They did not say that. The safe zone was solely meant to protect people from the bulk of the ground fighting in Gaza city. That's it. Don't make up nonsense.
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 23:28
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Hahahahaha. Holy fuck. You think it sounds better that there are no safe zones for civilians? That anywhere they go within their state, surrounded at all sides, they can be bombed from the skies?
Serious question: Is this your first war? Wars usually don't have safe zones at all. Even a terrible safe zone is still better than nothing.
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 16:09
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Serious question, you think this is a fucking war? You think both sides have equatable forces and that Israel is in significant danger of retaliation? Theyâve killed more hostages themselves than Hamas has. This is an extermination by a country with zero moral boundaries.
DdCno1@kbin.social
on 22 Feb 2024 16:18
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There are very rarely wars between similar sides. This war is not unusual for that at all. In fact, after WW2, most conflicts have been asymmetric. You are also omitting that Hamas have launched thousands of rockets against Israel since October 7, have tried countless times to breach border defenses and repeat the October 7 massacres. Do not belittle the threat that Hamas poses despite being nowhere near as powerful as the IDF. Hamas have no chance of winning a war, but they can inflict a great deal of damage.
Theyâve killed more hostages themselves than Hamas has.
According to whom? It's Hamas who reports how hostages have died and more than once, hostages that according to Hamas died due to bombing were in fact executed: "Forensic officials have said that autopsies of slain hostages who had been recovered found causes of death inconsistent with Hamas' account they had died in air strikes."
This is an extermination by a country with zero moral boundaries.
What do you actually know about Israel? Zero moral boundaries? What kind of farce of a fantasy have you created of this nation?
dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 17:36
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Hamas physically could not fight a war against Israel given
Israel has an incredibly powerful and sophisticated military
Israel has the complete military backing of the US which is overwhelmingly powerful
Israel controls everything about Gaza including entrance and exit, water, electricity and internet access
Hamas has no significant number of anti-air assets, antitank assets or anything required to resist a modern armored ground offensive backed by air superiority
If any one of those four were true, it would be impossible for Hamas to fight a âwarâ, the fact that all four are true makes it abundantly clear any sense of a âwar between two militariesâ is a complete warping of reality. Israel does not want to conquer Gaza, it wants erase the human beings living there, this is much scarier than a war. MUCH scarier.
Lemmy is not the place for truths. People have decided what their truth looks like and itâs the jewsâ fault when that clashes with reality. This place is 100% pro âPalestineâ and other nonsense.
DdCno1@kbin.social
on 21 Feb 2024 22:50
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Name any other army that does this. Homes can be rebuilt, people can not. This is the least terrible option.
Yeah except they lied and decided the bomb everything anyway. They only do this for PR, not because they actually care about Palestinians.
livus@kbin.social
on 22 Feb 2024 01:11
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Kind of a trick question since a lot of armies aren't routinely bombing civillian houses in the first place.
WanderingVentra@lemm.ee
on 22 Feb 2024 15:09
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Hot take I know, but they could not destroy a whole region filled with civilians.
fastandcurious@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 23:51
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âEverywhere you go will be bombed as well LOLâ
Tangent5280@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 10:41
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Iâve had some ex-girlfriends like that
spacesatan@lemm.ee
on 21 Feb 2024 18:40
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But donât forget to let centrist dems know youâll keep voting for them even if they support a genocide.
Altofaltception@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 18:51
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Oh boy get ready for the downvotes
abort_christian_babies@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 19:36
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What do you recommend to do as an alternative?
spacesatan@lemm.ee
on 21 Feb 2024 21:04
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If I vote(solid blue here so not much practical point) Iâm doing a write in for president and any pro-israel candidates down ballot. I would not be upset by Biden losing to trump by the margin of votes for âstop the genocideâ in swing states. Preferably with a blue congress but whatever it takes to drive the point home for dems that they cannot cross this line and still have electoral viability.
abort_christian_babies@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 21:25
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I appreciate your conviction and morals, genuinely.
