Germany: Chancellor Olaf Scholz loses vote of confidence
(www.bbc.com)
from Hubi@feddit.org to world@lemmy.world on 16 Dec 16:11
https://feddit.org/post/5741843
from Hubi@feddit.org to world@lemmy.world on 16 Dec 16:11
https://feddit.org/post/5741843
#world
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*SPD
I’m already dreading the elections…
Edit: realized that BBC is calling them SDP. Which is… weird. It’s a mix of translating the name, but also keeping the letters, but wrong.
Just write the real name and translate its meaning.
They also do it for the other parties, where it by pure chance works. Except for AfD. Where they don’t translate the initials. Very chaotic
I’m dreading their outcome…
“Social Democrat Party” maybe?
Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands = Socialist Democratic Party of Germany
When will the USA have version of the SPD which can contend with the Democrats and Government of Putin?
yes. that’s exactly what I’m critizising
I think it’s fairly common to not translate the initials for political party names. Most English commentary I’ve seen uses just the initials. That said, it is a little weird they translated the names and used the initials at the same time.
"The AfD will not get into government because no-one will work with it to form a coalition. But the far-right is eating into the share of the vote that goes to the two centrist big-tent parties which have always put forward modern German chancellors."
They will never get elected again, if they cooperate with the nazis.
I wish
Cause there won’t be elections?
I’m still banking on the Bundesverfassungsgericht (Germany’s “supreme court”) to stop the worst madness. But hopefully it doesn’t even have to come to this…
Where have I heard this one before?
FTFY
France? Sweden? Italy? US? Netherlands?
God, I hate the world rn.
The left in Europe and across the world needs to get stricter and more restrictive towards immigration or else they will just open the door to mainstreaming the far-right.
Not really. The conservatives have tried adopting talking points from the far right, but all it did was legitimize these stances. It actually caused even more voters to shift further right, with moderates becoming increasingly demoralized. The right will always vote right, no matter what the details of the actual policies are. The left will just further divide itself by taking conservative stances. A party has to fit a niche, and you won’t get that by just taking policies from others.
It is possible to be economically and socially left but still have issues with migration making problems.
Shoehorning progressives into uncomfortable stances isn’t the way either
Take the political spectrum. Everyone except the far left fringe cares about immigration and secure borders.
You don’t have to hate immigrants or be a racist to want your country’s borders safe and illegal immigration curbed.
The left can keep ignoring this at their own peril.
But Germany doesn’t actually have a problem with illegal immigration. Almost all immigrants in Germany are here legally.
There are roughly 50.000 “Ausreisepflichtige” (Persons required to leave the country) out of a population of 84 Million. That number is roughly constant over the last 10 years. Doesn’t seem to be an issue worth discussing.
That’s a fig leaf. I’m a 99.99% certain you’d be against making legal immigration requirements less demanding and legal immigration application procedures less lengthy and difficult. You’re against immigrants and you’re hiding behind the legality of strict immigration requirements imposed by the right to claim all you want is people to follow the (impossible if you’re not a Westerner) rules.
You can vote for people drowning in the mediteranea, but don’t think of yourself as a good person.
Thank you for saying this. Any faction which tries to be close but no quite identical to another partys philosophy is going to have no real voters, and they will lose. Its what happened in the US. You have to dance with the person who accompanied you to the dance.
If you have a problem with immigration as it is now, you better hope you’re not around in 10-15 years when climate change gets really bad.
With very few exceptions, and Germany isn’t one of them, immigration is an intractable problem. On the one side mass immigration creates or worsens quite a number of issues including housing, wage suppression, and crime. On the other side are the swiftly declining native populations that will lead to a lack of workers and economic implosion if not quickly resolved.
The reality is that most Western Nations need even more immigration than what they already have; the problem is that the leaders haven’t done sufficient planning or dedicated sufficient resources. They simply threw the doors open and started ushering people in, apparently on the belief that people would figure it out for themselves.
Canada is an excellent example of this. Their politicians had an “Oh Shit!” moment a few years back when they realized population collapse was imminent so they propped their doors wide open and hung out a glowing neon “Welcome to Canada!” sign. Now their Education and Health Care systems are overwhelmed, housing markets are going up faster than a SpaceX rocket, and food prices are completely out of hand. All because they immigrated millions of people without preparing for them.
