Tehran Accuses Ukraine of Active Participation in Iran War (www.kyivpost.com)
from Gsus4@mander.xyz to world@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 06:31
https://mander.xyz/post/49790375

#world

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osanna@lemmy.vg on 01 Apr 06:35 next collapse

why would the Ukraine attack another country while already at war with russia? Not like they’d want to fight two battles.

ms_lane@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 06:37 next collapse

the Ukraine

It’s just Ukraine.

‘The Ukraine’ is a Russian dogwhistle.

osanna@lemmy.vg on 01 Apr 06:39 next collapse

oh wow. I just did a bit of a skim of an article, and ukrainians themselves have said it’s just “ukraine”. My apologies to them :(

ms_lane@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 06:44 collapse

You’re good :)

meKevin@feddit.org on 01 Apr 07:22 collapse

Not necessarily true, the Ukraine is also acceptable in British English and other languages put a definite article in front of Ukraine, if you are translating to English as a second language

tal@lemmy.today on 01 Apr 07:42 next collapse

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine

Ukraine is one of a few English country names traditionally used with the definite article the.[3] Use of the article was standard before Ukrainian independence, but has decreased since the 1990s.[4][5][59] For example, the Associated Press dropped the article “the” on 3 December 1991.[5] Use of the definite article was criticised as suggesting a non-sovereign territory, much like “the Lebanon” referred to the region before its independence, or as one might refer to “the Midwest”, a region of the United States.[60][61][62][f]

In 1993, the Ukrainian government explicitly requested that, in linguistic agreement with countries and not regions,[65] the Russian preposition в, v, be used instead of на, na,[66] and in 2012, the Ukrainian embassy in London further stated that it is politically and grammatically incorrect to use a definite article with Ukraine.[3] Use of Ukraine without the definite article has since become commonplace in journalism and diplomacy (examples are the style guides of The Guardian[67] and The Times[68]). According to U.S. ambassador William Taylor, “The Ukraine” implies disregard for the country’s sovereignty.[69] The Ukrainian position is that the usage of “The Ukraine” is incorrect both grammatically and politically.[3]

OwOarchist@pawb.social on 01 Apr 07:51 collapse

To add another layer of absurdity to this linguistic debate, both of the native languages (Ukrainian/Russian) entirely lack definite articles such as “the”. Russian/Ukrainian doesn’t even have a word for “the”.

For example, when translating “A cat is on the table” to either Russian or Ukrainian (the two languages are pretty similar), you’d end up with what would translate back most literally as “Cat is on table.”

Including it or not only becomes an issue when translated into other languages.

einkorn@feddit.org on 01 Apr 06:51 next collapse

While it’s true that Ukraine is not attacking Iran, they have sent military personnel to assist defending against incoming Iranian attacks, so the US and Israel can continue their war in Iran instead of diverting more resources to protect GCC countries.

So I’d argue both statements are true: Ukraine is not attacking Iran, but they are supporting the US and Israel.

OwOarchist@pawb.social on 01 Apr 07:55 collapse

Given that Iran has been giving support for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, I’d say that’s fair.

einkorn@feddit.org on 01 Apr 07:59 collapse

My comment was not intended as judgment, but I think so too.

pilferjinx@piefed.social on 01 Apr 07:01 collapse

Ukraine has a fucking bone to pick with Iran. They have been supplying Russia with drones that are killing their people. They also have the most experience and expertise in dealing with them and want to leverage that for securing aid for their own war of survival.

Corporal_Punishment@feddit.uk on 01 Apr 06:50 next collapse

So those Shahed drones sent to Russia weren’t active participation then?

This is what fucks me off about the war Israel/USA vs Iran. Its all well and good being critical of America, what theyre doing is illegal, fucked up and moronic.

But don’t ever forget that Iran is a despotic, theocratical regime that only last month murdered thousands of its own civilians who tried to speak out.

Both sides in this war are shits.

psx_crab@lemmy.zip on 01 Apr 11:41 next collapse

That’s my opinion as well, rooting for any one party in this stupid war is idiotic at this point, basically two elephant fighting, and the victim is the mouse deer in the middle.

gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works on 01 Apr 12:01 next collapse

Yep. It’s bad people doing bad things for bad reasons to other bad people, and the plebs get caught in the meat grinder.

Same as it ever was, I guess.