What youâre proposing is essentially sacrificing some
form of democratic world order for full authoritarianism based on a single horrible event. Nuanced perspective may be more useful than absolutism in this scenario.
Hate to admit it, but, to me it seems we have been forced into a lesser of two evils scenario.
More poetically, a shit sandwich.
Also, please vote. Even in saturated areas your vote counts, especially in tight and artificially contested elections.
What an incredibly idiotic thing to do. Trump is hell-bent on destroying American democracy and giving both China and Russia all the Lebensraum that they want while enriching himself. And do look up his Israel policy, while you're at it.
The amount of suffering a Trump victory has a high chance of creating makes the war in Gaza look like a picnic.
rebelsimile@sh.itjust.works
on 21 Feb 2024 23:32
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So youâve got like 9 months to figure this out, but it really didnât work last time to call everyone who didnât like the centrist democrat option idiotic. Just history rhyming is all. Letâs try a different rhetoric?
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 22:16
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âyou should shove your thumb up your ass in protest, itâll do so much good! Really stick it to the genocidal demsâ - đ¤Ą
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 22:15
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Hey, stupid, the other choice is letting Trump win and even if Biden personally grabbed a gun and started murdering Palestinians in the streets heâd do less damage than Trump would.
Please remove your head from your ass or we will, yet again, let that flagrantly fascist psychopath take charge.
spacesatan@lemm.ee
on 21 Feb 2024 22:46
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Damn thats crazy, maybe the centrist dems should have voted for a candidate in the primary that wouldnât abandon the critical âanti-genocideâ voting bloc. Iâll gladly take a term of trump if it means less shit dem candidates in the future.
Leftists and progressives have 0 leverage against centrist democrats if our votes are unconditional, if supporting a genocide isnât a line too far then nothing is.
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 23:34
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Damn maybe voting democratic even as a centrist is closer to center than how far the right has gone. Damn maybe not voting because you donât like your choices just allows a candidate that has radically more damaging positions take the position of power.
Maybe not voting like a pretentious little bitch actually fucks over yourself and everyone who has similar principles to you because you want to feel morally superior.
Voting for Trump THE FIRST TIME was supposed to be the âweâll get less shitty demsâ how the fuck did that work out? Oh it didnât! Stop being so fucking stupid. This logic is so twisted and broken it could serve as the next Republican frontrunner.
Youâre not going to shame me into voting for the guy arming a genocide lol. If the centrist dems donât like losing votes from the left they should stop choosing unviable candidates in the primary.
But even ignoring any long term goals to drag the democrats left kicking and screaming Iâm just not going to vote for a guy that armed a genocide. Not holding my nose for that.
brain_in_a_box@lemmy.ml
on 22 Feb 2024 08:49
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is doing something you donât like.
Itâs. A. Fucking. Genocide.
brain_in_a_box@lemmy.ml
on 22 Feb 2024 08:47
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Biden personally grabbed a gun and started murdering Palestinians in the streets
What if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue?
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 11:28
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Oh thatâs a tough one. Maybe. Depends on the time of day Iâd reckon.
agitatedpotato@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 2024 11:50
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Lool and the people who say that shit about Biden think blue maga isnt a thing. Seems pretty apt when Biden voters say shit like that.
airportline@lemmy.ml
on 22 Feb 2024 16:38
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I, for one, donât think we should give our elected officials a free pass just because the other guy would be worse.
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 16:49
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Who said anything about a free pass? Youâre making shit up now. I said we should vote for him, not get on our knees and suck. Critique him. Talk shit about him just as I have. But if you donât vote for him youâre absolutely letting the other guy have a better chance because of your pretentious indignation.
airportline@lemmy.ml
on 22 Feb 2024 17:57
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You implicitly said you would still vote for Biden if he âgrabbed a gun and started murdering Palestinians in the streets.â Iâd consider that to be giving Biden a free pass because although Iâll vote for Biden, I wouldnât if he started literally murdering people with his own hands, and I donât think you would either.