Immigrated needed to start earlier, move slower, and have far more prep work, instead many western countries waited until the last minute (or beyond).
At this point the best way forward is to start intense mass education efforts explaining why all of this immigration is both urgent and necessary.
Also the vetting process is important. We need young healthy educated modern immigrants, not elderly nationalistic bumpkins with antiquated social mores. Look at the health issues associated with Pakistani cousin marriage. Certainly importing people from specific regions with widespread social issues should be curtailed or avoided
You’re describing the right.
The left is about addressing problems upstream. Address the injustices and inequalities that cause people to leave their countries in the first place.
Or do you really think the dream of people from the global south is to come live in the coldest, dampest, least fun climates of the earth? Given a chance at a good life they would gladly stay where their family, friends and culture are rooted.
Hey, some of us like having no fun.
THIS! 100%!
So many people have such a huge superiority complex, it is unbelievable.
“Nu-uh! They will come either way because they want to be here and steal our lives! They don’t care about their land, families, culture, and friends. No, they already know we are the best in everything, so they come here!”
Even the theory that immigrants act as some form of hivemind, where every one of them has the exact same reasons to come here, is beyond stupid; it is just vile and dehumanizing!
That some people would gladly go home instead of staying here, where so many “natives” are full of themselves and racism is spreading like the plague it is, is something they can’t even begin to grasp.
Now watch the elections being heavily targeted by Russian propaganda and Germany not doing a single thing about it.
Germany’s Election and people are relatively robust. The efforts Russia pooled in to the AfD are tremendous and they resulted in mostly nothing. The resulting chaos in the rest of the parties are mostly their own doing. The SPD and CDU bickering and fighting stupid battles that do not need to be fought, the greens not being united and still trying to make many things outright illegal, the FDP not getting rid of Lindner and the Linke/BSW being way to far up that Russian ass came about without considerable effort from the Russians. Also, Germany has the same issue like all countries these days, “the common people” do not want to deal with politics
My only criticism of the past and present German governments, which includes the SPD and CDU, the illegal immigration, Russia and Afghanistan. We cannot allow a flood of undocumented illegals into Europe, Merkel gave Putin too much maneuvering room and the military mission in Afghanistan. Looks like I will end up voting again to keep the fucking AfD and Die Linke at bay.
Scholz was even worse on this than Merkel was. He strongly advocated for the limpest possible response to Russias invasions, but the strongest possible support to the Israeli genocide. He’s centrist trash and possibly just taking bribes.
Kein Mensch ist illegal, so fuck off
What Germany need is a socialist party but only for the right people. Some kind of german-first socialist party. Maybe you could call it national socialism or something
Everyone in the comments saying that the “left” needs to be stricter on immigration is not reading the news apparently. First of if you are anti human rights you are not left anymore. And if you allow the normalisation of right wing policy you are not left anymore. And if your left party suddenly starts shifting to the right noone votes for you anymore. True leftists are disappointed by you and right wingers won’t stop voting for the true right.
#notruescotsman
Sean Connery is a true Scotsman. QED.
Sometimes there really aren’t any Scottish dudes in attendance. Shame, but there you have it.
I have not heard that one but yea. If you tell someone to be more Cambodian that would make them less Scottish probably.
Summarising left wing ideologies as pro-immigration is exactly the reason the far right is rising, but sure, go for another 40 years of the same politics, I’m sure it’ll work eventually
Ouais, les nazis, c’est la faute a la gauche. C’est bien connu.
Serieux, les francais, c’est des petites merdes de racistes lol. Des raclures qui votent pour un tortionnaire ou un banquier. J’y avais des amis, je les ai tous perdus quand ils ont commencer a chier sur les bougnoules et les gitans qui nous volent notre travail. On me demande si je parle belge. Mes potes grecs evitent d’y aller car on les traite d’arabe.
T’es une petite merde. Batard.
Politics is not about winning. Sticking to your principles and your morals instead of selling out and supporting the death of thousands in the mediterranean sea and the middle east is worth more than winning some seats in parliament. There is no one reason the right is on the rise. Populism and giving in to the temptation of power are definitely leading factors though.
