from girlfreddy@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 12 Oct 16:10
https://lemmy.ca/post/30818586
Ukrainian military recruitment officers raided restaurants, bars and a concert hall in Kyiv, checking military registration documents and detaining men who were not in compliance, media and witnesses reported Saturday.
Officers descended on Kyiv’s Palace of Sports venue after a concert Friday night by Ukrainian rock band Okean Elzy. Video footage aired by local media outlets appears to show officers stationed outside the doors of the concert hall intercepting men as they exit. In the footage, officers appear to be forcibly detaining some men.
Checks were also conducted at Goodwine, an upscale shopping center, and Avalon, a popular restaurant.
It is unusual for such raids to take place in the capital, and reflects Ukraine’s dire need for fresh recruits. All Ukrainian men aged 25-60 are eligible for conscription, and men aged 18-60 are not allowed to leave the country.
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https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-drones-oil-depot-mobilization-40c6a27b9f98876b913a4daee0403c2c
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It’s amazing we’re paying for this instead of healthcare. I totally love emy tax dollars forcing people to kill or be tortured by their own country.
Where in the world are you? In my part my tax money goes far enough to pay for both. And free university studies so that no one has to take loans.
Does your country have national debt, or is it affording to pay for all those things while keeping balance?
That’s a weird question. All countries have national debt because that’s the way governments work.
If the question was about how sustainable it is, then you should know that only Japan and Italy have worse debt to GDP ratios than the US. That means that whatever the ratio is for his country, it’s more sustainable than what the US is currently doing.
People, especially people in the U.S., have this strange idea that a government should be run like a business or a household, with no debts. Except those do have debts.
Similar with our budget deficits. Both Republicans and Democrats constantly talk about needing a balanced budget “just like you do at home.” But who has a balanced budget anymore? Almost everyone in the U.S. who isn’t very rich or very poor is in debt.
Trump himself has an entire book about never spending your own money, and instead using debt to pay for everything while your own money earns you more money.
Almost like these maga people don’t even read the books they claim to worship.
A more reasonable argument is we’re in too much debt, and it will eventually come due, regardless of current fashion.
To go with your analogy of household debt …… there used to be a rule of thumb to keep your mortgage payments under 28% of income, and few other debts , until it was relaxed. Now you have people with debt payments exceeding 40%, even 50% of their income, making it difficult to pay for everyday needs. They’re”house poor”. At what point do we consider a country “house poor”
The U.S. was debt-free for one year. In 1835. It was a disaster. Unsurprisingly, it was done through the tyrannical rule of Andrew Jackson.
npr.org/…/when-the-u-s-paid-off-the-entire-nation…
Yeah, I’ll bet you don’t have the debt we created to pay for our military industrial complex and further enrich our oligarchs
You're not paying for it instead of healthcare. The US federal government already spends twice what comparable countries do per person on healthcare. The problem is not Ukraine.
not to mention the money “going to ukraine” is just being used to replace us stockpiled weapons, which the US would have spent anyways.
If you’re arguing that we should reduce military spending in the face of a increasingly imperialist Russia, then you might as well save yourself the time and move to Russia, if you’re not there already.
I was about to say, aren’t we just giving them old outdated weapons and equipment anyway that we were going to replace? I mean sure we pass a Ukraine bill every now and then but I don’t think it’s costing us as much as people think.
It actually boosts our economy.
True, himars are been bought in the thousands
Exactly. Even better lol.
Replaced by US manufacturers, using US workforce, paying them, in the US.
Your lips are moving and you’re complaining.
Oh god damn it, did I miss that ballot measure?
You know, I try and vote in every election, but I somehow missed the vote on “Support Ukraine or Universal Healthcare Care”.
Shit.
As things stand with the major political parties in the US you’ll get neither.
Support for Ukraine is waning in the Dems, and the Reps are a Russian puppet. But as Israel is heading to war with Iran, both parties will sacrifice Ukraine, so that they can focus their war efforts on Iran.
That would still help Ukraine. I loathe the lack of support from my party and of course the Republicans are basically Z fascists at this point. But cutting up one part of the Russia, Iran, North Korea axis would help Ukraine if only indirectly. The worst thing we could do is do nothing.
If the US stops or drastically reduces military aid to Ukraine and moves its surveillance efforts to West Asia, that will devastate Ukraines war effort. Iran only sells some missiles to Russia. Ending that is in no proportion to what Ukraine would loose in US support.
Also the resulting Oil price hike would replenish Russias war chest and drive another global recession, reducing the willingness of EU countries to step up their military support.
I love it when people just declare things without bothering to check.
…umd.edu/umd-critical-issues-poll-public-support-…
Are those Americans members of the Democratic party and in particular in the house or senate?
www.cfr.org/…/how-much-us-aid-going-ukraine
So that is 66.8 Billion in 2022, 47.4 Billion in 2023 and 61.3 Billion in 2024. However it is always to little and too late. By the threat Ukraine is facing now, it would need to be stepped up significantly. Note that these are including all money spend in relation to Ukraine/the war. Of the 175 Billion total only 106 Billion are direct military aid.