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 19:19
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Ah right I forget that when pseudo intellectuals are losing an argument you take hyberbolism as a literal point to poison the well.
The damage Biden is likely to cause is far less than the damage Trump already has and has proudly stated he would do. Even if Biden got considerably worse, he would more than likely still be better than Trump and would still get my vote.
Thereâs your boring translation of what I said that you canât easily attack for being hyperbolic.
airportline@lemmy.ml
on 22 Feb 2024 20:19
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I donât know why you didnât say that the first place. Before, you sounded like a deranged asshole.
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 21:59
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Hyperbole is used to better illustrate a point by using extremes. Notice how you say I sounded like a deranged asshole. Bit extreme but I understand that you mean I came off rude because instead of just calling me rude you went much further than what a reasonable person would say to make the point more clear.
You understand what it means to be hyperbolic, understood what I meant when I was being hyperbolic, but still forced me to deconstruct it and make it sound more meek than what I intended.
Now thatâs a bit rude, isnât it?
airportline@lemmy.ml
on 22 Feb 2024 22:52
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The hyperbole isnât what I care about.
Going up to people who are publicly considering withholding their vote over Bidenâs handling of the situation in Gaza, calling them irrational, and demanding they do something they believe is against their morals is âasshole behavior.â Itâs almost like youâre saying âthe issue you care enough about that your willing to risk a second Trump term doesnât matter to me.â This behavior is often referred to as âvote-scolding.â
I will probably still vote for Biden, but I understand why other wonât, and I donât think he should be evaluated only in comparison to Trump.
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 23:38
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He shouldnât only be evaluated by Trump except in the case of when you have two options - Biden or Trump. Then that is literally the time to evaluate him in comparison to Trump.
bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social
on 22 Feb 2024 16:53
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biden is flagrantly fascist, too, so maybe we should choose someone else, like cornel west or jill stein.
Iâm starting to turn around on this. I feel like Trump is corruptable, so some Saudi money can make him change his mind.
Biden is okay with genocide. I donât know how Trump can be much worse than what Biden is already doing.
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 23:40
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Pretty sure Trump has openly supported the IDF and said heâd do worse. Protecting the weak isnât in the GOP playbook and hopefully we wonât have to see if he can be bribed to change his mind.
Open support is better than what Biden is doing. Gas lighting.
I donât think itâs possible for Trump to do worse. What can be worse? Sending more money to Israel? Obstructing any ceasefire or mechanisms of international justice? Not recognizing Palestinians sovereignty? Bidens government is already doing these things. What does worse look like? I think what Biden is doing is as bad as it gets, he needs to be shown that he lost the left and we donât have to vote for him.
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 23 Feb 2024 11:28
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RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 22:11
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âWhats everyone so upset about? Weâve only killed 1% of the Palestine population. Weâre minimizing civilian deaths. Ignore the fact itâs overwhelmingly women and children though.â
livus@kbin.social
on 22 Feb 2024 01:09
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30,000 of 2 million is 1.5%.
That's halfway to the Bosnian genocide levels in less than a year.
dumpsterlid@lemmy.world
on 22 Feb 2024 17:20
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I donât know what makes my head spin more, the rate at which Israel is slaughtering Palestinians not just with the absolutely mental amount of bombs they are dropping on a tiny area but also with the cutting off of basic necessities and the associated starvation and deaths of despairâŚâŚ or the fact that US media, Joe Biden and US centrists just donât seem to have a âtoo farâ for Israel slaughtering Palestinians.
According to the UN it may be as much as 6 percent. Nobody has looked under the rubble yet.
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 18:49
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But Genocide Joe told me that he wouldnt allow it! Especially not now heâs trying to send israel 17 billion in bombs!