Nazis winning is because leftists are nazis enough.
Another zionist pig bites the dust. Poor guy, his bribery paychecks will stop and he’ll have to get a real job. Thats what pushing a right wing zionist policy that only 30 percent of your constituents support gets you. Bubye, pig.
Germany electorate, please pleasantly surprise us. It’s been as dark year. Don’t vote in Nazis as well.
They are already in parliament and will gain votes but they will not govern, that’s pretty much guaranteed. We will get a conservative-led government though, a little to the right of Merkel. Most probably a conservative/social democratic coalition (think Mitt Romney Republicans with Biden Democrats) or a less likely less stable conservative/green coalition (think Mitt Romney Republicans with AOC Democrats).
The new government will be pro Ukraine (with the conservatives and greens extremely so, with the social-democrats a little hesitant but mainly, too) but also pro-Israel (with the greens more hesitant). All parties involved are pro European integration.
To be honest, foreign policies will not change much except for the European Chat Control legislation. While the current German government is strongly against it, Social Democrats are somewhere between indifferent and in favor, conservatives are strongly in favor and while Greens are against it, I can see them agreeing to a bad compromise with the conservatives.
If that happens I will happily accept a CDU+SDP grand coalition. Just no fucking AfD please for Christ’s sake
AfD will not govern on national level in the next four years. I expect that CDU in some eastern state will eventually form a coalition with the AfD, but that has to happen first before they try on a national level. Then it will depend on the fall-out of that state coalition what will happen next.
I agree with most of what you said, except the Greens being less pro-Israel. They have passed a ridiculous non binding resolution with the CDU that calls for every University, Theatre, Museum and other place of science or culture to have a “structured dialogue” with the internal security. In other words they want to place an internal security agent at every of these places to make sure nobody who is not “without a doubt not antisemitic” aka anyone who isn’t radically pro Israel receive any funding, projects, exhibition spaces or prizes.
Also the head of the “German Israeli Society” Volker Beck is a member of the Green party and former MEP for the Greens. He calls for Israel to permanently annex Gaza, called for denying food and other basic necessities to Gaza as a “bargaining” for Hamas to release the hostages.
These kind of statements are illegal under German laws, specifically made after the Nazi era to prevent incitement to hate and violence against minorities.
The Green party have a genocidal fascist in their own rows and they make no effort to remove him. And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Looking at statements from Baerbock, the current foreign minister, who boasts about her background in international law and also justifies murdering civillians, spreads Israeli disinformation and openly denied Israeli war crimes despite available video evidence. Also all weapon deliveries needed approval by the Foreign ministry and the Economic ministry, both run by Green ministers, with the other Minister Habeck being now the “chancellor candidate” of the Green party.
Where does he do that? (I know this is 4 days old.)
And there have been no weapons deliveries for the best part of 2024 (iirc, the last German weapons deliveries were in February), with the Greens stepping on the brakes there.
xcancel.com/Volker_Beck/…/1867482839488385329#m
“Israel will not withdraw from all of Gaza. Otherwise 7th of october would be repeated in the time to come”
So he demands an indefinite occupation, which utlimately means annexation, in particular as Israeli settler terrorists as well as government ministers are making plans for settling in Gaza.
Thank you for that twitter workaround link.
As for weapons deliveries another 100 million € worth have been approved since August and are currently in delivery or in part have arrived already.
timesofisrael.com/germany-approves-over-100-milli…
I don’t think that’s what he means, see this Phoenix interview (German). No doubt his ideas are rather harsh (not the best word, but I need to leave now) though.
(Ftr, for anyone confused at this exchange – the Twitter thing was in a completely different thread.)
That makes me feel better. Thanks. I worry about the UK and our FPTP and Reform. They could gain power with it.
Can someone more informed than me tell me if this means recreational weed will be legal in Germany or no?
Recreational weed is already legal in Germany as of this year. Some hardliners of the CDU have claimed they want to re-criminalize it, but most people assume that it’s just pre-election posturing as all of their possible coalition partners have previously supported legalization. It would be a very unpopular move with barely any support.