Trump says 'we don't have to be there for NATO'
(www.reuters.com)
from aeppelcyning@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 28 Mar 19:53
https://lemmy.ca/post/62499920
from aeppelcyning@lemmy.ca to world@lemmy.world on 28 Mar 19:53
https://lemmy.ca/post/62499920
#world
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A good opportunity to remind, that the US was the only country ever to invoke article 5 and Europeans (even Ukraine) came to help…
Apparently it was invoked on their behalf by another country/countries. But that’s sort of irrelevant. Other countries stood by America with their silly bullshit back then. The US owes all of those countries, I don’t care who invoked or volunteered.
Fuck Trump. And fuck Netanyahu. NATO is supposed to be a defensive alliance…not a tool of US / Israeli aggression.
Oh honey
Rude but true. But a lot of us are waking up from the fever dream we were fed. “We are the good guys! We are the best at everything because we work hard! That’s why we’re the richest, because we are the goodest and the most protecc”
And then you grow up and you learn we built an empire on slavery and exploitation, ourselves even being exploited, so that some dumbass greedy fucker can live in a gold and marble palace and fuck stolen children and throw their bastard newborns into Lake Michigan
It’s not a real country it’s all a pyramid scheme. We wouldn’t wake up until they went too far. It was always rotten underneath they just had enough wool over our eyes
Bullshit, USA has not been there to help NATO allies support Ukraine. And we didn’t shit ourselves like USA is doing.
USA did not help defend against an illegal attack on Europe from Russia. Yes Biden did help a little, but he also prevented Ukraine from attacking into Russia, which was completely insane, and now that Ukraine is attacking Russian oil exports, actually imposing the sanctions the allied countries promised, Russia is finally beginning to break under the economic pressure.
With friends like that, who needs enemies.
Now USA has engaged in their own illegal war, and for fucks sake, nobody but Israel and USA wanted that war, everybody warned against it, and SPECIFICALLY warned against the closure of the Hormuz Strait. I just watched a 9 month old video by the Youtube channel secular talk, where they stated with absolute certainty, that one of the first moves by Iran in case of an attack would be the closure of the Hormuz Strait.
So quite frankly just piss off USA, we already don’t expect you to do anything good anymore. Which is why all the rest of the NATO countries are scrambling to make new alliances. And as an example Canada and Japan have joined the EU SAFE program.
I think this is by the principle “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned”, and USA has been pissing on everybody for far to long, it’s not just Trump now, it was also his first presidency, and it was also Bush. And the same arrogance has permeated Democrats too.
For instance when Obama used illegal drone attacks into Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia, killing 800 civilians! And when he declared that they had found a balance for their intelligence services, and only had “illegal” surveillance of foreigners, incuding the governments of allied nations! Same legal gymnastics logic that is now used by ICE, to illegally detain people for weeks as guilty until proven innocent, without the usual rights of an arrested person.
The Pax Americana is dead, and the American global leadership is dead with it.
This is pure idiocy, but no more stupid than we expected. Obviously a call on article 5 assistance is way different, and we have a treaty that is like a Musketeer oath, which obligate all NATO members including USA to help if a NATO country is ATTACKED and invoke article 5. And the same if USA invokes article 5, which they actually did under Bush after 9/11 September 12, 2001. And all allies responded positively. Despite the attack wasn’t a military action, but a terrorist attack, which I don’t really see much sense invoking article 5 for?! But NATO is a defensive organization, there is nothing in the treaty that binds any country to participate in attacks, and definitely not participate in illegal wars on the offending side.
So what USA is doing in Iran, is in no way related to NATO, because USA is the illegal and unprovoked attacker together with Israel, and by definition Iran is merely defending themselves.
Trump is such an idiot, and the American population is despicable for letting him continue his atrocities.
Personally I prefer my government to stop all cooperation with USA, and we were among the absolute closest allies to USA, part of 7 eyes, being among the first 2 after the 5 core Anglo based countries.
We have allowed USA almost unrestricted access to our territory, including as many bases in Greenland as USA want. (With the consent of Greenland), yet they threatened to invade for security reasons.
USA has no real allies anymore, USA is now only interested in exploiting everybody as possible.
Despite that, I am sure that we will honor the NATO article 5, because we are a dependable country.
TRUMP 100% acts like a Russian asset, and the American population elected him, despite he clearly showed his treason during his first term, as a result we can’t trust USA anymore, even with a new government.
Edit:
Multiple edits, for instance mentioning the illegal drone attacks by Obama.
I get your frustration, but “helped a little” is a massive understatement for the contributions the US made for Ukraine immediately before and during the early phases of the war, when Biden was in office.
Trump is just awful by every measure though.
Helped a little is the net result of helping a lot with military equipment, only to afterwards tie the hands of Ukraine behind their back.
Biden was afraid of Putin, so he had policies that prevented Ukraine from actually winning.
But at least Biden tried, which is way better than Trump. But as can be seen on the battle field, no help from USA has actually been better for Ukraine, because USA then also don’t get to dictate limitations on Ukraine.
At this point I would feel safer without US as part of NATO and wouldn’t trust them not stab allies in the back at the first opportunity.
The problem is that the US is such an integral part of NATO that it can’t really function without it. The US is command and control for all NATO units and there really isn’t that capability anywhere else. It would take years, maybe even a decade of focused effort to change this. At this point probably best to start with some other treaties like what the scandanavians are doing and expand from there.
