JD Vance 'humiliated' by Iranian negotiators in stunning spectacle: 'Never looked weaker' (www.rawstory.com)
from stumu415@lemmy.zip to world@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 19:40
https://lemmy.zip/post/66563749

#world

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frtzngbllr@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 19:47 next collapse

TLDR

“LOLOL we made the US delegates wait and didnt shake hands, they so weak.”

Stupid Shits.

SheepHerder@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 20:00 next collapse

Well, it’s about perception isn’t it… America (Trump) is very sensitive about perception.

frtzngbllr@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 20:02 next collapse

The world should focus way more on like, dunno, science, facts and shit like dat, instead of stupid powergames.

SheepHerder@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 20:03 next collapse

Yes, I agree. They should. But they aren’t.

meco03211@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 20:09 collapse

It’s a fact the administration sees value in those power games.

CapuccinoCoretto@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 21:06 collapse

But they are idiots. A small part of me is happy any time they aren’t, but this is really just pointless signalling by morons, for morons, about morons.

myrmidex@belgae.social on 21 Jun 23:40 collapse

Electing politicians and expecting them not to play power games seems optimistic.

meco03211@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 00:26 collapse

Especially from idiots that think those power games are cool and what being in power is all about.

myrmidex@belgae.social on 22 Jun 13:39 collapse

I reckon such behavior is unavoidable the moment one sets foot on the lowest rung of any hierarchy.

baldingpudenda@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 21:15 collapse

While this regime is huge on optics, this shit has gone on for millennia. I remember reading that Obama was pissed his handlers kept telling him to wait for the repubs to call him and not for him to call them as it would show weakness or some BS. He was like idgaf we need to start negotiations! The handlers just told him that’s how DC politics worked and it would affect negotiations.

It’s also why trump used to jerk ppl in when he shook hands to “throw them off guard” and make him look stronger and more dominant. His dying ass doesn’t do it anymore cause he can barely stand or walk anywhere for more than 10 minutes. If he tried it now, the other person would just pull him and he’d fall.

tempest@lemmy.ca on 22 Jun 00:31 collapse

I mean he is old as shit but Trudeau made him look like a twit all the way back in his first term with that stupid handshake.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 20:07 collapse

BlueMAGA energy.

Israel is massacring hundreds of people a day across Lebanon, while the liberal media is fully fixated on whether JD Vance had to listen to On Hold music for a minute in Switzerland.

No coverage of why these negotiations are delayed or what the stakes are. It’s all just optics.

tempest@lemmy.ca on 22 Jun 00:32 collapse

Which is ‘the liberal media’ again?

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 00:34 collapse

The dirty secret that nobody wants to tell you is… in the West it’s liberals all the way down.

Some are just more scratched than others.

Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 09:13 collapse

I think you’re confusing the Anglo-Saxon countries and their Press with “the West”.

Outside places like the US, UK and Canada the whole “lets talk about Identity Politics instead of Wealth Inequality” “liberal” propaganda technique to disguise their authoritarian pro-Oligarch ways didn’t really took hold anywhere as much.

Granted, the rest of Europe is sliding towards the same increasing use of the tools of autoritarianism (most notably civil society surveillance), but that’s not led by “liberals”, that’s led by the traditional Right which at the moment is in power in most of Europe, was a large majority in power when the current EU Commission was chosen and is currently a majority in the EU Parliament.

In most of Europe “Liberal” techniques such as their performative “fight for equality” that very explicity excludes talk of Wealth Inequality are only common for fringe (supposedly) leftwing parties.

Even though - in my experience - the posh deceit discourse techniques have migrated from the US and UK towards other European countries, even the mainstream old center-left parties (which are now Neoliberal and well to the right of center) haven’t adopted the heavy identitarian discourse you see in their supposed equivalents in the US and UK.