RealFknNito@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 22:13
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Genocide Blind Biden more like. Heâs not doing the genocide directly just completely fucking ignoring it. The pool of blood is going to reach his knees soon, I wonder how long he can ignore it before he drowns.
fastandcurious@lemmy.world
on 21 Feb 2024 23:52
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Huh, he is not ignoring anything, you canât just ignore 30000 deaths, he is actively funding it, just the normal brown and religious hate ya know, nothing new
threaded - newest
Definitely the most moral armyđ
But they text people before destroying their lives!?
âYour home and everything youâve worked for will be completely destroyed in 15 minutes, flee while you can. We are good guys btwâ
âHey guys pick up all your shit and move to this safezone. We wonât bomb it.â
âLol oops jkâ
They did not say that. The safe zone was solely meant to protect people from the bulk of the ground fighting in Gaza city. That's it. Don't make up nonsense.
Hahahahaha. Holy fuck. You think it sounds better that there are no safe zones for civilians? That anywhere they go within their state, surrounded at all sides, they can be bombed from the skies?
Fuck right off you IDF goon.
Serious question: Is this your first war? Wars usually don't have safe zones at all. Even a terrible safe zone is still better than nothing.
Serious question, you think this is a fucking war? You think both sides have equatable forces and that Israel is in significant danger of retaliation? Theyâve killed more hostages themselves than Hamas has. This is an extermination by a country with zero moral boundaries.
There are very rarely wars between similar sides. This war is not unusual for that at all. In fact, after WW2, most conflicts have been asymmetric. You are also omitting that Hamas have launched thousands of rockets against Israel since October 7, have tried countless times to breach border defenses and repeat the October 7 massacres. Do not belittle the threat that Hamas poses despite being nowhere near as powerful as the IDF. Hamas have no chance of winning a war, but they can inflict a great deal of damage.
According to whom? It's Hamas who reports how hostages have died and more than once, hostages that according to Hamas died due to bombing were in fact executed: "Forensic officials have said that autopsies of slain hostages who had been recovered found causes of death inconsistent with Hamas' account they had died in air strikes."
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/china-calls-gaza-peace-conference-hamas-disclose-fate-israeli-hostages-2024-01-15/
What do you actually know about Israel? Zero moral boundaries? What kind of farce of a fantasy have you created of this nation?
Hamas physically could not fight a war against Israel given
If any one of those four were true, it would be impossible for Hamas to fight a âwarâ, the fact that all four are true makes it abundantly clear any sense of a âwar between two militariesâ is a complete warping of reality. Israel does not want to conquer Gaza, it wants erase the human beings living there, this is much scarier than a war. MUCH scarier.
Lemmy is not the place for truths. People have decided what their truth looks like and itâs the jewsâ fault when that clashes with reality. This place is 100% pro âPalestineâ and other nonsense.
Name any other army that does this. Homes can be rebuilt, people can not. This is the least terrible option.
Yeah except they lied and decided the bomb everything anyway. They only do this for PR, not because they actually care about Palestinians.
Kind of a trick question since a lot of armies aren't routinely bombing civillian houses in the first place.
Hot take I know, but they could not destroy a whole region filled with civilians.
âEverywhere you go will be bombed as well LOLâ
Iâve had some ex-girlfriends like that
But donât forget to let centrist dems know youâll keep voting for them even if they support a genocide.
Oh boy get ready for the downvotes
What do you recommend to do as an alternative?
If I vote(solid blue here so not much practical point) Iâm doing a write in for president and any pro-israel candidates down ballot. I would not be upset by Biden losing to trump by the margin of votes for âstop the genocideâ in swing states. Preferably with a blue congress but whatever it takes to drive the point home for dems that they cannot cross this line and still have electoral viability.
I appreciate your conviction and morals, genuinely.
What youâre proposing is essentially sacrificing some form of democratic world order for full authoritarianism based on a single horrible event. Nuanced perspective may be more useful than absolutism in this scenario.