It has an important role, yes. But NATO has regional command and control structures in place. Right now they have some US officers in each of them. But this can be changed rather quickly. Dependence on US arms manufacturing is quickly going away as Europe ramps up its own production.
Nato isn’t stupid enough to expect him to be there for them. Like the old saying goes, “You can’t trust a Trump”.
That’s a source we can get behind! Sorry for the other removal!
Donald Trump is going to effectively dissolve NATO
Authoritarian States rejoice. They destroyed NATO via American gullibility and memecraft.
Well done, Mr Putin
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html
Nah. US might withdraw, but so far it seems like other countries are willing to step up, even if only in a reduced capacity.
by now NATO should kick out the US,
100%. The US is welcome to join again, after passing democracy reviews, and a proper evaluation of what it can contribute to the alliance. Instead of the natural reaction of begging for “US to reconsider abandonning alliance” burden must be placed on US and its eagerness to maintain/join the alliance.
Great points. Except, per your previous comments, you believe Ukraine started the Russian invasion of its own lands. That Russia deserves that land and it belongs to them.
So everything you say about NATO means nothing to anyone with a brain.
Really it’s not the US it’s Trump and his MAGA.
If only.
Obama did drone war crimes and began mass deportations. Biden financed a genocide and maintained Trump’s family separation and deportations. Unlike dems, or traditional Republicans MAGA are just open about their racism.
US is a racist imperialist project regardless of what stooge is chosen to sit at the top.
If my memory serves me right, obama dropped more bombs than trump has in the same stretch of time. Obama was BETTER than dumpy, but not by much. Obama at least tried to fix SOME problems. Dumpy is only making shit worse.
The US has always been involved in wars of some kind. The military-industrial complex probably needs them to siphon more money. All the recent presidents, except Trump, have been careful to maintain diplomacy and the international order. Trump and his henchmen have done their best to wreck system for everyone. I like to think that’s Trump, not the American people (maybe it’s MAGA too).
pretty much. trump is definitely gonna be remembered like he wants, I’m just not sure how many people he’s going to take out in the meantime.
how many Americans needlessly dies during Trump’s fumbling of COVID?
He is already one of the biggest killers of Americans in American history.
Would be nice if they ceremoniouslykick out each republican president from now on, for their past behavior, their party and their politics which are antithetical to the goals of NATO the UN and all US allies frankly.
Obama did so many illegal drone stikes and supported Saudis carpet bombing civilians in Yemen. Biden financed and allowed a genocide that’s continuing today.
it’s an American imperialism problem, not a Republican problem
Illegal how? Who has threatened a charge? What dem started a war in the past decades?
If the best you can say is that Dems went multiple terms with no wars and only used bombs at one point then you’re basically telling the whole internet you have zero capacity for scope or nuance.
We get it you don’t understand the difference between a bombing or a war, a forest for the trees. No one is cheering either on but your lack of nuance tells everyone how dense your take on politics comes off.
It’s obvious you don’t have the capacity to judge modern reality so honestly don’t worry about it. Just keep calling everyone GeNoCiDaL and stop participating. You obviously don’t recognize the world around you.
Clinton started wars in Haiti, Sudan / Afghanistan, Serbia / Kosovo
Obama started wars in Somalia, Libya, DR Congo / Uganda /CAR / S Sudan, Niger / Mali / Burkina Faso, Syria, Yemen, Libya (again).
Biden started a war in Yemen (again) and joined Israeli wars.
The interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo was a result of Serbian and Yugoslav genocide and ethnic cleansing of Albanian Kosovars. Once Serbian and Yugoslav forces retreated the war ended and led to Kosovo being protected to this day by a multinational force.
The doubts around legality arose because Russia and China refused to back a UN force so NATO were forced to intervene to prevent the genocide and stop the conflict spilling over into neighbouring countries.
So to say Clinton started a war, comparing it to some of the shit that has happened since and suggesting it was illegal is pretty disingenuous to be honest. NATO interventions undoubtedly prevented the untimely deaths of tens of thousands of people. And if anything the biggest advocates for the war were the UK. British troops led the ground invasion and are now responsible for the continued KFOR presence in the region.
“Wars”
careful, make sure you take vitamin supplements, there isn’t a lot of vitamins in a diet composed entirely on bootlicking corporate owned neoliberal war criminal’s boots
While those things are problems, they aren’t problems for NATO. NATO is literally a tool built by America for American imperial interests, so Trump throwing it in the trash has more to do with his own personal grievances than advancing American interests.
Dictators shouldn’t be allowed in NATO
Once the orange cancer is dead and the US goes through a LOT OF CHANGES, along with many guardrails placed, and only after an extensive review should the US be allowed to APPLY back in…
At minimum a constitution rewrite led by actual adults
But that’s not what the slave owners with wooden teeth would have wanted!
Guess the United States no longer needs access to bases in Europe and Australia.
Specially Greenland
Australia has nothing to do with NATO.
Australia is a five eyes member state and holds multiple US bases on its territory. It is also a Commonwealth state with the UK and Canada, both formal NATO members. And Australia just got royally screwed over its nuclear submarine purchase from the US by Trump.
Trump is such a fool
Can we now stop calling a USA president “the” leader of the free world?