Also lets compare Ukraine aid per capita to Israel aid per capita. Ukraine had 41 Million people before the start of the Russian invasion. 106 Billion military aid amounts to 2,585 $ per Ukrainian over 2.5 years.
apnews.com/…/israel-hamas-war-us-military-spendin…
The US has sent 17.9 Billion to Israel over the past year. Israel has a population of 9.3 Million people, of which 7.2 Million are considered “real” Israelis by the ethnostate definition. So that is 2,486 $ per “real” Israeli in one year. If we include the second grade citizen arabs, it amounts to 1.925 $ per Israeli citizen.
One year of Israels onslaught on Gaza and now Lebanon is worth about the same to the US like 2.5 years of Ukraine defending itself against Russias invasion.
If we look at the per GDP aid to Ukraine, the US is way below many European countries, see first source.
<img alt="" src="https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/n1bP3/plain.png">
When it comes to hiking up the “aid” or “involvement” in Israels attacks on its neighbors Ukraine will suffer grave consequences as the US will reduce its spending. With the US reducing its spending, chance is high that the European countries feel their spending to be hopeless and withdraw aid to Ukraine too, trying to pressure Ukraine into giving up territory to Russia for achieving a truce instead.
Yes, those are American members of the Democratic party. That’s why they are called “Democrats.” Almost none of them are in the house or senate. You didn’t mention those. This is what you said:
The rest of your post is irrelevant to the fact that you said something that you assumed was true because you didn’t bother looking it up and if you had, you’d have found out it wasn’t.
Then let me clarify: the Democratic party politicians and officials in office, who exert the political party of the power.
Who rely on the members of the Democratic party to stay in office? And it’s an election year?
I’d say support for Ukraine is something they’re considering.
This would be the same in every country.
As others have said, every time this gets brought up, the counterpoint is that we already pay more for healthcare than other countries, and there is 0 response.
At some point it’s just old man yells at cloud.
Lol shut up tankie
You do know both can be done, yes? Universal healthcare and aiding Ukraine to stop Russian expansionism are possible.
As almost every other country in the world proves.
Countries like Burkina Faso have universal healthcare ffs.
People like the one I replied to apparently don’t understand basic concepts like raising tax revenue.
The U.S. could afford Medicare for All and fund Ukraine right now with some budget adjustments. The U.S. could afford a massive social safety net the likes of which the architects of the New Deal could only dream of if we just raised taxes on the wealthy.
Medicare for all would cost America less than the current system, freeing up funds that could be used for other things such as Ukraine aid
Hey, there’s plenty well trained and professional soldiers in nato countries. Maybe leave those poor teens aline and send the guys who wanted to do this.
Just that Ukraine isn’t a NATO member so there’s no way to trigger article 5
And believe it or not, not many people want to fight in Ukraine, and not many countries want to send their people to fight there
I always wondered how you could go about this? Could you try to become a firefighter, medic or some other essential job to keep you safe?
I don't know how it works in Ukraine today, but historically yes. You often don't need to be underhanded about it either. In Britain during both world wars, as an example, conscientious objectors were actually organised into a non-combat corps that would take on important roles exactly like the ones you suggested.
Slavery is okay if you slap a patriotic label on it.
False equivalence.
A fight for a countries survival is not the same as slavery because they’re enforcing a draft, even as terrible as the draft may be.
It doesn’t say anything about about a military draft exception. All drafts are slavery. It doesn’t matter how noble the people enforcing it think their cause is.
Soldiers, conscripted or volunteer, aren’t owned as property though. Although I’m sure we’ll have ‘discourse’ about that. They aren’t bought, sold, or traded for goods and services.
They functionally are. They are compelled to comply under the threat of violence.
Sorry but if your country is literally being invaded by hostile forces and your own country’s government didn’t commit some heinous act to invite said invasion (genocide, or retribution for their own invasion), you are a hopeless coward trying to dodge that draft. We’re not talking about fucking Vietnam.
Do you feel the same way about women not volunteering themselves since they don’t have a draft?
Yes, I do. If they’re not or can’t volunteer to be part of the military there are other ways they can contribute to national defense. See: WW2
I think we have misaligned values (you seem to put less value in individual rights), but I can respect your consistency.
Dunno how the situation is in Ukraine but in Germany it’s actually stricter for women: Men can refuse service at arms, while women can’t refuse medical service.
In any case not getting drafted usually is as simple as finding something else to do that’s helping the war effort. Hold the home front.
My understanding of the situation in Ukraine is that women are free to do as they please and men are now property of the Ukrainian government.
Why? Why would I die for a piece of land, I don’t give a shit where I was born I value my life more than that, I’m not dying for some politician ego trip. You can go right ahead of you want
Ukraine doesn’t fight for land, they fight to not get genocided. It’s the Russian side which has the politician on an ego trip.
And you, out of your comfortable armchair, cannot predict how you’d react in the same situation. There’s instinctive forces at play in such situations.