Hate to admit it, but, to me it seems we have been forced into a lesser of two evils scenario.
More poetically, a shit sandwich.
Also, please vote. Even in saturated areas your vote counts, especially in tight and artificially contested elections.
What an incredibly idiotic thing to do. Trump is hell-bent on destroying American democracy and giving both China and Russia all the Lebensraum that they want while enriching himself. And do look up his Israel policy, while you're at it.
The amount of suffering a Trump victory has a high chance of creating makes the war in Gaza look like a picnic.
So youâve got like 9 months to figure this out, but it really didnât work last time to call everyone who didnât like the centrist democrat option idiotic. Just history rhyming is all. Letâs try a different rhetoric?
âyou should shove your thumb up your ass in protest, itâll do so much good! Really stick it to the genocidal demsâ - đ¤Ą
Hey, stupid, the other choice is letting Trump win and even if Biden personally grabbed a gun and started murdering Palestinians in the streets heâd do less damage than Trump would.
Please remove your head from your ass or we will, yet again, let that flagrantly fascist psychopath take charge.
Damn thats crazy, maybe the centrist dems should have voted for a candidate in the primary that wouldnât abandon the critical âanti-genocideâ voting bloc. Iâll gladly take a term of trump if it means less shit dem candidates in the future.
Leftists and progressives have 0 leverage against centrist democrats if our votes are unconditional, if supporting a genocide isnât a line too far then nothing is.
Damn maybe voting democratic even as a centrist is closer to center than how far the right has gone. Damn maybe not voting because you donât like your choices just allows a candidate that has radically more damaging positions take the position of power.
Maybe not voting like a pretentious little bitch actually fucks over yourself and everyone who has similar principles to you because you want to feel morally superior.
Voting for Trump THE FIRST TIME was supposed to be the âweâll get less shitty demsâ how the fuck did that work out? Oh it didnât! Stop being so fucking stupid. This logic is so twisted and broken it could serve as the next Republican frontrunner.
Youâre not going to shame me into voting for the guy arming a genocide lol. If the centrist dems donât like losing votes from the left they should stop choosing unviable candidates in the primary.
But even ignoring any long term goals to drag the democrats left kicking and screaming Iâm just not going to vote for a guy that armed a genocide. Not holding my nose for that.
Itâs. A. Fucking. Genocide.
What if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue?
Oh thatâs a tough one. Maybe. Depends on the time of day Iâd reckon.
Lool and the people who say that shit about Biden think blue maga isnt a thing. Seems pretty apt when Biden voters say shit like that.
I, for one, donât think we should give our elected officials a free pass just because the other guy would be worse.
Who said anything about a free pass? Youâre making shit up now. I said we should vote for him, not get on our knees and suck. Critique him. Talk shit about him just as I have. But if you donât vote for him youâre absolutely letting the other guy have a better chance because of your pretentious indignation.
You implicitly said you would still vote for Biden if he âgrabbed a gun and started murdering Palestinians in the streets.â Iâd consider that to be giving Biden a free pass because although Iâll vote for Biden, I wouldnât if he started literally murdering people with his own hands, and I donât think you would either.
Ah right I forget that when pseudo intellectuals are losing an argument you take hyberbolism as a literal point to poison the well.
The damage Biden is likely to cause is far less than the damage Trump already has and has proudly stated he would do. Even if Biden got considerably worse, he would more than likely still be better than Trump and would still get my vote.
Thereâs your boring translation of what I said that you canât easily attack for being hyperbolic.
I donât know why you didnât say that the first place. Before, you sounded like a deranged asshole.
Hyperbole is used to better illustrate a point by using extremes. Notice how you say I sounded like a deranged asshole. Bit extreme but I understand that you mean I came off rude because instead of just calling me rude you went much further than what a reasonable person would say to make the point more clear.