Mind you, the mainstream “center”-“left” parties in most of Europe are sold out and as rotten as they come and mainly represent the rich, they’re just not playing the “liberal” theatrics that you see in the Anglo-Saxon sphere and do still once in a while do things which are actually for the many rather than for the few.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 14:04 collapse

Outside places like the US, UK and Canada the whole “lets talk about Identity Politics instead of Wealth Inequality” “liberal” propaganda technique to disguise their authoritarian pro-Oligarch ways didn’t really took hold anywhere as much.

I gotta disagree. This technique is baked into the entire Western political landscape. It’s particularly glaring in France and Germany, where neo-nazi police get to march around pushing the faces of poor immigrants, students, and socialist activists into the dirt in the name of “fighting antisemitism”. But it shows up throughout Latin America, the Philippines, and even West Africa.

State media sponsored tribalization, accusations of foreign infiltration of the opposition parties, and mass arrests of economic dissidents on ostensibly liberal “race neutral” grounds are common strategies globally, and for good reason. Even Russia plays this game when it suits them, with “De-Nazification” as a code word for busting the heads of any United Russia opposition group.

Even though - in my experience - the posh deceit discourse techniques have migrated from the US and UK towards other European countries, even the mainstream old center-left parties (which are now Neoliberal and well to the right of center) haven’t adopted the heavy identitarian discourse you see in their supposed equivalents in the US and UK.

I mean, you have straight-up breakaway regions in Spain, Italy, Greece, and - famously - Ukraine. Hell, nobody swings the identitarian cudgel harder than the liberal Zionists of Israel. Identity politics allows you to pretend at liberal politics while enabling a fascist state, by insisting the fascism is a bullwark against the opposition party’s Bigger Scarier Fascism. So you get guys like Olaf Schultz and Emanual Macron introducing whole new levels of state surveillance, crack downs on immigration, and gutting of educational institutions under the pastiche of some liberal cause (typically LGBTQ or philosemitism). And if you run over a bunch of queer folks and left-jews along the way? All the better.

Outside Europe, you often see the Drug War and violence against indigenous people spun as some kind of beneficent social welfare response or “tough love” effort to reduce poverty. But these guys love to code their behaviors in liberal terms, suggest there’s some kind of White Man’s Burden to step onin and “help”, and be greeted as liberators when you do.

Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 14:31 collapse

Those people doing all that you talk about are openly Rightwing parties, not “liberals” and they barelly use elements of “liberal” discourse.

The closest to it is the CDU/CSU in Germany and that’s pretty much only when it comes to anything Jewish - in that they push discriminatory treatment along Racial lines (in other words, Racial Discrimination) but only in favour of members of the Jewish Ethnicity and even there only for the Zionists (Jewish groups against the Zionist Genocide too are discriminated against) - not for the rest, and that’s the entire political landscape in Germany except Die Linke (and even then just part of Die Linke not all of it), not just the CDU/CSU. As far as I can tell the SPD aren’t really preaching the “liberal” credo beyond justifying differentiated treatment for the entire Jewish ethnicity using the “liberal” made up concept of Racial Victimhood (which would require some kind of shared Racial Hive Mind to be true, so is actually Racist as fuck).

The point I was making wasn’t that the West isn’t rife with Racism, it’s that the “moderate”/mainstream Left parties packaging reductive identitarian views of human beings and selling as “positive” some forms of Discrimination along those lines (not just the Racist lines, but all kinds of “identities”) isn’t anywhere as common in the rest of the West as it is in Anglo-Saxon countries. You see this even more clearly with other typical “liberal” identities other than Race, where even the Right in most of the West doesn’t really care either way - it’s places like the US and UK which rage about things like transsexuality, not places like Germany or France.

Absolutelly, the “moderate” Right in the West is rabidly Racist (hence their unwavering support for the White Supremacist State of Israel during a Genocide), but the “moderate”/mainstream “Left”-of-center parties aren’t usually “liberal” like in the UK, US and Canada.