[deleted] on 02 Apr 04:14 collapse
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ManixT@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 04:28 next collapse

Fuck Israel, but you need to educate yourself. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Iran_massacres

Prior to that, there have been countless cases of abuse and murder of protestors and even just uncovered women.

Fuck the Islamic government of Iran too.

Tolc@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 18:03 collapse

how does that effect the dynamics of this war? you are just using fascist talking point to justify imperialism

ManixT@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 18:54 collapse

A factual statement about civilian protestors being killed equals “fascist talking point” to you. You certainly have an interesting thought process. Maybe those people didn’t matter to you though.

This war is absolutely not justified and Israel and the US should face international condemnation and prosecution.

boonhet@sopuli.xyz on 02 Apr 06:49 collapse

Iran and Israel can both be bad at the same time.

Tolc@lemmy.world on 02 Apr 18:02 collapse

Comparing iran and israel is new low

Israel is literally settler colonial apartheid state

boonhet@sopuli.xyz on 02 Apr 18:13 collapse

One country is worse so the other can’t do anything wrong, gotcha, never heard that one before

Akasazh@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 08:16 next collapse

A case of pot meets kettle

gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works on 01 Apr 12:00 next collapse

In the context of this shitty situation, this is pretty much the absolute least controversial point of the whole thing. Iran supplied shaheds, as well as the design (which Russia proceeded to refine and mass produce and use against Russia). Iran has effectively been actively hostile towards Ukraine for years before Operation Epstein Feelings kicked off. What the actual fuck did they think was gonna happen?

To be clear: the Iran War is absolutely, categorically, pants-on-head stupid, and is an awful idea for a multitude of reasons from a multitude of domains. But this specific aspect of it is entirely uncontroversial.

NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io on 01 Apr 10:38 next collapse

Either what Ukraine is doing is not okay, or what Iran was/is doing is okay. It's really that simple.

leoj@piefed.social on 01 Apr 20:23 next collapse

I don’t know what Iran expected when they spent the last several years actively arming Russia, I wonder how differently the war would have gone without Shaheds terrorizing Ukrainian infrastructure and civilians…

vga@sopuli.xyz on 02 Apr 18:17 next collapse

So fucking what? Iran started it. And by “it” I mean helping Russia in their fucked up conquest trip into Ukraine.

I wouldn’t have blamed Ukraine if they had sent boots on the ground soldiers to Iran 2 years ago. Fuck Iran’s government with frozen holy water. I hate Trump almost as much but I sincerely hope he will succeed in this war and destroy those absolute fucking monsters.

perestroika@slrpnk.net on 02 Apr 18:42 next collapse

Yes, I have seen video of an Ukrainian interceptor blow up a Shahed strike drone above a city where people speak Arabic (and I’ve seen an US fighter plane fail the same task).

Ukraine needs missile defense. Missile defense is hard to come by and slow to develop.

However, Ukraine has the most advanced antidrone defense in the world, thanks to endless practise… in part due to Iran supplying Russia with blueprints for Shahed-136 production about 3 years ago (Russia has since surpassed Iran in both volume and skill, again due to endless practise against Ukraine).

Thus, Ukraine tries to bargain with Arab countries to get whatevever remains of available Patriot PAC-3 supplies. In return, it offers cheap interceptors, advise about how to use and make them, how to jam navigation and communication, how to use PAC-3 more efficiently, etc.

I am not aware of any Ukrainian attack on Iran.

Overall, Iran should have absolutely no reason to complain about Ukrainian involvement, since they have supplied Russia. And besides, Ukrainian involvement is not limitless - so far Ukrainians have been helping defend third countries (which made the mistake of hosting US bases, but regardless have reasons to defend their airspace).

Yes, it’s a mess. I hope it ends, as there is no positive outcome from continuing. Currently the best way of ending it seems like the US ceasing its campaign (not happening, a third aircraft carrier is moving towards the Middle East) and Arab countries negotiating with Iran to open the Strait of Hormuz for traffic. But all of this involves the orange person admitting a big mistake. He is currently doubling down instead.

Ukraine has its own interests (get missile defense supplies from anywhere) and will pursue them anyway. Can’t buy from China or South Korea, supply from Japan is tiny, supply from Germany is of the wrong type or not yet started up, supply from France and Italy is very limited - they will find any missile defense anywhere and try to see if it can be bought (while rushing to make their own based on the Soviet S-300).

Amberskin@europe.pub on 02 Apr 19:10 collapse

Says the country which provides Russia with a fuckton of drones used to bomb Ukrainian cities.