You understand what it means to be hyperbolic, understood what I meant when I was being hyperbolic, but still forced me to deconstruct it and make it sound more meek than what I intended.
Now thatâs a bit rude, isnât it?
The hyperbole isnât what I care about.
Going up to people who are publicly considering withholding their vote over Bidenâs handling of the situation in Gaza, calling them irrational, and demanding they do something they believe is against their morals is âasshole behavior.â Itâs almost like youâre saying âthe issue you care enough about that your willing to risk a second Trump term doesnât matter to me.â This behavior is often referred to as âvote-scolding.â
I will probably still vote for Biden, but I understand why other wonât, and I donât think he should be evaluated only in comparison to Trump.
He shouldnât only be evaluated by Trump except in the case of when you have two options - Biden or Trump. Then that is literally the time to evaluate him in comparison to Trump.
biden is flagrantly fascist, too, so maybe we should choose someone else, like cornel west or jill stein.
Iâm starting to turn around on this. I feel like Trump is corruptable, so some Saudi money can make him change his mind.
Biden is okay with genocide. I donât know how Trump can be much worse than what Biden is already doing.
Pretty sure Trump has openly supported the IDF and said heâd do worse. Protecting the weak isnât in the GOP playbook and hopefully we wonât have to see if he can be bribed to change his mind.
Open support is better than what Biden is doing. Gas lighting.
I donât think itâs possible for Trump to do worse. What can be worse? Sending more money to Israel? Obstructing any ceasefire or mechanisms of international justice? Not recognizing Palestinians sovereignty? Bidens government is already doing these things. What does worse look like? I think what Biden is doing is as bad as it gets, he needs to be shown that he lost the left and we donât have to vote for him.
Alright youâve lost your fucking mind, out.
Yeah, the left is the problem here, cause republicans are totally anti genocide
newrepublic.com/âŚ/republican-congressman-andy-oglâŚ
oh waitâŚ
Meanwhile, the average elected Democratâs position:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/6941a8ad-74fd-461a-a0ee-9409a3d8cb3e.png">
I send you an actual news article, and all you can do is reply with a strawman cartoon, claiming itâs democrats?
You want to cite actual democratic politicians calling for more war or do you just want to live in your fantasy world?
Iâd say this is more akin to liberals. There are plenty of Zionist Dems who are fully on the genocide bandwagon.
Libs think itâs complicated and thereâs two sides to the story. Wake the fuck up, itâs genocide. Thereâs only one side to this.
pfft, remember all those countries telling Israel they better not bomb Rafah?
So anyway they started blastin'
âWhats everyone so upset about? Weâve only killed 1% of the Palestine population. Weâre minimizing civilian deaths. Ignore the fact itâs overwhelmingly women and children though.â
30,000 of 2 million is 1.5%.
That's halfway to the Bosnian genocide levels in less than a year.
I donât know what makes my head spin more, the rate at which Israel is slaughtering Palestinians not just with the absolutely mental amount of bombs they are dropping on a tiny area but also with the cutting off of basic necessities and the associated starvation and deaths of despairâŚâŚ or the fact that US media, Joe Biden and US centrists just donât seem to have a âtoo farâ for Israel slaughtering Palestinians.
According to the UN it may be as much as 6 percent. Nobody has looked under the rubble yet.
But Genocide Joe told me that he wouldnt allow it! Especially not now heâs trying to send israel 17 billion in bombs!
Genocide Blind Biden more like. Heâs not doing the genocide directly just completely fucking ignoring it. The pool of blood is going to reach his knees soon, I wonder how long he can ignore it before he drowns.
Huh, he is not ignoring anything, you canât just ignore 30000 deaths, he is actively funding it, just the normal brown and religious hate ya know, nothing new
Actively vetoing proposals for a ceasefire isn't ignoring.
I hope people would just learn to apologise to each other for their mistake instead of fighting to the death like cave mans