Sadly at the moment the Right is in power in most of Europe, hence all the anti-immigration rethoric and support for Israel. A notable exception is Spain.

UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 16:00 collapse

Those people doing all that you talk about are openly Rightwing parties, not “liberals”

The German Greens and the Renaissance party are center-left and center (relatively speaking for their respective countries). They are explicitly liberal. The same can be said of the the various Latin American and and East Asian parties. Very regularly right in the center of their national overton windows and openly in favor of collaborating with neighboring liberal governments on their policies.

The point I was making wasn’t that the West isn’t rife with Racism, it’s that the “moderate”/mainstream Left parties packaging reductive identitarian views of human beings and selling as “positive” some forms of Discrimination along those lines (not just the Racist lines, but all kinds of “identities”) isn’t anywhere as common in the rest of the West

The ethnic lines vary. But the general disdain for immigrants, foreign religions, and foreign languages persist.

eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 21 Jun 20:21 next collapse

Ooh ape body language dominance analysis.

Sadly no T-posing though.

robomuffin79@lemmy.world on 21 Jun 20:23 next collapse

Important to remember that Amjad Taha is a POS warmonger and pro-Israel/US whore. He will tweet anything to please his masters across the sea. The Emiratis are in bed with Israel and see any deal as bad for them as it is for Israel.

bobbyfiend@retrolemmy.com on 22 Jun 00:26 next collapse

IDK if any of this is what it looks like, but it’s in the context of complete diplomatic incompetence for a decade. None of these people know what they are doing on the international stage. They made their careers as US mob bosses and bullies pretending to be politicians, and don’t understand anything beyond that scope. When Trump could no longer pull world leaders off balance with stupid handshake tricks, he looked like an idiot for a while. Whenever he or his lackeys encounter someone who can’t be bribed, intimidated, or extorted they sputter like Elmer Fudd because they have no other tools.

tempest@lemmy.ca on 22 Jun 00:29 next collapse

Yes… A while… A very long while

And yet he was voted in again.

4am@lemmy.zip on 22 Jun 01:31 next collapse

I’m starting to think that he wasn’t but we just didnt collect enough evidence at the time so now we will never know

relativelyrobin@mander.xyz on 22 Jun 13:34 collapse

That’s the insidious side of them accusing the 2020 of being stolen so adamantly. You can’t turn around and do the same for 2024 without walking straight into copying the same behavior (albeit genuine rather than projection). This takes away a lot of strength from the argument, normalizes and waters down stolen election drama.

I think there is evidence, but it’s not made a big deal of. The media conglomerates are complicit. Their investors want the same corpocracy late stage capitalism that the tech bros and grifters do. Collectively, they have taken so much wealth and control over our system that it’s hard to even market one particular crime in all the deluge.

They didn’t even sentence him for felonies he was convicted of. It’s like they just collectively decided not to pursue any legal action against the president.

kreskin@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 09:08 collapse

Maybe if the dems had bothered to make a platform and run someone competent we wouldnt be in this mess. But they didnt.

Mertn33@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 12:42 collapse

That is the first time I here about the Dems for about the length of the current war. Where the fuck are they? What are their policies? What is their strategy? They need to activate themselves and pull America out of this Trumpian disaster

relativelyrobin@mander.xyz on 22 Jun 13:35 collapse

Infighting and bitching about each other and blaming a straw man for not stepping up instead of stepping up.

Go run for office. Go join a campaign. Go donate or volunteer. They are like you. Act.

Mertn33@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 13:49 collapse

I am not an American citizen, neither am I in America. I can help with IT skills if you know where I can direct them.

normanwall@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 02:52 next collapse

Trump is used to negotiating from a position of power because he was born rich and would use lawyers to do his dirty work. He’s never had to learn how to actually negotiate so he’s trying to use threats and blunt force.

He can’t buy the pot this time

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 22 Jun 16:54 collapse

That’s not negotiating, that’s extortion. And he’s not even good at that.

takeda@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 17:48 collapse

I mean look at US delegation.

