinely think there will be a few major auto manufacturers who don’t survive the EV transition. Either they will go bankrupt altogether, or be bought out by other, more competent manufacturers.
That’s been going on for a while already. Stellantis was founded only a few years ago and they already have a ton of different brands in their pockets. Obviously PSA and FCA already had a ton of those brands before merging, but similar merges have been happening for decades, for example GM has been gathering different brands since 1920s.
I’ve been in the market for a decent Japanese EV for like 10 years now and still drive my 2004 toyota around. Sure China is dumping but Japan has been sleeping so hard it’s hard to have any sympathy here.
Nissan leaf is the way to go.
sadly not available in my region
Aww man, China is dumping to gain market share for EVs? That’s crazy. If only car manufacturers had adapted to EVs sooner and researched more into better battery technologies, they might not be in this position. Get fucked. This whole, every car has to be super luxorious in America is getting ridiculous. I looked at a rav4 last year and the “features” they included in the base model was mental. I just want my car to go when I press the pedal. Brake. And a CD Player. I don’t need half the shit they put in American market cars. Doesn’t help that I have a large family that needs to travel far, frequently. So, my hands are tied with getting an SUV. I’d kill for a better train transit in America. Next car gets to be an EV though. Cause that’s the sedan.
Wouldn’t they still be in the samw situation as China can afford to dump indefinitely?
They cannot dump indefinitely. That is impossible with current global circumstances. Also, if companies actually invested in EVs sooner, costs would be down already and China would have a harder time dumping. The biggest issue currently is, China can dump for longer than manufacturers can catch up. You reap what you sow, though.
It could hit my portfolio? What portfolio?
So what you’re saying is you need Daddy Trump to bail you out with taxpayer dollars we don’t have so you can not change anything to make vehicles nobody can afford?
Maybe pull yourselves up by your bootstraps. You know, the whole “meritocracy” thing.
Simple affordable vehicles if they want to keep the factories busy and and sell a lot of vehicles. Greatly reduce the massive trucks and SUVs. I don’t know how many people need to tell them that before they finally listen.
They will be fine, the USA will just bail them out again and again