  • Kushner - son in law of trump, a real estate guy
  • Witkoff - a stupidest person in any room he enters
  • Vance - zero experience in any negotiations
  • then the Pakistani proxy which supposed to negotiate on our behalf, but because he is proxy it is like playing game of telephone
PedroMaldonado@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 02:15 next collapse

Buddy…Vance is the definition of Fecklessness. We all know it. One day, donny boy will be gone and we’re gonna cheer for it.

ayyy@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 04:37 next collapse

But was he slammed?

Clutter@sh.itjust.works on 22 Jun 10:47 collapse

Or DESTROYED?

remon@ani.social on 22 Jun 10:53 collapse

BLASTED!

Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 13:29 collapse

SHREDDED

NotSafeForWorld@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 22 Jun 16:53 collapse

AIR-FRIED

Trilogy3452@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 05:51 next collapse

Except for Iran’s reps not shaking hands I didn’t really understand what was so humiliating. Doesn’t seem to mention the points that “made it clear who’s desperate and who’s not”

JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 11:45 next collapse

Hes got a small penis, is why.

luciferofastora@feddit.org on 22 Jun 12:41 collapse

Without knowing what else went down, a lot of diplomacy hinges on otherwise minor gestures to signal intent. Stuff like the head of state summoning the ambassador to receive an admonishment on behalf of their country isn’t technically a big deal, but it’s a safe, nonthreatening way to express discontent. It doesn’t threaten sanctions or worse, but it does demand the other take it seriously.

To extend your hand is a token of trust and good faith, or just basic respect for the other party. Snubbing it is then an act of disrespect, a breach of protocol that could end up sabotaging negotiations. Why should I trust you to negotiate in good faith, if you refuse even the most basic gesture of good faith?

But Iran clearly isn’t worried whether the US will take offence or trust them. That is the part that makes it clear who’s desperate: Iran believes and signals that belief that the US has no choice but to trust them. They can afford to be rude because the US has no effective recourse. The negotiations are going to happen on Iran’s terms, because the US needs them to happen at all.

It’s kind of a bully move, but Iran can’t exactly afford to choose the moral high ground and the US doesn’t have a leg to stand on to complain about bully moves either.

Edit to add, upon reading the article: The same logic applies to making the US delegation wait. It’s not polite, but the US needs the negotiations and accordingly their delegation will grit their teeth and wait rather than making their indignation clear by walking out.

Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone on 22 Jun 05:58 next collapse

I heard the US never said thank you for Iran allowing the straight to be open again so they closed it.

MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip on 22 Jun 10:26 next collapse

Who comes first, who talks last, who has the fragiler ego, who the smaller dick. And this is why we should abolish the practice of personal talks in politics. It’s not about you, dumbfucks, but the people you represent.

VampirePenguin@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 10:40 next collapse

We should honeypot all power seeking people and trap them in a matrix like vr.

Blackmist@feddit.uk on 22 Jun 12:41 next collapse

Maybe we already have, and we’re the AI agents designed to fool them into thinking they’re still in the real world.

Hope the real us are doing well somewhere.

bampop@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 12:48 collapse

Not the VR part, but what if you could construct a scenario where all the power seeking people end up in what they think is a bunker where they are controlling everything, but actually it’s one of many prison cells where the scenario dictates you have to stay inside or lose your grip on power. You can only walk out if you decide you don’t want to rule the world. A prison without locks or guards.

CyroSignal@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 11:54 next collapse

JD is a clown…

YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today on 22 Jun 14:30 collapse

Hey now, clowns play an important role in society! They provide levity and comedic reprieve. Don’t you insult them by comparing them to someone as useful as a hammer lubricant.

melsaskca@lemmy.ca on 22 Jun 11:55 next collapse

He never looked powerful to begin with. He looked weak going in. It’s a good thing trump’s complicit pal and his daughter’s husband were there.

UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca on 22 Jun 12:07 collapse

Would you like to have the power to do that? prepares to write down a name on a pad

BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today on 22 Jun 12:13 next collapse

MAGAs are such pathetic losers, and literally EVERYBODY in the entire world can see it. And worse, even MAGA knows it, and they try to cover it with bullying, threats, and intimidation, which have long stopped working on anyone but their own loser following.

Their legacy as corrupt, treasonous, racist, misogynist pedophiles is fully forged, and there will be no redemption, reevaluation, or forgiveness.

fisch@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 12:56 next collapse

They had their chance to overthrow the republic in Q1 and they threw it because the moderate Republicans got scared and some of those checks and balances kicked in (as per recent NYT reporting). Now they’re just fumbling. Should have dealt the death blow to American democracy when they had the chance.

P1k1e@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 13:46 collapse

You make it sound like wishful thinking

YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today on 22 Jun 14:27 collapse

You assume these fuckers self reflect! Lol!

mech@feddit.org on 22 Jun 13:03 next collapse

The Trump administration has absolutely no clue about diplomacy.
They keep shouting ALL IN with 2 and 7 in hand, at a chess tournament.

YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today on 22 Jun 14:26 collapse

They got pocket fuckits!

Thebeardedsinglemalt@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 13:31 next collapse

We all know he’s gonna go home and exert power to make himself feel big again…and then he’ll have to go shopping for new furniture afterwards

MonkeMischief@lemmy.today on 22 Jun 14:49 collapse

He really puts the “lay” in “You’ve been such a Lay-Z-Boy.”

SnarkoPolo@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 14:01 next collapse

Fascists are cucks. Their whole world is about power and hierarchy, so they become naturally subservient in the presence of anyone who pounds his chest just a little more.

W3dd1e@lemmy.zip on 22 Jun 14:13 next collapse

Is it just me or does Vance’s beard always look glued on?

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 22 Jun 16:47 collapse

Vance’s beard

Usha? What do you mean “glued on”?

Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 14:59 next collapse

I gotta say. This is the most shallow BS I have read. How about we focus on actual progress instead of focusing on the pre fight weight check BS shinnanigans.
Pretty sure vance will lose on the negotiations too. And that is what really matters. Let’s have some substance to the well deserved bashing.

Actionschnils@feddit.org on 22 Jun 15:15 collapse

This is part of the results. The “honor” of a state is a soft power resource, that is relevant to a lot of other states and will influence their behavior towards it.

Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 15:58 collapse

I call BS. I don’t think anyone is saying… we better give the, what they want. They show up late.
They look at the agreements that come out of the negotiations.

phutatorius@lemmy.zip on 22 Jun 16:43 next collapse

I’m just imagining the Iranian negotiators bombarding Bowman with an incessant barrage of hockey-player trash talk, until he curls up in a ball and cries. “I’ve seen your mother’s pussy. It’s you, ya loser. Does your mouth bleed once a month?”

Then playing Plastic Bertrand in his hotel room, especially the part with “I am the king of the divan.”

But as @Modern_medicine_isnt says, let’s see how it plays out. My personal view is that Vance can’t even fart without asking Orangeman’s permission, adheres to a morally bankrupt, imbecilic ideology, and even if he were free to act, which he isn’t, he’s too spineless to actually decide anything.

Fmstrat@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 17:09 next collapse

This entire thing is because Vance showed up forst and the other guy didn’t shake hands.

This article is drivel.

DarkFuture@lemmy.world on 22 Jun 17:54 next collapse

I wish Trump supporters were smart enough to realize how stupid they are.

But I guess that’s the thing about being unbelievably stupid.

betanumerus@lemmy.ca on 22 Jun 18:03 collapse

That childish administration is getting tossed around everywhere they go. Some say their goal is not to serve their country but to distract away from a criminal ring, which would explain why they’re so out of touch.